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VictoryinJesus

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Prison is made for criminals.
Its where they go, because they can't be allowed to harm the public, again and again and again.
They have proven by their behavior, by their choices, by their lifestyle... that they can't be trusted to live among people who are not criminals.
So, you have to keep them away from society, the public, .............= Prison.

Hell, is the place where people chose to go because they did not want Jesus or God, or Heaven, = when they had the chance to be a part of it all their LIVES.
They had this chance for as long as they were breathing, right until their DEATH BED.

Hell is not full of believers who love God and want Jesus.
Its full of people who hate God, rejected Christ and do not want to be a part of God's family, before they died.
After they are in hell, they all want Jesus, of course.
So, God created the place for them to go, as He can't allow them to be in Heaven with the people who chose to be there, and He will never.

Hell is not about, being punished, as that is the wrong idea.
Its about where to put those who dont want Jesus and who dont Love God.
You dont put those people with the people who wanted Jesus, as we are talking about for ETERNITY.
Do you think God is going to allow God Haters and Christ rejectors to be right there for all eternity with the people who Love Jesus?
=NO.
That would be chaos and strife and crazy for all eternity.

So, God put those who had no use for God, and no use for Jesus, and no use for Heaven, where they belong, after they die, as that is their CHOICE and God honors your choice.
There is a place for them and their Father, who is the Devil.
They are his Children.

Whereas Heaven is the place for the born again, ... God's LITERAL SPIRITUAL Children.

Hell, = FOREVER APART from those who want Jesus, love God, and are born again.


1 John 2:16-17 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. [17] And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

“The lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life” passes away ....when does it pass away because it sounds like those things remain? Once the lust of the flesh, the lust the eyes, and the pride of life is no more what need is there for a prison?
 

Behold

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1 John 2:16-17 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. [17] And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

“The lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life” passes away ....when does it pass away because it sounds like those things remain? Once the lust of the flesh, the lust the eyes, and the pride of life is no more what need is there for a prison?

Hell was not originally created for Man.
It was created before Man was created.
It is the final solution for the Devil and his own.
The reason it is now also inclusive of people is because people are the children of the devil, until they are born again by a NEW Father.

This is why Jesus, who is God, said. " You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of YOUR Father, you will do".

And this is why Jesus told YOU......"you MUST be born again".
Not water baptized, but BORN AGAIN.

Sin, is the Lust of "your father, the devil". So, the sin nature, that is the nature of everyone who is not born again, is the exact "nature" of their Father, who is the Devil.

People come in 2 spiritual varieties.
1. The Devil's own
2. God's born again.

So, all the lost, the unsaved, John 3:36 = having been born again by a NEW Father, = GOD.......are going to end up with THEIR father after they die.
That is Hell, followed by the Lake of Fire.
 

keithr

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You just stated, unbelievably, on a Christian Forum.... that "it does not matter where our Spirit goes, after we die".

So, you are kidding, or are you just not connected to reality?
I said it does not matter because it will be in an unconscious state. It will remain in that non-functioning state forever - effectively dead - unless God awakens it from that unconscious state and gives it a new body. That is what we are told in God's word to us, so that is what I believe. That is what I believe the reality to be.
 

keithr

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Hell was not originally created for Man. ... etc.
You didn't address the question that VictoryinJesus asked you, which was:

"Once the lust of the flesh, the lust the eyes, and the pride of life is no more what need is there for a prison?"

From what you've written before I'd guess that your response would be that we're all immortal and will live forever, so God wants to keep the bad guys seperate from the good guys and so he puts them in "hell". That he then decides to torture them for all eternity just shows God's loving, compassionate, merciful character, and makes us love him all the more (yes, I am being sarcastic!).

However, the Bible, God's word to us, does not say that we are immortal - far from it. Yet you seem to blindly ignore that and prefer to continue Satan's original lie - "You won’t really die" (Gen 3:4). By teaching Satan's lies you are, as you quoted, "of your father the devil".

John 8:42-45 (WEB):
42) Therefore Jesus said to them, “If God were your father, you would love me, for I came out and have come from God. For I haven’t come of myself, but he sent me.
43) Why don’t you understand my speech? Because you can’t hear my word.
44) You are of your father, the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and doesn’t stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks on his own; for he is a liar, and the father of lies.
45) But because I tell the truth, you don’t believe me.

