Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[Heb 13:8]

I am a Catholic of the Latin Rite.

Rev 19:20

 

[Triumph1300]

 

[Dcopymope]

View attachment 1991

.....well this would be an April fools joke if I've ever seen one.

 

[pia]

... According to your faith be it unto you.

Absolutely, trust which is not always easy, when we can see no way out or if in a lot of pain or other situations, but for sure when we do, we are never disappointed....
I do so agree that people seem to want to keep God at arms length and also put limits on Him, what He should or shouldn't be able to do.......I am learning not to be too surprised at just how much He can do, when we are willing to let Him lol.......

 

[Taken]

I am a Catholic of the Latin rite.

Next . . .

Is your mass conducted in the Latin language?

 

[Taken]

Yup - I DO believe when Scripture says that Christians sin . . .

James 5:16

Therefore CONFESS YOUR SINS to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.

A speaker ~
Speaking TO ~ "your"
You have decided ARE Christians.
They were hearing the Word of God.
They were NOT saved.
They were being taught to confess sins.
Acknowledging they have sin.
Practicing confessing one to another.
Becoming PREPARED to confess to the Lord.
SO THAT, THEY MAY BE HEALED....ie savED.

You don't know the difference between an unsaved follower and a saved follower..
They were NOT savED.

I was speaking of BORN AGAIN MEN.
This scripture has NO APPLICABILITY to saved and born again men.
Of course these men COULD SIN...they were NOT SAVED!

1 John 1:8

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is NOT in us.

Here again. I was speaking of born again men..
And you grab another Scripture that has absolutely nothing to do with born again men!

This scripture is speaking about men WHO CLAIM to HAVE NO SIN.

With a ity bit of common knowledge;
A man who claims to have no sin;
Can not confess to the Lord of having sin!

I was speaking of born again men.
A born again man HAS CONFESSED His sin. Duh!!

I also believe Paul when he said that HE sinned - and called himself a "sinner" . .

.

1 Tim. 1:5

Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners--of whom I am the worst.

Paul - the SAVED and BORN AGAIN ~ "Teacher" is speaking to men, using himself as an example, calling himself the WORST SINNER.

His teaching IS not ABOUT him BEING AN ACTIVE committer of SIN, BUT, as I see you missed the understanding.

Even people who have committed the WORST SINS, can be forgiven, cleansed, healed, and Born of God, LIKE PAUL WAS.

I don't believe YOU - because you are in direct conflict with Scripture, my arrogant friend . . .

ERROR ~ You are without understanding.

You are ignorant to a fault.

A man naturally born in sin....IS A SINNER.
All men ARE SINNERS.
You don't BECOME "UN-BORN".

You FAIL miserably, to comprehend, ONCE a man is naturally born, HE IS A SINNER.

He IS AGAINST GOD.
He is born AGAINST God.

He has to grow, hear about God, Learn about God, hear about Christ the Lord, Learn about Christ the Lord............

And "he" has to DECIDE, "IF" "he" heartfully believes In God, In Christ....

And "he" has to DECIDE, "IF" "he" wants to give "his" SINFUL LIFE "TO" the "Lord Jesus Christ"!

"IF" "he" Decides TO give "his" LIFE "TO" the "Lord Jesus Christ".......
"he" SHALL be ForgivEN ALL of "his" sins!
"he" SHALL BE savED!
"he" SHALL Be Born Again.....NOT UNBORN!
"he" SHALL be Born of an UNcorruptable Seed .....a Seed, that CAN NOT SIN!!!
DUH...Uncorruptable!!! CAN NOT SIN!!

More of your LACK of Understanding...!!

Forgiven SIN....IS forgiven Once and Forever.

The Lord, does not dwell in you, "AND HOPE" you do not COMMIT more sins!!

A man CAN NOT SIN...WHO...IS BORN OF Gods INCORRUPTABLE Seed! Duh!!

The man HAS accomplished and settled Once and for all.....His SIN AGAINST God....and there is NOTHING whatsoever the man CAN DO to AGAIN..."TO".....SIN AGAINST GOD!!!

The Lords Seed DOES NOT BIRTH CORRUPTION!! Duh.. !!

A SIN;
A violation of the Law;
A rule;
A precept;
...."MUST" have a consequence FOR;
The sin, the violation of the law, the rule, the precept.....
TO HAVE ANY FORCE and EFFECT.

You yap repeatedly calling people sinners...
WOW...newsflash....all people are sinners.

But you are not making accusations about their Natural born state......

You make Accusations....that they are COMMITTING A SIN!

You make these Accusations "TO" and "FOR" men who ARE savED and Born Again.

Your accusations are out of a fools mouth!!
Men who are Born Again, are Born "OF" Gods "UNCORRUPTABLE" Seed!

And? Further.... What IS your "supposed" Consequence....for these "supposed" SINS...
"YOU" ARE CLAIMING..."TO" and "FOR" others, BORN OF and "UNCORRUPTABLE" Seed?

Your IMPLICATION is ....the SIN is against YOU!!
Your IMPLICATION is.....YOU should be asked for FORGIVENESS.

WHY? Are "YOU" the forgiver OF SINS?
Uh...No you are not!~

Perhaps "YOU" think the man "YOU" accuse of committing SIN....should go ask the Lord to forgiven them of the SIN..."YOU" accuse.

WHY? Why would a man, BORN of Gods UNCORRUPTABLE Seed...Go asked the Lord to Forgive him...for something WHEN....the Lord has ALREADY TAUGHT, a man HOW to resolve issues "BETWEEN MEN" ?

