My 9/24/17 response

[ScottA]

No, the rapture most certainly does exist! When...that would be the big question!

But...it has been made clear:

1 Corinthians 15:23
"But each one in his own order" ...each in his own time.

 

[amadeus]

But...it has been made clear:

1 Corinthians 15:23
"But each one in his own order" ...each in his own time.

Very good! It comes back to time, as ordered by God.

 

[Heb 13:8]

I was NOT speaking about the study of the Word of God, rather about the lie you told concerning the date/return of Christ on September 23, 2017, which you deliberately ignored, even after Jesus said “no one knows the day or the hour?”

Hi Jun2u. 1 Cor 4:10.

The "day and hour" Study

There were no subtitles in the original Greek text, "The Day and Hour Unknown". I agree with other watchmen that "the day and hour" is referencing the nouns in the preceding verse in Matt 24:35. If we think about this closely, scripture doesn't tell us when the New Earth will be created. Scripture doesn't say how long the Great White Throne Judgment will be. I also noticed the word "that" is referring to a noun immediately preceding. Heaven and earth in Matt 24:35 are nouns.

Matt 24:35-36 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. 36“But about that (ekeinos) day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Rev 21:1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

ekeinos: that one (or neut. that thing), often intensified by the art. preceding
Original Word: ἐκεῖνος, η, ο
Part of Speech: Demonstrative Pronoun
Transliteration: ekeinos
Phonetic Spelling: (ek-i'-nos)
Short Definition: that, that one there, yonder
Definition: that, that one there, yonder.

yonder definition - Google Search

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from ekei
Definition
that one (or neut. that thing), often intensified by the art. preceding
NASB Translation

c. referring to a noun immediately preceding, he, she, it, (Latinis,ea,id, German selbiger): John 7:45; John 5:46; Mark 16:11; Acts 3:13, etc.; cf. Winers Grammar, § 23, 1; (Buttmann, 104 (91).

2. joined with nouns, and then the noun with the article either precedes, or (somewhat more rarely) follows it (Winers Grammar, 162 (153)) (Buttmann, 119f (104f));

God Bless. - Heb 13:8

When you are certain it is Him there is no risk.....But get ready for the onslaught of other 'believers'

Hi pia. I'll do my best to respond in love. Thank you for the reminder.

The eclipse, earthquakes, hurricanes, solar flares, meteor showers (in Australia), volcanoes rumbling to life, bush fires. The North Korea thing, Russia, Iran... And that's not even going into the Political/racial/leftist stuff at the moment. I think we can say without a doubt that things are heating up. The problem is, we don't yet know how 'hot' God has decreed things to get before he will intervene.

When these things begin to take place, stand up..Luke 21:25-28

There are currently numerous derogatory news articles circulating about the Christians, who thought the world was going to end. They mock us. They mock God.

I don't care. All they're doing is fulfilling prophecy. It means we're closer to His coming.

And I feel I must add: the last time we talked I was quite angry and dismissive of your date setting. So, I don't blame you if you brush aside my advice. I apologize for my attitude, but I do see the harm in setting dates.

Sister, there is nothing to forgive. We're all in this together. I love you in Christ. Keep studying, and keep looking up.

 

[pia]

We're all in this together. I love you in Christ

Wow you must have studied very hard for all this information ? Then again, to some it comes so easy and to others it doesn't. I fear that many of us may not quite follow the grammar in other languages, and I'm sure some would argue outright with you...I speak a couple of languages and it can be difficult to explain to others how it works....
I would certainly agree that we have begun (actually in the late 90's I began to notice a big change ), I guess what the Bible refers to as 'the beginning of sorrows'.......
But like you, I have no idea how long each stage will take. We must not forget that the Bible also tells us that God is not slack about His promises but He is very patient.
Thank you for a very interesting post, and thank you it's not filled with venom toward others on the forum.
God bless you......Pia

 

[Naomi25]

But...it has been made clear:

1 Corinthians 15:23
"But each one in his own order" ...each in his own time.

Sorry, just to clarify...are you suggesting that the rapture is 'individual' and not all at once? I mean, I suppose to everyone who dies before Christ's coming, in a way it is, but if we finish reading verse 23 of the above, it says:

[23] But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. - 1 Cor 15:23

Then we see a bit further down that at His physical return we shall be given incorruptible bodies.

[51] Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, [52] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. - 1 Corinthians 15:51-52

We know that Jesus will return physically, in the clouds:

[11] and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” - Acts 1:11

We are also told in Thessalonians that at his return we will be 'caught up in the clouds'.

