So, wait. I know that you are interpreting scripture in a sound, virtuous manner, while at the same time arguing for a completely different interpretation.
That either makes me stupid, duplicitous or just very, very confused.
I'll take the 4th option which is...I think we are both doing our best to represent how we see scripture, but wholly disagree with how the other sees it and their basic interpretative grid.
Which doesn't make either of us the problematic things above, but does make for difficult conversations.
While I agree with you on the OSAS issue, I'm not exactly sure how it has any bearing on our conversation at large.
I think its a given that we are understanding scripture on a fundamentally different level. And, it's a fairly considerable issue. When I see the the NT as guiding us to read the OT through 'Christ-centric' lenses and you insist on bringing the OT firmly into the NT and making it land there regardless, I'm not sure we can find much common ground there. I think ultimately, and maybe even soon, we must give up...there is only so many times we can go around this merry-go-round before we must confess we'll never see eye to eye and not likely convince each other that our hermeneutical basis is incorrect.
Well after 46 years and studying the various hermeneutics and the major theological approaches to Scriptures I have come to teh firm conclusion dispensationalism (not necessarily individual dispensationalists) does far less harm to teh Scriptures as written. It take into account symbolsim in teh grammar, allegories and prophetic language!
I do not think it makes you any of those! I find you a sincere and wonderful fellow believer (and we disagree here). I just think you have accepted a theolgical view that does more harm to teh Scriptures than others because it requires allegorizing passages to make them redefined!
Well those who hold that you can lose your salvation pull verses out of context or out of their immediate meanings and force them into another doctrine. If teh verses they love to quote stood as the only verses on soteriology- I would agree with them. But they contradict so many other passages, they are forces to place what are falsely called "im[lied caveats" to teh verses that do say we are saved forever. Example. Hebrews declares that God has perfeceted forever , those being made holy. they place a but there where there is no but or even an implied one. But because they come from the viewpoint that man has to maintain their salvation- they have to put conditions on the verses that show we are not saved or kept or maintain our salvations by avoiding sins or doing good works!
This is true as well with a "REformed Escatology"- It has forever killed the notion that God will save the entire nation of Israel and fulfill the promise of th ekingdom He made! IOW they negate approx. 15% of the OT.
YOu said I spent much time in the ot on this subject! Yes I do! For it is a promise to the covenanted nation of Israel and not the church .
Teh Abrahamic., Davidic, Palestinian and New covenant have not been revoked from teh nation as a nation because of their rejection of Jesus as Messiah 2k years ago! The OT says that ! And then Pau lin romans reminds us that teh gifts and calling of God are without repentance and the context demand sHe is referring to Israel!
Rom. 11:
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Zech. 13:
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Ez. 20:
33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:
34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.
37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.