John 3.16: Simple Gospel truth and profound theology

[farouk]

You hold to a falsehood friend.

If we can't proclaim the Gospel freely, how do we know to whom we should proclaim the Gospel?

 

[brightfame52]

If we can't proclaim the Gospel freely, how do we know to whom we should proclaim the Gospel?

The Gospel is proclaimed freely.

 

[brightfame52]

The World in Jn 3:16 that God so loved, this resulted in some having eternal life and believing in Him Jn 3:16

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

That therefore is the World of His Sheep whom God gave to Him since He says only of them He gives Eternal Life Jn 10:27-29

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.18

 

[Aunty Jane]

Its really sad to see "Christians" disagreeing so vehemently over this very important scripture....

It says it all by itself.....no interpretation or arguments needed.

ASV "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life."

ESV "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

Mounce Interlinear “For this is how God loved · the world: he gave his one and only Son · that everyone who believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

NASB “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life."

No matter what translation you use, two words stand out to me.....apart from the love shown in offering the precious gift of God's son, the words "believe" and "perish" stand out.....why?...... because those who "believe" will not "perish" but those who don't, will.

What does it mean then to "believe"?
If we look at James 2:19 it says.... "You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder."
If the demons also "believe" then what does this imply? The word translated "believe" ("pisteuō") is the same in both verses.
So "believing" has to involve something more in John 3:16 than it does in James 2:19.....what is it?

Strongs defines "believe" ("pisteuō") as ....
"to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in"....how does the meaning change from one verse to the other?
"Believing" in Jesus as God's only son has to involve more than just acknowledging that truth.....the demons do that.
So what more is required of Christians?

I believe the same holds true of faith. There is having faith and demonstrating faith.....exercising it in tangible ways.
I can say that I "have" a dog, but if I said I was "exercising" the dog, what is the difference? I am actively doing something with my dog.
So we have to demonstrate our faith in more ways than mere words. We have to show God and the world that we are servants of Him and his Christ by the way we live our lives 24/7. By doing that we will avoid the penalty for NOT exercising faith in Christ's blood.

What is the penalty? We will "perish". What does this word mean? "apollymi" means "to destroy....

1. to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin".

We are talking about eternal death as opposed to eternal life here. Most people concentrate so hard on the first part of that scripture that they forget about the equally important second part. To perish is to be erased from existence....unworthy of the gift of life.....offered to all but not unconditionally.

This is all God has ever offered the human race...life or death....not heaven or hell.

 

[Jay Ross]

What does it mean then to "believe"?
If we look at James 2:19 it says.... "You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder."
If the demons also "believe" then what does this imply? The word translated "believe" ("pisteuō") is the same in both verses.
So "believing" has to involve something more in John 3:16 than it does in James 2:19.....what is it?

I am sorry James 2:19 and John 3:16, although they have the same Greek Root word embedded in the word(s) found in them that is translated as "Believe," The Greek words found in both verse are not the same Greek words, they are very different as can be seen below.



And can be seen in the three Greek words listed below from John 3:16 and James 2:19



We must go deeper that just the Greek Root word that is embedded in the three examples above. Just like the Latin roots, we must also consider how the root word in question is embedded within the word, under consideration, as well.

John 3:16: - 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

James 2:19: - 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe — and tremble!

Each of the three Greek words shown above have very different meanings and have been intentionally used by the authors.

The point that you have made is that we can know something, but unless we demonstrate our belief by actions, then we are no better than the demons who also know.

Shalom

 

[Aunty Jane]

Each of the three Greek words shown above have very different meanings and have been intentionally used by the authors.

The point that you have made is that we can know something, but unless we demonstrate our belief by actions, then we are no better than the demons who also know.

Yes.....simply “believing” that Jesus’ death guarantees salvation without living in a way that shows your obedience to Christ’s teachings, is rather pointless.

Expanding on James ch2 demonstrates this point...
“......someone will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith without works is useless?” (James 2:18-20)

For those who exercise faith in Christ’s blood and then demonstrate their faith by their actions, their “belief” will be rewarded.

