My theory about the "Word" in John 1:1

[Enoch111]

...and did not exist as the Son of God before his incarnation.

There you go with your false doctrine.

Jesus is and was THE ETERNAL Son of God -- whose goings forth have been "from everlasting" (Micah 5:2).
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall He come forth unto me that is to be Ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

 

[janc]

Jesus heard and obeyed every Word of God -- and manifested it in reality. Thus the Word became flesh.

If we look at it this way, then every prophet and apostle of God has manifested the Word, and so John 1:1 is not as meaningful as it is. I think that the Word which is God's Spirit and thus God himself literally manifested in the flesh, that means God himself became a real man. A man with a human consciousness and yet God, pure God and pure man.
Read Phil 2:6-89:
For this mind is in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not regard being equal to God as robbery, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, becoming equal to men, and, being made in the form of a man, humbled himself by becoming obedient unto death, even death on a cross.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

It would very strange for Jesus to say that if he was claiming to be the Word. Jesus was also able to speak the Words of the Father.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

It would be strange too if Jesus were the Word to say he spoke words that were spirit.

I don't see what's strange about it.

 

[historyb]

But Christianity has nothing to do with the Bible.

It has everything to with the Bible

If the Word is really another separate person, why is it not called Son but "Word"? That the Word is the Spirit of God is confirmed in Psalm 33:6, because there the Word is identified as the Spirit: "By the Word the heavens were created, by the Spirit of his mouth, because he spoke and it was". The Word is the Spirit of God, it is his power and wisdom, it is his personality, his mind. Not an other person.

The Word is Christ, Christ has always existed with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. One God in Three persons always and forever. Christianity has been around for 2000 plus years and does not need new theories. Leave your heretical ideas and embrace the truth.

 

[janc]

There's no need for any theory. John chapter 1 makes it perfectly clear that the "Word" is "the only begotten Son of God".

The Word became man and thus a son to God, since man is under God. But the Word also exists outside of the incarnation as father. Nowhere does it say that the Word was a son before the incarnation.
Why were the terms Father and Son not used heavily in the Old Testament? Why do they have such a big meaning in the New Testament? These are the questions to ask.

He is the one who spoke and it was done.

If the word is an separate person and not the father, then there are only 2 possibilities: "The Father has no spirit/mind; There are two different gods." And both would contradict the Bible.
The Word is the expression of God's thought, and therefore no other person.

Who came to Mary? A so-called son? No. The Spirit of God came to Mary and manifested in the flesh.

 

[janc]

There you go with your false doctrine.

Jesus is and was THE ETERNAL Son of God -- whose goings forth have been "from everlasting" (Micah 5:2).
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall He come forth unto me that is to be Ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Again, I do not deny that Jesus is the eternal God who became flesh, please read through my latest posts.
I say that he did not exist as the son of God before he became man. And the Bible does not say that either.

 

[Joseph77]

nvm

 

[Base12]

Software Code...

 

[janc]

Can you be honest ?

Was the Son Crucified, or was the Father Crucified ?

The Almighty God became the Son through the incarnation, and He was crucified.

 

[Joseph77]

nvm

 

[Giuliano]

If we look at it this way, then every prophet and apostle of God has manifested the Word, and so John 1:1 is not as meaningful as it is. I think that the Word which is God's Spirit and thus God himself literally manifested in the flesh, that means God himself became a real man. A man with a human consciousness and yet God, pure God and pure man.
Read Phil 2:6-89:
For this mind is in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not regard being equal to God as robbery, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, becoming equal to men, and, being made in the form of a man, humbled himself by becoming obedient unto death, even death on a cross.

The question about Philemon is if the same mind that was in Jesus is in us. Adam fell, and man was no longer in the proper image and likeness. Jesus restored that. Can God manifest in you?

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

The Jews were told not to listen to anyone who taught something different about God. If Jews and Christans disagree, that means the Jews must be right on that point.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Deuteronomy 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

Jesus also said the Jews had the right idea about God, telling the woman at the well:

John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

I don't see what's strange about it.

Jesus as the Word of God has words which are spirit?

 

[janc]

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

I think this passage does not contradict anything if one interprets it correctly.
When the Bible says that a man cannot be God, then a normal man is meant, but Jesus was not only pure man like every man but also pure God, he was not a demigod but a whole man and whole God. It sounds confusing and hard to believe for us humans, I don't quite understand the whole thing either, but it is what the Bible teaches.

There is only one God and not three and Jesus was not created. God literally became man.

The voice of one crying in the wilderness: Make ready the way of YHWH pave a road in the wilderness for our God.

 

[Giuliano]

I think this passage does not contradict anything if one interprets it correctly.
When the Bible says that a man cannot be God, then a normal man is meant, but Jesus was not only pure man like every man but also pure God, he was not a demigod but a whole man and whole God. It sounds confusing and hard to believe for us humans, I don't quite understand the whole thing either, but it is what the Bible teaches.

There is only one God and not three and Jesus was not created. God literally became man.

The voice of one crying in the wilderness: Make ready the way of YHWH pave a road in the wilderness for our God.

I don't think either of us will change our minds.

 

[janc]

Jesus as the Word of God has words which are spirit?

Yes?

 

[Giuliano]

Yes?

Sorry, but I don't feel like going on here.

 

[Joseph77]

nvm

 

[janc]

Sorry, but I don't feel like going on here.

Go in Peace.

Just one question, are you a cat?

 

[janc]

If janc keeps seeking the truth, if he is seeking the truth,

it is the promise of Scripture, God's Promise, that he will find the truth, and the truth will set him free.

We don't know, I don't know if we can know, if this will ever happen or no. We won't, if it is not given to us from the Father in heaven.

I'm not wise, are you wise?

 

[Joseph77]

nvm

 

[janc]

I know from your first posts you are not wise, nor honest.

This does not mean that you must stay that way.

God Says that if anyone is lacking in Wisdom, to ask God, Who gives to all men generously and without reproach,
and God will grant his request ,
unless he is double-minded. No one who is double-minded, it is written , should expect God to hear his prayers.

So.. you are wise?

 

[DNB]

There are three persons in the Trinity. God the Father, God the Son (who is the Word), and God the Holy Spirit. Yes the Word is a separate person yet the Same God.

Here is the Athanasian Creed about the Holy Trinity:

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.

Why would you quote a non-Scriptural pagan treatise, in order to qualify your incomprehensible and un-Biblical viewpoint on the Godhead?