Ecumenism

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brakelite

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There is a cry going forth from mainstream Christianity that the current disunity within Christendom needs to be addressed, and that uniting on those points upon which all can agree must be pursued with vigor in order to keep the Christian message alive and relevant to a post-modern society. And we are all fully aware as to who is leading the charge. Whilst it is indeed true that the number of Christian denominations, and independent churches,are many, and increasing exponentially, ‘unity’ at all costs, particularly at the cost of truth, must be avoided by any and all means.

The Bible tells us (for those who claim the name of Christ and still believe in the Bible) that the time is coming that the only denominations at the time of the end will be those who have accepted the mark of the beast and are worshiping according to the government dictates. They are the daughters of the Mother, Babylon the Great. Because they have left the truth, they have become harlots in the same character as their mother from whom they originally came. This will leave only a small minority, a united (in Christ) movement who resist the majority traditions and pressures of the NWO. If they were at any stage a denomination, it has long been annulled by government decree due to their practicing their religion according to the Bible, and the Bible only. Teaching the true gospel, they will be accused of hate speech, hated of all nations for Christ’s sake, (Matt.10:22; 24:9.) and be considered the execration of society. Accused of being the cause of God’s judgments falling upon the earth, they will in the end be sentenced to death. This is they who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus.(Revel. 12:17; 14:12) They are the only ones patiently waiting for Christ’s coming. And the only ones to be translated when He appears in glory. The majority have long given up hope of the second coming; the Bible is no longer seen as relevant to modern society, its history shrouded even now in doubt and skepticism; and doctrine no longer viewed as necessary to salvation, because today there are as many roads that lead to heaven as there are that lead to Rome.
The minority believers are united in the cause for truth, in the preaching of truth in the power of the Holy Spirit, in the living of truth by their living faith in the grace of God. One with Jesus and the Father, empowered by the Spirit of God, they love one another and their chief priority in life is to see as many people as possible come out of Babylon into a saving relationship with Christ.
They have a Truth they know is not to be compromised, and with courage and selfless love for lost souls, they repudiate everything not in harmony with that Truth.
Soon “let us be united” will be the rallying cry of the majority. And unite they will, but under a banner of error and deception.
Beware of false calls to unity. Have a look at Matthew 24:4-9. Note that up to the first part of verse 7, the world is in utter disarray. Wars and rumors of wars, nation against nation, kingdom against kingdom. This has been the state of this world since Cain slew Abel. Conflict has been the one constant thread that is woven throughout human history. But note that in verse 9 there is a major shift. A dramatic shift. We see the nations of the world united for the very first time…but for what cause?....they are united against the church!

But let us pause a little and also consider Revelation 13:3…all the world wondered after the beast…. 8: and all that dwell upon the earth shall worship.…14: and deceiveth them that dwell upon the earth…The whole world is going to be deceived into false worship. This will not be Islam. Babylon the Great is a symbol of the Roman Catholic Church, it is NOT Islam. Although there is a likelihood, short of a major miracle, that Islam will be joined to Babylon...as will all other non-Christian faiths. The world will be deceived into worshiping according to Roman tradition; or at least will be honoring those essential points that Rome will consider sufficient for acceptance; they will believe they are worshiping according to the truth, for they are deceived. Thus the final great conflict of the ages is not between atheism and theism, but will be between two brothers, one worshiping according to truth and revelation, the other according to tradition and occultist and demonic new age philosophy. An end time repeat of Cain and Abel. What evils and wickedness that permeated religious intolerance during the 1ooo odd years of papal dominion in Europe during the dark ages will be repeated on a global scale with as much ardor, fanaticism, and violence as the worst of the inquisitions of the past.

Our allegiances in those days will not about denominations but about truth and obedience to the commandments of God as opposed to the commandments of men.

The coming separation of Christianity under the aegis of the false prophet is the separation we ought to be more concerned about. For then there will be only two sides. How do you know you wont be deceived along with the rest of the world? How do you know you aren’t already deceived and ripe picking for the coming NWO? What is it about your beliefs and faith that makes you different from the vast majority of Christianity who will take the side of the Antichrist and worship the beast and his image?

