John Calvin and Calvinism.

[Grailhunter]

I believe that Calvinists believe in another Jesus or God because it clearly is not the same GOD described in the Bible. They have to ignore or twist many verses in order to make the god of Calvinism work. Their god is cold and heartless and even when pointed out they just don’t seem to get it when you explain it to them. They think that is how GOD is when in reality they are not believing in the GOD of the Bible. They ignore or twist verses like 2 Thessalonians 2:10, and Jonah 3:10.

Well as I pointed out they are Johnny come latelies because the Gnostics were the first to completely blaspheme God.

Simply put… they were interpreting Scripture without the Holy Spirit and they were going off a man centered interpretation or grievous misunderstanding by not reading the whole counsel of God’s Word. When I was new in the faith, and I did not know all of the Bible yet, and I remember misinterpreting God’s Word to wrongfully shun my family during a holiday get together meal based off a wrong understanding on particular verse. I did not know what I know now through much study and prayer involving His Word.

they were interpreting Scripture without the Holy Spirit and they were going off a man centered interpretation or grievous misunderstanding by not reading the whole counsel of God’s Word.

The problem is we could say this about anyone of the 30,000 denomination. There is no popup timer to tell who is lead by the Holy Spirit and who is not.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your free to disagree. But 2 Thess. 2:10 shows they received not the truth. Why ? Because as it is written in Romans 8- the natural man CANNOT receive the things of God.

First, Romans 8 does not say that the natural man cannot receive the things of God. That would be 1 Corinthians 2:14.

1 Corinthians 2:14 says:
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

Romans 8 says this:

Romans 8:6-8
6 “For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”

The carnal mind here is the one that justifies sin or disobedience to God or in doing things their own way.
Notice the word flesh in verse 8.

Now, lets take a look at Galatians 5.

Galatians 5:19-21

19 “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”​

So they that are in the flesh are in sin or doing sinful deeds (of which they will not inherit the Kingdom of God, i.e. they will not be saved or enter God’s Kingdom and they will unfortunately be destroyed in the Lake of Fire).

Galatians 5:16-17
16 “This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”

So the carnal mind is one that justifies sin or disobedience to God’s word in some way.

Second, you are drawing the wrong conclusion on both 1 Corinthians 2:14 and 2 Thessalonians 2:10.

1 Corinthians 2:14 is in context to verse 16 that says: “But we have the mind of Christ.” (1 Corinthians 2:16).
The key question you need to ask yourself is where does Jesus teach against free will and where does He teach Unconditional Election (Calvinism)?
Does Jesus ever speak in a way that supports free will? I believe He does. In Luke 13:3, Jesus basically says “repent or perish.” In the world of Calvinism: The Non-Elect cannot repent and the Elect are never really ever in danger of perishing. For in Calvinism: If Jesus was speaking to the Elect, they would repent and never be in danger of perishing. In Calvinism: If Jesus was speaking to the Non-Elect, He would be telling them to do something that was impossible for them to do (Which is to repent). Also, Jesus says,

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me.” (Matthew 23:37) (NLT).

Here Jesus is taking to Jerusalem and telling them that that God desired to gather them like children as a when seeks to protect it’s chicks beneath her wings, but the Jews (i.e. Jerusalem) was not willing to allow Jesus to do so. Meaning, the Jews (as a nation or a whole) were not following Jesus and thus they did not have salvation. They did not want the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and they stuck to their man made traditions distorting the Old Covenant ways involving the Law of Moses. Jesus is saying that THEY (the Jerusalem people) would not allow Him to gather them. This is yet another proof against Calvinism because it shows that the Jerusalem people and not GOD was preventing Jesus from gathering them as a hen gathers its chicks beneath its wings.

As for 2 Thessalonians 2:10:

You are not really addressing the problem of what that verse actually says. The verse does not say that those who perish are perishing because God did not Elect them but it the reason why they are perishing is because THEY RECEIVED NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED. There is no MIGHT be saved in Calvinism. In Calvinism: The Un-Elect are not capable of having the choice to even receive the love of the truth let alone that they MIGHT be saved. So again, 2 Thessalonians 2:10 stands in refuting Calvinism.

