NT Greek

[evan]

I've always wanted to learn to read the NT in it's original language because of occasions when the pastor would make references to the "original Greek" in order to clarify a particular passage. Not too long ago, I happened to discuss this with my brother-in-law and found out that he too always wanted to learn Greek, and was in the process of doing so. He actually wrote a java based tool to help him with learning the language. It's an online interlinear Bible with the added ability to read a verse or chapter in Greek ! After trying the site out I convinced him that it could be helpful to others so he purchased a new domain name and is making it available to everyone, no ads, no popups, no cost. Anyhow, just wanted to share this here and hoping someone else might find it useful for their studies.

[link removed]

 

[StanJ]

Here's a site that has a great reputation, where you can learn a lot about Greek.

https://www.teknia.com/

 

[Wormwood]

The best way to get a grasp of Greek is to learn the grammar first, then begin building vocab on top of it. Without a knowledge of the endings, tense formatives, etc, it will become almost impossible to memorize the vocabulary of the NT. I suggest getting Mounce's Basics in Biblical Greek and working through chapter by chapter and doing exercises in the workbook.

 

[StanJ]

The best way to get a grasp of Greek is to learn the grammar first, then begin building vocab on top of it. Without a knowledge of the endings, tense formatives, etc, it will become almost impossible to memorize the vocabulary of the NT. I suggest getting Mounce's Basics in Biblical Greek and working through chapter by chapter and doing exercises in the workbook.

Which is what they use at Teknia.com

 

[Wormwood]

Yes, I saw that. Its a great book for learning the basics of Greek grammar. May be challenging to work through individually with no Greek background, but probably the best option out there if someone does not want to take formal classes.

 

[OzSpen]

Yes, I saw that. Its a great book for learning the basics of Greek grammar. May be challenging to work through individually with no Greek background, but probably the best option out there if someone does not want to take formal classes.

As one who reads and teaches NT Greek, I would have found it very difficult to do intro to NT Greek with no background. That was the position I was in way back in 1975 when I took a summer course under Dr Larry Hurtado at Regent College, Vancouver, Canada, using John Wenham's text, The Elements of New Testament Greek (Cambridge University Press). I was so green that I hadn't even learned the Greek alphabet.

For the very first course in NT Greek, I'd recommend going to an actual class if that is at all possible. The in-class experience is invaluable in learning the language. I then went to Northwest College (now Northwest University), Kirkland WA to complete my BA in Biblical Literature and NT Greek. Only this week I submitted my PhD dissertation (dissertation only in the British system) with Greek exegesis required. It all began with that stumbling Greek course in 1975.

In learning a foreign language, I found the need for class interaction and group work to be invaluable. That's some advice from an old fella who loves what learning the Greek language has done to improve his NT exegesis.

I'm not convinced that online learning or studying a text alone has the same value for me as classroom experience had.

In Christ,
Oz

 

[Wormwood]

Oz,

I agree that formal classes are the way to go. I also know that many on this site would not be interested in a formal class. I have studied Greek both formally and independently and I also have always received more out of formal classes. I am curious about your education. What do you mean by, dissertation only in the British system? Did you not have to do the coursework? What is your PhD concentration?

 

[StanJ]

I also agree Oz, but the OP was going in that direction which is why I steered him towards that link. Nothing better than the classroom unless the prof is incompetents. That can't be said for Mounce and his people.

 

[OzSpen]

Oz,

I agree that formal classes are the way to go. I also know that many on this site would not be interested in a formal class. I have studied Greek both formally and independently and I also have always received more out of formal classes. I am curious about your education. What do you mean by, dissertation only in the British system? Did you not have to do the coursework? What is your PhD concentration?

Wormwood,

Doing the course work and then a reduced dissertation is the USA system of education. For those of us associated with the British Empire (as I am in Australia), the primary option is to do the entire PhD as a research-only dissertation. This is what I have done through the University of Pretoria, South Africa. The system is the same there as here in Australia. I've done all of my research, based in Australia.

Normally, the dissertation length is around 200 pages. Mine is 488pp (which includes 60 pages of bibliography). For me, I'm awaiting notification when I'll be examined for an hour on Skype by 5 examiners (1 international, 1 national, and 3 from the Uni of Pretoria's NT faculty). I've had to prepare 10 statements dealing with main features of my dissertation that will be used as a basis for this one-hour discussion/grilling.

