My theory about the "Word" in John 1:1

[justbyfaith]

See specifically posts #1-#6 in the following thread:

True Trinity.

 

[Heyzeus]

You are not going to be able to get me to reject Pauline scripture as uninspired, sorry.

Paul said many "uninspired" things in his writings - and then you have all the Epistles that are in Paul's name but not written by Paul
What does this have to do with "The Logos " of John though ?

 

[justbyfaith]

Paul said many "uninspired" things in his writings - and then you have all the Epistles that are in Paul's name but not written by Paul
What does this have to do with "The Logos " of John though ?

Your position classifies you as being not a Christian.

You are being dishonest therefore to make that your designated faith on these boards.

 

[Heyzeus]

Your position classifies you as being not a Christian.

You are being dishonest therefore to make that your designated faith on these boards.

You are speaking nonsense - who are you to determine what is a "Christian" and what is not.

I am a follower of Christ - Paul was not - until years after the death of our Lord - and Paul has made some very "uninspired" statements.

Your literalist perspective is not shared with the majority of Christianity. This is no reason to call the majority of Christianity - "not Christian"

Bet we could go through your political views and show how you are Not a follower of the teachings. Hearing the word is one thing - being a doer of the word is another.


What does this have to do with Homoousios ? -

Do you want the Horses Mouth - aka Jesus .. or some fellow who is not Jesus - if you have to choose between the two..

This does not mean I do not find some Pauline Scripture inspiring - but if there is conflict - I am defaulting to Jesus .. and this is the difference.

 

[justbyfaith]

If anyone is truly a believer, they hold that all scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16).

I know that those who are born again will agree with this assessment.

 

[Heyzeus]

If anyone is truly a believer, they hold that all scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16).

I know that those who are born again will agree with this assessment.

Yeah Yeah .. the literalist perspective doesn't do it for me.. nor for the majority - and that does not make them worse followers of Jesus than you...
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As stated in previous post ... if you want to talk politics we will see very fast how you have not been following the teachings .. yet you proudly proclaim that others are heretics .. for not sharing your particular perspective something about log out of own eye comes to mind.

If you want to follow the Prophet Paul - you go right ahead .. and hope that leads you to a nice place...

I think Paul has some good things to say - and some bad - call him a prophet of the one True God if you like - but where these two come into conflict I default to Jesus. Why is this so disconcerting to you .. there are many such conflicts in the Bible .. and if you are not aware of at least a few .. your brain is not engaged .. that thing God gave you to go hmmmmmmmm .. once in awhile .. something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

If we are talking OT law .. do I go with "God's Literal Law" .. citing Deuteronomy and so on .. or do I default to Jesus .. again .. I default to Jesus.

You on the other hand have to take all this irreconcilable stuff .. and reconcile it - desperately trying to make conflicting ideology fit into your perspective - because if one small but legitimate contradiction is found .. the whole structure collapses - but its a square peg in a round hole. That is the literalist Perspective in a nutshell.

Do I seriously have to defend the claim that there was some global flood round 2200 BC - one that killed all land creatures ? - sans Noah and Kin. in order to follow the teachings of Jesus ? .. I think not. .

How about I take some of the stuff as allegory - a story from the past that explained where we came from .. every religion has this story - but when these stories finally got written down - they were not stories from the present .. but stories from the distant past .. ..

Perhaps what the story is describing is the combined collective memory of the various mass flood events - that happened as sea levels rose.
One was particularly catostrophic .. when the black sea formed .. was a natural damn .. sea levels rose and rose and finally broke through forming the black sea . anyone living anywhere near that region at the time would have thought the whole world had flooded..

 

[justbyfaith]

Yeah Yeah .. the literalist perspective doesn't do it for me.. nor for the majority -

Since the majority is headed down the broad path that leads to destruction (Matthew 7:13-14), I am perfectly content to take the narrow path; and also to be considered "narrow-minded".

there are many such conflicts in the Bible .. and if you are not aware of at least a few .. your brain is not engaged ..

I have made it my aim to reconcile apparent contradictions in the Bible...and I have never seen one that I have not been able to reconcile with sincere logic and/or an introduction of a third scripture passage into the equation that explains the seeming contradiction.

You on the other hand have to take all this irreconcilable stuff .. and reconcile it - desperately trying to make conflicting ideology fit into your perspective - because if one small but legitimate contradiction is found .. the whole structure collapses - but its a square peg in a round hole. That is the literalist Perspective in a nutshell.

None of it is irreconcilable.

Do I seriously have to defend the claim that there was some global flood round 2200 BC - one that killed all land creatures ? - sans Noah and Kin. in order to follow the teachings of Jesus ? .. I think not.

