Fire breathing dragons

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DID FIRE BREATHING DRAGONS REALLY EXIST ?


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Boaz

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Jan 7, 2014
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Did fire breathing dragons exist or are they just a myth ?



Revelation 12:3
King James Version (KJV)


[SIZE=.75em]3 [/SIZE]And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.


A dragon with crowns :unsure:
 

DaDad

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Sep 28, 2012
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Hi Boaz,

Asking a question without full disclosure typically leads to invalid answers. So in the interests of full disclosure I provide the following three concepts:



1. What is a "fire breathing" dragon?

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/flyingserpent.html
Pterosaurs in the Bible
Reports of Pterosaurs still alive are recorded in Ethiopia, India and the jungles of Africa. Some of the flying dinosaurs are said be nocturnal, and have a phosphorescent quality about them. These could be the fiery flying serpents described in the book of Isaiah.




http://live-pterodactyl.com/

The American cryptozoologist-explorer David Woetzel witnessed the glowing ropen as it flew towards Lake Pung, late in 2004, on Umboi Island.



http://creationwiki.org/David_Woetzel

David Woetzel, a New Hampshire businessman, is an active cryptozoology explorer, having searched for the Mokele Mbembe in Africa and the ropen in Papua New Guinea. His 2004[1] expedition to Umboi Island, with Garth Guessman and Jacob Kepas, resulted in detailed interviews [2]with villagers. In addition, Woetzel himself saw [3] what investigators believe was a bioluminescent ropen (a living pterosaur) one night as the distant glowing form flew behind a mountain.



Per the above, it might be possible that a bioluminescent creature might be perceived as "fire breathing".



2. In using the Revelation 12:3 citation, you confuse a figurative depiction with a literal beast:

Rev. 12:3
... a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems upon his heads. ...

Rev. 13:1
And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems upon its horns and a blasphemous name upon its heads. 2 And the beast that I saw was like a leopard, its feet were like a bear’s, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth. ...

Rev. 17:3
... and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns.

Dan. 7:7
... a fourth beast, terrible and dreadful and exceedingly strong; and it had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces, and stamped the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.


Per the above each of the heads, horns, diadems, and beast depictions correlate to tangible governmental attributes, which culminate in the one-world-government.



3. The Bible DOES provide the following "fire breathing dragon" depiction:

Job 41
18 His sneezings flash forth light,
and his eyes are like the eyelids of the dawn.
19 Out of his mouth go flaming torches;
sparks of fire leap forth.
20 Out of his nostrils comes forth smoke,
as from a boiling pot and burning rushes.
21 His breath kindles coals,
and a flame comes forth from his mouth.




Now your audience might be better informed to assess exactly what creation might have delivered, and what Scripture might have accounted.



With Best Regards,
DaDad


PS It might help if you defined whether or not a bioluminenscent creature meets the criteria of "fire breathing".
 

Angelina

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Based on Job 41 which DD provided - and Legends from around Europe and England back in the days of yore....I think they did! :)
 
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KingJ

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The best proof for me is the fact that Rev 12:9 and Rev 20:2 call the devil a dragon. They could call him a gremlin or a bad fairy. Jesus is called the Lion of Judah and not a unicorn.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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KingJ said:
The best proof for me is the fact that Rev 12:9 and Rev 20:2 call the devil a dragon. They could call him a gremlin or a bad fairy. Jesus is called the Lion of Judah and not a unicorn.
Good point .... never thought of that !!!!!!!!
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, Boaz.

Two things one should remember:

First, a "dragon," particularly in the English translations of the Hebrew Tanakh (the Old Testament), means simply "a large lizard or reptile."

OT:8577 tanniyn (tan-neen'); or tanniym (Ezek 29:3) (tan-neem'); intensive from the same as OT:8565; a marine or land monster, i.e. sea-serpent or jackal:
KJV - dragon, sea-monster, serpent, whale.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

The word "taniym," spelled tav-patach-nun-chireq-yod-mem, is used specifically for the Nile crocodile in Yechezk'el's prophecy against the Pharaoh of Egypt:

Ezekiel 29:3-4
3 Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers (the Nile and its delta streams), which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.
4 But I will put hooks in thy jaws, and I will cause the fish of thy rivers to stick unto thy scales, and I will bring thee up out of the midst of thy rivers, and all the fish of thy rivers shall stick unto thy scales.
KJV


When one looks this word up in a good Hebrew-English dictionary, such as Webster's NewWorld Hebrew Dictionary, one will find:

taneen / -eem nm crocodile; (pl+of: -ey)

(A similar Hebrew word is also listed on the same page:

tan / -eem nm jackal)

The Greek language has a similar word, "drakoon," spelled delta-rho-alpha-kappa-omega-nu.