2 Thessalonians 2:10
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

Notice it does not say that they perish because they were not Elect by God, but it says that the reason WHY they perish is because they received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved. Meaning, there is a possibility that they could have been saved, but they did not receive the love of the truth. It was their choice. If Calvinism was true, this verse would not exist and or it would be reworded differently. A Calvinist rendering on this verse would say something like:

“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish because they were not elected by God to salvation in order to receive the love of the truth so that they would be saved.” (2 Thess. 2:10 False Calvinist Influenced Translation).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well as I pointed out they are Johnny come latelies because the Gnostics were the first to completely blaspheme God.

What in the world does that even mean and how does that explain away 2 Thessalonians 2:10 and Jonah 3:10 refuting Calvinism?

They were interpreting Scripture without the Holy Spirit and they were going off a man centered interpretation or grievous misunderstanding by not reading the whole counsel of God’s Word.

The problem is we could say this about anyone of the 30,000 denomination. There is no popup timer to tell who is lead by the Holy Spirit and who is not.

I don’t think that excuse is going to work come Judgment Day.
You act like God does not have a specific acceptable particular meaning that He desires people to believe by reading His Word (the Bible).
It’s like the Bible is really not necessary by your viewpoint here. God just wrote the Bible for what reason?
2 Timothy 3:16 says all Scripture is profitable for doctrine and instruction in righteousness.

2 John 1:9
“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.”

Also, those who are led by the Spirit obey God.

Acts of the Apostles 5:32
“And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.”

Most denominations I have encountered believe they can abide in sin on some level and still be saved all because they have a belief alone in Jesus as their Savior.

Can God lead them out of sin? Sure. But a believer cannot justify sin and be accepted God. For God is holy and righteous and good.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
So we get faith by believing the Bible.
If you don’t accept the words in the Bible as it was intended by God, then you would be following another faith that is imaginary. An imaginary faith cannot save anyone. Without faith it is impossible to please Him (GOD) (See: Hebrews 11:6).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well as I pointed out they are Johnny come latelies because the Gnostics were the first to completely blaspheme God.



they were interpreting Scripture without the Holy Spirit and they were going off a man centered interpretation or grievous misunderstanding by not reading the whole counsel of God’s Word.

The problem is we could say this about anyone of the 30,000 denomination. There is no popup timer to tell who is lead by the Holy Spirit and who is not.

Can a person be saved if they reject the Trinity?
The Bible teaches the Trinity. Does the Bible say we can worship false gods of our own imagining and be accepted by Him?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well as I pointed out they are Johnny come latelies because the Gnostics were the first to completely blaspheme God. The problem is we could say this about anyone of the 30,000 denomination. There is no popup timer to tell who is lead by the Holy Spirit and who is not.

Jesus says,

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words,
hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken,
the same shall judge him in the last day.” (John 12:48).​

Jesus says he that receives not my words, the word that He has spoken will judge him on the last day.

You are suggesting or implying that there is no possible way to know what God’s Word says because there are so many different denominations and misunderstandings, etcetera, etcetera. Yet, Jesus says that those who do not receive His words they will judge that person on the last day.

Who am I going to believe?
You or Jesus?
I am sticking with Jesus on this one and no you, my friend.

 

[Grailhunter]

What in the world does that even mean and how does that explain away 2 Thessalonians 2:10 and Jonah 3:10 refuting Calvinism?

Just that the Calvinists are not the first religion to blaspheme God.

I don’t think that excuse is going to work come Judgment Day.
Like I said, exactly how Judgment Day is going go is a matter of opinions. Are we going to stand in for Christ as Judge? It is above our pay grade. But I would not want to be standing in front of Christ and have to explain why I believe His Father is a monstrous puppet master.


You act like God does not have a specific acceptable particular meaning that He desires people to believe by reading His Word (the Bible).
One true church. That was the intent of Christ and the Apostles and the Catholic Church. As it is now, if you talk about the one true Church on earth....people will call you the Anti-Christ.

But if you want, you can point to the one true denomination.....or is it yourself?

It’s like the Bible is really not necessary by your viewpoint here. God just wrote the Bible for what reason?

Is a false accusation a lie? You should not do that.

2 Timothy 3:16 says all Scripture is profitable for doctrine and instruction in righteousness.

2 John 1:9
“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.”

Also, those who are led by the Spirit obey God.

Acts of the Apostles 5:32
“And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.”

