Judaizers! They Live!!!! They walk among us!!!

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FollowHim

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Christ is the fulfillment of the Law but not the continuance of the Mosaic Law for Christians. You are referencing New Testament scriptures, referencing Old Testament scriptures foretelling of a change and the New Covenant. I believe I provided enough scriptures to clarify what that change meant. This is why Christ did not find Judaism and Christianity compatible. Pulling in beliefs and Laws from the Old Testament just confuses things. If you prefer Jewish beliefs, you can still convert to Judaism. But then you would want to pull Christian beliefs into Judaism. And around and around the circle of confusion goes. In all things Christ's teaching are not only enough but are far superior in morels and character.

There is an obvious error or oversight going on here. Walking righteously. Possible or impossible after Christ has transformed, cleansed and purified our hearts?

Those who say impossible, ie they are still sinners needing Jesus to cover their sin as if it does not exist, is one theological position.
Those who say possible, ie through repentance and confession and walking in love, we are purified, cleansed and made whole, therefore we are no longer rule breakers or found guilty under the law. This is where the apostles were, and encouraged all the disciples to follow their example.

It is so clear founded on two words, being "pure" or purity, and being "holy" or holiness.
In our language and our lack of discussion and confession of both sin and praise for good works and His love, we end up always in failure and self condemnation. Without proper fellowship or sharing and encouragement, the conflicts and issues, become our emphasis and disappointment rather than the gifts and acts of love we share. As we change, and pray through our conflicts and issues, we literally change. This is the ministry of the Holy Spirit and His gifts to our hearts, working in us every day.

What I see often on the forums is literally the defeated, the bitter, the sinners projecting failure and sin on everyone else, confessing their own sinful state and dragging others down as hypocrites, while lying and abusing any others who testify as to walking in the light.

These blots, spreaders of darkness and a lack of faith do not bring blessing or love or even hope in Christ, but defeat, bondage and denial of the power of the cross and the victory of Christ in His death and resurrection. So do not listen to these spreaders of bondage and evil, but listen to the apostles and to Jesus, the light of the world, who has come to bring life to this world and to expose the deeds of darkness that the enemy tries to spread and do. God bless you
 
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JohnPaul

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I just started reading this, will get back to it when I have more time, thank you Grailhunter.
 
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brakelite

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Nevertheless Israel is God's chosen people. And He has to establish the remnant who will return to Jerusalem and build His Temple and prepare for Christ to appear on the Mount of Olives.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but that entire concept is a prophetic myth. Israel may indeed build a temple, but it will have nothing to do with prophetic fulfillment, and Israel as a nation was rejected 2000 years ago and the privileges , the responsibilities and inheritance given to another. And Christ does not touch the mount of olives for another 1000 years...at least.
 

FollowHim

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Sorry to burst your bubble, but that entire concept is a prophetic myth. Israel may indeed build a temple, but it will have nothing to do with prophetic fulfillment, and Israel as a nation was rejected 2000 years ago and the privileges , the responsibilities and inheritance given to another. And Christ does not touch the mount of olives for another 1000 years...at least.

I agree. The idea that Israel is the fulfilment of prophecy is just a zionists dream, and pushed by certain protestant prophetic teachers.
The strange thing is looking at the OT christianity could be regarded as an abomination destroying the temple and the law of God.
Knowing this, why would one want to support a group who are enemies of the gospel and Jesus. Other than jews who became christians much of church history is full of antagonism between jewish and christian communities. I respect their love of Gods law, but not their hatred of Christ.

Christians are being driven out of Israel by both Jews and muslims, and Israel is being supported by a large part of the christian community, which is absurd to say the least.
 
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brakelite

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I agree. The idea that Israel is the fulfilment of prophecy is just a zionists dream, and pushed by certain protestant prophetic teachers.
The strange thing is looking at the OT christianity could be regarded as an abomination destroying the temple and the law of God.
Knowing this, why would one want to support a group who are enemies of the gospel and Jesus. Other than jews who became christians much of church history is full of antagonism between jewish and christian communities. I respect their love of Gods law, but not their hatred of Christ.

