How to respond to 13-year-old daughter who declares being gay

[RLT63]

something you would never do

I wasn’t talking to you and you don’t know anything about me

 

[TinMan]

I wasn’t talking to you and you don’t know anything about me

you posted something on an open public forum. Anyone here can respond

I do know one should always be careful to not do what one scolds another for.

 

[Jim B]

I do love my neighbor , its why i correct them if they are in error .

That is all that you do. I have never read anything in your many posts that even approaches being loving. You falsely equate loving with judging and criticizing, but you clearly don't like it when others "love" you in a similar fashion.

You set yourself up as some sort of righteous judge, just as the Pharisee did when he stood next to the tax collector. Have you ever said anything that is positive and encouraging?

 

[RLT63]

you posted something on an open public forum. Anyone here can respond

I do know one should always be careful to not do what one scolds another for.

I was hardly scolding anyone, and if I posted something in all caps I don’t recall. (Bold type I remember but I can’t think of anything in all caps). Anyway since this is a public forum I apologize to anyone I may have offended by using bold type or capital letters. PS the only post I can think of that you might be referring to was not replying to any individual. It was posted in response to my own post.

 

[RLT63]

Lust being one of the keywords and you or her have to be married for it to be adultery.

So if someone is single and they lust after a beautiful, unmarried woman then it’s not a sin?

 

[RLT63]

Not accurate, its just what you want it to be,

I don’t want it to be anything other than what it actually says. I think you want it to be what you prefer

 

[RLT63]

So you can't refute what was posted. Can we expect more foot stomping?

Greek: dia touto paredoken (3SAAI) autous o theos eis pathe atimias; ai te gar theleiai autonmetellaxan ten phusiken chresin eis ten para phusin ///// Romans 1:26 - Bible Gateway ////. Romans 1:27 - Bible Gateway. /////. There are 62 Bible Versions listed don’t you think at least one would agree with your version of Romans 1:26 if there was any merit to what you claim the original means?

 

[RLT63]

Greek: dia touto paredoken (3SAAI) autous o theos eis pathe atimias; ai te gar theleiai autonmetellaxan ten phusiken chresin eis ten para phusin ///// Romans 1:26 - Bible Gateway ////. Romans 1:27 - Bible Gateway

Romans 1:26 Greek Text Analysis

biblehub.com

 

[TinMan]

I don’t want it to be anything other than what it actually says. I think you want it to be what you prefer

yet you reject out of hand what it actually says.

 

[TinMan]

Greek: dia touto paredoken (3SAAI) autous o theos eis pathe atimias; ai te gar theleiai autonmetellaxan ten phusiken chresin eis ten para phusin ///// Romans 1:26 - Bible Gateway ////. Romans 1:27 - Bible Gateway

 

[RLT63]

yet you reject out of hand what it actually says.

No I reject what you claim it means. Over 60 different translations of the Bible and none of them remotely compares to your version of Romans 1:26. And I posted the Greek with links to each word, so anyone can see what it actually says.

 

[RLT63]

 

[RLT63]

No I reject what you claim it means. Over 60 different translations of the Bible and none of them remotely compares to your version of Romans 1:26.

Romans 1:26 notes from the NET Bible. tn Grk “for their females exchanged the natural function for that which is contrary to nature.” The term χρῆσις(crhsi") has the force of “sexual relations” here (L&N 23.65).

 

[RLT63]

What evidence?


Lets test that out -

It is said that Paul coined the word arsenokoites by combining two separate words arsen and koite from the Septuagint because his audience would have no reference or understanding of homosexuality. The ancient Greeks clearly understood the concept and didn’t have to make up words to discuss it either.

The phrase from the Septuagint being abused is: "kai meta arsenos ou koimêthêsê koitên gynaikos bdelygma gar estin"

Breaking this down:

The greek "Kai" is "and", and "meta" is is usually translated as "with".

"arsenos" means "male" (as opposed to "man" ["andros"]).

"koimethese" roughly means "the same as".

"koiten" here means something more than just a bed (kaioh) Koiten specifically means "marriage bed".

"gyno" means "woman" [as in "gynacology"], but here the specific word is gynaikos idiomatically refer to "wife", as in "my woman".

"bdelygma" means "ritually impure" not abomination. "To'ebah" is the word for abomination. Remember isn't sin "to'ebah" doesn't mean sin, (zimah). To enter the temple or engage in rituals required a man to ritually cleansed.

So we have: A (sanctified) male should not bring a sexual partner (no specified gender) to his wife's bed for sex, doing so makes him ritually impure.

Notes from the NET Bible Leviticus 20:13. tn Heb “[as the] lyings of a woman.” The specific reference here is to homosexual intercourse between males.

 

[RLT63]

Where do these rules come from? From what are points deducted?

It doesn’t matter team A has an insurmountable lead.