Most denominations I have encountered believe they can abide in sin on some level and still be saved all because they have a belief alone in Jesus as their Savior.

This would be the Once Saved Always Saved crowd.

Can God lead them out of sin? Sure. But a believer cannot justify sin and be accepted God. For God is holy and righteous and good.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
So we get faith by believing the Bible.
If you don’t accept the words in the Bible as it was intended by God, then you would be following another faith that is imaginary. An imaginary faith cannot save anyone. Without faith it is impossible to please Him (GOD) (See: Hebrews 11:6).

 

[Grailhunter]

You are suggesting or implying that there is no possible way to know what God’s Word says because there are so many different denominations and misunderstandings, etcetera, etcetera. Yet, Jesus says that those who do not receive His words they will judge that person on the last day.

More accurately, I am saying that it is difficult for people to choose one denomination over the other 30,000.
On the other hand I have also said, keeping to the basics, you could write all a person needed on a three by five card to be saved.

That does not mean they should not read the Bible.

Is there a level of difficulty in reading and understanding the Bible....30,000 denominations prove that...all professing that they were lead by the Holy Spirit......and no one having a popup timer. Most of these denominations were started by people that read the Bible like it was the latest edition of the local Sunday paper. It take a lot more than that to understand the Bible as a whole.

 

[Grailhunter]

Can a person be saved if they reject the Trinity?
The Bible teaches the Trinity. Does the Bible say we can worship false gods of our own imagining and be accepted by Him?

Can a person be saved if they do not believe in the Trinity? Can a person be saved if they do not believed in Original Sin? Can a person be saved if they do not believe in the infallibility of the Pope? The Catholics do not believe you can be saved and not believe all this. The doctrines of the Trinity, Original sin, and the Pope, come from Catholic doctrines and the words do no appear in the Bible.

 

[JesusFan1]

I don't know all of Calvins teachings. I have his epic on the Christian religion. I just know that teh five points most talk about are biblical truths and not calvin truths. He simply agreed with the Bible on those points!

I am a reformed Baptist, and would say his Institutes should be required reading, even if I disagreed with him on Ind ant baptism and Eschatology!

 

[JesusFan1]

That doesn't make sense in Calvinists theology.
If you are chosen individually before the foundation of the world, everyone is born destined for heaven or hell. No chosen one could be said to be born lost.

Until saved by the Grace of God, all are still born into Adam, and are lost until saved!

 

[JesusFan1]

Another way of certainly knowing false teaching, is when something makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

If one never 'got lost', then how can he 'fail to get saved'?

If God intended some souls to life by righteousness and other souls to death by sins, then He would have created souls that way.

And the cross of Christ would not be necessary, since the intended souls are made that way, and the other losers never had a chance anyway.

OSAS is mental.

All born as lost sinners into Adam

 

[JesusFan1]

With all due respect, Renniks, this is a silly statement. Everyone is born in sin and in need of salvation in Christ and therefore justification. Being a member of God's elect even before the foundation of the world just means ("just" ~ wow, as if it is some mere thing) that at some point in one's life after he or she is born, he or she will be justified and placed in Christ and therefore redeemed.

Grace and peace to you.

That is TRUE Calvinism!

 

[PinSeeker]

Clearing up a few things:

Pinseeker is claiming mankind can choose to be saved or choose to be lost.
When Pinseeker teaches this, he is not following the doctrine of Calvinism. This is Pinseeker misleading folks away from the only conclusions that will occur if calvinism be true.

I'm not teaching that at all. Not in any way, shape, form, or fashion. So no, I'm not "misleading folks." That's Arminianism; that's an Arminian conlusion.

Facts about Calvinism,

Ah yes, the "facts"...

1 Unconditional Election: (predestination)
God had a master list of those who will be saved and those who will go to hell before creation in Genesis 1:1. This list is unchangeable!