I'm sorry to be harsh, but the Scriptures are plain and simple about it. Death is the opposite of life, and you cannot think, feel or do anything when you are dead. Nobody has yet been resurrected, except Jesus.

Ezekiel 18:4) Behold, all souls are mine; ... The soul who sins, he shall die.
Ecclesiastes 3:19) For that which happens to the sons of men happens to animals. Even one thing happens to them. As the one dies, so the other dies. Yes, they have all one breath; and man has no advantage over the animals: for all is vanity.
1 Timothy 2:6) [Jesus] gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 6:23) For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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keithr

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So, which church persuaded you that the Bible doesn't mean what it says?
No church has persuaded me that. But why don't you believe that what the Bible says it means? The Bible says:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16)

So why don't you believe that those who don't believe in God's son Jesus are going to perish - to be fully destroyed?
 

VictoryinJesus

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Hell was not originally created for Man.
It was created before Man was created.
It is the final solution for the Devil and his own.
The reason it is now also inclusive of people is because people are the children of the devil, until they are born again by a NEW Father.

This is why Jesus, who is God, said. " You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of YOUR Father, you will do".

And this is why Jesus told YOU......"you MUST be born again".
Not water baptized, but BORN AGAIN.

Sin, is the Lust of "your father, the devil". So, the sin nature, that is the nature of everyone who is not born again, is the exact "nature" of their Father, who is the Devil.

People come in 2 spiritual varieties.
1. The Devil's own
2. God's born again.

So, all the lost, the unsaved, John 3:36 = having been born again by a NEW Father, = GOD.......are going to end up with THEIR father after they die.
That is Hell, followed by the Lake of Fire.

we see differently there. Not that we will agree but my perspective is Hell was prepared unto His glory of setting the captives free, setting its (deaths) prisoners free. What a shout and praising when those prison doors open. As the whale was prepared to swallow up Jonah and “out of the belly I cried” and the psalms: out of the belly of hell have I cried! To say the prison-house wins and gets the victory. That the prison is able to keep those captive and held within its jaws of death...is to say He doesn’t overcome all things even the gates of Hell not able to prevail against Him. There is a verse in the Revelation of Jesus Christ that those who lead into captivity, Will go into captivity themselves. an eternal Hell...I don’t want to be leading into the captivity of it. Yet all carnality goes into it (not an evil thing)for a consumption of carnality (to be carnally minded is dead)by Fire. And there will be loss! But that is all opinion. Hell gets to keep its prisoners? What about Him who has the keys of hell and death. What a hopeful thing those keys are in His hand.
 

Robert Gwin

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Jesus was enthroned as king in 1914?

If that were true then the born again would all be in Israel and Jesus would be on David's Throne, in Jerusalem.

Let me look outside my bedroom window that is located in Israel, and let me see if that has happened...

Give me a sec.........brb.

Ok, nope.
Jesus is not on David's Throne, as He's not come back yet, (2nd Advent).
Did you notice that the RAPTURE has not occurred yet?
Did you notice that you don't have your new body yet that you will get if you are born again?
You didn't notice?
Then its time you woke up.

You might want to burn your commentaries and get out of your cult.
Really.

It is difficult to understand, but easy if you look at what Jesus said. Obviously you see the changes in the world since that time period. Jesus gave the prophecy to his apostles on how to identify when he received the crown. Mat 24:3 the biggest sign of course was a war that would dwarf all wars to date. Now this may have not meant anything to me as one sign, but in 1879 the Watchtower magazine pointed to 1914 as being that time period by discerning a prophecy found in the book of Daniel. Not that, that meant anything, but lo and behold in Oct of 1914, WW#1 broke out. We as Jehovah's people did not name that war that sir, rather the world recognized the distinction between that and any war to date. Then the earthquakes, diseases, and the other signs rapidly appeared thereafter. Most every faith believes we are deep into the last days, our faith is just one among them. Most "christian" faiths believe we are on the fringes of Jesus' return sir.
 