IOW....WHY go ask your mommy to forgive me, for bopping YOU in the noggin? LOL

YOU wag your tongue....Point your finger...and MAKE foolish Claims...TO and FOR others....WHO ARE BORN of GOD...

AND? What are "YOUR" supposed CONSEQUENCES for the SINS...YOU HAVE CLAIMED..."men born of God" has supposedly committed?

Answer....THERE ARE NO CONSEQUENCES!
Why........Because NO SIN has been Committed!
Why........Because the man IS BORN of an UNCORRUPTABLE Seed!

James 5:16
Is speaking of men NOT healed, NOT savED.

Doesn't apply to a man who IS born of God.
Doesn't apply to me.

1 John 1:8
Is speaking of men NOT savED, NOT born again, since they claim to HAVE NO SIN, they could NOT CONFESS Having SIN.
They have NOT the TRUTH (Christ is the Lord Jesus) IN THEM.

Does not apply to me.

Does not apply to a man who IS born of God,
WHO IS BORN Again, Precisely By Having the Seed of God IN THEM, WHO IS Christ, WHO IS the TRUTH, WHO IS the Seed OF God!

1 John 3:9
Precisely applies to a man Born of Gods UNCORRUPTABLE Seed. Who CAN NOT SIN.
And CAN NOT SIN Precisely BECAUSE the Seed of God, the Truth, thee Spirit of Christ, REMAINS in the man.

Does apply to me.

And apparently DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU, since you can NOT EVEN TRUST the Lords Word IS TRUE.

I quote 1 John 3:9. I say it applies to me.
I said what it says......

AND YOUR response is...YOU MAKE a FALSE accusation TO me FOR me, claiming I do not agree with Scripture.

You have made NUMEROUS FALSE ACCUSATIONS...

You have NOT ONCE...quoted ANYONE speaking their own words...of THEM CLAIMING...

"They have no sin"...
"They are not a sinner"....

You are a FABRICATOR of False accusations.

You Claim YOU ARE BORN AGAIN, without having made your own calling to the Lord.

You Claim YOU are savED, but not really, because you are in the PROCESS of being savED.

You Claim YOU are a "Teacher" and "defender" of the Catholic Church.

Dude....No one is here to be TAUGHT Catholic "WAYS"...and Catholic twisted understanding;
Kind of saved, but not really...
Born of God, because mommy did it for you..
Born of Gods UNcorruptable Seed, and still sins.

Nor is your constant negativity touching.

Leave the nest, Go Learn the Truth, Then Learn to TRUST the Truth, Then decide if you want to commit to the Truth as a man does, and receive the gift of Salvation and the Seed of God........or not.

Or remain as you are, and go spread your psychobabble among other cradle Catholics.

 

[GodsGrace]

Absolutely, and you as well can discuss How they all do apply to you....

Good night for real...lol
God Bless,
Taken

Hi Taken,
Jesus said He did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. To fulfill means to make complete, to fulfill it as He fulfilled many prophesies, He completed them, made them come true.

There were 3 types of Law in the O.T.:
Ceremonial
Civil
Moral

Since Jesus died for us there is no further need of ceremonial law, for instance sacrifices. They have been done away with. Same for civil law. God had intended marriage to be one way, then Moses changed it with a decree of divorce, then Jesus changed it back to how it used to be from the beginning. Also, societies change and we cannot be under the civil law from the O.T.

We are still under the moral law. The 10 commandments, or the Two Great Commandments of Jesus, which would also cover the other 8. The moral law will never change.

So, we are under the moral law.
Jesus told the Apostles to go and make disciples of all the nations, to baptize them and to teach them to observe all that Jesus had commanded. I had said that some commands were only for Apostles -- for instance, I cannot baptize someone unless it's an emergency. This is for a priest or pastor to do. It's HIS calling.

Other than that everything Jesus taught is for everyone. He came to save us from sin and sins, but Jesus also meant to set up the Kingdom of God here on earth. Every enlightened teacher of God wanted to make the world a better place...this is also true of Jesus. He didn't want us to wait to get to heaven to have a better life, He meant for us to start having one right here.

So, yes, everything Jesus taught, and, as a consequence, everything Paul and Peter and John and James taught are also to be followed by us since they learned directly from Jesus. (not all of them).

Which commands of Jesus do you feel YOU are not obligated to follow?

 

[Taken]

Hi Taken,
Jesus said He did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. To fulfill means to make complete, to fulfill it as He fulfilled many prophesies, He completed them, made them come true.

Correct and have said the same.
So, we agree. Jesus fulfilled. The Law was not abolished.

There were 3 types of Law in the O.T.:
Ceremonial
Civil
Moral

And "to whom" were these three "types" of law given?

And what about....the CURSE LAWS? that calls the violation of A Law, A SIN, and the CURSE Laws that give the CONSEQUENCE FOR violating the A Law?

IOW -
WAS there a Curse Law, for not obeying Ceremonies?
WAS there a Curse Law, for not obeying Civil Law?
WAS there a Curse Law, for not obeying Moral Laws?

Since Jesus died for us there is no further need of ceremonial law, for instance sacrifices.

"US"? Gentiles? Gentiles were not given ceremonial laws or made subject to ceremonial laws. What does ceremonial laws no longer needed for Jews, have to do with Gentiles, who never was subject to those Laws?

They have been done away with.