Jesus’ prayer in John 17 is a prayer for unity…unity of the same fashion as Jesus has with His Father…a unity of the church with Christ. It is as we unite with Jesus that we become united with one another. As two converging lines meet at the one point, so also will individual members of the church unite and converge as they meet with Jesus.
There is within Christendom a powerful belief that there will soon be a rise of a world dictator (the Antichrist) who outlaws the Christian religion and forces the world into idolatry with himself as the idol. I have come to a rather different conclusion. The world, currently divided by denominational, ethnic, racial, religious, political and secular beliefs, is forced, or rather deceived, to unite in a form of worship to the beast. This is taking place right now. So rather than religion being outlawed, it is in fact soon to be promoted but in a specific direction dictated by the powers of government in union with church authorities. This dictate will encompass the majority. The vast majority. It will be a remnant, a small minority that clings to true worship.
What divides the two parties, the true and the false, will be determined by the word of God. Both sides believe they have the truth. Both sides believe they are worshiping the true God, even Jesus. Both sides believe they are going to heaven, and the other hell. Both sides believe they are ‘Christian’.
What we all need to ask ourselves is what is it about your current faith that convinces you that it is Truth and not the anti-christ counterfeit that even today is flooding our churches, seminaries, and bible colleges?….and will soon be foisted upon an unsuspecting world and church and lead billions to hell?
Unity is in our relationship: as we focus on our relationship with Jesus, sharing His love and fostering relationships with others, non-essentials will fall away and all we will be left with are those vital truths that secure our salvation…the love of God as revealed at Calvary. Sadly, prophetic revelation informs us that the relationship the majority believe they have is in fact a sham, a deception based on false emotion and false doctrinal foundations.
One further point. The same crisis that unites the world against he church will have the powerful effect of uniting the church for Christ. Under persecution the latter rain will fall, the gospel will go into all the world and then Jesus shall come.

But all that is yet future. Where we are now, immediately prior to the mark of the beast, is where our focus should be. Now is the time to search our own hearts to confirm we are truly in the faith.
 
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Helen

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the time is coming that the only denominations at the time of the end will be those who have accepted the mark of the beast and are worshiping according to the government dictates

Shades of China 70 yrs ago...and the new leader, in for life now...cannot be removed. ...Has declared he is bring back the old anti-Christian actions...they are already in play. ( State approved Church only )
But, we know full well that this only caused the Underground Church to grow and flourish ...so it will again. Sadly it will mean many christian will go to prison as before.
But....it is coming "to a church near you.." ..they have started the ball rolling already.

Stay strong.

This will divide the man from the boys.....
Not like we didn't know that it was coming!
 
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Truth

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There is a cry going forth from mainstream Christianity that the current disunity within Christendom needs to be addressed, and that uniting on those points upon which all can agree must be pursued with vigor in order to keep the Christian message alive and relevant to a post-modern society. And we are all fully aware as to who is leading the charge. Whilst it is indeed true that the number of Christian denominations, and independent churches,are many, and increasing exponentially, ‘unity’ at all costs, particularly at the cost of truth, must be avoided by any and all means.

The Bible tells us (for those who claim the name of Christ and still believe in the Bible) that the time is coming that the only denominations at the time of the end will be those who have accepted the mark of the beast and are worshiping according to the government dictates. They are the daughters of the Mother, Babylon the Great. Because they have left the truth, they have become harlots in the same character as their mother from whom they originally came. This will leave only a small minority, a united (in Christ) movement who resist the majority traditions and pressures of the NWO. If they were at any stage a denomination, it has long been annulled by government decree due to their practicing their religion according to the Bible, and the Bible only. Teaching the true gospel, they will be accused of hate speech, hated of all nations for Christ’s sake, (Matt.10:22; 24:9.) and be considered the execration of society. Accused of being the cause of God’s judgments falling upon the earth, they will in the end be sentenced to death. This is they who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus.(Revel. 12:17; 14:12) They are the only ones patiently waiting for Christ’s coming. And the only ones to be translated when He appears in glory. The majority have long given up hope of the second coming; the Bible is no longer seen as relevant to modern society, its history shrouded even now in doubt and skepticism; and doctrine no longer viewed as necessary to salvation, because today there are as many roads that lead to heaven as there are that lead to Rome.
The minority believers are united in the cause for truth, in the preaching of truth in the power of the Holy Spirit, in the living of truth by their living faith in the grace of God. One with Jesus and the Father, empowered by the Spirit of God, they love one another and their chief priority in life is to see as many people as possible come out of Babylon into a saving relationship with Christ.
They have a Truth they know is not to be compromised, and with courage and selfless love for lost souls, they repudiate everything not in harmony with that Truth.
Soon “let us be united” will be the rallying cry of the majority. And unite they will, but under a banner of error and deception.
Beware of false calls to unity. Have a look at Matthew 24:4-9. Note that up to the first part of verse 7, the world is in utter disarray. Wars and rumors of wars, nation against nation, kingdom against kingdom. This has been the state of this world since Cain slew Abel. Conflict has been the one constant thread that is woven throughout human history. But note that in verse 9 there is a major shift. A dramatic shift. We see the nations of the world united for the very first time…but for what cause?....they are united against the church!