[17] Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. [18] Therefore encourage one another with these words. - 1 Thessalonians 4:17-18

There are many events that happen in conjunction with Christ's return. Our being 'caught up' and 'changed' is but one of them. I think, perhaps, we could call that event a 'rapture', for want of a better word. I'm not arguing timing here, just the fact that the bible teaches that we will be; 1) caught up to meet the Lord in the air, and 2) changed physically as we meet him. Seems pretty clear, and it seems like Paul is clearly outlining that when Jesus returns, ALL believers at that time will experience it together.

 

[ScottA]

Sorry, just to clarify...are you suggesting that the rapture is 'individual' and not all at once? I mean, I suppose to everyone who dies before Christ's coming, in a way it is, but if we finish reading verse 23 of the above, it says:

[23] But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. - 1 Cor 15:23

Then we see a bit further down that at His physical return we shall be given incorruptible bodies.

[51] Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, [52] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. - 1 Corinthians 15:51-52

We know that Jesus will return physically, in the clouds:

[11] and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” - Acts 1:11

We are also told in Thessalonians that at his return we will be 'caught up in the clouds'.

[17] Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. [18] Therefore encourage one another with these words. - 1 Thessalonians 4:17-18

There are many events that happen in conjunction with Christ's return. Our being 'caught up' and 'changed' is but one of them. I think, perhaps, we could call that event a 'rapture', for want of a better word. I'm not arguing timing here, just the fact that the bible teaches that we will be; 1) caught up to meet the Lord in the air, and 2) changed physically as we meet him. Seems pretty clear, and it seems like Paul is clearly outlining that when Jesus returns, ALL believers at that time will experience it together.

Well...it was Paul who made it clear. But, yes, that's what I am saying - as sure as we were also born "individually."

Each one of those verses can be read either way, i.e., "In a moment we were all born", etc.. It doesn't mean we were all born together in some mass event.

As for the one verse that actually says "together", that can or should tell you one of two things:

1. Paul is a liar, and you can tear half of the New Testament out of your bible; or:
2. When the creation of time stops for one in death and we pass from the world into the presence of the Lord, it stops for all. Which, if you can receive it, means...we are not born together, nor do not leave together - but we do arrive together. Welcome to the kingdom of heaven!

 

[bbyrd009]

I think, perhaps, we could call that event a 'rapture', for want of a better word.

well, it at least expresses everyone's desire, if not the truth, which could easily be that as you mature in Christ you receive more understanding, and start wondering why "clouds" are inserted in there, etc. Of course a little convo is not going to change your mind i guess, so imo keep an open mind at least, ok. you are breathing "air" right now, and there is no reason that you cannot meet Him in the air right now, either, except that that will ruin your fantasies of what life will be like when you are finally a grown-up i guess.

See, summa those "clouds" there maybe getting in the way already

 

[Heb 13:8]

Luke 19:44 Cross Reference

Isa 10:3 Now what will you do in the day of punishment, And in the devastation which will come from afar? To whom will you flee for help? And where will you leave your wealth?

Jer 11:23 and a remnant will not be left to them, for I will bring disaster on the men of Anathoth-- the year of their punishment."

Luke 19:41-44 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time (kairos/season) of God’s coming to you.”

1 Pet 2:12 Conduct yourselves with such honor among the Gentiles that, though they slander you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day He visits us.

God bless you. - Heb 13:8

 

[Heb 13:8]

Hi all. Blessings to you in Christ.

So I went over my notes the other night after 9/23/17, and as far as I can see I don't see any changes from here. The head and body study is especially important and connected to rapture event, even more now as we draw closer.

Let me know if anyone has any questions about the studies below.

The Heavens
(1.) Virgo gives birth to Jupiter in September of 2017

(2.) Virgo is Israel (our mother) Isa 50:1, Jer 3:8, (Micah 5:2 Ephrathah/an Israelite woman), Gal 4:26, and Jupiter is the body of Christ (the child) Isa 66:7-9, Matt 13:38, Luke 20:36, John 12:36, Rom 8:14-17, Gal 3:26, Col 1:18, 1 Thess 5:5, Rev 12:5

(3.) The sun, moon, stars, planets, constellations are for signs, times, days, years, seasons Gen 1:14, Job 38:31-32, Psa 19:1-6, Psa 104:19, Psa 136:7, Isa 40:26, Luke 21:25-28

(4.) The Rev 12:1-5 sign is also connected to Planet X/antichrist system in Rev 12:3-4 and red dragon/antichrist system (Rev chapter 12-13).. (Planet X Enuma Elish by L. W. King or by Doug Elwell)

The Head / Body
(1.) John uses the words "huios" and "teknon" in Rev 12:5, head and body Col 1:18