For WHO? Wouldn't that be FOR the Jews who were given the Law?

Same for civil law.

God had intended marriage to be one way, then Moses changed it with a decree of divorce, then Jesus changed it back to how it used to be from the beginning. Also, societies change and we cannot be under the civil law from the O.T.

We are still under the moral law.

Still? The 10 COMMANDEMENTS were given to the Hebrews. And reiterated in the NT, BY Jews, TO Jews, FOR Jews.
When were the 10 COMMANDMENTS given to Gentiles?

The 10 commandments, or the Two Great Commandments of Jesus, which would also cover the other 8. The moral law will never change.

OKAY....NOW the situation CHANGES....

You have spoken of OT LAWS, COMMANDMENTS, given to Hebrews and Jews FROM GOD, From Gods Servants, to Hebrews and to Jews..........NOT Gentiles.

Now arrives the Son of God, the Lord Jesus:
"TO".....seek the LOST.....who? Jews.

Jesus, the Jews, chooses Jewish men, and teaches THEM.....what?

Well, what does LOST mean?
It means they are WITHOUT the OLD OT Ways of their fathers.....

A generational GAP has happened..
OT men USE to consistently SPEAK to their Children ABOUT God, and Gods WAYS, and laws, and consequences....
And then those Children would grow, get married, have families, and consistently SPEAK to their Children ABOUT God, and Gods WAYS, and laws, and consequences...

The Lost Jews Jesus came to....were LOST, because Gods teaching from fathers to children, had DRIFTED away.

Men were NO longer under the CIVIL government of a FAMILY government. With a CLAN, TRIBE "head", teaching the Jewish Family government.

They WERE UNDER the "civil government" of Roman Gentiles! And many Jews, were NOT teaching their children of Jewish Laws, and Jewish Ways as was taught to their Hebrew forefathers.

The Jews (not all, but many) were assimilating into Gentile customs, being UNDER Roman Gentiles Civil Law.

Jesus came AMONG THEM, Because they WERE LOST.

So much of Jesus' teaching....and even His disciples He subsequently "sends OUT to preach to LOST Jews"...

DID several things.
It brings UP the OT Laws of their forefathers;
Their ways and customs and faithfulness to God.
WHY? Why speak of the OLD?

Because they had drifted away from KNOWING what the OLD WAS!

Jesus was there to INTRODUCE them to a NEW WAY.
They were Jews. Without a SENSE of the OLD WAY "OF" the Jews.....what SENSE would a NEW WAY for the Jews....BE understood?

IOW...here is something NEW...NEW? Huh...
NEW, compared to WHAT? THE OLD...
Uh...I'm Lost....what was the OLD?

There is a continuous reference to the OLD, to INTRODUCE the NEW.

The OLD, was for Hebrews and Jews TO BE SUBJECT "TO" the Law.

An OT man "showed" His "faithfulness TO GOD"...."BY" obeying the LAW.

An OT man "WHO" violated A Law...was given a "penalty"....which was his CONSEQUENCE for the violation of A LAW.

The "penalty"...or otherwise CONSEQUENCE...was found in OTHER Laws..
Called CURSE LAWS...

The CURSE LAWS....were written and kept BY the Priests, APPOINTED BY GOD.

At the time of Moses...
Mose wrote the (positive) Laws...the Laws men WERE TO DO. And BTW, Laws all the men WERE SUBJECT TO.....BECAUSE, they ALL AGREED they WOULD OBEY those Laws.

Aaron was appointed Priest BY GOD. And that Priest-hood, was generationally descend to Aaron's sons...as GOD Declared.

When a man Violated Moses' (positive) Laws; they were Sent to the Priest, to see IF indeed a violation occurred.....IF a violation was found to have occurred.......Arron, the Priest, would LOOK in HIS (negative) Curse Law Book, to Pronouce the Penalty...or otherwise the "Consequence" FOR that man Violating Moses' Law.

Later...as the populations increased, people spread out; we find the People of Israel divided INTO "TRIBES"...a similar method continued...12 Tribes...11 Tribes to settle on particular Lands//..and 1 Tribe to be the Priests, who would travel among the 11 Tribes and Preach and Teach the Word of God, AMONG the Jewish Men, so they may then go to their Homes, as the Head of their family, and Teach their families (wife, children, servants) About the Word of God.

That began to FAIL. Jews spread out further.
Jewish Tribes argued BETWENN the TRIBES, they began separating and BEING one against the other.

They subsequently became OVERTAKEN, "by"
Gentile Kings and his servants.

AND...thus...the Jews BECAME Lost...Divided..and subject to the Gentiles.

Jesus came to SAVE the Lost Jews.
Jews who had LOST their way of KNOWING
ABOUT GOD.
Jesus did NOT come to rescue Gentiles who were "CIVILLY" controlling everything.

AND HOW Jesus came to SAVE the Lost Jews, was to TEACH THEM...A NEW WAY.

Sadly MANY of the Jews, EXPECTED a Messiah to arrive AND SAVE THEM.....FROM the control of the Gentile Kings. TO get rid of the Gentiles...controlling the land, dictation their civil laws, making the Jews be subject to the Gentiles.

Jesus didn't come to kick the Gentiles out of the land, or abolish Gentile Roman Laws, or Make the Jews live forever in their earthly bodies, in their own land, with the Messiah sitting on a throne keeping them from harm and living for eternity.

Jesus came to offer Forgiveness ONCE and forever. To offer Salvation ONCE and forever.
To offer a new birth from an uncorruptable seed, to be within the man forever.