But let us pause a little and also consider Revelation 13:3…all the world wondered after the beast…. 8: and all that dwell upon the earth shall worship.…14: and deceiveth them that dwell upon the earth…The whole world is going to be deceived into false worship. This will not be Islam. Babylon the Great is a symbol of the Roman Catholic Church, it is NOT Islam. Although there is a likelihood, short of a major miracle, that Islam will be joined to Babylon...as will all other non-Christian faiths. The world will be deceived into worshiping according to Roman tradition; or at least will be honoring those essential points that Rome will consider sufficient for acceptance; they will believe they are worshiping according to the truth, for they are deceived. Thus the final great conflict of the ages is not between atheism and theism, but will be between two brothers, one worshiping according to truth and revelation, the other according to tradition and occultist and demonic new age philosophy. An end time repeat of Cain and Abel. What evils and wickedness that permeated religious intolerance during the 1ooo odd years of papal dominion in Europe during the dark ages will be repeated on a global scale with as much ardor, fanaticism, and violence as the worst of the inquisitions of the past.

Our allegiances in those days will not about denominations but about truth and obedience to the commandments of God as opposed to the commandments of men.

The coming separation of Christianity under the aegis of the false prophet is the separation we ought to be more concerned about. For then there will be only two sides. How do you know you wont be deceived along with the rest of the world? How do you know you aren’t already deceived and ripe picking for the coming NWO? What is it about your beliefs and faith that makes you different from the vast majority of Christianity who will take the side of the Antichrist and worship the beast and his image?

Jesus’ prayer in John 17 is a prayer for unity…unity of the same fashion as Jesus has with His Father…a unity of the church with Christ. It is as we unite with Jesus that we become united with one another. As two converging lines meet at the one point, so also will individual members of the church unite and converge as they meet with Jesus.
There is within Christendom a powerful belief that there will soon be a rise of a world dictator (the Antichrist) who outlaws the Christian religion and forces the world into idolatry with himself as the idol. I have come to a rather different conclusion. The world, currently divided by denominational, ethnic, racial, religious, political and secular beliefs, is forced, or rather deceived, to unite in a form of worship to the beast. This is taking place right now. So rather than religion being outlawed, it is in fact soon to be promoted but in a specific direction dictated by the powers of government in union with church authorities. This dictate will encompass the majority. The vast majority. It will be a remnant, a small minority that clings to true worship.
What divides the two parties, the true and the false, will be determined by the word of God. Both sides believe they have the truth. Both sides believe they are worshiping the true God, even Jesus. Both sides believe they are going to heaven, and the other hell. Both sides believe they are ‘Christian’.
What we all need to ask ourselves is what is it about your current faith that convinces you that it is Truth and not the anti-christ counterfeit that even today is flooding our churches, seminaries, and bible colleges?….and will soon be foisted upon an unsuspecting world and church and lead billions to hell?
Unity is in our relationship: as we focus on our relationship with Jesus, sharing His love and fostering relationships with others, non-essentials will fall away and all we will be left with are those vital truths that secure our salvation…the love of God as revealed at Calvary. Sadly, prophetic revelation informs us that the relationship the majority believe they have is in fact a sham, a deception based on false emotion and false doctrinal foundations.
One further point. The same crisis that unites the world against he church will have the powerful effect of uniting the church for Christ. Under persecution the latter rain will fall, the gospel will go into all the world and then Jesus shall come.

But all that is yet future. Where we are now, immediately prior to the mark of the beast, is where our focus should be. Now is the time to search our own hearts to confirm we are truly in the faith.

I rarely read such long intro's, But it was well worth the read. I believe that your OP was very accurate as to what will come to light!
We as Believer's truly need to search out these so called Tradition's that we, not I, but they that practice these Tradition's search what they meant, where they come from. because they are the very Tradition's that got Israel Exiled from the Land! Tradition's are handed down from one generation to the next, we have been deceived by the fact that these Tradition's have been around for so long, So they Must be True, everyone except's them, even the secular people. All I can say is Pray for the Love Of The Truth, Hunger and Thirst for the Truth.
 