(2.) The head (Jesus Christ) was birthed 2,000 years ago when He ascended to heaven Acts 1:1-11

(3.) The body (the church) however was conceived 2,000 years ago at Pentecost, not birthed Acts 2:1-4

(4.) Life begins at conception, not birth Psa 139:13-16, Jer 1:4-5, Matt 1:20, Acts 2:1-4 (Roe v. Wade)

(5.) The body (the church) has been in gestation for 2,000 years up until now (Isa 53:11 amal/trouble, Rev 7:14 thlipsis/trouble), Luke 22:39-46, (Acts 2:24 ódin/agony of death/childbirth), Rom 6:1-5, Rom 8:22-23, 2 Cor 5:1-5, Phil 3:20-21

(6.) Each time a person gets saved, they get put into the body of Christ John 3:16, John 5:24, John 6:35-40, John 10:25-30, Rom 4:7, Rom 6:1-5, Rom 8:38-39, 1 Cor 15:12-19, Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30, Heb 6:18-19, Heb 9:12, Heb 10:11-14, 1 John 5:4-5, 1 John 5:9-14, 2 John 1:2.

(7.) The birth of the body into incorruptible seed is next, through rapture event Rom 6:1-5, 1 Cor 9:25, 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:17, 1 Pet 1:4, 1 Pet 1:23, Rev 12:5

(8.) John uses "teknon" (the church) once in Rev 12:4 and once in Rev 12:5

(9.) The body of Christ is raptured before the dragon devours us, (the moment he was born) Rev 12:4-5

Blessings to you, Heb 13:8.

 

[ScottA]

Hi all. Blessings to you in Christ.

So I went over my notes the other night after 9/23/17, and as far as I can see I don't see any changes from here. The head and body study is especially important and connected to rapture event, even more now as we draw closer.

Let me know if anyone has any questions about the studies below.

The Heavens
(1.) Virgo gives birth to Jupiter in September of 2017

(2.) Virgo is Israel (our mother) Isa 50:1, Jer 3:8, (Micah 5:2 Ephrathah/an Israelite woman), Gal 4:26, and Jupiter is the body of Christ (the child) Isa 66:7-9, Matt 13:38, Luke 20:36, John 12:36, Rom 8:14-17, Gal 3:26, Col 1:18, 1 Thess 5:5, Rev 12:5

(3.) The sun, moon, stars, planets, constellations are for signs, times, days, years, seasons Gen 1:14, Job 38:31-32, Psa 19:1-6, Psa 104:19, Psa 136:7, Isa 40:26, Luke 21:25-28

(4.) The Rev 12:1-5 sign is also connected to Planet X/antichrist system in Rev 12:3-4 and red dragon/antichrist system (Rev chapter 12-13).. (Planet X Enuma Elish by L. W. King or by Doug Elwell)

The Head / Body
(1.) John uses the words "huios" and "teknon" in Rev 12:5, head and body Col 1:18

(2.) The head (Jesus Christ) was birthed 2,000 years ago when He ascended to heaven Acts 1:1-11

(3.) The body (the church) however was conceived 2,000 years ago at Pentecost, not birthed Acts 2:1-4

(4.) Life begins at conception, not birth Psa 139:13-16, Jer 1:4-5, Matt 1:20, Acts 2:1-4 (Roe v. Wade)

(5.) The body (the church) has been in gestation for 2,000 years up until now (Isa 53:11 amal/trouble, Rev 7:14 thlipsis/trouble), Luke 22:39-46, (Acts 2:24 ódin/agony of death/childbirth), Rom 6:1-5, Rom 8:22-23, 2 Cor 5:1-5, Phil 3:20-21

(6.) Each time a person gets saved, they get put into the body of Christ John 3:16, John 5:24, John 6:35-40, John 10:25-30, Rom 4:7, Rom 6:1-5, Rom 8:38-39, 1 Cor 15:12-19, Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30, Heb 6:18-19, Heb 9:12, Heb 10:11-14, 1 John 5:4-5, 1 John 5:9-14, 2 John 1:2.

(7.) The birth of the body into incorruptible seed is next, through rapture event Rom 6:1-5, 1 Cor 9:25, 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:17, 1 Pet 1:4, 1 Pet 1:23, Rev 12:5

(8.) John uses "teknon" (the church) once in Rev 12:4 and once in Rev 12:5

(9.) The body of Christ is raptured before the dragon devours us, (the moment he was born) Rev 12:4-5

Blessings to you, Heb 13:8.