Some Jews, openly listened about this NEW, being offered by Jesus, the Jew, the Son of God.

Some Jews accepted His teaching. Many didn't.

Some who vehemently REJECTED Jesus' teaching were......the Pharisees....the ones expertly Read, who knew HOW TO READ, the OT Laws...the OT Ways..

But remember....Jesus DID NOT GO recruit followers OUT OF THE Temple...Jesus came seeking the ones LOST to the OLD WAYS.

(Not saying all Jews had no clue of OT Ways, but rather the method of practicing, hearing and teaching their own children had diminished greatly).

Continued.

Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

Correct and have said the same.
So, we agree. Jesus fulfilled. The Law was not abolished.



And "to whom" were these three "types" of law given?

And what about....the CURSE LAWS? that calls the violation of A Law, A SIN, and the CURSE Laws that give the CONSEQUENCE FOR violating the A Law?

IOW -
WAS there a Curse Law, for not obeying Ceremonies?
WAS there a Curse Law, for not obeying Civil Law?
WAS there a Curse Law, for not obeying Moral Laws?



"US"? Gentiles? Gentiles were not given ceremonial laws or made subject to ceremonial laws. What does ceremonial laws no longer needed for Jews, have to do with Gentiles, who never was subject to those Laws?



For WHO? Wouldn't that be FOR the Jews who were given the Law?







Still? The 10 COMMANDEMENTS were given to the Hebrews. And reiterated in the NT, BY Jews, TO Jews, FOR Jews.
When were the 10 COMMANDMENTS given to Gentiles?



OKAY....NOW the situation CHANGES....

You have spoken of OT LAWS, COMMANDMENTS, given to Hebrews and Jews FROM GOD, From Gods Servants, to Hebrews and to Jews..........NOT Gentiles.

Now arrives the Son of God, the Lord Jesus:
"TO".....seek the LOST.....who? Jews.

Jesus, the Jews, chooses Jewish men, and teaches THEM.....what?

Well, what does LOST mean?
It means they are WITHOUT the OLD OT Ways of their fathers.....

A generational GAP has happened..
OT men USE to consistently SPEAK to their Children ABOUT God, and Gods WAYS, and laws, and consequences....
And then those Children would grow, get married, have families, and consistently SPEAK to their Children ABOUT God, and Gods WAYS, and laws, and consequences...

The Lost Jews Jesus came to....were LOST, because Gods teaching from fathers to children, had DRIFTED away.

Men were NO longer under the CIVIL government of a FAMILY government. With a CLAN, TRIBE "head", teaching the Jewish Family government.

They WERE UNDER the "civil government" of Roman Gentiles! And many Jews, were NOT teaching their children of Jewish Laws, and Jewish Ways as was taught to their Hebrew forefathers.

The Jews (not all, but many) were assimilating into Gentile customs, being UNDER Roman Gentiles Civil Law.

Jesus came AMONG THEM, Because they WERE LOST.

So much of Jesus' teaching....and even His disciples He subsequently "sends OUT to preach to LOST Jews"...

DID several things.
It brings UP the OT Laws of their forefathers;
Their ways and customs and faithfulness to God.
WHY? Why speak of the OLD?

Because they had drifted away from KNOWING what the OLD WAS!

Jesus was there to INTRODUCE them to a NEW WAY.
They were Jews. Without a SENSE of the OLD WAY "OF" the Jews.....what SENSE would a NEW WAY for the Jews....BE understood?

IOW...here is something NEW...NEW? Huh...
NEW, compared to WHAT? THE OLD...
Uh...I'm Lost....what was the OLD?

There is a continuous reference to the OLD, to INTRODUCE the NEW.

The OLD, was for Hebrews and Jews TO BE SUBJECT "TO" the Law.

An OT man "showed" His "faithfulness TO GOD"...."BY" obeying the LAW.

An OT man "WHO" violated A Law...was given a "penalty"....which was his CONSEQUENCE for the violation of A LAW.

The "penalty"...or otherwise CONSEQUENCE...was found in OTHER Laws..
Called CURSE LAWS...

The CURSE LAWS....were written and kept BY the Priests, APPOINTED BY GOD.

At the time of Moses...
Mose wrote the (positive) Laws...the Laws men WERE TO DO. And BTW, Laws all the men WERE SUBJECT TO.....BECAUSE, they ALL AGREED they WOULD OBEY those Laws.

Aaron was appointed Priest BY GOD. And that Priest-hood, was generationally descend to Aaron's sons...as GOD Declared.

When a man Violated Moses' (positive) Laws; they were Sent to the Priest, to see IF indeed a violation occurred.....IF a violation was found to have occurred.......Arron, the Priest, would LOOK in HIS (negative) Curse Law Book, to Pronouce the Penalty...or otherwise the "Consequence" FOR that man Violating Moses' Law.

Later...as the populations increased, people spread out; we find the People of Israel divided INTO "TRIBES"...a similar method continued...12 Tribes...11 Tribes to settle on particular Lands//..and 1 Tribe to be the Priests, who would travel among the 11 Tribes and Preach and Teach the Word of God, AMONG the Jewish Men, so they may then go to their Homes, as the Head of their family, and Teach their families (wife, children, servants) About the Word of God.

That began to FAIL. Jews spread out further.
Jewish Tribes argued BETWENN the TRIBES, they began separating and BEING one against the other.

They subsequently became OVERTAKEN, "by"
Gentile Kings and his servants.