Grailhunter

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we see differently there. Not that we will agree but my perspective is Hell was prepared unto His glory of setting the captives free, setting its (deaths) prisoners free. What a shout and praising when those prison doors open. As the whale was prepared to swallow up Jonah and “out of the belly I cried” and the psalms: out of the belly of hell have I cried! To say the prison-house wins and gets the victory. That the prison is able to keep those captive and held within its jaws of death...is to say He doesn’t overcome all things even the gates of Hell not able to prevail against Him. There is a verse in the Revelation of Jesus Christ that those who lead into captivity, Will go into captivity themselves. an eternal Hell...I don’t want to be leading into the captivity of it. Yet all carnality goes into it (not an evil thing)for a consumption of carnality (to be carnally minded is dead)by Fire. And there will be loss! But that is all opinion. Hell gets to keep its prisoners? What about Him who has the keys of hell and death. What a hopeful thing those keys are in His hand.

Conversations like this can occur because their is so much left to speculation....no disrespect intended for anybody. Isn't it normal that Christians would like to know the specifics regarding Heaven and Hell and Satan? But the Bible just does not get down to that level detail. When was Hell created? When did Satan become a demon? When did the angelic war occur? The Hebrew Bible gave the Jews no indication that Satan was a demon. That there was a Hell. So there is room for a discussion....but it is all speculation.
 

Webers_Home

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It's very common for people to respond to criticism with recriminations, viz:
"Who are you to talk?" Well; regardless of who someone is to talk, if the
criticism is valid; then it stands; viz: recriminations are futile. It's just a
desperate tactic to mitigate one's own shame.

I predict there's going to be a quite a bit of resentment and indignation at
the Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15 when the dead see
people up in the gallery dressed in white and watching proceedings who they
know to be guilty of the very same things for which they are being
condemned to Hell.
_
 

kcnalp

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No church has persuaded me that. But why don't you believe that what the Bible says it means? The Bible says:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16)

So why don't you believe that those who don't believe in God's son Jesus are going to perish - to be fully destroyed?
"Death" does not mean "cease to exist".

"The rich man also died"
"being in torments"
"he cried"
"I am tormented in this flame"
"this place of torment"

Luke 16:22-28 (NKJV)
22 The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' 27 Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'
 

keithr

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"Death" does not mean "cease to exist".
The verse I quoted (John 3:16) says "perish", from the Greek work apollumi which means to destroy fully.

Okay, let's discuss this parable. Yes, it is a parable. I have heard some commentators claim it is not a parable because one of the characters in the story is given a name, and no characters are named in other parables. But there is no rule which says a parable must not give names to any characters! Normally characters (if there are any) are not given names because it doesn't add anything to the meaning, but in this case the name Lazarus is appropriate and does add meaning. Note that a parable is a story with a meaning other than a literal one, a description of one thing under the image of another, a story with a moral lesson (taken from a dictionary definition). Jesus mostly taught by parables:

"Jesus spoke all these things in parables to the multitudes; and without a parable, he didn’t speak to them, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken through the prophet, saying, “I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things hidden from the foundation of the world" (Mat 13:34-35).

The Rich Man and Lazarus parable is the only passage in the Bible which suggests the possibility that there is thought or feeling in hades or sheol (the grave). We cannot suppose that this is contradictory to the definition of sheol given by the prophet when he declared that there is no knowledge, wisdom, or device, only oblivion, in sheol (or Eccl 9:5 "... but the dead know nothing"). Nor can we suppose that Job made a mistake when he prayed to go to sheol in order to escape suffering.

This SYMBOLIC parable says nothing about either the wicked or the righteous, nor does it say anything about heaven. It says nothing about the
virtues or sins of either the rich man or the poor man (being rich is not a sin - Abraham was very rich, so also was Isaac, Jacob, David, Solomon, etc.). They both die. The poor man is carried to "Abraham's bosom" not heaven. Even if this were literal it would not put the poor man in heaven because Jesus said "No man hath ascended up to heaven" (John 3:13).

For context, just prior to this parable, Jesus said, "The law and the prophets were until John. From that time the Good News of God’s Kingdom is preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it" (verse 16). Jesus in this parable was teaching a great dispensational truth, namely, the change of favour from the Mosaic Law Covenant to the Covenant of faith.

In the parable the two men represent two groups, or nations. The rich man is a symbol of the Jewish nation, the poor man symbolizes the Gentiles. The Jewish nation "living in luxury every day", that is, the promises of God belonged to them, and upon these they were privileged to feast. The purple robe of the rich man represented the royal hopes of the nation, and the fine white linen represented the standing of righteousness the nation enjoyed as a result of the typical sacrifices which were made year by year for them. The rich man refers to Abraham as Father, and Abraham refers to the rich man as son, which is further evidence that the rich man represents Abrahams descendants, i.e. the Jewish nation, to whom "the law and the prophets were until John".

