God "CREATED" -- What it actually means.

[Cassandra]

but rather going too deep for this forum.

Nice little insult there .
I am sure that most folk can read what he's writing.
The problem is buying it.

 

[Taken]

As I said, do not discern any symbolism in the first wo chapters of the Bible. The Creation account is to be understood literally, amd that God created the universe. It is not some subjective illusion.
This is one of life's biggest questions? How did this universe and specifically life happen. A Supreme Being created everything and everything that is good comes from the Creator.
Einstein didn't believe in a personal God nor life after death. Je alao thought rhat our faith in the God of the Bible was childish and naive. And I think Scott (since he wrote a book about him), combines some of Einstein's pantheistic view and life is an illusion with Christianity.

Thanks for your response.

 

[Taken]

Nice little insult there .
I am sure that most folk can read what he's writing.
The problem is buying it.

The problem is understanding.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yes, not our time table. But you are considering the end differently than it is foretold: "as the days of Noah."

Other than the increase of knowledge, the end includes no fanfare, no last main event finale, as many believe, but rather the waters of the Spirit slowly rising. That main event has long since passed, with the End, whom is Christ.

You will most likely be in for a surprise Scott. Or I will one of the two. We believe Jesus is going to return in the near future.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

As I said, do not discern any symbolism in the first wo chapters of the Bible.

not even in Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

to me the above speaks of a supernatural birth and is prophetic to how His Spirit moves upon an earthen vessel, where darkness is upon the deep …taking that which is without form and is void …the next significant
“Let there be Light”?

Is there a time when a person without His Spirit is without form and is void? The word mentions often concerning “empty” and “void”. Does a light shine out from the darkness? Does that Light give form to that without form? Does that Light shine to those upon the darkness of the face of the deep?
2 Corinthians 4:6-7 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. [7] But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

“Let there be Light” what Light does man perish without?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Without form and void just means
It was like a large molten rock, without mountains, oceans and of life. Then he formed it. Void > no life. We see beauty when we look at mountains, oceans, valleys, streams, flowers. The Bible simply states there was none of that.

Is there a time when a person without His Spirit is without form and is void?

Man was void of spiritual life after Adam sinned. As far as spiritual form, we are made in God's image with a mind, will, emotions, creative abilities, consiousness of self.
Also it is key to ask the question when we read, What is the topic of the sentence? And the "earth was without form and void ..."
It is not talking about man who was not created yet.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

This is why I’m not bothering to dig to deeply into a debate with you. That’s not even what most evolutionary creationist believe. Like we don’t believe the days represents epoch of times. That’s silly. That’s old earth creationist.

I say genesis 1 is completely fiction. God inspired someone(s) to write a Jewish mythology on creation to convey truth.

I suggest reading some books by evolutionary creationist, not OECist in order to understand their position. Now I understand yours. I believed it until I studied it and learned about basic science. I then did not abandon my faith, but looked at what biblical scholars had to say and realized it’s all it’s easily harmonized.

If Genesis 1 was fiction, Christ would have corrected. When God drew me to Himself, I had many questions and doubts. I could not readuly accept the OT stories, so I started woth the NT and believed. Once I was a firm believer in Christ I then alproached the OT differently. I figured if it was wrong in any part, Christ would have corrected it. Christ did not, so I accept it ALL. He is the Creator so saying that He did not do it in the way His Word expresses is problematic.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Without form and void just means
It was like a large molten rock, without mountains, oceans and of life. Then he formed it. Void > no life. We see beauty when we look at mountains, oceans, valleys, streams, flowers. The Bible simply states there was none of that.

I do get what you are saying and I’m not trying to debate your understanding of Genesis. I’m simply sharing that I can’t see how you say there is nothing else there. Period. I was simply sharing that when I read “Let there be light”, I think of, Let there be Christ. Jeremiah 4:19-27 speaks of desolate without form and void.

My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart makes a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou has heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war. [20] Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment. [21] How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet? [22] For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. [23] I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

you said “What is the topic of the sentence? And the "earth was without form and void ..."
It is not talking about man who was not created yet.”
The topic is earth…but earth is also the topic in I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Yet right before that it speaks of a people, after all the cites broken down at the presence of the Lord.

[24] I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. [25] I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. [26] I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger. [27] For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

What is the topic of the sentence? And the "earth was without form and void ..."
It is not talking about man who was not created yet.

see I don’t see how you can say that, with all due respect…considering the OT speaks of earthen vessels. What vessels are void and without form? We say “earth” and our sole focus is on a planet. What vessel does it mention in “woe to the earthen vessel” that says “what are you making?” “What are you bringing forth?” What of All that regarding …a vessel marred and without form …in the potters hand? what does God do with it??? What can a potter do with a vessel that is marred and with form? Or what of “having a form of Godliness” but denying what?

 

[Ziggy]

“Let there be Light” what Light does man perish without?

God's Glory was the first thing that came to mind.
Jhn 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

the light of life...

what is light?
It is referred to as wisdom, knowledge, understanding...
also:
Psa 89:15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O LORD, in the light of thy countenance.

2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

What is Glory?

