Is The Rapture A Literal Event?

[marks]

I think it is because we are far more distant from Him at the current time, so the Jesus most people are seeing today is a minimized version.

What does this <above> mean?

Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever.

There are gifts and ministries of the Holy Spirit, and I am not cessationist, mind you. There are also signs and wonders, something very different.

Signs and wonders will return. But we need to be clear who will be doing them. 2 Thess 2.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You don't think we are living in a time when the vast majority of what calls itself "Christianity" is very lukewarm and superficial?

I don't concern myself too much on this point. We live in the world in which we live. The parable of the sower tells me what I need to know. And it tells me how to understand the other parables also.

"Do you not understand this parable? Then how will you understand any of them?" In the parable of the Sower is what we need to interpret the others. Scriptural authority in all things.

Much love!

 

[charity]

Hi sister. This is the typical Cessationist position. My reply usually begins, however, by asking why He wouldn't desire to confirm the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ still today. Is He not still interested in confirming the word with signs and wonders following to those who have their doubts about if the message has any credibility in the modern age?

Hello @Hidden In Him,

The signs were for Israel, to bring them to repentance, and to acknowledge the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah and King. They were also a foretaste of millennial blessings, as part of the New Covenant, given for the same purpose. However, when Israel failed to repent, and went away into blindness and unbelief, the signs which were so much part of the witness during the Acts period, ceased; and the new covenant, and millennial blessing are now in abeyance until a yet future day.

The later epistles of Paul, written by Divine revelation, after the failure of Israel to repent: of Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon, contain no record of any further miracle or sign, or expectation of them.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Hidden In Him]

I don't concern myself too much on this point. We live in the world in which we live.

I think this may be at the heart of our differences, marks. I'm not one to take the approach of acceptance, or of "waiting for doors to open." I'm more the type to go find a sledgehammer and reduce the door to scrap metal and splinters, LoL.

Just saying, we have such a different perspective when it comes to this that it would be no small wonder if we never did quite see eye to eye.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The signs were for Israel, to bring them to repentance, and to acknowledge the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah and King. They were also a foretaste of millennial blessings, as part of the New Covenant, given for the same purpose. However, when Israel failed to repent, and went away into blindness and unbelief, the signs which were so much part of the witness during the Acts period, ceased; and the new covenant, and millennial blessing are now in abeyance until a yet future day.

The later epistles of Paul, written by Divine revelation, after the failure of Israel to repent: of Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon, contain no record of any further miracle or sign, or expectation of them.

But this position is virtually synonymous with saying Christ is not really that interested in reaching the Nations anymore. I know that's not something you believe... or is it?

 

[charity]

But this position is virtually synonymous with saying Christ is not really that interested in reaching the Nations anymore. I know that's not something you believe... or is it?

Hello @Hidden In Him,

Of course not.

However it was Israel that required a sign.

'For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God,
it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
For the Jews require a sign,
and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
But we preach Christ crucified,
unto the Jews a stumblingblock,
and unto the Greeks foolishness;
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks,
Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.'
(1 Corinthians 1:21-24)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hello @Hidden In Him,

Of course not.

However it was Israel that required a sign.

'For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God,
it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
For the Jews require a sign,
and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
But we preach Christ crucified,
unto the Jews a stumblingblock,
and unto the Greeks foolishness;
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks,
Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.'
(1 Corinthians 1:21-24)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes, and the Greeks required wisdom. You think most of society today requires wisdom rather than signs? Most people today hardly even know what wisdom is, LoL, and they certainly are not searching for the kind of wisdom the Greeks were. They wanted to know how a perfect kingdom could be established on earth. Most people today want to know where to go to get the best cheeseburger, pizza, Mexican or Italian food, LoL.

 

[marks]

I think this may be at the heart of our differences, marks. I'm not one to take the approach of acceptance, or of "waiting for doors to open." I'm more the type to go find a sledgehammer and reduce the door to scrap metal and splinters, LoL.

Just saying, we have such a different perspective when it comes to this that it would be no small wonder if we never did quite see eye to eye.

I'm not sure what you mean here, I was just wanting to say I don't try to sort out who is and who isn't of those who profess Christianity. I just want to be clear about Who God is, and Who Christ is, and who we are in Him, and what He's done for us. No matter who I'm addressing, if they care to listen.

Hidden in Him, you intrigue me. Sometimes it seems we're just all along on the same page, other times, well, you intrigue me!

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

I'm not sure what you mean here, I was just wanting to say I don't try to sort out who is and who isn't of those who profess Christianity. I just want to be clear about Who God is, and Who Christ is, and who we are in Him, and what He's done for us. No matter who I'm addressing, if they care to listen.

Hidden in Him, you intrigue me. Sometimes it seems we're just all along on the same page, other times, well, you intrigue me!

Much love!