AND...thus...the Jews BECAME Lost...Divided..and subject to the Gentiles.

Jesus came to SAVE the Lost Jews.
Jews who had LOST their way of KNOWING
ABOUT GOD.
Jesus did NOT come to rescue Gentiles who were "CIVILLY" controlling everything.

AND HOW Jesus came to SAVE the Lost Jews, was to TEACH THEM...A NEW WAY.

Sadly MANY of the Jews, EXPECTED a Messiah to arrive AND SAVE THEM.....FROM the control of the Gentile Kings. TO get rid of the Gentiles...controlling the land, dictation their civil laws, making the Jews be subject to the Gentiles.

Jesus didn't come to kick the Gentiles out of the land, or abolish Gentile Roman Laws, or Make the Jews live forever in their earthly bodies, in their own land, with the Messiah sitting on a throne keeping them from harm and living for eternity.

Jesus came to offer Forgiveness ONCE and forever. To offer Salvation ONCE and forever.
To offer a new birth from an uncorruptable seed, to be within the man forever.

Some Jews, openly listened about this NEW, being offered by Jesus, the Jew, the Son of God.

Some Jews accepted His teaching. Many didn't.

Some who vehemently REJECTED Jesus' teaching were......the Pharisees....the ones expertly Read, who knew HOW TO READ, the OT Laws...the OT Ways..

But remember....Jesus DID NOT GO recruit followers OUT OF THE Temple...Jesus came seeking the ones LOST to the OLD WAYS.

(Not saying all Jews had no clue of OT Ways, but rather the method of practicing, hearing and teaching their own children had diminished greatly).

Continued.

Taken

Continued!
Oh boy.
So far, I get what you're saying and agree.
Jesus came to the lost sheep of Israel.
But we're going to get grafted in...
I'll wait for part two.

Oh. And yes, in the O.T. men were made righteous of their own actions, in the N.T. we are made righteous by Jesus.

Re curses: Every covenant had both blessings and curses. The N.C. has no curses...you just are required to belong to it.

 

[bbyrd009]

Please clarify

ah, sorry; confession of sin is not "confessing" to be a follower of Christ? That would be "professing?"

 

[Taken]

So, we are under the moral law.

WE? you have yet to establish WHEN and HOW a Gentile became under ANY Laws, given the Hebrews and Jews.

Jesus told the Apostles to go and make disciples of all the nations, to baptize them and to teach them to observe all that Jesus had commanded. I had said that some commands were only for Apostles -- for instance, I cannot baptize someone unless it's an emergency. This is for a priest or pastor to do. It's HIS calling.

Yes Jesus told His disciples they would be sent out TO DO WHAT? Primarily TO WHOM?

To spread the Gospel OF Jesus.
Primarily TO, the same WHOM Jesus sought..
THE LOST JEWS.

AND? With WHAT were the disciples prepared with .... ??

THEY were prepared AS Apostles and armed with the whole armor of God, the Spirit of God, the Truth in them, with Power to teach, and peach, and cast out demons, and lay hands on the sick that the Lord may heal them, and TEACH HOW THEY MAY ALSO be forgiven, saved, born again....committed to Christ the Lord Jesus.

Wherever they went, as they did Two Apostles together, testisifying of Christ the Lord Jesus, and teaching and preaching.....Gentiles WERE not banned from Hearing.

Some Jews accepted this NEW teaching that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, the WAY, His Way, to a once forgiveness, a once receiving of salvation, a once becoming born OF God, AND making their "commitment" and "subjection" "TO" this Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, to now and forever BE WITH HIM.

And Many Gentiles hearing, began also believing, and MAKING THEIR "COMMITEMENT" and "SUBJECTION" "TO" this Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, to now and forever BE WITH HIM.

So, Exactly when did a Gentile SUBJECT themselves to ANY Hebrew or Jewish LAW?

They Didn't. They Subjected themselves "TO CHIRST THE Lord Jesus".

So here we stand... You are still talking about men being subjected TO Laws...and I am talking about men who SUBJECTED themselves to CHRIST.

Continued...

Taken

 

[Taken]

Continued!
Oh boy.
So far, I get what you're saying and agree.
Jesus came to the lost sheep of Israel.
But we're going to get grafted in...
I'll wait for part two.

Oh. And yes, in the O.T. men were made righteous of their own actions, in the N.T. we are made righteous by Jesus.

Re curses: Every covenant had both blessings and curses. The N.C. has no curses...you just are required to belong to it.

Okay...so, so far, on the same page.

Taken

 

[Taken]

Reintegrating...Gentiles were NOT under any Hebrew or Jewish Law.

Agree, Yes Jesus fulfilled the Law.
Agree, Yes Some Jews accepted Him, and His fulfment of Jewish Laws.
Agree, Yes Jews were redeemed from the consequences of disobedience TO Jewish Law.
Agree, Gentiles had no "curse, consequence" Laws they were Subject TO....for...them to be redeemed FROM the consequences of NOT Obeying the Law.

Jews that DID NOT ACCEPT Jesus...they are they Jews who did not (do not), subject themselves TO HIM. He is NOT their Lord and Savior.

Thus THEY continue UNDER the Law, they continue being SUBJECT TO the curse laws, the consequences of VIOLATING the Law.
They continues with the ceremonies, festivals, asking repeatedly for forgiveness of their sins, OF violating their laws....THEY must endure ... KEEPING their LAW to their end...TO "BECOME" saved.

