freewill is bogus

[bbyrd009]

it is precisely because we do not have freewill that Jesus came to set us free - try and tell Paul at Rmns 7:14-25 - how can a carnal, warped, fragmented, fallen will be free - twinc

by choosing sin

 

[bbyrd009]

I think we had freewill in the Garden before the Fall

i dislike this because the Fall = "when we got free will" imo. We say that animals do not have free will because they do not know the difference in good and evil, don't we?

 

[Helen]

hmm, this might be rephrased, Peter's decision was to cut off an ear, and he succeeded, but i'll let @perrero reply

Maybe it aimed at the head and God mad sure it only hit his ear! :)
I wonder if he became a believer when Jesus healed him!!

 

[aspen]

i dislike this because the Fall = "when we got free will" imo. We say that animals do not have free will because they do not know the difference in good and evil, don't we?

Nah, humans went from a state of knowing wholeness and considering brokeness, to a place of slavery to brokeness. Fallen humanity gave up their freedom to choose Good after the Fall - nothing free about that.

 

[bbyrd009]

Maybe it aimed at the head and God mad sure it only hit his ear! :)
I wonder if he became a believer when Jesus healed him!!

ha, one would think, huh?

actually i wonder if the par...story is not more about the "ear" of a certain type of person being removed/healed...too

 

[bbyrd009]

Nah, humans went from a state of knowing wholeness and considering brokeness, to a place of slavery to brokeness. Fallen humanity gave up their freedom to choose Good after the Fall - nothing free about that.

why do you say this, they got a skin right away!

 

[aspen]

why do you say this, they got a skin right away!

The skin is their false self/Old Man/Ego. It represents hidding/secrecy/lack of willingness to be vulnerable

 

[twinc]

The skin is their false self/Old Man/Ego. It represents hidding/secrecy/lack of willingness to be vulnerable

thinking is impossible so is not thinking - this thought occurred on reading this - twinc

 

[bbyrd009]

The skin is their false self/Old Man/Ego. It represents hidding/secrecy/lack of willingness to be vulnerable

a viable perspective imo, but another one has the "skin" as Christ, what then?

 

[aspen]

a viable perspective imo, but another one has the "skin" as Christ, what then?

I do not believe the skin they received was a physical body. I believe Jesus was entirely living from His True self on earth. He was able to consider sin/brokeness, but remain whole/sinless. We are slaves to our false self, apart from Christ. With Christ, we are able to regain perspective, but still slide back into slavery - we are sort of like recovering addicts - even if we maintain our sobriety, we still hear the siren call

 

[aspen]

Oh, i think i misunderstood your post, Bb.

I’ve never thought of Christ being the skin. Ill have to think about it

 

[bbyrd009]

Oh, i think i misunderstood your post, Bb.

I’ve never thought of Christ being the skin. Ill have to think about it

seems to me the ego was the Fall, in a sense, it is what separates us from God?

 

[perrero]

Nah, humans went from a state of knowing wholeness and considering brokeness, to a place of slavery to brokeness. Fallen humanity gave up their freedom to choose Good after the Fall - nothing free about that.

Fallen humanity still have the faculty of choosing God when the Spirit draws them individually to Him. A Christian still has the faculty to obey or disobey, to produce the good works He has prepared for us or ignore those good works. Freewill, the power to choose one way or the other, is not attach to good nor to evil. It is simply the faculty that can springboard us into the ways that produce life or ways that produce death.

 

[twinc]

Fallen humanity still have the faculty of choosing God when the Spirit draws them individually to Him. A Christian still has the faculty to obey or disobey, to produce the good works He has prepared for us or ignore those good works. Freewill, the power to choose one way or the other, is not attach to good nor to evil. It is simply the faculty that can springboard us into the ways that produce life or ways that produce death.

a man born a moron or mentally deficient, especially like us after the fall cannot possibly have free will imho - plead not guilty and hope for mercy or go to hell - twinc

 

[twinc]

Fallen humanity still have the faculty of choosing God when the Spirit draws them individually to Him. A Christian still has the faculty to obey or disobey, to produce the good works He has prepared for us or ignore those good works. Freewill, the power to choose one way or the other, is not attach to good nor to evil. It is simply the faculty that can springboard us into the ways that produce life or ways that produce death.

according to you and our inflated egos bujt not according to Paul and Christ etc - it seems all our good works are filth - twinc

 

[perrero]

What happened in Las Vegas is horrifying but if for one second I believed God had no power to prevent it...and since he does have the power then He choose not to: then I am left with the question? What good are You going to bring through such loss, God?

Since when does God have to intervene in such calamities? God warned mankind through Adam that sin will bring death. Everything that dies on this planet is the consequence of sin and death that has entered this world.
If God intervenes in one situation, He must intervene in all. And the moment He intervene in all, He goes back to the sandbox with human toys.

 

[aspen]

seems to me the ego was the Fall, in a sense, it is what separates us from God?

Fun to think about

 

[perrero]

Yet he did... Several times. I gave you plenty examples. And whom is God talking about when Peter said God is not willing that any should perish? He's talking about Christians.

Read the context form the beginning of the chapter. God is speaking to Christians but He is telling them what is going to happen to unbelievers.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Does this sound like Christians, would they not already have repented?

So let's cut to the chase. Period.

If I am correct you believe Freewill is bogus, a figment of man's imagination. Basically God controls it all, life, death, heaven, hell and there's nothing we can do about it.
Am I correct so far?
This would also mean that He is the orchestra-tor of evil. Can you explain to me the purpose of Salvation? Or why the need for the death of Christ?
If you can respond specifically to my questions, we'll be able to have a dialogue.
All yours.

 

[aspen]

Since when does God have to intervene in such calamities? God warned mankind through Adam that sin will bring death. Everything that dies on this planet is the consequence of sin and death that has entered this world.
If God intervenes in one situation, He must intervene in all. And the moment He intervene in all, He goes back to the sandbox with human toys.

I can’t go along with this idea. Warning about consequences does not excuse anyone from mercy and justice.

 

[bbyrd009]

I can’t go along with this idea. Warning about consequences does not excuse anyone from mercy and justice.

i have some questions about the possibility of progeny without anyone ever physically dying, myself @perrero