LoL! I've heard it put much worse, so I'll take that as a compliment : )

Stick around. There's a lot more to me than meets the eye, and we need a lot more good members like yourself.

 

[marks]

Hello @Hidden In Him,

The signs were for Israel, to bring them to repentance, and to acknowledge the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah and King. They were also a foretaste of millennial blessings, as part of the New Covenant, given for the same purpose. However, when Israel failed to repent, and went away into blindness and unbelief, the signs which were so much part of the witness during the Acts period, ceased; and the new covenant, and millennial blessing are now in abeyance until a yet future day.

The later epistles of Paul, written by Divine revelation, after the failure of Israel to repent: of Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon, contain no record of any further miracle or sign, or expectation of them.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Chris,

Like for instance that Paul told Timothy "Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick." What? Abandoned him because he was sick?

Like you say, signs and wonders, for the Jews, to authenticate Messiah, and the Kingdom.

Much love!

 

[marks]

LoL! I've heard it put much worse, so I'll take that as a compliment : )

Stick around. There's a lot more to me than meets the eye, and we need a lot more good members like yourself.

It is a compliment!

 

[marks]

Yes, and the Greeks required wisdom. You think most of society today requires wisdom rather than signs? Most people today hardly even know what wisdom is, LoL, and they certainly are not searching for the kind of wisdom the Greeks were. They wanted to know how a perfect kingdom could be established on earth. Most people today want to know where to go to get the best cheeseburger, pizza, Mexican or Italian food, LoL.

Ah, but those whom the Spirit is calling . . . speak to these! Wait! We don't always know who they are. They act like they just want a good pizza. We'll have to try sharing with everyone!

Seriously. Jews require a sign, and Greeks require wisdom. Jesus said the only sign would be the sign of Jonah. Scandal to the Jews, and foolishness to the Greeks.

But both power and wisdom to those who believe.

See the flow?

Signs are for the Jews.

In the coming time, lying signs and wonders will begin, empowered by satan. Notice, these signs will be to all the world, ie gentiles, Greeks.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Stick around.

I'm really liking it here, and I'm gaining for it.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I'm really liking it here, and I'm gaining for it.

Glad to hear it : )

In the coming time, lying signs and wonders will begin, empowered by satan. Notice, these signs will be to all the world, ie gentiles, Greeks.

I may need to let this conversation go in a bit (off the beaten path, and deserving it's own thread), but my beginning question to this is, Why would the Lord allow the Nations to receive all sorts of lying signs and wonders in the coming time, but not present them with any true ones? Scripture says the harvest is the end of the age!

 

[charity]

Glad to hear it : )


I may need to let this conversation go in a bit (off the beaten path, and deserving it's own thread), but my beginning question to this is, Why would the Lord allow the Nations to receive all sorts of lying signs and wonders in the coming time, but not present them with any true ones? Scripture says the harvest is the end of the age!

Hello there, @Hidden In Him,

'And then shall that Wicked be revealed,
whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth,
and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan
with all power and signs and lying wonders,
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.'
(2 Thessalonians 2:8-12)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[marks]

Why would the Lord allow the Nations to receive all sorts of lying signs and wonders in the coming time, but not present them with any true ones?

Our walk is by faith, not by sight.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Glad to hear it : )


I may need to let this conversation go in a bit (off the beaten path, and deserving it's own thread), but my beginning question to this is, Why would the Lord allow the Nations to receive all sorts of lying signs and wonders in the coming time, but not present them with any true ones? Scripture says the harvest is the end of the age!

There will be true signs also, but the world will hate and reject them.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Our walk is by faith, not by sight.

Much love!

Yes, but to the unbelieving, in the end-times just as in NT times, their walk will begin by seeing the wondrous works of God : )

There will be true signs also, but the world will hate and reject them.

Good word! And with that I will bid you adieu! Gotta get off the computer for awhile.

Peace!

 

[marks]

in the end-times just as in NT times, their walk will begin by seeing the wondrous works of God : )

Adieu!

And when you return, should you wish, I'm interested in where you are reading about this in the Bible. I'd like to look at it.

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

And then shall that Wicked be revealed,
whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth,
and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan
with all power and signs and lying wonders,
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.'
(2 Thessalonians 2:8-12)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes, my dear. But your position in quoting this passage presumes that God has already written off the world and closed the door. As I was telling marks, the harvest is the end of the age, so we have a lot of people to reach yet. And lying signs and wonders will indeed come to the wicked, but this does not preclude the Lord manifesting HIS power in turn for those destined for salvation. It says in Matthew that the lying signs will be powerful to deceive the very elect, but these will not deceive them. Is this because they have dismissed all supernatural manifestations as of Satan, or because the church performed "even greater works" than the Lord Himself during the end-time, to bring forth the harvest : )

I think the latter, but that's me.