Now on to a Gentile (or Jew)....WHO subjects themself "TO" Christ, the Lord Jesus.

The Subjection IS TO Christ...NOT TO Laws...

Other than that everything Jesus taught is for everyone.

Jesus' teaching began toward the Jews FOR Jews. Jesus chose Jewsish men for this task.

Because since the beginning...Gods chosen people have always been appointed as the Teachers OF HIS WORD...

And...While Hebrews were First taught, to teach their own....And they did teach Gentiles that CAME AMONG them, to their land, their cities.....they DID NOT go out and spread the Word of God to all nations of Gentiles.

Even the Disciples, sent out, were still mostly focused on teaching Jews.

Now enter Paul. A Pharisee, steeped in expert knowledge and faith in the Hebrew/Jewish God...vehemently Against this "imposter" called Jesus teaching He IS the Son of God, thee Christ they are calling Him, thee King of the Jews....and all the Jews following after Him......mixing with these Gentiles following after Him....ALL believing the same things this "imposter" is teaching.....About the Jewish God..... Absolutely Paul was against these people..."jew traders"..."gentile fools"..
None of them, be good, for anything but to corrupt the Jewish God....as so his story conveys.

Paul ... the devoted faithful to God, to the Law....is chosen By the Lord Jesus, After the Lord Jesus, had bodily departed the earth.

WHY? And to do what?


Continued.

 

[Taken]

....

Continued..

Paul. WHY Paul?
Precisely because he was faithful to God...
AND...his position as a Pharisee....since we know it was the Pharisee's who stood firmly Against Jesus, and encouraged other Jews to do the same.

And Because Paul was UNIQUE, from the other Pharisees. Paul was a Roman Citizen.
Paul could wander about Rome, and other Roman territories, with the protection afforded Roman Citizens....unlike the other Jewish Apostles....who mainly taught to Jews, in their "areas", within the jurisdiction of the Roman Empire.

Paul was A Jewish Pharisee, and son of a Jewish Pharisee...Paul's father was a Roman citizen, thus Paul was a Roman citizen..
(And How that came about for Paul's father to be a Romans citizen, is yet another story).

So, Paul hears from the Lord Jesus, and In short, Believes WHO he is hearing from, and WHAT he is hearing. And goes to Arabia, 3 years (nearly the same amount of times as were the disciples taught) to be taught of the Lord Jesus' Spirit, things the other disciples were taught, by Jesus, bodily. Paul, like the other Apostles, becomes saved and born again, indwelt with the Holy Spirit, is armed with the TRUTH of Jesus, in his heart...

And .... begins testifying and teaching Christ the Lord Jesus, and teaching His Way of HOW TO, subject oneself TO CHRIST, and Become Forgiven, Saved and Born Again.....
Teaching TO...primarily Gentiles...but like with the other Apostles...Jews were not banned from Listening to Paul speak.

NOW...IS the process of GRAFTING IN the Gentiles on a BROAD scale commencing..

Other than that

I added, only a brief, there are many more details. And STILL...at no time were Gentiles, subject TO, or Under the Hebrew or Jewish Laws...which IS important...
Since "christians"...continuously CLAIM that are NOT Under the LAW....but absolutely DO, USE the LAW....subject themselves TO the Laws....and the Consequences of violating the Laws....WHICH were Precisely CALLED committing a SIN.

IOW - Christians...pay LIP service...
Not under the Law....but then claim they violate the Law! And their "violation" of the Law....is their consequence...they call committing a SIN.

everything Jesus taught is for everyone.

Agree. It had been established from the beginning...The Word of God is Paramount..
And that the Word of God was to be:
Spoken, said, taught, rehearsed in the ears of children, that they grow and do the same, and spread the Word of God throughout the World.

Jesus EFFECTED and accomplished that...BY teaching teachers and sending them to the Jews...AND BY teaching Paul and sending him to the Gentiles. For the Whole World to Hear and the writings to be written and copied and sent out to the Whole World, for People to read....the Word of God....and thus...the Gentiles continue to this day....and the Jews, who BelievED in Christ died off...and the Jews, (mostly, not all), went back to the OLD WAYS, (the OLD law, Jesus, DID NOT abolish)...subjecting themselves TO THE LAW.
And NOT "TO CHRIST".

He came to save us from sin and sins,

Actually Jesus came "TO OFFER"...
"BY HIM"....and...."THROUGH HIM"
Forgiveness, Salvation, a New Birth, an Eternal Life with God....
to Everyone.....

And ^ THAT ^ IS the good news Gospel OF Lord Jesus thee Christ..that was given to Every Apostle for them to teach and preach......to the Jews...to the Gentiles..

To be continued...

Addressing your comments further...now...

but Jesus also meant to set up the Kingdom of God here on earth.

No, I would not say "MEANT to". Rather He REVEALD it is already "ESTABLISHED"... BUT not YET, are earthly men, ABEL to "physically" SEE his Kingdom....because they still have natural eyes....But his REVEALING it is Established....a man IN A spiritual NEWNESS, can comprehend....it IS established...and we WAIT TO SEE IT...with SUPERNATURAL eyes.

Every enlightened teacher of God wanted to make the world a better place...this is also true of Jesus.

Better place...is rather general.
More specifically...I would say...To teach the enlightment of what IS offered, is now, is permanent, is eternal....AND WHILE men still exist on this earth, despite the chaos of evil and wickedness and corruption....
To Teach for One TO SUBJECT oneself TO Christ.
And
TO sew Harmony Among Men.
And
Those who desire to hear, be subject TO Christ, will come and hear or not.
Offer to teach...and let the ones who reject, reject, and move on, teaching another.

