Flesh VS Spirit

[Dave L]

Flesh VS Spirit

Jesus says: “For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:” (Matthew 15:19)

Earlier Moses said: “And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” (Deuteronomy 30:6)

And later John said: “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9–10)

But then Paul comes along and says: “This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.” (Galatians 5:16–17)

So we see two conditions Christians face. God sends his Spirit into our hearts after which, according to John, we cannot sin. But we also have an evil side that Paul says is contrary to and fights against the Spirit within.

But Paul also says if we are in Christ, we are a new creation, old things passed away. So does this mean we now have a split personality? Or is something else taking place in us?

The two natures theory says we have the old man battling the new man, as though we are now split personalities trying to cope. Sitting Bull said: “Inside of me there are two dogs. One is mean and evil and the other is good and they fight each other all the time. When asked which one wins I answer, the one I feed the most.” But does one “dog” go to heaven at death and the other go to hell? This is not possible.

Rather we have a condition where our new eternal spirit lives through a fallen body and soul with a lifelong sin habit. In this case it is an old dog we can teach new tricks. But only up to a point since flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God. Paul says we are treasure in earthen vessels.


Our mind has no personality of its own no more than our arms or legs, or body does. But everything we think, say or do filters through our fallen human nature called the flesh. And it resists all the good we now use to overpower it instead of the way it used to overpower us with its cravings. While through persistence we break old habits while learning new.

But instead of part of us going to hell and part of us going to heaven when we die, our flesh returns to the soil where all the bad that plagues us forever disappears. And our spirit goes to heaven where we reign with Christ as we wait for the resurrection of our bodies. Then purified and glorified like to Jesus’ own glorious body.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Flesh VS Spirit

Jesus says: “For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:” (Matthew 15:19)

Earlier Moses said: “And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” (Deuteronomy 30:6)

And later John said: “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9–10)

But then Paul comes along and says: “This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.” (Galatians 5:16–17)

So we see two conditions Christians face. God sends his Spirit into our hearts after which, according to John, we cannot sin. But we also have an evil side that Paul says is contrary to and fights against the Spirit within.

But Paul also says if we are in Christ, we are a new creation, old things passed away. So does this mean we now have a split personality? Or is something else taking place in us?

The two natures theory says we have the old man battling the new man, as though we are now split personalities trying to cope. Sitting Bull said: “Inside of me there are two dogs. One is mean and evil and the other is good and they fight each other all the time. When asked which one wins I answer, the one I feed the most.” But does one “dog” go to heaven at death and the other go to hell? This is not possible.

Rather we have a condition where our new eternal spirit lives through a fallen body and soul with a lifelong sin habit. In this case it is an old dog we can teach new tricks. But only up to a point since flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God. Paul says we are treasure in earthen vessels.


Our mind has no personality of its own no more than our arms or legs, or body does. But everything we think, say or do filters through our fallen human nature called the flesh. And it resists all the good we now use to overpower it instead of the way it used to overpower us with its cravings. While through persistence we break old habits while learning new.

But instead of part of us going to hell and part of us going to heaven when we die, our flesh returns to the soil where all the bad that plagues us forever disappears. And our spirit goes to heaven where we reign with Christ as we wait for the resurrection of our bodies. Then purified and glorified like to Jesus’ own glorious body.

So what you are saying is that sorcery, adultery, murdering is just part of our flesh and will be destroyed in the end, but our spirit will go to heaven?

Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Dave L]

So what you are saying is that sorcery, adultery, murdering is just part of our flesh and will be destroyed in the end, but our spirit will go to heaven?

Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Basically yes. But it is only sin if we yield to it. This is how I overcome.

“Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.” (2 Corinthians 10:5–6)

We censor every impure thought or imagination. And change the channel in our thinking on any thought that does not conform to obedience to Christ.

And we replace it with:

“Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.” (Philippians 4:8)

Knowing Jesus is God and God is love. So Jesus is lord of our lives when love rules our thoughts and actions.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Basically yes. But it is only sin if we yield to it. This is how I overcome.

“Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.” (2 Corinthians 10:5–6)

We censor every impure thought or imagination. And change the channel in our thinking on any thought that does not conform to obedience to Christ.

And we replace it with:

“Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.” (Philippians 4:8)

Knowing Jesus is God and God is love. So Jesus is lord of our lives when love rules our thoughts and actions.

So what happens if you don't change the channel and continue in adultery because the flesh is so weak?

 

[Dave L]

So what happens if you don't change the channel and continue in adultery because the flesh is so weak?

You are not born again if you remain in sin. “For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.” (1 John 5:4)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You are not born again if you remain in sin. “For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.” (1 John 5:4)

Then if you cannot sin, how can you say the flesh is not dead?

For instance, my husband married his mistress. Are they living in adultery because he divorced me and married his best friend's wife? Will they go to heaven? They go to church.

 

[Dave L]

Then if you cannot sin, how can you say the flesh is not dead?

For instance, my husband married his mistress. Are they living in adultery because he divorced me and married his best friend's wife? Will they go to heaven? They go to church.

It's doubtful. It is also doubtful they go to a true church if the church condones it.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It's doubtful. It is also doubtful they go to a true church.

It's a "grace" covers sin type church.

 

[Dave L]

It's a "grace" covers sin type church.

Unrepentant sin is damnable.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Unrepentant sin is damnable.

You didn't answer this part "Then if you cannot sin, how can you say the flesh is not dead?"

 

[Dave L]

You didn't answer this part "Then if you cannot sin, how can you say the flesh is not dead?"