Perhaps to illustrate we can use the warning of an impending natural disaster and how it impacts on different people. You can have those who take the warning seriously enough to follow through on that warning and take action to save themselves, and then there are those who acknowledge that there is a threat but that it won’t impact on them in a way that they cannot deal with. These will take no action in the mistaken notion that nothing bad will happen to them. But if that disaster took their life because they failed to act on the warning, who is to blame?

There is a warning in John 3:16 that no one seems to notice.....unless you take the necessary action to back up your belief in Christ, you will “perish”. As the saying goes...”talk is cheap”....we can say whatever we like, but unless we demonstrate by our actions that we truly “believe”, then what is the point?

Christianity is active, not simply a passive “belief”....or “once saved, always saved”.

 

[farouk]

@Goldie75 FYI....another thread I started...

(The discussion has lately gotten a bit involved, which was not my original intention...)

 

[brightfame52]

It is this same world of Sheep that God is not willing that any of them should perish but all should come to repentance and faith in Christ Jesus 2 Pet 3:9

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Cp

Jn 10:27-28

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

 

[brightfame52]

Lets look at 2 Pet 3:9

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Now ask ourselves according to scripture, who are those the God the Father is not willing that they should perish ? Isnt it all them which He gave to His Son ?

Jn 10:28-29

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Jn 6:37,39

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

 

[brightfame52]

A writer writes and I agree regarding John 3:16 and how its comprehended:

A critically important question which needs to be asked of those who hold to a false understanding of John 3:16, is ‘How is this verse, in particular, to be reconciled with John 17:23 where Jesus, praying to the Father concerning those that were given to Him, says:' “I in THEM, and Thou in Me, that THEY may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that Thou hast sent Me, and hast LOVED THEM, as Thou hast loved Me.” Here, Jesus is saying that the unity of love between the Father and the Son, and all those who are of the Father and the Son, would be evidence to the world that the Father has loved all those whom He has given to the Son—those who believed, and those who would believe, in Jesus (see Jn. 17:20). Again, we see a distinction made between those that are of the world, and those whom the Father has loved. If world did mean every individual in John 3:16, this verse in John 17 would have been a prime opportunity for Jesus to re-affirm that popular assumption. Yet Christ says NOTHING in John 17:23 of the Father’s alleged love for the world, but rather distinguishes those He does love from the world! This reaffirms the fact that Christ said nothing in John 3:16 pertaining to any universal love of God for all humanity. There is no explicit reference to any universal love of God, nor can any rightly infer such a love from that verse, or any other Scripture. The truth of God aligns with all Scripture, for all Scripture is the truth of God. The Lord Jesus only speaks of God’s love being FOR THOSE WHOM HE HAS GIVEN TO HIS SON. The Lord speaks voluminously of those whom the Father had given Him throughout the seventeenth chapter of the Gospel of John (see Jn. 17:2,6,9,11,12,24), but never a word about any alleged love for all individuals without exception is in the least bit traceable.https://www.godsonlygospel.com/for-god-so-lovedwho-part-22

In a nutshell if Jn 3:16 means God loved everyone in the world without exception, the distinction being made in Jn 17 made between the world and them God loves is meaningless !

 

[brightfame52]

We need to learn to think biblically to understand scriptures, for instance if Jn 3:16 meant that God loved every individual in the world without exception, why did Jesus He prays not for the world as a whole Jn 17:9 coupled with, why did God not give everyone to Christ to die for, as He gave some to Him Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

 

[brightfame52]

The world God so loved in Jn 3:16 wasnt everyone without exception, but the world of His Sons, the world of the sons of God, who John also identifies here 1 Jn 3:1

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

Jn 11:52

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.[throughout the whole world denoting gentiles]2

 

[brightfame52]

Those whom God Loves, Christ Loves, whom is God, they have an intimacy with them, like Christ so loved His Church that He gave Himself for it, and all of its members Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Yet Christ plainly says to some here that He never knew them Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

If this be so, He never at anytime knew them, which word denotes intimacy, they could not have ever been loved by Him, which therefore exclude them from the World God Loved in Jn 3:16 and the Church Christ Loved in Eph 5:25.