He didn't want us to wait to get to heaven to have a better life, He meant for us to start having one right here.

Agree.

On to continuing...from where I left off..of the Apostles ... teaching...

Taken

 

[Triumph1300]

And goes to Arabia, 3 years (nearly the same amount of times as were the disciples taught)

Your premise is incorrect. Paul doesn’t say he stayed in Arabia 3 years.

Look more closely at his wording in Gal.1:17-18: “…but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus. THEN after three years I went up to Jerusalem…”
The 3 years was after he’d returned to Jerusalem.

Nobody has any idea how long he was in Arabia.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your turn to answer, not ask!

Answer what??

 

[BreadOfLife]

You fail.
No more questions are necessary.

Translation: "I don't know HOW to have a grown-up conversation."

 

[BreadOfLife]

Rev 19:20

What does this verse have to do with the fact that I am a Catholic of the Latin Rite??
Posting obscure and irrelevant Scripture references only serves to show your Scriptural ignorance.

Stick to the topic . . .

 

[Taken]

..

The Apostles...were NOT teaching LAWS.
Nor were the Apostles teaching for a man to SUBJECT himself TO LAWS.

The Apostles were teaching TO SUBJECT oneself TO CHRIST

So, yes, everything Jesus taught,

"Everything Jesus taught"...NOW to the nitty gritty....WHAT "WAS" Jesus teaching?

LAWS? Um...no.

And WHO, was SUBJECT TO, Jesus' TEACHING?

Everyone? Um...no.

And Subsequently...what Jesus had done...He sent Jewish Apostles out to primarily teach Jews....and sent ONE Jewish Pharisee Roman citizen out to primarily teach Gentiles...the same Jesus taught....

Jesus' teaching and the subsequent Apostles teaching...was of the same of WHAT to teach and the same design of HOW TO Teach...

Go to an area, announce yourself, or send another ahead of you to announce they would be speaking....AND ANYONE who wanted to hear, could CHOOSE to go and hear or not. Or start hearing, and walk away.

The design of How to Teach, is the same today...Churches INVITE, open invitation, announce when, where....Marquee, newspapers, radio stations, etc.

Jesus was NOT teaching LAWS.
And Jesus was NOT teaching SIN was a Consequence of violating what He was teaching.

On to the POINT...

Jesus' teaching and the Apostles teaching...
IS..
There is GOOD NEWS Being OFFERED and given to every single person...........WHO desires to Hear the GOOD NEWS.

No one is forced to Hear, or Do, or Believe, or Accept the Good News being Offered.

However the ones WHO DO.....they Hear of what IS being OFFERED, By and Through the Good News of this man, called the Son of God, Jesus, the Lord, Christ, Savior and Quickeneing Spirit and Power of God.

The OFFERING to Hear the Good News, the Gospel, the Word of God... is FREE ...and... for Everyone WHO chooses to Hear.

The OFFERING of particular GIFTS, HAS a REQUIREMENT.

The REQUIREMENT IS...IF a man Desires to TAKE and ACCEPT "offered" Gifts...the man MUST "heartfully" BELIEVE "IN" the one "offering" the gifts...ie Christ the Lord Jesus.

AND a WARNING and NOTICE is TAUGHT...to one THINKING ABOUT "TAKING" of gifts...
THAT...

THE "ACCEPTING" of the gifts, IS a forever ACCEPTANCE. It's NON returnable!!
It is permanent Forever Gifts!

SO THUS....BE SURE of exercising your freewill to take His gifts...

BE SURE...to KNOW, what YOUR CHOICE MEANS! You ARE giving "YOUR LIFE" to thee "Lord" expressly for Him to FOREVER CHANGE your LIFE.

So...there IS a Lull...a time between Freely Hearing....and a man Deciding....whether or not he wants to "ACCEPT" the ONCE and FOREVER gifts offered...or not.

And Part of the Gifts being Offered IS FORGIVENESS OF SINS.

What SINS does a Jew, under the Law have?
Being born in sin (which may or may not be a surprise to him, IDK).
And every LAW he violated that was not forgiven for...(through a yearly sacrifice of his own pure animal offering and it's blood being spilled)...AND for a Jew...Every WORK he did that WAS NOT glorifying to GOD....AND for a Jews....Every WORK to glorify God, he could have done, and didn't...<--- those are a Jews sins.
Once forgiven, and changed....He is NO LONGER UNDER the LAW. There are NO Consequense of a SIN Law unto him.
He is Freed from SIN, by the POWER of Christ. And KEPT free from SIN, by the POWER of Christ within him

What are a Gentiles Sins? Who is not under the Law?
Being born in sin.
Not believing in God.
Not believing in His Christ.
Corrupting his good soul God gave him, by his soul being IN a corrupt body of sinful flesh.
^ THOSE are a Gentiles Sins. That is precisely what the Gift of Forgiveness is given to a Gentile man WHO subjects Himself "TO CHRIST."
Once forgiven and change that man is FREED from his sin...of not believing in God, in Christ, and having corrupt his soul.

So NOW what is a man SUPPOSED to do THAT is NOT under the Law, the curse laws, Freed from SIN. SUBJECT TO CHRIST, and indwelt with the POWER of God, to KEEP forever the man faithful TO God...?