It may be found in the Greek Dictionary of Bible Words found in the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible:

NT:1404 drakoon (drak'-own); probably from an alternate form of derkomai (to look); a fabulous kind of serpent (perhaps as supposed to fascinate):
KJV - dragon.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

This word is only to be found in the B'rit Chadashah (the New Testament) within the book of Revelation:

Revelation 12:3, 4, 7 (twice), 9, 13, 16, 17; 13:2, 4, 11; 16:13; and 20:2.

We are told that Yochanan (John) sees this creature as a large, red creature with seven crowned heads, a tail and apparently wings, for originally in the war of 12:7, they - the drakoon and his messengers - could fly in the sky ("heaven") until in verse 9 they were thrown to the ground ("earth") and in verse 8, we are told that they had no more place in the sky, i.e., his wings, their wings, were CLIPPED! They could no longer fly.

Secondly, we are told in 12:9 and later in 20:2 that the drakoon was also called "the devil" (Greek: "diabolos" = "slanderer") and "satan" (Hebrew: "saataan" = "a [courtroom] enemy") and that he was the "original serpent" or "original snake" in the Garden of Eden.

Revelation 20:1-3
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent (Greek: "ho ofis ho archaios" = "the snake the original"), which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
KJV


Reading the description of the fall in Genesis 3 and the curse placed upon the serpent or snake:

Genesis 3:14-15
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
KJV


Apparently, before this curse was invoked, the serpent did NOT go upon his belly. In other words, it either had appendages that supported it off the ground or it could fly. After the curse, those appendages were set to the side of the body, such as on lizards today, or they were stunted and/or removed altogether, like in modern snakes and serpents. Some species of snakes actually have vestigial hips and leg bones beneath their skin.

Also, the word for "crowns" is "diadeemata," the plural of "diadeema," from which we get our word "diadem." It means a "circlet," as "bound about the head." These crowns are not necessarily removable, but may be natural markings on each head of this creature.

The horns he saw were probably arranged down the spine in one or two lines, in order for him to be able to count them in a glance, and they were NOT associated with the heads.

My point is this: Not everything in the book of Revelation has to be figurative or representative of something else. Yochanan (John) may have actually seen some of these creatures and scenes and was describing them as literally as he could.

Another point I'd like to bear out is that the creationists of the Institute for Creation Research have noted that some of the creatures that we have labeled "dinosaurs" had chambers within their skulls for which their purpose is not totally or adequately explained, and some have noted that the bombardier beetle has the ability to mix chemicals to produce a hot liquid/gas that is propelled out of the beetle's abdomen to repel predators. While some scientists believe these chambers may have been resonance chambers, these creationist scientists believe they may have had similar mechanisms within their skulls as that of the bombardier beetle to "breathe fire" more LITERALLY!

Just some things to think about.
 

DaDad

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Retrobyter said:
Also, the word for "crowns" is "diadeemata," the plural of "diadeema," from which we get our word "diadem." It means a "circlet," as "bound about the head." These crowns are not necessarily removable, but may be natural markings on each head of this creature.

The horns he saw were probably arranged down the spine in one or two lines, in order for him to be able to count them in a glance, and they were NOT associated with the heads.

My point is this: Not everything in the book of Revelation has to be figurative or representative of something else
Hi Retrobyter,

I would again propose that the Daniel & Revelation depictions (as previously cited) have governmental implications, including the "crowns"/"diadems"; horns (without any presumed spine association); and the rest of the depictions (without an presumed tail or wings). If you are interested, I would like to provide the evidence and argument for any and all of these facets.



Retrobyter said:
... the Institute for Creation Research have noted that some of the creatures that we have labeled "dinosaurs" had chambers within their skulls for which their purpose is not totally or adequately explained, and some have noted that the bombardier beetle has the ability to mix chemicals to produce a hot liquid/gas that is propelled out of the beetle's abdomen to repel predators. While some scientists believe these chambers may have been resonance chambers, these creationist scientists believe they may have had similar mechanisms within their skulls as that of the bombardier beetle to "breathe fire" more LITERALLY!
Thanks for this thought provoking addition to the discussion. :)


With Best Regards,
DaDad
 

Boaz

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Jan 7, 2014
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Arnie Manitoba said:
Behemoth is A gyrocopter built by my friend Gabor in Orlando FL

Rotor blades not installed yet ... these are just taxi tests.

:) :) :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_31bqCd2Vc

I meant

Job 40:15
Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

What is Leviathan ?
 

DaDad

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Boaz said:
I meant ...

It would seem you didn't like the answers already provided. Do you expect a DIFFERENT response if you keep asking?


Some children ask, and ask, and ask, and ask, -- until their parents give in.



With Best Regards,
DaDad
 

Arnie Manitoba

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Boaz .... I knew what you meant by Behemoth .... but you had been asking about fire breathing dragons .... then you threw in behemoths and now Leviathans .... so what was it you were wanting to know?

And what is your opinion of the bombardier beetle .... it uses what amounts to rocket fuel to heat and boil water and shoot it at its enemy.