In Matt 7:23 the word never is important, its the adverb oudepote and means:

not even at any time, i.e. never at all:—neither at any time, never, nothing at any time.

There was never a time He knew them, therefore never a time He loved them !

 

[brightfame52]

Since in Johns writings and the need of consistency, there is a difference in the world of Jn 17:9,23 and the world of Jn 3:16 which the Father so loved, Jn 3:16 cannot be mean every individual without exception !

 

[brightfame52]

The World of Jn 3:16 is the World God loves, hence by giving His Son for it, He gives it life [spiritual/eternal] Jn 6:33

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life[spiritual/eternal] unto the world.

 

[brightfame52]

The subjects in Jn 3:16 are believing and having eternal life, that in and of itself denotes everyone without exception cannot be meant, because, eternal life in the Divine Purpose is restricted says Christ to as many as the Father has given the Son Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

The phrase " as many as" is confined to a certain definite number. So it is with those comprising the world of Jn 3:16, and Jn 3:17 !

 

[brightfame52]

Concerning the word whosoever in Jn 3:16 it should never be isolated, but must always be seen in conjunction with the word that follows it, ‘believeth’, as well as in its proper context. The context of John chapter 3, shows Jesus speaking with one of the religious rulers of the Jewish people, Nicodemus, who, along with all Israel, expected the Messiah would be sent for the Jews, and no other people. But the word ‘world’ and the ‘whosoever believeth’ out of that world is a reference to both Jews AND Gentiles—non-Jews. Jesus uses the word ‘world’ specifically to show that God’s elect, whom the Messiah was sent to save, do not come exclusively from the land of Israel, but are taken from among ALL nations (cf. Rev. 5:9). This matches perfectly with what was prophesied in John 11:51,52: “...that Jesus should die for that nation (Israel); and not for that nation only, but that also He should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad”https://www.godsonlygospel.com/for-god-so-lovedwho-part-23

 

[theefaith]

How much belief is enough?

how long must we keep believing?

 

[brightfame52]

Nicodemus believed that the Messiah’s mission was only for Israel. But here in John 3:16 the Lord says, ‘God so loved the world’. What does ‘world’ mean? Every single individual living on earth, including mountains, trees, rivers, sea, rocks, animals and everything in the world that you see? No. Remember Jesus is speaking to Nicodemus, how does a Jew, a ruler of Israel understand the meaning of ‘the world’. TO NICODEMUS ‘THE WORLD’ MEANS GENTILES!” What Nicodemus heard was ‘God so loved Gentiles, as well as Jews’. Was every Gentile intended? No, for John 11:51,52 and Acts 15:14 tell us that only the chosen Gentiles were the children of God, and, therefore, the loved ones chosen of God. The key to the proper, Biblical, understanding of John 3:16 is not to rely on one’s own comprehension of what the word ‘world’ means, not to allow oneself to be moved by a contemporary understanding of it, but to comprehend it, to be cognisant of it, in light of how Nicodemus understood it.https://www.godsonlygospel.com/for-god-so-lovedwho-part-23

 

[theefaith]

Nicodemus believed that the Messiah’s mission was only for Israel. But here in John 3:16 the Lord says, ‘God so loved the world’. What does ‘world’ mean? Every single individual living on earth, including mountains, trees, rivers, sea, rocks, animals and everything in the world that you see? No. Remember Jesus is speaking to Nicodemus, how does a Jew, a ruler of Israel understand the meaning of ‘the world’. TO NICODEMUS ‘THE WORLD’ MEANS GENTILES!” What Nicodemus heard was ‘God so loved Gentiles, as well as Jews’. Was every Gentile intended? No, for John 11:51,52 and Acts 15:14 tell us that only the chosen Gentiles were the children of God, and, therefore, the loved ones chosen of God. The key to the proper, Biblical, understanding of John 3:16 is not to rely on one’s own comprehension of what the word ‘world’ means, not to allow oneself to be moved by a contemporary understanding of it, but to comprehend it, to be cognisant of it, in light of how Nicodemus understood it.https://www.godsonlygospel.com/for-god-so-lovedwho-part-23

World = universal = catholic
Also Lk 1:10-11 all people
Jn 1:29 whole world