All of those passages of scripture must be reconciled with these, which cannot be done with your assumption of a future mass event:

• Matthew 10:7
  "And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’" - meaning then, not future.
• John 4:35
  "Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest!" - already...even then.
• Luke 23:43
  "And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” - "today", not future.
• Revelation 22:20
  "He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.” Amen." - "quickly", not in the distant future.
• Matthew 24:34
  "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place." - that generation, not future.
• 1 Corinthians 15:23
  "But each one in his own order" - each in his own time.

...But they can indeed be reconciled...just not as you have assumed.

Why do you not rather seek the truth?

 

[bbyrd009]

Why do you not rather seek the truth?

ha who wants to be Gandhi after seeing Bewitched lol

 

[Helen]

I don't need to post in this thread...but just say - All that @ScottA said in all of his posts . Amen!
My work done in this thread..
Bless you...

 

[ScottA]

ha who wants to be Gandhi after seeing Bewitched lol

I can't stop laughing about this!

 

[Helen]

@ScottA Only just noticed that you wrote a book a few years ago....I have just ordered it on Amazon. I love reading...next to posting on this site
Our Canadian winters are long...so I read a lot.

 

[Truth]

Hi all. I would like to say blessings to you in Christ, and I hope you are doing well.

First off, I kindly would like to say that I'm not apologizing for my beliefs and convictions I had (at that time). On 9/20/17 I did however apologize in my thread for upsetting or offending others with my personal responses, if I did. There is no sin in loving the Lord's appearing, 2 Tim 4:8. End time discussion always gets personal and arbitrary, and I understand that completely.

Getting eschatology wrong does not make you a false (name here), it simply means that eschatology is something that you're passionate about and enjoy studying in your walk with Christ. Not everyone enjoys it, in fact I believe it's one of the most difficult challenges for a Christian to pursue. It takes prayer, discernment, risk, humility and courage to even approach it.

I could easily have done my studies in private, but I chose to share them on the Internet (on an eschatology page). I could of easily taken the path of the hermitage, and I'm sure many have in regards to Rev 12:1-5 sign, 1 Thess 4:9-12. Since the Rev 12:1-5 sign only occurred once in 7,000 years I felt it necessary to study the appropriate text, and if the pharisees would like to stone me to death then go ahead. I am covered in the blood of Jesus, and there is no condemnation for those in Christ. I am already dead, Acts 7:54-60, (Acts 7:60), Rom 6:3, Gal 2:20, Col 3:3.

Eschatology is made up of 1/4 of the entire Bible, so to ignore it is to ignore His Word. For example, some might say we can't know the day and hour so it's pointless to study end times scripture, and I would have to disagree since Daniel and John have already given us a day count. It's easier and safer to say nothing will happen rather then study His Word and take that risk, and that is what I will continue to do because I love that part of His Word. I love the risk.

Studying eschatology does not bring me pain, it brings me joy. The only truth you will ever find is in the Word of God, and I will continue to search for that truth. To me, being wrong in eschatology is more confirmation that I'm on the right path. It does not weaken my walk with Christ, rather it strengthens it. I can finally check the errors off my list and move forward (with feelings of relief). However, going back to my original studies I do believe this was the Rev 12:1-5 sign that came to fulfillment in the heavens. How God fulfills it on earth is a completely different matter, for He is the one that is Sovereign.

Since the rapture did not occur does that mean the rapture doesn't exist, no (1 Thess 4:13, 18, Titus 2:13, Rev 12:5). It just means that we need to learn more about who Jesus Christ is and what He is trying to reveal to us. Abba Father is in control, and I am merely the student. The good news is that people still have time to come to a saving faith and knowledge of Jesus Christ, and at the end of the day that is what is most important. If you're not sure you have eternal life through Jesus Christ please consider.. John 3:3-7, John 3:16, John 14:6, Acts 4:12, Rom 6:23, Rom 10:9-10, 1 John 5:9-15.

God bless you, love you in Christ. - Heb 13:8, Col 3:15

Why is it that Our Lord Has Tarried Till Now? Why Has not the Redeemer Returned Long Ere This?

1. because God would give man full opportunity to develop his schemes and thereby demonstrate the world's need of a competent Ruler.
2. in order that God might fully display His long-sufferance.
3. third, in order that God might fully test the faith of His own people.

You would have had to rely offended someone and you would have been given a response if so! Keep up your study, let no one become a stumbling Block, We as believers should be able to restrain ourselves from anger. Being a Believer Should thicken our skin, I have been rejected by more people for Jesus's sake, then I did in High School. LOL

 

[Heb 13:8]

All of those passages of scripture must be reconciled with these, which cannot be done with your assumption of a future mass event:

Hi Scott. Well of course the rapture is a future mass event. That's obvious.