The title of my thesis is: 'Crossan and the resurrection of Jesus: Rethinking presuppositions, methods and models'. I'm investigating the presuppositions of John Dominic Crossan of the Jesus Seminar to endeavour to objectively as possible uncover the presuppositions that cause him to concluded that:

• Jesus was not buried in Joseph of Arimathea's tomb; he was buried in a shallow grave and the scavenging dogs were waiting;
• The post-resurrection appearances of Jesus were apparitions (i.e. visions, altered states of consciousness); these apparitions were parallel to those experienced by people in a trance in spiritism when possessed.
• The Emmaus Rd incidence did not happen; it was a metaphorical example.
• All 4 Gospels are megaparables, i.e. they are historical fiction.
• Etc.

I've been working on that radical agenda for the last 5 years of this thesis. It normally doesn't take that long but I started very part time and then retired from employment. I hit a BIG snag in March 2013 when I had my 5th open heart (valve replacement) surgery. I now have artificial mitral and aortic heart valves. Prior to the last surgery I had only the mitral artificial valve. That recovery process took quite a long time.

My PhD concentration is in NT, with a particular emphasis on the historical Jesus and Christian origins. That means there is a fair amount of historical study and I did a large section on the exegesis of 1 Cor 15.

Bed is calling me at 10:51pm Thursday.

In Christ,
Oz

 

[Wormwood]

Hey Oz,

Thanks for getting back with me. That sounds like quite a project. I know those project defenses can cause a good bit of anxiety. Yes, in the USA, course work is required for ATS accredited DMin and PhD programs. DMin programs tend to be more seminar-based (pre course reading (2-3,000 pages - intensive seminars that usually last 1-2 weeks - post course writing (20+ pages)). Depending on the program, there are usually 5-8 seminars which culminates in a Pastoral Research Project/Dissertation (200+ pages). PhD programs generally require residency with daily classes for 4 or so years with a 250+ page Dissertation at the end. They also require research languages such as German or French. However, the ATS is loosening its requirements and I have seen some PhD programs starting to be offered in seminar formats similar to the DMin. If I could do my education over, I would definitely have spent more time in the original languages. I have taken about 3-4 Greek graduate courses and one Hebrew graduate course (I was not a fan of learning Hebrew!). However, I am not yet at the point where I can just pick up an NA28 and read it without having a lexicon handy. Perhaps one day.

I am glad you are doing better with your heart. My son also had a mitral valve replacement. Because he is just a baby, they put in a biological Melody valve...which was somewhat experimental. Generally, the Melody valves are made for the pulmonary valve I believe. However, they were concerned with putting in a mechanical valve because using blood thinners on children is tricky and the stroke risk is high from clots forming on the mechanical valve. He is doing very well now, though.

I hope your project defense is a huge success and I'm sure you'll be Dr. Oz soon!

 

[OzSpen]

Wormwood,

Thanks for your response. I'm familiar with the USA system as my BA and MA are from your institutions. The found the DMin not to be where I wanted to go. This PhD research degree is very rigorous. I've learned a great deal, having to submit an article to a peer-refereed journal (8000-9000 words) as part of the degree.

Amazing that your son has a Melody valve. I wasn't too familiar with it, but have just looked online at an explanation and a graphic example. If blood thinners are tricky for adults like me (been on warfarin since 1983), I can imagine the challenges if given to children. It's so risky with knocks, bruises, bleeding, etc. The benefit is that warfarin bleeding can be stopped fairly quickly.

I have one more point to prepare for 'Statements for the defence'. I've had to prepare 10 points which the examiners may use as a means of discussing with me.

My wife is calling for lunch, so I had better be an obedient husband.

Oz

 

[Wormwood]

Yes, I do not doubt your research degree is a real challenge. Sounds like you have invested a lot in it! I hope your defense statements go well. I completed my DMin about a year ago and am now enrolled in a PhD program. I too would have preferred the PhD, but at the time, there were no PhD programs available that allowed a seminar format (I didn't want to relocate). I am probably going to back off the PhD plan for now as finances and life situations have me jumping. I'd love to hear about books you felt were really compelling in your studies to this point. Im always looking for good reads.