Start pretending the Law applies to Him?
Start calling everyone a sinner?
Awe, awe, you sinned, you sinned, blah, blah?

No. A man who has subjected himself TO CHRIST, given his life TO CHRIST....is supposed to ... if he hasn't already, LEARNED, (which he should have BEFORE making a commitment TO CHIRST)...

Gods PRECEPTS. And what exactaly IS a PRECEPT?

A PRECEPT is a mode of acceptable BEHAVIOR. It is acceptable behavior of the man TOWARD His God, His Lord, and among other men.

Some examples:

TOWARD His God, His Lord...acceptable behavior is to Exalt Him Above all other things; to Love Him Above all other things; to Bless Him; to Serve Him in a manner that Glorifies His Name on Earth; to speak His Word..."according to"...His knowledge, His Wisdom, His Understanding. TO diligently SEEK His Lord, for HIS knowledge, His wisdom, His understanding. TO KEEP a constant fellowship with his Lord, his God.

A PRECEPT of such a man among men...
To love all other men, to congregate among men of his like kind (brothers IN CHRIST) to editify one another, to give gladly give a helping hand, to correct one another with truths, to forgive their trespasses on against the other, to speak the Word of God in Truth, to study, learn, more of the Lords Truths, to fellowship with the Lord, to .......
CONFORM his OWN carnal mind; TO the truths being fed to his own spirit, in his own new heart, BY the Spirit of the Lord.

And WHERE do we FIND these PRECEPTS THAT ARE acceptable TO THE Lord....
IN Scripture!

AND...so a man DOES Learn, and DO do such Preceipts....(that you may or may not be calling "moral" laws....which is in error...and implies men who have made themselves SUBJECT TO CHIRST, and subjecting themselves TO LAWS, when they are not.
They are subjecting themselves TO CHRIST!)

So a man does accomplish doing these precepts....then what?
He is called....Walking in the spriit.
He is called....being perfect.

AND IF a man does NOT DO these Precepts?
Or does some but not all?
Or does some but still learning more?

If a man is doing ANY of these Precepts, he is walking in the spirit.
If he has grown, matured, become wise, become disciplined, he is walking in the spirit and heading toward perfection.

IF a man DOES NOT do any....then what?
He is grieving the Holy Spirit.

Express point...A man being subjected TO CHIRST...is not subjecting himself to the LAW.
He is being "recreated" forgiven of his sins, sanctified, his soul saved unto forever life, his spirit quickened to forever life...his body justifed and kept with Christ to be redeemed to his Glorious Lord and his body be glorified in his Lords likeness...he is dwelling alive forever, with his Lord, his God, forever.

But, but, but, ....is there NO SIN consequence for NOT doing the Lords PRECEPTS?

A SIN consequence, NO. A consequence? Yes.

His consequences IS: in brief..
He loses out on receiving blessing, while still on earth.
He loses out on receiving rewards, when he is redeemed.
He loses out on a high servants position in the Lords Kingdom.
He has to deal within his own inner feelings for having "grieved the Holy Spirit".
He has to deal within his own inner feelings of having been a crummy servant.
He has to deal with the consequences of his strife with other people...neighbors, family, spouse, co-workers, civil authorities...etc.

Summary...
A man WHO heartfully subjects Himself TO CHRIST, is a man FREED from and forgiven all of His Sins...
IS permanently and forever internally changed and forever alive with his Lord, his God.
Has a laundry list of PRECEPTS he can do to exalt the Lord and project harmony among men, and for such, shall be greatly blessed and rewarded.
Can grieve the Holy Spirit...
Can SIN no more.
And can diligently continuing learning his Lords truths, knowledge, wisdom, understanding...VIA the man spirit in fellowship WITH his indwelling Lords Spirit.

Which commands of Jesus do you feel YOU are not obligated to follow?

It is not about me following a Command.
Commandments are LAWS...

It has been proved over and over men CAN NOT continuously follow and OBEY LAWS.

A man IN CHRIST, IS obedient TO HIS COMMANDES...BY the Lord POWER!

Remember....men are Weak, they fail, they can not KEEP on the STRICT straight and narrow 24-7. They can do NOTHING "OF" themselves.

Remember....a man subjecting HIMSELF...is the whole of Him....SELF....GIVING HIS LIFE TO CHRIST.... The WHOLE of the man, (body, soul, spirit) to the WHOLE of Christ...and Christ MAKES the man WHOLE.....WHOLE, WHOLLY acceptable TO CHRIST Himself.

IOW - men in Christ can ONLY obey Christ's commands....BY HIS POWER within them.
Love my enemies, pfft. What does the carnal mind say...?? Eh, no thank you!!
I have NO PROBLEM loving my enemies. Loving all people. It's the Lords Power within us that we can and do. (And that is another lengthy discussion)

I know this has been long...and not your cup of tea for a long posts. However, this is in reality, brief...but does give some incite to a bigger picture.

I have ZERO issues with claiming I sin no more. I know WHY. I sit and watch men claim saved, born again....and not under the law....then endlessly spout they are under the law, and sin, and ........what? Then what were they saved FROM...hell? Is that the highlight for double talk?

They are not being saved FROM Hell. Hell is a consequence for NOT giving their Life to Christ.

They are being saved FROM the consequences of SIN....which IS death and separation FROM God.
They are being saved UNTO the Lord...unto Life eternal.
UNTO the Lord...because they have BECOME HIS INHERITANCE!

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

Is your mass conducted in the Latin language?

The extraordinary form, yes - not on the ordinary form.