Christians are being driven out of Israel by both Jews and muslims, and Israel is being supported by a large part of the christian community, which is absurd to say the least.
One could even lay part of the blame and responsibility for Christian persecution in the middle East at the door of the United states. If the US had been less zealous in "liberating" certain nations and creating "democracies", such as Afghanistan and Libya, the current angst against Christians might not exist. Christians and Moslems were living comparatively peacefully and were coexistent a few decades ago, now Christians are being thrown out of the very nations that lay at the heart of scripture.
 

FollowHim

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One could even lay part of the blame and responsibility for Christian persecution in the middle East at the door of the United states. If the US had been less zealous in "liberating" certain nations and creating "democracies", such as Afghanistan and Libya, the current angst against Christians might not exist. Christians and Moslems were living comparatively peacefully and were coexistent a few decades ago, now Christians are being thrown out of the very nations that lay at the heart of scripture.

I lay the blame on zionism and radical islam.
These are causes which focus on labelling people evil and then killing or stealing their land because they are evil.
Funnily certain christian groups are following the same thought processes, labelling innocents as evil and desiring to destroy them.
 

Grailhunter

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You are simply showing your ignorance about the Ten Commandments here.

1. Did you know that it was Christ Himself who gave the Ten Commandments to Moses on Mount Sinai -- NOT ONCE BUT TWICE -- and personally wrote them on tablets of stone with the finger of God (His own finger)? That when the Bible says that Moses saw God face to face, he saw the pre-incarnate Christ?

2. Are you aware that those commandments are eternal moral and spiritual laws given by God Himself, and that their spiritual meaning is revealed in the Sermon on the Mount? That the character of God and Christ is revealed in these commandments?

3. Are you aware that according to the New Covenant, God writes those laws on the hearts and minds of those who are regenerated by the Holy Spirit?
HEBREWS 8
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this
is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
What else are these "laws" other than the Ten Commandments, which have been distilled into the Law of Love?

4. Did you know that the apostle Paul does NOT tear down the Ten Commandments but gives them the highest praise?

ROMANS 7

1. THE COMMANDMENT WAS ORDAINED TO LIFE
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death....

2. THE LAW IS HOLY, JUST, AND GOOD
12 Wherefore the Law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good...

3. THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin...

4. PAUL TESTIFIES THAT THE LAW IS GOOD
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the Law that it is good.

And your point is?
 

Grailhunter

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The funny thing is that the Anti-Semites always somehow forget that Christ and the apostles were all Jews. And of course, you completely missed the point of my post, since you have been blinded to the truth.

Are you a documented Anti-Semite
 

Grailhunter

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You are following the principle many who do not understand God follow.
Law is about justification therefore if I am justified through Christ I can ignore the law.

But rather the law has no power over us because we do not break it by living in love to our neighbour.
As soon as you say evil deeds are ok because we are in Christ, one has become or is an unbeliever.

Paul was against those who desired circumcision of the flesh and being a jew, which in the sense of the temple and sacrifices is absurd. Christ is the atoning sacrifice, and we are now the temple of the Holy Spirit.

Until you can realise Jesus is the cornerstone of Israel, the completion of testimony of Gods heart to mankind, that we are overcomers by having a changed heart and transformed life, walking in love, purity and holiness, you have missed everything.

God commanded that towns who rebelled against Him in Israel should be wiped out. Those who blasphemed God, should be killed and those who walked away should be cut off from Gods people. There is no place for sinners who rebel and deny who Jesus is, or His path to salvation, no matter their past loyalties.

The term judaizers comes from a hatred of those who believe walking in Christ is walking righteously through His grace and forgiveness. And people who hate this walk always have an unresolved heart and cannot come to terms with their sinful behaviour and actually repent.

Where do I start, their is so much you said here that is wrong. Judaizer were those that attempt to push the Mosaic Law and customs on Christianity. Paul struggled against them throughout his ministry. Paul was firm regarding no Mosaic Law in Christianity.
This issue was why the council of Jerusalem was called. I understand the concept of attacking Pagans.
 
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brakelite

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There is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping God's commandments. And none should ever think that it can't be done with God's help. The problem arises when one thinks that such obedience is what gets them into heaven. None are saved by their obedience no matter how well they do. But none should ever think that they will get into heaven in a state of wilful disobedience either. Both are different sides to the same coin. One side self effort and works based, the other presumption.
 