Well there is no "list"... ...but God did choose us Christians in Christ before the foundation of the world, as Paul says in Ephesians 1:

"...He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him" [1:4].​

Unconditional election is based on the scriptural truth that God's election does not depend on man's will or work; that His favor is not dependent on what man decides or does, that there is no condition that man has to meet in order for God to extend His mercy/compassion. As Paul says;

"...it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy" (Romans 9:16)​

No one should miss that, in saying that "it does not depend on man's will or work" Paul (and thus, ultimately speaking, God) implies without question that man does in fact will, that he does in fact make a choice regarding salvation. So how do we reconcile this? Well, Paul also say, this time to the Christians in Philippi, the following:

"...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Philippians 2:12-13).​

2. Limited atonement:
Christ did not die for ALL men but only those on the "saved list".

Christ's death on the cross is unlimited and for all men (and women) in the sense that it is sufficient for all men to be saved. But it is limited and only for some in the sense that not all are chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, but only those of God's elect.

So, we see Pinseeker is not being transparent about his doctrine.

So no, I could not be more transparent.

No way is it possible for all to choose to obey the gospel (freewill).

See this is true, but at its root, it has nothing to do with man's will, free or otherwise. It has to do with the condition of man's heart, his being at his inner core, which drives the will

Calvinism teaches Jesus did not die to save everyone!

Again, yes in one sense, but no in the other. See above.

Therefore, it matters not if you want to be saved...!

LOL! See, that's just it. Because of the condition of the heart, no man wants to be saved, as he thinks it wholly unnecessary. But if one is born again of the Spirit, then ~ because of the changed condition of the heart ~ he sees his need of salvation, desires to be saved, and yes, makes the choice to repent of his sin and to believe on Christ and rest upon Him and His righteousness. And he gets it, of course.

Remember Pinseeker said men and women will choose freely?

If not, I did it again, here...

Pinseeker is claiming calvinism teaches freewill.

Yeah, well, it does. The fact that our salvation does not depend on it does not preclude or eliminate it in any sense whatsoever. And Paul, who said this in Romans 9, exhorts us Christians in Philippians 2 to use our wills ~ to will and work ~ because it is God who is at work in us.

But look at the facts...

Ah, yes, again, the "facts"...

God did not die to save everyone...

Again, yes in one sense (sufficiency), but no in another (no everyone will be in Christ). See above.

If calvinism allows freewill, then those that want to be saved that are not on the "list" of the saved, have no choice but to burn in hell.

For any that are not chosen (before the foundation of the world; Ephesians 1:4), these folks hearts will remain hardened, and thus they will choose... unwisely. But choose they will.

As I already said about Calvinism's doctrine... Man does not have freewill...

Sure, and wrongly, as I have stated over and over again.

God has already decided, chosen your fate for you.

Well, again, He's chosen who to extend mercy/compassion to, and thus in Christ, even from before the foundation of the world. And these are the folks to whom He will give His Spirit, who will give them new birth. And then the will will inevitably follow; they will choose rightly and call upon the Lord. What's really at issue for you and folks like you is not really whether man has a choice or not, but whether he is completely autonomous. And only God is completely autonomous. Taken from ancient Greek, the word means 'self-legislation' or 'self-governance.' Only God is completely sovereign. And He is sovereign over all His creation, of which we are a part.

Pinseeker, you know good and well men do not choose where they will go in the next life!

Well, I know ~ good and well ~ that folks like you think Calvinists think that, but that's a terrible misunderstanding. Willful obstinance, really, in many cases.

Pinseeker, I'm still waiting for you to give an answer to why Adam sinned, without having a "totally depraved sin nature" as you claim is the cause for why mankind sins against God. Adam's "nature" was created in the image of God. Now explain why Adam sinned against God?

He fell from grace; he chose... unwisely. And then fell into this depraved state ~ became a slave to unrighteousness. And, being his offspring, all men are, from birth, naturally in this depraved state ~ slaves to unrighteousness. This is the natural human condition, and so it remains for each individual person, unless and until God steps in, in the Person of His Holy Spirit, and gives him new life in the Spirit. God presumably did this for Adam and Eve at some point subsequent to Genesis 3 (probably in very short order, because we see at the beginning of Genesis 4 that Adam and Eve have chosen wisely and are repentant), and so He does for all those whom He chose before the foundation of the world.

I'm waiting?

Wait no more.

These verses are about Israel.

Well that's true, but some have a very limited understanding of who Israel really is. As Paul says:

"...not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but 'through Isaac shall your offspring be named.' This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring" (Romans 9:6-8)

"...even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles..." (Romans 9:24)

"...a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved..." (Romans 11:25-26)​

Grace and peace to you both.

 

[Titus]

This is Lifelong sinner, telling the whole truth of calvinisms view of man's inability to choose to be saved, thanks for your honesty!