Israel died as a nation and lost these special favours of the Lord, but the individuals of the nation continued to live, and each successive generation of these throughout the centuries has suffered.

The key that identifies the rich man is the statement concerning the five brothers - "They have Moses and the prophets". This was only true of the
Jewish nation, which was divided into 12 tribes. After Babylonian captivity, it was mostly the 2 tribes of Judah and Benjamin that returned to Judea. It was largely, therefore, these 2 tribes to whom Jesus ministered, and these are represented by the rich man. The 5 brothers therefore represent the other 10 tribes, and the parable shows that they suffered the same fate for failing to hear Moses and the prophets.

The poor man - representing the Gentiles - also died to that condition of alienation from God which was theirs prior to the first advent of Christ.
Believing Gentiles were carried into Abraham's bosom, that is, they became children of Abraham through faith, and inherited the promises of God which were made to and through Abraham. The poor man was carried (not buried) to Abraham's bosom by the angels. These angels (messengers) were the apostles and ministers of the Gospel.

This is the only parable told by Jesus in which he gives someone a name - Lazarus. Lazarus means "whom God helps". God helps the Church - his begotten sons in whom he is working, creating a new creation in Christ.

The fire and torment suffered by the rich man symbolically represents the penalties attached to the violation of their covenant. The Jewish nation have suffered being scattered amongst the nations, and have been relentlessly persecuted ever since, even by professed Christians. The rich man cried out for a drop of water to cool his tongue. This represents a call to God to let the Christians (represented by Lazarus) give them some comfort or help.

The great gulf between them represents the wide difference between the Jews and the Christian Church. Very few have crossed this gulf to change from being a Jew to being a Christian, or vice versa, throughout the Gospel age.

If you read carefully the 32nd chapter of Deuteronomy, you will see that Jesus was merely repeating in vivid pictorial language that Moses had already used. See particularly verses 20 to 29 (quoted below); and also Paul's quotation of the 21st verse in Romans 10:19, where he shows that Moses' prophecy referred to the overthrow of Israel consequent upon Jesus' rejection of that nation.

Deu 32:19-29 (WEB):
19) Yahweh saw and abhorred, because of the provocation of his sons and his daughters.
20) He said, “I will hide my face from them. I will see what their end will be; for they are a very perverse generation, children in whom is no faithfulness.
21) They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God. They have provoked me to anger with their vanities. I will move them to jealousy with those who are not a people. I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
22) For a fire is kindled in my anger, that burns to the lowest Sheol,devours the earth with its increase, and sets the foundations of the mountains on fire.
23) “I will heap evils on them. I will spend my arrows on them.
24) They shall be wasted with hunger, and devoured with burning heat and bitter destruction. I will send the teeth of animals on them, with the venom of vipers that glide in the dust.
25) Outside the sword will bereave, and in the rooms, terror; on both young man and virgin, the nursing infant with the gray-haired man.
26) I said that I would scatter them afar. I would make their memory to cease from among men;
27) were it not that I feared the provocation of the enemy, lest their adversaries should judge wrongly, lest they should say, ‘Our hand is exalted, Yahweh has not done all this.’”
28) For they are a nation void of counsel. There is no understanding in them.
29) Oh that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end!
 

Robert Gwin

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How Satanic! ONLY sinners go to Hell.

Were you unaware that Jesus went to hell upon his death sir?

The scripture you posted was speaking about Gehenna, which is a bit different than Sheol or Hades. Those who have the judgment of gehenna and are figuratively cast here have been judged as unworthy, therefore they will have their part of the figurative lake of fire, the second death.
 

kcnalp

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Were you unaware that Jesus went to hell upon his death sir?
No Scripture? ONLY sinners go to Hell fire. Jesus NEVER sinned.
The scripture you posted was speaking about Gehenna, which is a bit different than Sheol or Hades. Those who have the judgment of gehenna and are figuratively cast here have been judged as unworthy, therefore they will have their part of the figurative lake of fire, the second death.
That doesn't agree with our Christian Bibles. I notice you didn't post any Scripture to back you.
 

kcnalp

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The verse I quoted (John 3:16) says "perish", from the Greek work apollumi which means to destroy fully.
You should have kept reading.