You would have had to rely offended someone and you would have been given a response if so! Keep up your study, let no one become a stumbling Block, We as believers should be able to restrain ourselves from anger. Being a Believer Should thicken our skin, I have been rejected by more people for Jesus's sake, then I did in High School. LOL

Thank you Truth.

 

[ScottA]

Hi Scott. Well of course the rapture is a future mass event. That's obvious.

From this side (from the perspective of the worldly timeline), Paul is very clear: "each in his own order." Even then, it is only a "future" event for those who die in the future. Do you not know that this is the day and the hour that no one knows?

It is only a mass event from the other, heavenly side: "in the twinkling of an eye."

Do you understand the difference?

 

[Heb 13:8]

From this side (from the perspective of the worldly timeline), Paul is very clear: "each in his own order." Even then, it is only a "future" event for those who die in the future. It is only a mass event from the other, heavenly side: "in the twinkling of an eye."

Scott, the rapture is for those who are alive in Christ right now and those who are dead in Christ. They will all be raised together.

1 Thess 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Do you not know that this is the day and the hour that no one knows?

The day and hour is not referring to rapture. There were no subtitles in the original Greek text, "The Day and Hour Unknown". I agree with other watchmen that "the day and hour" is referencing the nouns in the preceding verse in Matt 24:35. If we think about this closely, scripture doesn't tell us when the New Earth will be created. Scripture doesn't say how long the Great White Throne Judgment will be. I also noticed the word "that" is referring to a noun immediately preceding. Heaven and earth in Matt 24:35 are nouns.

Matt 24:35-36 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. 36“But about that (ekeinos) day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Rev 21:1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

ekeinos: that one (or neut. that thing), often intensified by the art. preceding
Original Word: ἐκεῖνος, η, ο
Part of Speech: Demonstrative Pronoun
Transliteration: ekeinos
Phonetic Spelling: (ek-i'-nos)
Short Definition: that, that one there, yonder
Definition: that, that one there, yonder.

yonder definition - Google Search

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from ekei
Definition
that one (or neut. that thing), often intensified by the art. preceding
NASB Translation

c. referring to a noun immediately preceding, he, she, it, (Latinis,ea,id, German selbiger): John 7:45; John 5:46; Mark 16:11; Acts 3:13, etc.; cf. Winers Grammar, § 23, 1; (Buttmann, 104 (91).

2. joined with nouns, and then the noun with the article either precedes, or (somewhat more rarely) follows it (Winers Grammar, 162 (153)) (Buttmann, 119f (104f));

God Bless.

 

[ScottA]

Scott, the rapture is for those who are alive in Christ right now and those who are dead in Christ. They will all be raised together.

1 Thess 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.



The day and hour is not referring to rapture. There were no subtitles in the original Greek text, "The Day and Hour Unknown". I agree with other watchmen that "the day and hour" is referencing the nouns in the preceding verse in Matt 24:35. If we think about this closely, scripture doesn't tell us when the New Earth will be created. Scripture doesn't say how long the Great White Throne Judgment will be. I also noticed the word "that" is referring to a noun immediately preceding. Heaven and earth in Matt 24:35 are nouns.

Matt 24:35-36 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. 36“But about that (ekeinos) day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Rev 21:1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

ekeinos: that one (or neut. that thing), often intensified by the art. preceding
Original Word: ἐκεῖνος, η, ο
Part of Speech: Demonstrative Pronoun
Transliteration: ekeinos
Phonetic Spelling: (ek-i'-nos)
Short Definition: that, that one there, yonder
Definition: that, that one there, yonder.

yonder definition - Google Search

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from ekei
Definition
that one (or neut. that thing), often intensified by the art. preceding
NASB Translation

c. referring to a noun immediately preceding, he, she, it, (Latinis,ea,id, German selbiger): John 7:45; John 5:46; Mark 16:11; Acts 3:13, etc.; cf. Winers Grammar, § 23, 1; (Buttmann, 104 (91).

2. joined with nouns, and then the noun with the article either precedes, or (somewhat more rarely) follows it (Winers Grammar, 162 (153)) (Buttmann, 119f (104f));

God Bless.

Wow, that is a mouthful...just to say, "that day", which spiritually is the fulfillment of all things.

Yes, the dead and the living are raptured together. But that is not to say they are raptured at one time, but rather each in his own order in the world and yet together in the kingdom.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Yes, the dead and the living are raptured together. But that is not to say they are raptured at one time

hama: at once
Original Word: ἅμα
Part of Speech: Adverb
Transliteration: hama
Phonetic Spelling: (ham'-ah)
Short Definition: at the same time, along with
Definition: at the same time, therewith, along with, together with.