"The fall of man as discussed in the WCF chpt 6.
“By this sin they fell from their original righteousness and communion with God, and so became dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the parts and faculties of soul and body.

3. They being the root of all mankind, the guilt of this sin was imputed; and the same death in sin, and corrupted nature, conveyed to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation.

4. From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual transgressions.”

yea, total depravity or “T” in tulip is the result of the fall in the garden and is passed down generation to generation. That is why its called a curse"

Thankyou, Lifelong sinner.

Lifelong sinner has confirmed what I and others have been teaching.
That is, calvinism does not allow individuals freewill to choose God to save them.

Now listen to Pinseeker spin the truth on calvinism's teaching of man's inability to choose God to be saved,

Now, regarding salvation specifically ~ believing in and accepting Jesus Christ as Savior and repenting of sin ~ a totally depraved wicked reprobate" can choose God, but will not, because of his nature being of the state that it is; he is wholly inclined not to choose that and to do otherwise, and thus, like I said, will not. He will always choose otherwise, because he or she is dead in his sin and thus a slave to unrighteousness.

Pinseeker claims mankind can choose God,
Pinseeker is teaching freewill.
Pinseeker then contradicts his free will claim by stating man will only choose sin.

Notice Pinseeker says man is a slave to unrighteous living.

Are slaves free?

Pinseeker like his mentor RC Sproul, use double talk as a tactic to try and make their calvinist theology appear to be logical.
The calvinist shut down any skepticism by telling you not to use reason to what calvinist theology is teaching.
Rather, you must accept calvinism is Biblical.
If you point out the illogical contradictory, statements made as Pinseeker does with freewill.
They, in my experience, will accuse you of using human reasoning instead of Godly wisdom.

This human reasoning accusation is worldly reason or mans wisdom.

Using logical reasoning in not the same as what the Bible teaches as the "wisdom of the world".

Therefore this is a false accusation used to try and get the non-calvinist to accept their demand that logical reasoning be abandoned when reading the teachings of calvinism.

As I have said to become a calvinist you must,
Abandon logic and embrace insanity.

 

[Titus]

Listen again to the contradictory double speak Pinseeker uses in his explanations,

He fell from grace; he chose... unwisely. And then fell into this depraved state ~ became a slave to unrighteousness. And, being his offspring, all men are, from birth, naturally in this depraved state ~ slaves to unrighteousness

Notice Pinseeker says Adam fell into this depraved state
What was Adam's "nature" before he fell into this supposed depraved state?
Pinseeker admits he was sinless, created in the image of God! Adam had no sin nature!

Pinseeker does not give a valid reason for why Adam in his upright created in the image of God nature,
Chose to sin against God.
It is very important to know calvinist doctrine teaches mankind sins because we are by nature totally depraved and wicked.
Therefore Adam committing sin makes no logical sense based on the calvinist teaching that sin comes from our nature!
Adam did not have a totally depraved nature.
Therefore it makes absolutely no sense for Adam to have committed sin against God from the teachings of calvinist doctrine.

Pinseeker, you have said you answered my question as to why Adam sinned when he was not depraved.

Your answer is vague and really gives no explanation at all.
Calvinism cannot be true because Adam's sin makes no sense in John Calvin's doctrine of why mankind sins.

If calvinism be true it makes sense that Adam sins after he becomes depraved ie His nature changes.
But it makes no sense what Pinseeker is teaching that Adam sinned before his nature changed.

Still the question must be answered!
Why does Adam go against God and choose sin when his nature is upright? Adam is created in the image of God.
Why does man sin? The calvinist answer is because he has a sinful nature!
Adam did not have a sinfull nature.
So why did Adam sin? Calvinism cannot give a valid answer because calvinism is unbiblical thinking of man.

 

[Renniks]

That is TRUE Calvinism!

Too bad it isn't biblical huh?
But you only have to think about it for about two seconds to realize that if Calvinism is true, the pre-chosen is never lost... It's impossible for him to die in his sins, can't happen.

 

[Renniks]

See this is true, but at its root, it has nothing to do with man's will, free or otherwise. It has to do with the condition of man's heart, his being at his inner core, which drives the will

So you have God forcibly changing people's hearts in order to save them... where is that in scripture? It's not.