John 3:36 (NKJV)
36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
 

Webers_Home

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In the unruly society of Hell; it's reasonable to expect quarrels, bickering,
hard feelings, vendettas, rivalry, selfishness, insensitivity, irritation,
aggravation, and ugly words exchanged between people.

Is there really any good reason to be courteous and/or respect your fellow
man's human rights in Hell; or to be kind, forgiving, affable, genial,
courteous, cordial, charitable, altruistic, tolerant, generous, and patient?

I was once discussing the netherworld with a co-worker and he remarked:
"Hell won't be so bad; I'll have plenty of friends down there". No he won't.
What he'll actually have are more enemies; lots more.
_
 
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kcnalp

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Okay, let's discuss this parable. Yes, it is a parable. I have heard some commentators claim it is not a parable because one of the characters in the story is given a name, and no characters are named in other parables. But there is no rule which says a parable must not give names to any characters! Normally characters (if there are any) are not given names because it doesn't add anything to the meaning, but in this case the name Lazarus is appropriate and does add meaning. Note that a parable is a story with a meaning other than a literal one, a description of one thing under the image of another, a story with a moral lesson (taken from a dictionary definition). Jesus mostly taught by parables:
One of the characters? Lazarus, Abraham and Moses are not "one character". No parable does this!!! This is a very literal account.
"Jesus spoke all these things in parables to the multitudes; and without a parable, he didn’t speak to them, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken through the prophet, saying, “I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things hidden from the foundation of the world" (Mat 13:34-35).
So, John 3:16 is just a parable? Or do you just pick the parts you like?
The Rich Man and Lazarus parable is the only passage in the Bible which suggests the possibility that there is thought or feeling in hades or sheol (the grave). We cannot suppose that this is contradictory to the definition of sheol given by the prophet when he declared that there is no knowledge, wisdom, or device, only oblivion, in sheol (or Eccl 9:5 "... but the dead know nothing"). Nor can we suppose that Job made a mistake when he prayed to go to sheol in order to escape suffering.
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
This SYMBOLIC parable says nothing about either the wicked or the righteous, nor does it say anything about heaven. It says nothing about the
virtues or sins of either the rich man or the poor man (being rich is not a sin - Abraham was very rich, so also was Isaac, Jacob, David, Solomon, etc.). They both die. The poor man is carried to "Abraham's bosom" not heaven. Even if this were literal it would not put the poor man in heaven because Jesus said "No man hath ascended up to heaven" (John 3:13).

For context, just prior to this parable, Jesus said, "The law and the prophets were until John. From that time the Good News of God’s Kingdom is preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it" (verse 16). Jesus in this parable was teaching a great dispensational truth, namely, the change of favour from the Mosaic Law Covenant to the Covenant of faith.

In the parable the two men represent two groups, or nations. The rich man is a symbol of the Jewish nation, the poor man symbolizes the Gentiles. The Jewish nation "living in luxury every day", that is, the promises of God belonged to them, and upon these they were privileged to feast. The purple robe of the rich man represented the royal hopes of the nation, and the fine white linen represented the standing of righteousness the nation enjoyed as a result of the typical sacrifices which were made year by year for them. The rich man refers to Abraham as Father, and Abraham refers to the rich man as son, which is further evidence that the rich man represents Abrahams descendants, i.e. the Jewish nation, to whom "the law and the prophets were until John".

Israel died as a nation and lost these special favours of the Lord, but the individuals of the nation continued to live, and each successive generation of these throughout the centuries has suffered.

The key that identifies the rich man is the statement concerning the five brothers - "They have Moses and the prophets". This was only true of the
Jewish nation, which was divided into 12 tribes. After Babylonian captivity, it was mostly the 2 tribes of Judah and Benjamin that returned to Judea. It was largely, therefore, these 2 tribes to whom Jesus ministered, and these are represented by the rich man. The 5 brothers therefore represent the other 10 tribes, and the parable shows that they suffered the same fate for failing to hear Moses and the prophets.

The poor man - representing the Gentiles - also died to that condition of alienation from God which was theirs prior to the first advent of Christ.
Believing Gentiles were carried into Abraham's bosom, that is, they became children of Abraham through faith, and inherited the promises of God which were made to and through Abraham. The poor man was carried (not buried) to Abraham's bosom by the angels. These angels (messengers) were the apostles and ministers of the Gospel.