The system operates very similar to pulse jets and rocket motors.

So the answer is yes .... it is possible for a living biological animal or insect to breath fire out of its mouth .... or in the case of the beetle , out its ass.
 

Boaz

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Jan 7, 2014
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Arnie Manitoba said:
Boaz .... I knew what you meant by Behemoth .... but you had been asking about fire breathing dragons .... then you threw in behemoths and now Leviathans .... so what was it you were wanting to know?

And what is your opinion of the bombardier beetle .... it uses what amounts to rocket fuel to heat and boil water and shoot it at its enemy.

The system operates very similar to pulse jets and rocket motors.

So the answer is yes .... it is possible for a living biological animal or insect to breath fire out of its mouth .... or in the case of the beetle , out its ass.
What exactly were they ? Leviathan and Behemoth ? not a helicopter
DaDad said:
It would seem you didn't like the answers already provided. Do you expect a DIFFERENT response if you keep asking?


Some children ask, and ask, and ask, and ask, -- until their parents give in.



With Best Regards,
DaDad
:huh:
 

DaDad

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Boaz said:
What exactly were they ? Leviathan and Behemoth ? not a helicopter

:huh:
Hi Boaz,

I'm confused. It seems that the scope of the input has been to acknowledge that dinosaurs and humans co-existed. Is there some confusion that dinosaurs are called leviathans and behemoths? Did you want to parse which were sea, land, and air?


With Best Regards,
DaDad
 

Boaz

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Jan 7, 2014
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DaDad said:
Hi Boaz,

I'm confused. It seems that the scope of the input has been to acknowledge that dinosaurs and humans co-existed. Is there some confusion that dinosaurs are called leviathans and behemoths? Did you want to parse which were sea, land, and air?


With Best Regards,
DaDad
I just want to know what are these creature mentioned in Job ? Do you know what they are ?
 

DaDad

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Boaz said:
I just want to know what are these creature mentioned in Job ? Do you know what they are ?
Did you want a full delineation, -- domain; kingdom, (plantae, protista, anamalia); phylum, (linnaean, embranchements); class (superclass, class, subclass, infraclass, parvclass); order, (magnorder, superorder, grandorder, order, suborder, infraorder parvorder); family; genus; species; variety; and DNA?


DaDad
 

Boaz

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Jan 7, 2014
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What do you think this creatures were ?

A dinasour, dragon or what

thanks

Job 41
King James Version (KJV)


[SIZE=1.25em]41 [/SIZE]Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
[SIZE=.75em]2 [/SIZE]Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?




Job 40:15
Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
 

horsecamp

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NO Fire breathing dragons--- ONLY FIRE "EXHALING" DRAGONS EXISTED ;)

EARLY VIKINGS KNEW ABOUT THEM AND BUTCHERED THEM UP .. YOU DIDNT THINK

LUTEFISK CAME FROM FRESH FISH DID YOU ?

ITS THOUSAND YEAR OLD RANSED DRAGON LIVERS SOAKED IN LYE AND VIKING out house CHARCOAL to make it taste better .. but it didnt --- it tastes far worse..

Thats why their are no top viking chef shows ON TV to this very day..

i CANT BELIEVE MY MOMMY AND DADDY FED ME THAT CRAPY LUTEFISK IM STILL PISSED..AND I AM 65 YEARS OLD NOW.





.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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Mar 8, 2011
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horsecamp said:
NO Fire breathing dragons--- ONLY FIRE "EXHALING" DRAGONS EXISTED ;)

EARLY VIKINGS KNEW ABOUT THEM AND BUTCHERED THEM UP .. YOU DIDNT THINK

LUTEFISK CAME FROM FRESH FISH DID YOU ?

ITS THOUSAND YEAR OLD RANSED DRAGON LIVERS SOAKED IN LYE AND VIKING out house CHARCOAL to make it taste better .. but it didnt --- it tastes far worse..

Thats why their are no top viking chef shows ON TV to this very day..

i CANT BELIEVE MY MOMMY AND DADDY FED ME THAT CRAPY LUTEFISK IM STILL PISSED..AND I AM 65 YEARS OLD NOW.





.
Picky picky picky ..... OK then .... fire exhaling dragons !!!!! :)

And speaking of Vikings I am one (Denmark) .... but I have never ever eaten Ludefisk ... that stuff smells worse than the bathroom

I come from the good line of Vikings .... the ones who set out in their longboats to bring the gospel to the nations .... the Vikings began doing that after King Harald Bluetooth converted all of Denmark from Paganism to Christianity .... the world needs more kings like that :)

Anyway ... the girl in the video has a solution for stinky Ludefisk and stinky Behemoths (she actually says Behemoth so we remain on-topic in this thread) :)

Language warning (sort of)
It is actually a family approved advertisement
I could get fired for this :)

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKLnhuzh9uY