Perhaps not...however, the Bible teaches that if you deny the flood of Noah, it is because you are following after your own lusts (2 Peter 3:3-6); and that this is your motivation for denying it, because you are seeking to deny the veracity of holy scripture in doing so....and thus the claims that holy scripture might make upon your life as concerning the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life (1 John 2:16).

 

[Heyzeus]

Since the majority is headed down the broad path that leads to destruction (Matthew 7:13-14), I am perfectly content to take the narrow path; and also to be considered "narrow-minded".

Claiming that passage is referring to you because you happen to disagree with most of Christianity is abject nonsense. You are not on the narrow path .. you are on the sheep path .. with a whole bunch of gullible, self deluded and narrow minded sheep (at least you admit it though ).

I have made it my aim to reconcile apparent contradictions in the Bible...and I have never seen one that I have not been able to reconcile with sincere logic and/or an introduction of a third scripture passage into the equation that explains the seeming contradiction.

Once again this is self delusion .. You have not reconciled the contradiction.

A) Should Children be killed for the sins of their parents
B) Should Children not be killed for the sins of their parents.

There is no getting around this contradiction - and justification and apology for the examples where Children are killed "Because of the Sins of their parents" does not change the fact that it is a contradiction.

Perhaps not...however, the Bible teaches that if you deny the flood of Noah, it is because you are following after your own lusts (2 Peter 3:3-6); and that this is your motivation for denying it, because you are seeking to deny the veracity of holy scripture in doing so

So because some Pious Fraudster writes a few things down and attributes his words to Peter - we should close our minds to reality and engage in self delusion.

I don't think that is why God gave you a brain ... but, you are welcome to a different opinion.

 

[justbyfaith]

Once again this is self delusion .. You have not reconciled the contradiction.

A) Should Children be killed for the sins of their parents
B) Should Children not be killed for the sins of their parents.

I have reconciled the apparent contradiction, but you do not accept my claim.

But I suggest that you quote the scriptures that you are referring to so that they can be dealt with more adequately.

But I think that the reason that you don't quote or reference them is because you know that if we compare the scriptures and look at them objectively, it will be borne out that there is no real contradiction there.

So because some Pious Fraudster writes a few things down and attributes his words to Peter - we should close our minds to reality and engage in self delusion.

I don't think that is why God gave you a brain ... but, you are welcome to a different opinion.

Attributing the authorship of the holy scriptures to a "fraudster" is only a desperate attempt on your part to escape the demands of holy scripture on your life and faith.

 

[Heyzeus]

I have reconciled the apparent contradiction, but you do not accept my claim.

But I suggest that you quote the scriptures that you are referring to so that they can be dealt with more adequately.

But I think that the reason that you don't quote or reference them is because you know that if we compare the scriptures and look at them objectively, it will be borne out that there is no real contradiction there.



Attributing the authorship of the holy scriptures to a "fraudster" is only a desperate attempt on your part to escape the demands of holy scripture on your life and faith.

I already quoted you the scriptures - and you are once again engaging in deception trying to pretend otherwise.
Deut 24:16 - Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents.
Deut 13 - (and numerous other places) - 12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock.

You may begin reconciling :) - and when your done .. state your position on Gods word.

Is it "Gods Word" that we kill children for the sins of their parents .. or should we not kill children for the sins of their parents.

Or - should we kill children for the sins of their parents only if their parents turn to other Gods

 

[justbyfaith]

In the second scripture...the children died for their own sins; not for the sins of their parents.

The children most assuredly received ideologies and idolatrous thought patterns that were handed down to them by their parents...

However it should be clear that these idolatrous thought patterns were their own.

If they had been allowed to survive, they would have brought Israel into a state of idolatry...and in fact it can be learned from scripture (even history) that Israel was disobedient and many of these did survive....the result being that Israel was given over to the worship of Molech and ended up passing their children through the fire as a matter of course.

 

[justbyfaith]

My take on what the word of the Lord teaches on this issue is what it says in 2 Kings 14:6.

 

[justbyfaith]

Also, the reason why I asked you to provide the references again was so that I might deal with the scriptures in question once again...it is easier to deal with what is right in front of you than with that which is hiding behind a bush.

 

[Heyzeus]

In the second scripture...the children died for their own sins; not for the sins of their parents.

That is obscene mind bending self deception. Are you kidding me .. some 6 month old baby doesn't have "idolatrous though patters"

The children most assuredly received ideologies and idolatrous thought patterns that were handed down to them by their parents...

Just absolutely stunning .. a 6 month old "idolatrous thought patterns" - lets kill it .. and the 6 month old fetus along with it - which you seem to care so much for - in your desperate circle of hypocrisy.