My son is doing great. He will be 2 in about a month. My daughter also recently had an open heart surgery. She was born with Tetrology of Fallot. The surgery went really well and they are not expecting to have to do further surgeries for her. She is 5! There are some things I wish I were more ignorant about....heart surgeries is one of them. LOL

Blessings on your next defense!

 

[OzSpen]

Here's a site that has a great reputation, where you can learn a lot about Greek.

https://www.teknia.com/

Stan,

I've just watched Bill Mounce's presentation on chapter 2 of BBG (Basics of Biblical Greek). He is such a brilliant teacher who makes learning Greek so easy, but challenging. He has thought through the challenge to arrive at the best way to learn Greek. It's a long time since I've sat in a Greek class, but that was a brilliant experience for me.

Thanks a mission for providing this link. I'll be recommending to others if they want to learn Greek.

Regards,
Oz

 

[StanJ]

Stan,

I've just watched Bill Mounce's presentation on chapter 2 of BBG (Basics of Biblical Greek). He is such a brilliant teacher who makes learning Greek so easy, but challenging. He has thought through the challenge to arrive at the best way to learn Greek. It's a long time since I've sat in a Greek class, but that was a brilliant experience for me.

Thanks a mission for providing this link. I'll be recommending to others if they want to learn Greek.

Regards,
Oz

Well he did have a great influence in his life from his father Bob who also worked on the MOUNCE Reverse Greek Interlinear Translations of the NT, and who in his own right is a class A translator. I put them and Wallace in the same class as pre-eminent in our modern world. Oh and Douglas Moo...can't forget Dougie.

 

[aspen]

Nothing wrong with learning Ancient Greek, but I have found it much more helpful to study the history of Ancient Greece.

 

[StanJ]

Nothing wrong with learning Ancient Greek, but I have found it much more helpful to study the history of Ancient Greece.

Actually we are talking about Koine Greek, the Greek of the Bible, NOT ancient Greek. There is a big difference.

 

[aspen]

Actually we are talking about Koine Greek, the Greek of the Bible, NOT ancient Greek. There is a big difference.

Greeks do not speak Koine Greek, today Stan (not that this has anything to do with the point of my post) - they spoke it 2,000 years ago. Since I consider my 95 year old grandmother, ancient; it is likely that I would consider Koine Greek, ancient. Here is a good example of quibbling over words, which instead of leading to more clarity, actually just muddies the water.

Just like in exegesis, quibbling over the trees at the expense of the forest.

 

[StanJ]

Greeks do not speak Koine Greek, today Stan - they spoke it 2,000 years ago. Since I consider my 95 year old grandmother, ancient; it is likely that I would consider Koine Greek, ancient. Here is a good example of quibbling over words, which instead of leading to more clarity, actually just muddies the water.

That's right Aspen, but the OP is about NT Greek, which IS Koine Greek, NOT ancient Greek.
It's not quibbling, it's clarification. I find too many people on forums like CB tend to equivocate instead of succinctly using the proper terminology or vernacular.
If anyone on this thread is confused by this, then please comment as to how you are confused?

 

[aspen]

That's right Aspen, but the OP is about NT Greek, which IS Koine Greek, NOT ancient Greek.
It's not quibbling, it's clarification. I find too many people on forums like CB tend to equivocate instead of succinctly using the proper terminology or vernacular.
If anyone on this thread is confused by this, then please comment as to how you are confused?

Not everyone is succinct. Language can never convey exact meaning. My description of an event will always fall short of reporting exactly what happened - just like the bible. Also, there is nothing wrong with asking for clarification, but it is not always possible. Most of the time, I limit my clarification questions to the meaning of the forest, not the details of the trees.

The Bible was written with broad strokes, not scientific detail




.....

 

[OzSpen]

Nothing wrong with learning Ancient Greek, but I have found it much more helpful to study the history of Ancient Greece.

aspen,

Studying the history of Ancient Greece will not teach anyone the grammar of Koine Greek to be able to exegete the Greek NT. Exegeting Koine Greek is fundamental to understanding the English NT as Koine Greek is the original language of the NT.