 

[PinSeeker]

Listen again to the contradictory double speak Pinseeker uses in his explanations...

There is no contradiction.

Notice Pinseeker says Adam fell into this depraved state What was Adam's "nature" before he fell into this supposed depraved state? Pinseeker admits he was sinless, created in the image of God! Adam had no sin nature!

Yes, but he became sinful. And as our first father, this is why we are born with it.

Pinseeker does not give a valid reason for why Adam in his upright created in the image of God nature, chose to sin against God.

Well this is a different question. This question is easily answerable. What we see from scripture is that Eve was deceived by Satan. Adam, who was there with her, could have and should have stepped in and said, "No, God told us not to." Why? Well probably a number of reasons, but obviously he was tempted by Satan's assertion He and Eve would "be like God, knowing good and evil." Pride goes before the fall... where have I heard that recently...? Anyway, Adam knew he was disobeying God and chose to do so anyway. He failed, and plunged the human race into this state of death, which is exactly what God told him would happen in that very day in Genesis 2:17.

It is very important to know calvinist doctrine teaches mankind sins because we are by nature totally depraved and wicked.

Much agreed.

Therefore Adam committing sin makes no logical sense based on the calvinist teaching that sin comes from our nature! Adam did not have a totally depraved nature. Therefore it makes absolutely no sense for Adam to have committed sin against God from the teachings of calvinist doctrine.

This is a conflation of two things. Yes, Adam did not yet have a depraved nature ~ which means the proneness to sin, and thus inability to avoid sin perfectly. Yes, Adam was created in the image of God, but apparently not with the inability to avoid sin perfectly. I'm... not sure what's difficult about that.

Calvinism cannot be true because Adam's sin makes no sense in John Calvin's doctrine of why mankind sins. If calvinism be true it makes sense that Adam sins after he becomes depraved ie His nature changes. But it makes no sense what Pinseeker is teaching that Adam sinned before his nature changed.

Of course it does. That you choose not to accept it makes no difference.

Still the question must be answered! Why does Adam go against God and choose sin when his nature is upright? Adam is created in the image of God.

See above.

Why does man sin?

See above.

The calvinist answer is because he has a sinful nature!

Right, because naturally, he does.

Adam did not have a sinful nature.

At first. See above. Again, that he did not have a sinful nature ~ at first ~ does not mean somehow that he did not have the capability of disobeying God and thus sinning.

So why did Adam sin?

See above.

Calvinism cannot give a valid answer because calvinism is unbiblical thinking of man.

Everybody's welcome to his opinion, mistaken as it may be. Like I said, Arminianism, which Calvinism refutes, is unbiblical.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

So you have God forcibly changing people's hearts in order to save them... where is that in scripture? It's not.

Well that's a clumsy way of stating it. I would call it merciful and compassionate (because scripture does). This is His amazing grace. But yes, God purposes to do what he purposes to do, and... then... does it. Whatever He ordains is right, as the hymn goes. So, oh... yes, it is in scripture:

"For those whom He foreknew (foreloved) He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified" (Romans 8:29-30).

"The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You don't understand what being Inspired is if you think preachers are Inspired.

So you do not believers preachers are inspired by the Holy Spirit to preach their messages? That is truly sad! and of course I am not talking false messages.

Are the English translations Inspired ? Obviously not because even in good English translations, like the KJV, has some errors. No one is Inspired today.
Your interpretation of Inspired, is why christianity is full of confusion.
How are you going to prove John Calvin was Inspired?
I know how the apostles proved what they taught was from God.

Yes every translatiopn from language to another will lose impact, but God is able to preserve His Word in all the translations. As th echur4ch is now 2,000 yeares removed from its birth- we need to study harder with the original languages and cultural histories to better understand what is written.

As I have written before and you seem to ignore, I am not a Calvinist! I believe in teh five points that were presented to rebut the heresies of Jacob Armenius, but that is because they are Scripture!

So tell me, how did Paul prove what He taught was from God- for He taught a lot of large differences to the gentiles than th e original apostles preached to the Jews.

and it is you who doesn't understand inspiration. There is the Inspiration that came from God for the writing of Scripture. The writers did not even know they were undewr a unique and special grace from God. Then there is the inspiration God gives when one is going to teach His Word so they may faithfully teach and protect their message from error.