Imagine a World with no Christians!

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

More than you.
And grammar changes from time to time. And from place to place.
Especially in the ancient word.

hahaha! your responses show that you don't know Greek grammar!

 

[James Macbeth]

Without wanting to sound offensive, does anyone have any idea what James Macbeth is on about? κοιμάω is very well attested in secular dictionaries, and its use is all over Classical Greek, the Papyri, the Septuagint, And the New Testament. The repeated use of that particular declension would be irrelevant. I've read through this thread a few times and I can't even make heads or tails of his argument. :

κοιμηθησόμεθα

Is the whole word.
We're not debating what it means.
But a textual variant between the Latin and Greek text.
Saint Jerome did not use that Greek word.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Without wanting to sound offensive, does anyone have any idea what James Macbeth is on about? κοιμάω is very well attested in secular dictionaries, and its use is all over Classical Greek, the Papyri, the Septuagint, And the New Testament. The repeated use of that particular declension would be irrelevant. I've read through this thread a few times and I can't even make heads or tails of his argument. :

this guy James has not a clue about Greek or teaxtual studies. He pretends to "know", and only fools himself!

 

[James Macbeth]

hahaha! your responses show that you don't know Greek grammar!

Ok. Let say you know Greek better than I do. Good.
Now explain why Saint Jerome went with a different word? Explain the difference.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

κοιμηθησόμεθα

Is the whole word.
We're not debating what it means.
But a textual variant between the Latin and Greek text.
Saint Jerome did not use that Greek word.

here is a news flash for you

The New Testament was completed in the FIRST century AD. Jerome lived in the FOURTH.

The New Testament is Originally in GREEK, Jerome's Vulgate is in Latin!

 

[James Macbeth]

this guy James has not a clue about Greek or teaxtual studies. He pretends to "know", and only fools himself!

Please go to the University of Athens and tell them what you know.

 

[James Macbeth]

here is a news flash for you

The New Testament was completed in the FIRST century AD. Jerome lived in the FOURTH.

The New Testament is Originally in GREEK, Jerome's Vulgate is in Latin!

Avoiding the question... attackimg me, means you got nothing.

 

[Hidden In Him]

κοιμηθησόμεθα

Is the whole word.

It is merely a declension. What are you talking about "κοιμηθησόμεθα is the whole word"?

We're not debating what it means.

If we are not debating what it means then what are we discussing it for?

But a textual variant between the Latin and Greek text.

There are no textual variants in the Greek, aside from the presence of μένω, which you are not discussing here.

Saint Jerome did not use that Greek word.

By what argument do you justify casting aside all Greek texts of the New Testament in favor of Jerome? I read your repeated paragraph about the conquest of Corinth, but I cannot make sense of your argument.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Now explain why Saint Jerome went with a different word? Explain the difference.

now that you are asking, here it is. there are 4 major variants for 1 Cor 15:51

1 οὐ κοιμηθησόμεθα, πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα, which has the greater majority of textual evidence, Greek and Latin, including Jerome

2. οὐ κοιμηθησόμεθα, οὐ πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα, which has the sole support of the Papyri P46 Greek mss

3. κοιμηθησόμεθα, οὐ πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα, which has the support of Origen in the Greek, and mostly Latin, including Jerome

4. ἀναστησόμεθα, οὐ πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα, almost only Latin support

 

[Hidden In Him]

In 146 BC, Rome declared war on the Achaean League and, after victories over league forces in the summer of that year, the Romans under Lucius Mummius besieged and captured Corinth. When he entered the city, Mummius killed all the men and sold the women and children into slavery before burning the city, for which he was given the cognomen Achaicus as the conqueror of the Achaean League.[53] There is archeological evidence of some minimal habitation in the years afterwards, but Corinth remained largely deserted until Julius Caesar refounded the city as Colonia Laus Iulia Corinthiensis (‘colony of Corinth in honour of Julius’) in 44 BC, shortly before his assassination. At this time, an amphitheatre was built. (37.909824°N 22.892078°E )

Under the Romans, Corinth was rebuilt as a major city in Southern Greece or Achaia. It had a large[54] mixed population of Romans, Greeks, and Jews. The city was an important locus for activities of the imperial cult, and both Temple E[55] and the Julian Basilica[56] have been suggested as locations of imperial cult activity.

Ah, your quote is referring to a BC event, not an AD one. But I still fail to see the significance. How are you saying this event relates to your argument, in plain terms?

 

[James Macbeth]

It is merely a declension. What are you talking about "κοιμηθησόμεθα is the whole word"?


If we are not debating what it means then what are we discussing it for?


There are no textual variants in the Greek, aside from the presence of μένω, which you are not discussing here.


By what argument do you justify casting aside all Greek texts of the New Testament in favor of Jerome? I read your repeated paragraph about the conquest of Corinth, and you are discussing an event that happened decades after 1st Corinthians was written. I cannot make sense of your argument.

Who said all? You not me. Focus.

Next reread it, the contest happened before not after.

Focus on this one difference.

κοιμηθησόμεθα and please go to the University of Athens and tell them what you know. I can tell you the professors name of Greek history.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

There are no textual variants in the Greek

incorrect

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Please go to the University of Athens and tell them what you know.

what I know is posted openly on here. you can give this link to the professor at the University of Athens, who might learn a thing or two!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Who said all? You not me. Focus.

Then what Greek text of the New Testament are you honoring?

this guy James has not a clue about Greek or teaxtual studies. He pretends to "know", and only fools himself!

I think we're being trolled, LoL, but at least he's entertaining.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

κοιμηθησόμεθα and please go to the University of Athens and tell them what you know. I can tell you the professors name of Greek history.

they are WRONG!

 

[James Macbeth]

Ah, your quote is referring to a BC event, not an AD one. But I still fail to see the significance. How are you saying this event relates to your argument, in plain terms?

Jerome went with a different word. Why? The letters were better in Latin.
He saw a difference and picked one over the other.
Why would Saint Paul write to Romans in Greek when he could speak any language he wanted.
Why did Jerome pick the Latin over the Greek here in this place.

 

[James Macbeth]

Then what Greek text of the New Testament are you honoring?


I think we're being trolled, LoL, but at least he's entertaining.

Focus, just this one verse, not the whole Bible.

 

[Hidden In Him]

incorrect

Ok, I just read the following post. If I may, where are you getting that source material from? Aside from reference to P46, you are not citing a NT text or fragment, but only their parallels in Latin or the Fathers.

now that you are asking, here it is. there are 4 major variants for 1 Cor 15:51

1 οὐ κοιμηθησόμεθα, πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα, which has the greater majority of textual evidence, Greek and Latin, including Jerome

2. οὐ κοιμηθησόμεθα, οὐ πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα, which has the sole support of the Papyri P46 Greek mss

3. κοιμηθησόμεθα, οὐ πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα, which has the support of Origen in the Greek, and mostly Latin, including Jerome

4. ἀναστησόμεθα, οὐ πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα, almost only Latin support

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Ok, I just read the following post. If I may, where are you getting that source material from? Aside from reference to P46, you are not citing a NT text or fragment, but only their parallels in Latin or the Fathers.

critical Greek New Testaments

 

[James Macbeth]

they are WRONG!

And where did you learn Greek? Bob's backyard Bible academy?