This is the only parable told by Jesus in which he gives someone a name - Lazarus. Lazarus means "whom God helps". God helps the Church - his begotten sons in whom he is working, creating a new creation in Christ.

The fire and torment suffered by the rich man symbolically represents the penalties attached to the violation of their covenant. The Jewish nation have suffered being scattered amongst the nations, and have been relentlessly persecuted ever since, even by professed Christians. The rich man cried out for a drop of water to cool his tongue. This represents a call to God to let the Christians (represented by Lazarus) give them some comfort or help.

The great gulf between them represents the wide difference between the Jews and the Christian Church. Very few have crossed this gulf to change from being a Jew to being a Christian, or vice versa, throughout the Gospel age.

If you read carefully the 32nd chapter of Deuteronomy, you will see that Jesus was merely repeating in vivid pictorial language that Moses had already used. See particularly verses 20 to 29 (quoted below); and also Paul's quotation of the 21st verse in Romans 10:19, where he shows that Moses' prophecy referred to the overthrow of Israel consequent upon Jesus' rejection of that nation.

Deu 32:19-29 (WEB):
19) Yahweh saw and abhorred, because of the provocation of his sons and his daughters.
20) He said, “I will hide my face from them. I will see what their end will be; for they are a very perverse generation, children in whom is no faithfulness.
21) They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God. They have provoked me to anger with their vanities. I will move them to jealousy with those who are not a people. I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
22) For a fire is kindled in my anger, that burns to the lowest Sheol,devours the earth with its increase, and sets the foundations of the mountains on fire.
23) “I will heap evils on them. I will spend my arrows on them.
24) They shall be wasted with hunger, and devoured with burning heat and bitter destruction. I will send the teeth of animals on them, with the venom of vipers that glide in the dust.
25) Outside the sword will bereave, and in the rooms, terror; on both young man and virgin, the nursing infant with the gray-haired man.
26) I said that I would scatter them afar. I would make their memory to cease from among men;
27) were it not that I feared the provocation of the enemy, lest their adversaries should judge wrongly, lest they should say, ‘Our hand is exalted, Yahweh has not done all this.’”
28) For they are a nation void of counsel. There is no understanding in them.
29) Oh that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end!
Should I believe you or Jesus? Jesus made it perfectly clear that it is eternal!

Mark 9:42-48 (NKJV)
42 "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched-- 44 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.'
45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched-- 46 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.' 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire-- 48 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.'
 
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Behold

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I said it does not matter because it will be in an unconscious state. .

Your spirit is never in an unconscious state.

Think of it like this.
Today, thousands of people died and went to hell.
They are fully aware.
And thousands died and went to heaven.
They are fully awake.

"soul sleep" is a creation of a cult, and its not connected to reality.
Its just one more man made doctrine of devils.
 
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Behold

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You didn't address the question that VictoryinJesus asked you, which was:

"Once the lust of the flesh, the lust the eyes, and the pride of life is no more what need is there for a prison?"

.

That is because the question makes no sense.

The "no more" is why exactly?

And the idea of Hell as a prison came from where?

So, sometimes, a person shows up here with such odd and disconnected theology, that i can't really follow it, as it not related to the NT< even if they are using NT verses.
 

keithr

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You should have kept reading.

John 3:36 (NKJV)
36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
You obviously haven't bothered to read my previous replies in this thread, where I have already commented on that. From reply #45:

John 3:36 is the prophet John the Baptist saying, "One who believes in the Son has eternal life, but one who disobeys the Son won’t see life, but the wrath of God remains on him". We all have the wrath of God on us and are condemned to death because of sin, but all who believe in our saviour Jesus will be granted eternal life, whether they believe now and become Christians, or whether they believe during the 1,000 years of Christ's rule after the resurrection. Those who still disobey during that trial and judgement for eternal life, will then have God's wrath remain on them, rather than be lifted, and they will be punished with the second (eternal) death.
 

Behold

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It is difficult to understand, but easy if you look at what Jesus said. Obviously you see the changes in the world since that time period. Jesus gave the prophecy to his apostles on how to identify when he received the crown.

Im not tracking your church.
Mormon? JW? worse?
Its not a mainline Christian denomination.
Its quite bizarre, this "stuff" you are sharing.