Is Dispensationalism a valid way to interpret scripture?

[CharismaticLady]

Oh, I think you knew what I was saying. You're just looking for a way to ridicule. You have to include the subject I was speaking of in the previous sentence...

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"Is there an example written anywhere in God's Word that declared any other than Christ Jesus as being without sin? No, there is none except Him that came in the flesh and was without sin.

So what... is the difference between a believer in God and His Son that doesn't sin vs. the wicked?"
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I'll word the idea another way so you can understand. Since only Jesus was ordained to be perfect without sin, then what is the difference between us as believers who still fall short, vs. the wicked non-believer? We both still sin, even as Apostle Paul showed at the end of Romans 7.

The Difference:
We who have believed on The Father through His Son Jesus Christ have forgiveness when we repent, at the first for sins that are past, and repentance per 1 John 1 for sins we may commit in the future. The wicked are not cleansed and forgiven by Jesus, and are doomed to perish if they do not repent. Likewise those who once believed on Jesus but fall away are doomed to perish with the wicked.

Me? You've already got that job covered. Okay that's the last barb shot in jest. Let's grow up, and be more loving. I just had to chuckle that you believe there is no such thing as a Christian who has been freed from sin. Many go to church all their lives and have never experienced being freed supernaturally from sin. We can't free ourselves, but all you have to do is repent of all sin, and if you mean it, then Jesus who knows the heart will baptize you in the Holy Spirit and give you power. Many churches never teach on the power of the Holy Spirit for today, but teach on it like a history lesson about the Day of Pentecost. Jesus is still on the outside of their hearts knocking.

I see you hold to the old powerless theory of repent, forgiveness of all past sins, sin again, repent, cleanse, sin again, repent, cleanse, sin again, repent, cleanse etc, etc, etc. No! This is how it is written. Sin all your life, truly repent from a life of sin, cleansed of all your past sins, given POWER to not sin again in the present or future. It is how Jesus didn't sin. He gives us His Own Sinless Spirit, the Spirit of Christ. Romans 8:9 Jesus had the seed of the Father, and now we can have it to. Then you are no longer a sinner, you are an heir of God, and joint heirs with Christ.

You should know better than to use Romans 7 with me as an impressive text. I've already explained Romans 7 is the last chapter about the life of those under the LAW, which kept us UNTIL CHRIST. Our chapter is chapter 8 - life in the Spirit. Romans 7 vs. Romans 8 is LAW vs. SPIRIT.

 

[CharismaticLady]

This has already been well covered in Galatians 5 with walking in The Spirit according to Apostle Paul's teaching there, not man's teaching, which wrongly equates Paul's walking in The Spirit with just having Faith in Jesus. Paul gave specifics of walking by our flesh, or walking by The Spirit, and described the fruits of each. He wasn't vague like men's doctrines do.

I wrote this post in response to your mocking me as if I didn't know that only our PAST sins are forgiven. That is what I teach, so, YES, I know that! What I don't teach is we are forgiven our past, present and future sins as many do. That is unscriptural, and denies the power of the Spirit. What I think you meant though, was that after our past sins are forgiven, we will sin again and again, and each time we must confess them. That is not what 1 John 1:9 means. If a person does that, then they are walking in darkness, not ever been born again of the Spirit. It is your first confession that cleanses all our past sins, and then you start walking in the supernatural light of God with new divine desires of righteousness. IOW, 1 John 1:9 is your initial cleansing of all sin to become a Christian. That is in context with 1 John 1:8 that is a self-righteous person of the law, trying to be righteous without the Spirit - not born again.

Can you accept any of this or is it still foreign to you? That's the problem with denominations. There aren't many of us out there teaching this simple, but profound and scriptural truth. Christians that have never been born again, have to justify their position of unrighteousness that constantly needs confessing.