 

[RLT63]

Romans 1:26 Greek Text Analysis

biblehub.com

26

◄ Romans 1:26 ►

Text Analysis Go to Parallel Greek Strong's Greek English Morphology 1223[e] Διὰ Dia Because of Prep 3778[e] τοῦτο touto this DPro-ANS 3860[e] παρέδωκεν paredōken gave up V-AIA-3S 846 [e] αὐτοὺς autous them PPro-AM3P 3588[e] ὁ ho - Art-NMS 2316[e] Θεὸς Theos God N-NMS 1519[e] εἰς eis to Prep 3806[e] πάθη pathē passions N-ANP 819 [e] ἀτιμίας· atimias of dishonor. N-GFS 3588[e] αἵ hai - Art-NFP 5037[e] τε te Even Conj 1063[e] γὰρ gar for Conj 2338[e] θήλειαι thēleiai females Adj-NFP 846 [e] αὐτῶν autōn of them PPro-GM3P 3337[e] μετήλλαξαν metēllaxan changed V-AIA-3P 3588[e] τὴν tēn the Art-AFS 5446[e] φυσικὴν physikēn natural Adj-AFS 5540[e] χρῆσιν chrēsin use N-AFS 1519[e] εἰς eis into Prep 3588[e] τὴν tēn that Art-AFS 3844[e] παρὰ para contrary to Prep 5449[e] φύσιν, physin nature. N-AFS

 

[TinMan]

Notes from the NET Bible Leviticus 20:13. tn Heb “[as the] lyings of a woman.” The specific reference here is to homosexual intercourse between males.

and the Septuagint, doesn't say that.

 

[RLT63]

and the Septuagint, doesn't say that.

Leviticus 20:13
view lexical information.
Lev 20:12Lev 20Lev 20:14
2532


kai
καὶ
And
Conjunction
3739


hos
ὃς
who
Pronoun, Relative, Nominative Singular Masculine
302


an
ἂν
ever
Participleicle
2837


koimēthē
κοιμηθῇ
should have bedded
Verb, Aorist Passive Subjective 3rd Singular
3326


meta
μετὰ
with
Preposition
730


arsenos
ἄρσενος
a male
Adjective, Genitive Singular Neuter
2845


koitēn
κοίτην
as the marriage-bed
Noun, Accusative Singular Feminine
1135


gynaikos
γυναικός,
of a woman,
Noun, Genitive Singular Feminine
946


bdelygma
βδέλυγμα
an abomination
Noun, Accusative Singular Neuter
4160


epoiēsan
ἐποίησαν
did
Verb, Aorist Active Indicative 3rd Plural
297


amphoteroi
ἀμφότεροι·
both;
Adjective, Nominative Plural Masculine
2288




to death

2289


thanatousthōsan
θανατούσθωσαν,
let them be put to death!
Verb, Present Middle Imperative 3rd Plural

 

[Lambano]

he phrase from the Septuagint being abused is: "kai meta arsenos ou koimêthêsê koitên gynaikos bdelygma gar estin"

Breaking this down:

The greek "Kai" is "and", and "meta" is is usually translated as "with".

"arsenos" means "male" (as opposed to "man" ["andros"]).

"koimethese" roughly means "the same as".

"koiten" here means something more than just a bed (kaioh) Koiten specifically means "marriage bed".

"gyno" means "woman" [as in "gynacology"], but here the specific word is gynaikos idiomatically refer to "wife", as in "my woman".

"bdelygma" means "ritually impure" not abomination. "To'ebah" is the word for abomination. Remember isn't sin "to'ebah" doesn't mean sin, (zimah). To enter the temple or engage in rituals required a man to ritually cleansed.

So we have: A (sanctified) male should not bring a sexual partner (no specified gender) to his wife's bed for sex, doing so makes him ritually impure.

You missed a couple of words that make a big difference in the translation:

καὶ ὃς ἂν κοιμηθῇ μετὰ ἄρσενος κοίτην γυναικός βδέλυγμα ἐποίησαν

"hos" ("he whosoever", with the subsequent "an") is singular-nominative-masculine, so "he whosoever" (masculine) is the subject of the sentence, not "arsenos". "koite", from which we get the word "coitus", means sexual intercourse; see Strong's definition "c". The immediate context of Leviticus 20:10-21 is about sexual relations and peeping at naked relatives, so it is safe to conclude "c" is the correct definition. "Male" and "wife" are in the genitive case, which corresponds to possessives in English. And "bdelugma" means something disgusting as though with a foul stench; again, see Strong's definition.

So, a better translation would be:

"If he whosoever goes to bed with coitus of a male as of a wife, they have done something disgusting."

Whether this applies to oral sex between males is another topic. And it doesn't say a thing about lesbians.

 

[Lambano]

What I find more interesting about the Romans 1:26-27 reference is the immediate context of Romans 1:21-24:

21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their reasonings, and their senseless hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and they exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible mankind, of birds, four-footed animals, and crawling creatures. 24 Therefore God gave them up to vile impurity in the lusts of their hearts...28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to an unfit mind, to do those things that are not proper.

What I see here is that our screwed-up, confused sexuality (along with all the other things in verses 28-31) are God's ordained consequences in this world for ignoring Him, and for worshipping idols of our own making. We're being punished.

This isn't the narrative we were taught. But this is what it says.

But then, why don't we get better when we turn to God? Why are we still screwed-up and confused and angry and hateful and disobedient and greedy and selfish and arrogant and...? I don't understand.