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brakelite

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The Galatians had a problem alright, but it wasn't that they were being circumcised or keeping the feasts or whatever. Their problem lay in their believing that by doing such things they were thus more assured of salvation than they were when they simply accepted the gospel by faith. Their trust shifted from Christ to their works. The works themselves weren't the issue. The issue was their misdirected faith.
 

Grailhunter

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There is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping God's commandments. And none should ever think that it can't be done with God's help. The problem arises when one thinks that such obedience is what gets them into heaven. None are saved by their obedience no matter how well they do. But none should ever think that they will get into heaven in a state of wilful disobedience either. Both are different sides to the same coin. One side self effort and works based, the other presumption.

There is nothing wrong with Jews keeping God's Commandments, if you are referring to the Mosaic Law. If you are referring to Christianity then this would be exactly what the Judaizers were saying to Paul. The title of this thread is Judaizers! They Live!!! You are proving right. So just for the entertainment value would you like to discuss how many of the 613 Mosaic Laws you keep.
 
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brakelite

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There is nothing wrong with Jews keeping God's Commandments, if you are referring to the Mosaic Law. If you are referring to Christianity then this would be exactly what the Judaizers were saying to Paul. The title of this thread is Judaizers! They Live!!! You are proving right. So just for the entertainment value would you like to discuss how many of the 613 Mosaic Laws you keep.
Perhaps you could start by telling us which of the ten commandments you don't want to keep. Shall we invite your wife to join us and start with the 7th?
 
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Grailhunter

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The Galatians had a problem alright, but it wasn't that they were being circumcised or keeping the feasts or whatever. Their problem lay in their believing that by doing such things they were thus more assured of salvation than they were when they simply accepted the gospel by faith. Their trust shifted from Christ to their works. The works themselves weren't the issue. The issue was their misdirected faith.

You need to re-read all of Galatians! Oh my...
You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Galatians 3:1-2 This is only a couple verses, you need to read the whole book. Paul did not believe Christians should observe the Mosaic Law and it was his number one struggle throughout his ministry.
 

marks

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I believe that’s only every third year. Those in between years we’re to take it to where God has placed his name and consume it before Him.
And if it's too far to carry everything, sell your offering, bring the money, and buy whatever you want, whatever, to eat, drink, whiskey, you name it. But you still are to include the Levite who is within your gates. If memory serves. Like I said, not sure my memory is up to keeping the OT Law.

Much love!
 
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Truth

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This hurts my heart...I am enjoying this thread but my peace and joy tries to leave me when we talk down to each other. :oops::oops:
Can we walk together in love while discussing His Word?

Sorry! do not let yourself feel hurt, As I said we all keep most of those Commandment already? Erase all Commandments for Temple sacrifices, and basically the 10 are the very First Given! All others were added because of their stiff-necked mind sets! Statutes and ordinances were added to circumvent loop-holes, they were trying to go around the original 10. Kinda the what ifs!
 
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marks

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Yes define love.... how do you love your neighbor?
By being committed to your wellbeing just like God is to mine.

By making myself #2 to anyone I meet. By making sure that you have everything that's good for you to have, to know everything that's good for you to know, to be encouraged in all things good.

If there is one sandwich, and we're both hungry, I give it to you, and that's love.

In any offense, I ignore the wrong, not holding anything against you, or anyone, and that's love.

Much love!
 

Truth

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But Paul did say that God will provoke the Jews to jealousy by the salvation of the gentiles and their relationship to Him....Romans 11:11

By all means, We are to Provoke, But How, what would make a Hebrew Jealous??
 

Waiting on him

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And if it's too far to carry everything, sell your offering, bring the money, and buy whatever you want, whatever, to eat, drink, whiskey, you name it. But you still are to include the Levite who is within your gates. If memory serves. Like I said, not sure my memory is up to keeping the OT Law.

Much love!
He wasn’t included in their inheritance if memory serves, which seems odd?
 

Heart2Soul

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By all means, We are to Provoke, But How, what would make a Hebrew Jealous??
Huh.. Jews jealous, Gentiles saved and in fellowship with God...and they are not under the law of moses.