 

[CharismaticLady]

It's not me, it's you that doesn't understand, because you see the 1 John 1:6,8,10 verses as a contradiction to 1 John 3:9, so you try to reconcile it and wrongly assign the 1 John 1:6,8,10 verses to a non-believer, even as you yourself had said in an earlier post (#230).

Did you learn that false idea that 1 John 1:6, 8, & 10 is about the unbeliever from some preacher, or did you come up with that idea yourself?

No one teaches this that I know of. But Marks posts seem in line with this truth. But I learned Semitic writing styles of the apostles. Most westerners on the globe think with Greek style mentality, but the apostles wrote in the Hebrew style. Whenever you see contrasts (the name of this particular style) they are opposites. In the case of 1 John 1 it is the contrast of those in the light, and those still in darkness starting with verse 5, God is light. Chapter 3 is the same style, but you need to look at the contrast between thoughts. It isn't as perfectly numbered, like chapter 1 happens to be. Another contrast is Romans 7 vs. Romans 8

Another Hebrew style is parallelism. They make a clarifying statement by saying the same thing twice in two different ways. Acts 4:33 is a great example of the true meaning of grace away from the flawed unmerited favor to the power of God.

33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

The misinterpretation of grace including "unmerited" denotes overlooked, and many denominations have turned the true grace of God into lawlessness/lasciviousness/licentiousness.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Is there an example written anywhere in God's Word that declared any other than Christ Jesus as being without sin? No, there is none except Him that came in the flesh and was without sin.

What you don't understand is the power given us by Jesus. Yes, Jesus did not sin. What you don't know is we are given the SPIRIT OF CHRIST. His power over sin is given to us! Did you know that when we are born again of the Spirit, our spirit or nature becomes divine?

 

[Davy]

You should know better than to use Romans 7 with me as an impressive text. I've already explained Romans 7 is the last chapter about the life of those under the LAW, which kept us UNTIL CHRIST. Our chapter is chapter 8 - life in the Spirit. Romans 7 vs. Romans 8 is LAW vs. SPIRIT.

Romans 7 is a Chapter those in the Grace Movement don't like, so naturally they argue against it.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The only contradiction I see here is what is in your mind

You are right, it started in my mind seeing the contradiction and wondering why. That is what the Beareans did and they were honored. Others figure why study when the guy I'm following has already studied for me. Too bad Martin Luther was not a scholar.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Romans 7 is a Chapter those in the Grace Movement don't like, so naturally they argue against it.

You've got it backwards. I argue against it and I'm the farthest thing from the liberal Grace Movement. I'm very surprised you are not in it, as what I argue with you is what I argue with them.

 

[Davy]

I wrote this post in response to your mocking me as if I didn't know that only our PAST sins are forgiven. That is what I teach, so, YES, I know that! What I don't teach is we are forgiven our past, present and future sins as many do. That is unscriptural, and denies the power of the Spirit. What I think you meant though, was that after our past sins are forgiven, we will sin again and again, and each time we must confess them. That is not what 1 John 1:9 means. If a person does that, then they are walking in darkness, not ever been born again of the Spirit. It is your first confession that cleanses all our past sins, and then you start walking in the supernatural light of God with new divine desires of righteousness. IOW, 1 John 1:9 is your initial cleansing of all sin to become a Christian. That is in context with 1 John 1:8 that is a self-righteous person of the law, trying to be righteous without the Spirit - not born again.

Can you accept any of this or is it still foreign to you? That's the problem with denominations. There aren't many of us out there teaching this simple, but profound and scriptural truth. Christians that have never been born again, have to justify their position of unrighteousness that constantly needs confessing.

You're not distinguishing between the habitual sinner really, though you seem to be trying.

The context of 1 John 1, the whole Chapter, is for the believer on Jesus Christ to repent to Him if they mess up. And to not deny that we still sin.

But it's obvious you are trying to philosophize your way around that Message by Apostle John.