This is horrible what you are saying. . and we should follow "God's word" today should we .. wow - what a society you would have... we would be burning people at the stake left right and center.

If they had been allowed to survive, they would have brought Israel into a state of idolatry...a

So how did Joshua feel about "the book of the Law" .. these laws that Moses wrote ? and who followed them .. certainly not the Israelites.
Don't recall too many stories about this law being carried out. ... and certainly they had forgotten all about this law when Joshua is giving his farewell speech

and how come Joshua has never heard of this law ?

Joshua 24:2 Joshua said to all the people, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Long ago your ancestors, including Terah the father of Abraham and Nahor, lived beyond the Euphrates River and worshiped other gods.

14 “Now fear the Lord and serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your ancestors worshiped beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”

What happened to "Kill every one" ? now it is "Do what you like" ! We goona worship YHWH and my family .. you folks do what you like.

Contradiction central .. this God can't make up his mind from one generation to the next .. in fact ... this isn't another generation as Joshua was of the same generation.

Right after Joshua dies the people forget all about YHWH - go right back to worshiping other Sons of God .. Baal .. and many others .. including the Child Sacrifice God ..

This law is a later invention by some of the stricter groups .. didn't exist at the time of Moses... Slaughter the children on the basis of xenophobia - combined with the sins of their parents .. many examples of that - - but your wish to "kill Israelite Children for idolatry" was not fulfilled .. and I am still amazed you tried to justify such a thing.

When is the last time you read through the OT .. you should again .. let me know how much time the Israelites spend worshiping YHWH .. wasn't worshiped before Abraham .. supposedly this was Abraham's God but we know that was El .. but OK .. lets say for a short period of time.. then the captivity .. Joshua tells us they are back to other Gods .. for hundreds of years .. then this new prophet comes - and connects this new God .. likely out of the monotheistic Egyptian cult that arose .. those folks needing to leave in a hurry..

Moses leaves for a few weeks and they go right back to worshiping Bull - El and Consort Asherah and likely one of the sons .. Ball being YHWH's chief rival.. and who leads them ? Aaron .. the Brother of Moses

Then God follows these folks around for decades - but they don't seem to pay much attention .. as they are still worshiping other Gods .. as per Joshua .. and continue to do so after Joshua ..

Not much time spent on YHWH .. period. That is what the Bible tells us .. and what the archaeology tells us - that is what History tells us .. of which we uncover more and more every day.

So maybe give some of the harsher laws in Deut and Leviticus a rest - it is as much a history of a people as it is a religious text .. keep that in mind and try not to mix the two so much.. there was some major human intervention .. different stories woven together .. and the different sources have different perspective .. in the alternate version Isaac bites the dust ..

Jahwist, Elohist, Priestly, Deuteronomist - different sources .. different perspectives.

 

[justbyfaith]

You are simply lying in that you have identified yourself as a Christian on your profile.

Other gods are not to be represented with a capital "G".

1Co 8:6, But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; even one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Clearly, this is what the scriptures say...

Jde 1:12, These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Jde 1:13, Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
Jde 1:14, And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jde 1:15, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Jde 1:16, These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

You also cut short the sentence that I will relate below:

If they had been allowed to survive, they would have brought Israel into a state of idolatry...and in fact it can be learned from scripture (even history) that Israel was disobedient and many of these did survive....the result being that Israel was given over to the worship of Molech and ended up passing their children through the fire as a matter of course.

 

[Heyzeus]

Also, the reason why I asked you to provide the references again was so that I might deal with the scriptures in question once again...it is easier to deal with what is right in front of you than with that which is hiding behind a bush.

You were given scripture - big time contradiction for which you desperately tried to resolve but failed.

 

[Heyzeus]

You are simply lying in that you have identified yourself as a Christian on your profile.

Other gods are not to be represented with a capital "G".

You are projecting again.. it is your foundation that is a lie - and has been exposed as such - unable to defend your position you resort to name calling and calling out typo's :)

 

[justbyfaith]

You were given scripture - big time contradiction for which you desperately tried to resolve but failed.

I have not failed to resolve the apparent contradiction...but you do not accept the resolution that is presented.

Your failure to receive the truth in no way precludes the idea that I have not been able to accurately refute your idea that there are contradictions in the Bible.

 

[justbyfaith]

You are projecting again.. it is your foundation that is a lie - and has been exposed as such - unable to defend your position you resort to name calling and calling out typo's :)

That was no typo...you intended to exalt other gods to the same exalted position as the one true God...you capitalized the word not once, but twice...if it was a typo, go back and correct your mistake.

 

[justbyfaith]

Joshua tells us they are back to other Gods

go right back to worshiping other Sons of God .. Baal ..