You still have temptation to battle from the flesh. But temptation is not sin unless we indulge it. Example, I repented of former sins I really enjoyed when unregenerate. And sometimes I need to battle their memories, knowing I never truly repented if I indulge them.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You still have temptation to battle from the flesh. But temptation is not sin unless we indulge it. Example, I repented of former sins I really enjoyed when unregenerate. And sometimes I need to battle their memories, knowing I never truly repented if I indulge them.

The way I look at the flesh is Romans 6 - we are dead to sin, and that means our sin nature is dead - the other meaning of "flesh." We suddenly hate sin and love righteousness. It is easy not to sin, because even when temptation comes our way, we can do all things through Christ Who strengthens me.

Your "basically, yes" answer from a couple posts ago, seem contradictory to what else you've said. I would have said, "absolutely not."

 

[Dave L]

The way I look at the flesh is Romans 6 - we are dead to sin, and that means our sin nature is dead - the other meaning of "flesh." We suddenly hate sin and love righteousness. It is easy not to sin, because even when temptation comes our way, we can do all things through Christ Who strengthens me.

Your "basically, yes" answer from a couple posts ago, seem contradictory to what else you've said. I would have said, "absolutely not."

Here's the flesh:

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21)

Here's the Fruit of the Spirit:

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.” (Galatians 5:22–25)

If the flesh is good, why resist it?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Here's the flesh:

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21)

Here's the Fruit of the Spirit:

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.” (Galatians 5:22–25)

If the flesh is good, why resist it?

The flesh is bad, that is why God replaces it. That is what being born again is all about. Not just our spirit, but our sin nature (flesh).

We consist of spirit, mind and body. Our spirit and mind are born again of the Spirit. Our mind is the sin nature we’ve inherited from Adam, and is renewed - it is also called "flesh." So don't stay confused on this word. Our body of flesh will put on incorruption when we are resurrected from the dead.

Galatians 5:19-21 are not saved.

 

[Dave L]

The flesh is bad, that is why God replaces it. That is what being born again is all about. Not just our spirit, but our sin nature (flesh).

We consist of spirit, mind and body. Our spirit and mind are born again of the Spirit. Our mind is the sin nature we’ve inherited from Adam, and is renewed - it is also called "flesh." So don't stay confused on this word. Our body of flesh will put on incorruption when we are resurrected from the dead.

Galatians 5:19-21 are not saved.

Here's how it works: Jesus said;

“For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.” (Matthew 15:19–20)

This is our condition before the new birth. Heart = spirit.

After the New Birth we are this:

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.” (Galatians 5:22–23)

But the flesh remains until death. It is this;

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21)

But Paul says:

“And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.” (Galatians 5:24–25)

And:

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.” (Galatians 5:16–17)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Here's how it works: Jesus said;

“For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.” (Matthew 15:19–20)

This is our condition before the new birth. Heart = spirit.

After the New Birth we are this:

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.” (Galatians 5:22–23)

But the flesh remains until death. It is this;

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21)

But Paul says:

“And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.” (Galatians 5:24–25)

And:

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.” (Galatians 5:16–17)

I disagree. The mind is also the flesh and is either unregenerate or reborn. The mind is the source of adultery, murders, sorcery, lack of self control, etc.

We have the mind of Christ.

 

[Dave L]

I disagree. The mind is also the flesh and is either unregenerate or reborn. The mind is the source of adultery, murders, sorcery, lack of self control, etc.

We have the mind of Christ.

We have the mind of Christ only when we censor our thoughts and imaginations. And force the flesh to comply with holiness. The flesh cannot receive spiritual information on its own. It receives only what the carnal senses provide. So it remains isolated from God unless we resist it's evil impulses and make it conform to the Spirit. Why would Paul admonish us to resist the flesh and walk in the Spirit if the flesh had any good of its own?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

We have the mind of Christ only when we censor our thoughts and imaginations. And force the flesh to comply with holiness. The flesh cannot receive spiritual information on its own. It receives only what the carnal senses provide. So it remains isolated from God unless we resist it's evil impulses and make it conform to the Spirit. Why would Paul admonish us to resist the flesh and walk in the Spirit if the flesh had any good of its own?

As I said, the sin nature is bad. That is why it is removed by the Spirit. It is not only a fact, as in we are dead to sin, but we must also reckon ourselves dead to sin, which is what you are talking about. But we must first be dead to sin. That only happens through the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I was in church for 30 years before I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. During that 30 years I never once received an answer to prayer because I was still entrenched in sin. But when I truly repented, I was filled with the Spirit, and it was like night turning to day. I wasn't saved before, but was now. It is interesting that one of the tests of salvation is answered prayer. 1 John 3

 

[Dave L]

As I said, the sin nature is bad. That is why it is removed by the Spirit. It is not only a fact, as in we are dead to sin, but we must also reckon ourselves dead to sin, which is what you are talking about. But we must first be dead to sin. That only happens through the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I was in church for 30 years before I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. During that 30 years I never once received an answer to prayer because I was still entrenched in sin. But when I truly repented, I was filled with the Spirit, and it was like night turning to day. I wasn't saved. It is interesting that one of the tests of salvation is answered prayer. 1 John 3

Why must you reckon yourself dead to sin if it isn't a problem?

 

[H. Richard]

Two people working on the idea that God changes the sinful nature.

But in the end they both come down to an idea that their flesh no longer sins and it is because of what they do, or do not do.

An idea that God has set them free only to become slaves to their sinful nature of which they, by their work of resisting sins, no longer do.

They wish to establish their own righteousness rather than accept God's righteousness freely given to those who trust in Him.

Religious men/women trust in themselves and their ability. But the children of God only trust in God.

I have had my say and will not argue,

bye.