 

[Davy]

What you don't understand is the power given us by Jesus. Yes, Jesus did not sin. What you don't know is we are given the SPIRIT OF CHRIST. His power over sin is given to us! Did you know that when we are born again of the Spirit, our spirit or nature becomes divine?

So now you think you can be your 'own' Christ?

Nah, you cannot. No matter how long you live, you will still mess up at times, simply because we can never... be our 'own' Christ. If that were so, then we would not need Jesus Christ and what He did on the cross for us.

 

[Enoch111]

What you don't understand is the power given us by Jesus. Yes, Jesus did not sin. What you don't know is we are given the SPIRIT OF CHRIST. His power over sin is given to us!

TRUE. But that DOES NOT result in sinless perfection for every Christian. Since the old nature ("the flesh") has not been eradicated, there is often a conflict between the Spirit and the flesh. See Galatians 5.

Did you know that when we are born again of the Spirit, our spirit or nature becomes divine?

FALSE. Only God's nature is divine. We are to be "conformed to the image of His Son".

 

[CharismaticLady]

You're not distinguishing between the habitual sinner really, though you seem to be trying.

The context of 1 John 1, the whole Chapter, is for the believer on Jesus Christ to repent to Him if they mess up. And to not deny that we still sin.

But it's obvious you are trying to philosophize your way around that Message by Apostle John.

The habitual sinner is a slave to sin and doesn't even belong to Christ. I'll let God deal with them when his angels cast them into the lake of fire.

What my passion is for are those who are supposedly inside the church, but their false doctrine is leading others astray. Their main problem is closed-mindedness, something I've never had since coming out of the SDA church. Before that, yes, I believed SDA had "the Truth." Since then I have never been a denominationalist again, and prayed to understand what God means through His apostles writing. He lead me to understand Semitic writing styles and Hebrew idioms, and that knowledge opened up the Scriptures and no scripture contradicted other scripture anymore. You are still stuck in lack of knowledge, and can't get past the first chapter of 1 John. It is a 5 chapter epistle. To understand the whole every verse must be read in context of the whole.

 

[CharismaticLady]

So now you think you can be your 'own' Christ?

Nah, you cannot. No matter how long you live, you will still mess up at times, simply because we can never... be our 'own' Christ. If that were so, then we would not need Jesus Christ and what He did on the cross for us.

I abide in Him and His Words abide in me. I have become a partaker of the divine nature. Have you?

 

[CharismaticLady]

TRUE. But that DOES NOT result in sinless perfection for every Christian. Since the old nature ("the flesh") has not been eradicated, there is often a conflict between the Spirit and the flesh. See Galatians 5.

FALSE. Only God's nature is divine. We are to be "conformed to the image of His Son".

False? I thought you were one who knew the Bible! Oh well.

2 Peter 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

What even the born again of the Spirit Christian still has is free will. Even though through the baptism of the Holy Spirit we are partakers of the divine nature, it is possible to acquire a take for your own vomit. But who would want to? A true Christian does not want to grieve or quench the Spirit. They enjoy a personal relationship with God unlike no other, and believe Paul that sin will interrupt that flow and growth. It is easy to shake off temptations with Jesus holding your hand. People think it is hard to fight the flesh, something I can't understand. I don't have a taste for lakes of fire.

 

[Davy]

You are right, it started in my mind seeing the contradiction and wondering why. That is what the Beareans did and they were honored. Others figure why study when the guy I'm following has already studied for me. Too bad Martin Luther was not a scholar.

But you blamed the contradiction in your mind on me, when it is with something in your mind you have misunderstood from Apostle John.

Once again, the whole 1 John 1 Chapter is written to the believer on Christ Jesus. That does not conflict with the 1 John 3:4-12 Message, simply because it's easy to identify one who sins like Cain that doesn't care, like the Isaiah 5:18 example I gave. This is why Apostle John also gave us the contrast...

1 John 3:12
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
KJV

John even went to the heart of the matter, i.e., the ways of the children of light vs. the ways of the children of darkness, both examples having been established early on in Genesis 3 & 4.