Hugs

 

[VictoryinJesus]

What is Glory?

I don’t know. It seems what man deems as glory is temporary and passes away? Women too…like seeing in the mirror as (outward)beauty fades away?
1 Peter 1:24-25 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower thereof falls away: (makes me think of the verse concerning if she be pass the flower Of her age) 25] But the word of the Lord endures for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Glory differs? 1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

celestial bodies
terrestrial bodies…which glory passes away? That which is earthly …would that be the glory of the terrestrial? Would that glory which remains be celestial?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What I have been telling you is in complete accord with the scriptures and is the result of believing the lie that "My Master delays His coming" causing strong delusion. Which is not a loss of salvation, but what Jesus warned would result in being, "cut in two and appointed their portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Which is to say, He would leave them to their flesh until it passes, not to fully receive the Spirit until they are raised up the last day. As He also said: “Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you; and to you who hear, more will be given."

As for "secret revelation"...the track record throughout the complete history of God's people has been and is a failure to see and hear. Even Jesus was a complete surprise, not because He was not written of in the scriptures, but because most expect something different...and still do. Among the redeemed even having the Holy Spirit, most are blind by unbelief and lack of faith, which Jesus addressed and foretold, as did Peter and Paul. All of which is now a [biblical] reality.

See this lets me know you are on a very wrong wrong tracj. Every believer receives the fulness of the spirit the moment they trust in the death and resurrection of Jesus for thier sin. They don't get a "beak" , then a "wing" then a "claw" (Using the dove comparison). We become the temple of the fulness of the sp[irit in us!

But your example is not a loss of salvation- but never being saved.

 

[ScottA]

You will most likely be in for a surprise Scott. Or I will one of the two. We believe Jesus is going to return in the near future.

It is the testimony of many ("each one in his own order") including myself, that Jesus has already come "quickly" just as He said, and is now with us having returned when we first heard Him knocking and opened the door.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

“That was concerning the meaning of the parables” agree. Matthew 13:35 [this was] to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet: I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the foundation of the world.
Point was concerning Isaiah 45:8 “let the earth open up and bear fruit, And righteousness spring up with it. I, the LORD have created it.

what stands out to me is, not only let the earth open (a body was prepared for Him) and bear fruit ….but also “And righteousness spring up with it.” There are parables about the tares and the wheat springing up together. What is darkness? Why did He say My words are truth, They are Life.” Was He planting seeds of Life that would grow and bear fruit? Why…when one hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart?

What of he who has no firm root in himself but is [only temporary], falls away.

Compare Matthew 13:35 “I will utter things hidden since the foundation of the world.
Mark 4:22 For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad.

Point is maybe we get too focus on that he spoke in parables so seeing they would not see, and hearing they would not hear —“I create darkness and calamity”??
But He also Creates Light; telling them, they would remember what He said and would bring forth fruit…even going as far as saying He had given them the words, His Father had given to Him to give.

And we can learn that without having to allegorize other verses to bring that point out! Jesus said it plainly without us having to reinterpret passages of Scripture and apply them out of context.

Teh speaking in parables is not some edict that we can reinterpret passages and take them out of context and apply them out of their context. We can learn things (applying the word) but we are not allowed to alter the meanings (interpretation)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It is the testimony of many ("each one in his own order") including myself, that Jesus has already come "quickly" just as He said, and is now with us having returned when we first heard Him knocking and opened the door.

So you believe Jesus has returned to earth?

 

[ScottA]

See this lets me know you are on a very wrong wrong tracj. Every believer receives the fulness of the spirit the moment they trust in the death and resurrection of Jesus for thier sin. They don't get a "beak" , then a "wing" then a "claw" (Using the dove comparison). We become the temple of the fulness of the sp[irit in us!

But your example is not a loss of salvation- but never being saved.

No...you are not hearing it from me or from the scriptures, even though I quoted the scriptures. Here it is again:

“Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you; and to you who hear, more will be given."​

 

[ScottA]

So you believe Jesus has returned to earth?

Yes. This is what Paul referred to as being "alive and remaining" (on the earth), and "to live is Christ."

To the contrary--do you believe that NO ONE on earth has Christ in them, having first gone to the Father and returned?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes. This is what Paul referred to as being "alive and remaining" (on the earth), and "to live is Christ."

To the contrary--do you believe that NO ONE on earth has Christ in them, having first gone to the Father and returned?

SO TO YO0U JESUS IS NO LONGER IN HEAVEN?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes. This is what Paul referred to as being "alive and remaining" (on the earth), and "to live is Christ."

To the contrary--do you believe that NO ONE on earth has Christ in them, having first gone to the Father and returned?

No that is not what Paul meant but how you have misunderstood Paul.

Jesus is in us through the agency of the Holy spirit! Not that Jesus is in us, but the Holy Spirit is.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes. This is what Paul referred to as being "alive and remaining" (on the earth), and "to live is Christ."

To the contrary--do you believe that NO ONE on earth has Christ in them, having first gone to the Father and returned?

So you believe jesus will have to go back to heaven so He can return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords as is declared in REv. 19?