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Windmillcharge

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There is a cry going forth from mainstream Christianity that the current disunity within Christendom needs to be addressed, and that uniting on those points upon which all can agree must be pursued with vigor in order to keep the Christian message alive and relevant to a post-modern society.

Is there such a call?
Is it a crime for Christians to be in agreement on many points of doctrine?

Where Christians are in agreement doctrinaly they can and should co-operate. This can be done without forming a united church organisation.

Let me illistrate. In the education district I live in there are large number of state run schools as well as private schools. A total of twelve churches co operate to fund two Christian teachers who work in as many schools as they can get permision to take. ( they do religious instruction lesson, cityzen ship lessons, philosphy lessons as well as assembles and run break and after school Christian clubs.)
These Churches have been doing this for twenty years.

Christians don't have to belong to the same church organisation, but they shouild welcome those who they have common ground, even if there are areas of disagreement.

As for keeping Christianity alive and relevent. That is up to us in knowing what and why we believe and gossiping about it. That and challenging our preachers to be relevent.
 
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Windmillcharge

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Preachers are not supposed to be "relevant" they are supposed to preach teh truth.
The truth is far more than just preaching the gospel.
There is Christian living, responding to what ever events have hit the headlines from a Christian view point, answering the challenges that atheists make.

These and more are part of preaching the truth of Christianity.

If all your preacher does is preach the gospel challenge him why he isn't preaching sermons that are relevent to daily life.
 

mjrhealth

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If all your preacher does is preach the gospel challenge him why he isn't preaching sermons that are relevent to daily life.
He is supoosed to preach te htruth, and I di=ont belong to any religion I like some belong to Christ alone, paid for with a price, cant have anything to do with men and his religions.
 

Windmillcharge

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He is supoosed to preach te htruth, and I di=ont belong to any religion I like some belong to Christ alone, paid for with a price, cant have anything to do with men and his religions.

Clarify for me.
What do you understand to be the truth that should only be preached?
 

mjrhealth

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Clarify for me.
What do you understand to be the truth that should only be preached?
Preachers are supposed to preach the "Gospel of Jesus Christ" they are suppose to prepare "Christians" for there walk with Christ. if pastors where truly from God there wou7ld be no one in church because they would all be walking with Jesus, as it says in revelation

Rev_18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

MEns religion in all the harlot church.
 

Windmillcharge

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Preachers are supposed to preach the "Gospel of Jesus Christ" they are suppose to prepare "Christians" for there walk with Christ. if pastors where truly from God there wou7ld be no one in church because they would all be walking with Jesus, as it says in revelation

Rev_18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

MEns religion in all the harlot church.
So what is 'The Church'?
Is there a 'Church'?

I agree preachers are to prepare Christians to be Christians and that often they are not doing this.

But your reasoning is faulty.
If Christians are in a church where they are being taught the gospel and how to live as Christians etc.
Then they are not in a harlot church.
Your quote applies to those in a church teaching false doctrine.

Christianity is a family and families do not split up but combine and unite to work and worship together.
 

mjrhealth

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Christianity is a family and families do not split up but combine and unite to work and worship together.
There is only one Bride, there is only one church and man was never given permission to build it,

Act 7:46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.
Act 7:47 But Solomon built him an house.
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

nothings changed
 

Windmillcharge

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There is only one Bride, there is only one church and man was never given permission to build it,
Interesting you quote speeches that tell history as instruction for how we are to act.
You forget that Paul and the other apostles gather Christians into 'churches', that Paul put men in charge of these 'churches' and encouraged them to help other 'churches'.
as matt 28 says:-
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

How are they to be taught? Is gathering believers together to worship and to learn, to encourage one another and be encouraged wrong?

Most of the bible both old and new is addressed to either all Israel or to groups of believers.
The example of the NT is of believers gathered into groups, meeting regularly together.

Let me ask you how should Christian worship God?
Should they meet together?

Read my post 4. 12 twelve churches have put Christian teachers into secular schools teaching children who do not have any Christian influence in there lives and this has been going on for over 20 years. Are we wrong to do this?
Look at missionary organisations. Should they exist?
How should missionaries be sent to where they are needed?
 

mjrhealth

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into 'churches', that Paul put men in charge of these 'churches' a
Not buildings as teh word "church" incorrect proclaims, they where a gathering from a town, not some man made denomination, and yet they screwed up. what was it Jesus told them not to do.