I can imagine how you might struggle with this also...

John 8:39-47
39 They answered and said unto Him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill Me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to Him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love Me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of Myself, but He sent Me.

43 Why do ye not understand My speech? even because ye cannot hear My word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe Me not.

46 Which of you convinceth Me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe Me?

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
KJV

 

[CharismaticLady]

But you blamed the contradiction in your mind on me, when it is with something in your mind you have misunderstood from Apostle John.

Open your mind.

Once again, the whole 1 John 1 Chapter is written to the believer on Christ Jesus. That does not conflict with the 1 John 3:4-12 Message, simply because it's easy to identify one who sins like Cain that doesn't care, like the Isaiah 5:18 example I gave. This is why Apostle John also gave us the contrast...

1 John 3:12
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
KJV

John even went to the heart of the matter, i.e., the ways of the children of light vs. the ways of the children of darkness, both examples having been established early on in Genesis 3 & 4.

I can imagine how you might struggle with this also...

John 8:39-47
39 They answered and said unto Him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill Me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to Him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love Me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of Myself, but He sent Me.

43 Why do ye not understand My speech? even because ye cannot hear My word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.



45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe Me not.

46 Which of you convinceth Me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe Me?

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Or don't.

 

[Davy]

You've got it backwards. I argue against it and I'm the farthest thing from the liberal Grace Movement. I'm very surprised you are not in it, as what I argue with you is what I argue with them.

Crazy twist you just did.

You argue against the need for repentance of future sin, and then claim you're not (in a previous post), and then directly claim you argue against the Romans 7 Chapter, while not being associated with the Grace Movement. I don't think your mind is in the right place right now.

 

[Davy]

The habitual sinner is a slave to sin and doesn't even belong to Christ. I'll let God deal with them when his angels cast them into the lake of fire.

What my passion is for are those who are supposedly inside the church, but their false doctrine is leading others astray. Their main problem is closed-mindedness, something I've never had since coming out of the SDA church. Before that, yes, I believed SDA had "the Truth." Since then I have never been a denominationalist again, and prayed to understand what God means through His apostles writing. He lead me to understand Semitic writing styles and Hebrew idioms, and that knowledge opened up the Scriptures and no scripture contradicted other scripture anymore. You are still stuck in lack of knowledge, and can't get past the first chapter of 1 John. It is a 5 chapter epistle. To understand the whole every verse must be read in context of the whole.

It's obvious to me that you are still struggling to understand the Scriptures. Knowledge of Hebrew and Greek can help, but without The Holy Spirit it won't happen.

Not only have I gone past the 1 John 1 Message by Apostle John, I also showed you how he gave the example of the righteous vs. the wicked with the example of Cain and Abel in 1 John 3, and even by our Lord Jesus in John 8.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You argue against the need for repentance of future sin

No I argue against sinning in the future in the first place. Those who have received the power of the Holy Spirit, know what I'm talking about, but the carnal man cannot understand as they are still in a battle with the flesh everyday. And those who are in that state will never inherit the Kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

 

[CharismaticLady]

It's obvious to me that you are still struggling to understand the Scriptures. Knowledge of Hebrew and Greek can help, but without The Holy Spirit it won't happen.

I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit on February 9, 1977 at 8:00 pm. The next day I noticed all desire to sin was gone.

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the ccorruption that is in the world through lust.

 

[Davy]

I abide in Him and His Words abide in me. I have become a partaker of the divine nature. Have you?

I only see you as a believer on Jesus that will ever... fall short, and will continue in the law of sin in your fleshy members until you die, like Apostle Paul taught in Romans 7.

I'm familiar with the occult fraternity false teaching that we can become our 'own' Christ. It's their false idea you are pushing, because you will never, ever... be even a little Christ. Christ Consciousness is a false doctrine, even the original sin by Satan himself in wanting to be The GOD, and the sin he tempted Adam and Eve with in God's Garden.