Luk 22:25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
Luk 22:26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

and what did they do, they created a structure completely against His will, see how they are just like us. We are supposed to be LEd by te hSpirirt not follow after men, which men prefer to do,
 
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mjrhealth

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Read my post 4. 12 twelve churches have put Christian teachers into secular schools teaching children who do not have any Christian influence in there lives and this has been going on for over 20 years. Are we wrong to do this?
Look at missionary organisations. Should they exist?
How should missionaries be sent to where they are needed?
If God didnt send them they shouldnt be going like this,

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

It is God that send not men, there is no reward for "our works" we are as He put it

Luk 17:7 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
Luk 17:8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
Luk 17:9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
Luk 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

we do what we need to do because that is what He expects us to do. Minitsry is a calling not a job as most seem to make it than wonder why they fall on there faces.
 

Windmillcharge

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If God didnt send them they shouldnt be going like this,
Minitsry is a calling not a job

How do you know whether they haven't been sent by God?

Clearly you have not read the epistles.
Paul complains several times about not using his right to be rewarded by the churches he served and about other apostles using that same right.
 

tabletalk

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Interesting you quote speeches that tell history as instruction for how we are to act.
You forget that Paul and the other apostles gather Christians into 'churches', that Paul put men in charge of these 'churches' and encouraged them to help other 'churches'.
as matt 28 says:-
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

How are they to be taught? Is gathering believers together to worship and to learn, to encourage one another and be encouraged wrong?

Most of the bible both old and new is addressed to either all Israel or to groups of believers.
The example of the NT is of believers gathered into groups, meeting regularly together.

Let me ask you how should Christian worship God?
Should they meet together?

Read my post 4. 12 twelve churches have put Christian teachers into secular schools teaching children who do not have any Christian influence in there lives and this has been going on for over 20 years. Are we wrong to do this?
Look at missionary organisations. Should they exist?
How should missionaries be sent to where they are needed?


You asked mjrhealth : "Is gathering believers together to worship and to learn, to encourage one another and be encouraged wrong?"

He hates the Church of God, and the Word of God.
He has stated several times that the Bible is an idol, that it has many contradictions.
He has stated that the reason he uses Bible verses is 'because Christians demand it'.
 

Windmillcharge

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Not buildings as teh word "church" incorrect proclaims, they where a gathering from a town, not some man made denomination, and yet they screwed up. what was it Jesus told them not to do.

Luk 22:25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
Luk 22:26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

and what did they do, they created a structure completely against His will, see how they are just like us. We are supposed to be LEd by te hSpirirt not follow after men, which men prefer to do,

You are making very sweeping statements that All Christians who attend a church are being mislead and taught false doctrine.

Are you the only Christian who has got it right?

or are you just arogant?


Churches get it wrong. Yes because the people get it wrong. Yet God uses people in churches.
He uses the fact that a BUILDING SAYS ' Here are where Christians meet.'
A church enables greater resources to be gathered and used in God's service.
Just about every missionary serving God is sent by a home church and supported financially by a number of churches.
In many towns it is churches working together who provide help to the poor and homeless/elderly, councelling services for addiction, support for those seeking abortion.

You are saying we should not meet together, I've asked what should we do and you ignored it, so how should Christians seek to provide these services if there are no churches?
 

Windmillcharge

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You asked mjrhealth : "Is gathering believers together to worship and to learn, to encourage one another and be encouraged wrong?"

He hates the Church of God, and the Word of God.
He has stated several times that the Bible is an idol, that it has many contradictions.
He has stated that the reason he uses Bible verses is 'because Christians demand it'.

Thank you for clarifing. I presumed because he discribed himself as 'Christian' that he was.
 

mjrhealth

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Are you the only Christian who has got it right?

or are you just arogant?
Never said that, I said we all have the choice to follow Christ or follow men. Most choose to follow men. Than teh devil comes and does his play on words. If you have His spirit, than you are His as Christ put it,

Joh 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
Joh 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
Joh 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
Joh 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Joh 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

If you think that because someone is in church they are a christian you really need your eyes opened.

Christ is right, God is right, The Holy Spirit who can only speak what He is told is right. all men are wrong, even me, so I choose Christ for as long as I follow after Him I can do no wrong. Yo0u too have that choice, and now that you asked you too are without excuse.
 

Windmillcharge

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so I choose Christ for as long as I follow after Him I can do no wrong.

That it complete garbage.

Just because you follow Jesus you can do no wrong! Following Jesus does not protect you from doing wrong. You are treating him as a lucky charm.