Open Discussion of UR Chapter Three - God's character

[Behold]

How do you understand this part?

Ephesians 4:13-14 KJV
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,

That's the renewed mind in believers..... that is the "unity of the faith".
"the unity of the faith", is correct spiritual understanding, shared by all who understand the "knowledge of the Son of God" correctly.

Let me show you what i mean, reader.
Why does a member here have a recent Thread that is 75 pages of fighting about Salvation?
Just pure Chaos.
Its because it only takes one who has no understanding of "the unity of the Faith", as the renewed mind...that is based on their not understanding exactly how Christ is Salvation and Righteousness...to cause that convoluted strife filled situation on every forum.
And GOD knows these types are on every "christian" forum.......like a spiritual infection.

Another example..... is that It only takes one who believes that water washes away your sin, and that one posts a lot of Threads, and that is just chaos generating confusion.

The Holy Spirit, is angered by any false presentation of Salvation, and that is because it denies Jesus's Cross and "does despite to the Spirit of GRACE"..
Welcome to Calvinism and "baptismal regeneration", that parks and preaches on "christian" forums = loud and proud.

Why is it that of 100 people on a forum who profess faith in Christ....... 94 of them do not believe that Jesus who saved them, Keeps them Saved?

See that wrong mind?
Can that wrong mind be in unity with the other 6 who understand the Cross of Christ?
Never.
That is why there is no unity of the FAITH.......FAITH........>it because of a FAITH issue, that drives strife, and confusion.

If there was "unity" regarding FAITH...what this really is, as related to the BLOOD ATONEMENT... that is the correct understanding of Jesus AS Salvation, and that NOT OF WORKS or water, or commandments, or self effort, then peace would abound on forums and between denominations.
It'll never happen, because the god of this world is very very busy, making sure that the born again, continually "fall from Grace"., into the "mind of the flesh" that is unable to come to any unity of the Faith with anyone or any denomination that has the renewed mind that IS the UNITY of "the faith".

Hebrews 13:9....tells us what we have to do, to exist in the unity of the Faith.

"establish YOUR HEART with GRACE".......

What heart? The HEART of your Faith.........and that is not water baptism, or Calvinism, or works, or self effort, or trying to stay saved, or trying to be good.
Its none of that self righteousness.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
That's the glue that holds all the DIFFERENT parts together. IMHO

I don't understand.

"the unity of the faith and knowledge", isn't this having the same faith, the same knowledge?

This gets back to what I said about no consensus.

For the sake of discussion, let's say you are right, that's exactly what we need.
Problem is, how do you implement such an idea?

If there is no agreement about WHAT the same faith and same knowledge is.
You would have to pick one set of beliefs to go with. Should we vote? - LOL

 

[marks]

the god of this world is very very busy, making sure that the born again, continually "fall from Grace"., into the "mind of the flesh" that is unable to come to any unity of the Faith with anyone or any denomination that has the renewed mind that IS the UNITY of "the faith".

Well said! All of it, not just this part. This part, though, what an apt description!

Much love!

 

[St. SteVen]

Bad Theology that fosters and generates wrong belief, is the wall.

What is the bridge then?

 

[St. SteVen]

Frankly, we should get back on topic soon. Thanks.
From the OP:

Does your experience with God tell you that he is a fearful judge, or a loving Father?

Has he not shown love and care for you? Does not the life-giving rain fall on the lands of the righteous and sinners?

Does a sparrow fall without his notice? Consider how the flowers of the field are adorned, will he not clothe you as well?
The very hairs of your head are numbered. His knowledge and care for us is overwhelming.

Does this end at the afterlife?

 

[marks]

For the sake of discussion, let's say you re right, that's exactly what we need.
Problem is, how do you implement such an idea?

If there is no agreement about WHAT the same faith and same knowledge is.
You would have to pick one set of beliefs to go with. Should we vote? - LOL

Personally, I find this is what results when we take each passage of the Bible, and interpret it as plainly and literally as possible, according to the normal use of language, particularly of that time. Reading that way, and finding the harmony between the passages which may seem at odds with each other, in ways that are verifiable in the plain statements of the Bible, in my experience, results in a common understanding.

In virtually every Scriptural debate I've engaged in over the past 20 years I've been on these forums, the end, if someone is actually willing to follow it all the way through, it comes to someone saying, "This verse SAYS this, but it actually MEANS that." Now, metonymy is a valid principle in language, but greatly overused, and in general, I'm talking about things like, "Such and such happens after such and such", and someone will say, this is ACTUALLY this other thing, which is at a different time. And not just prophecy, pretty much every debate.

Sometimes I come to realize that I've been guilty of not fully receiving the saying of the passage. When that happens, I've received a great gift! I find over and over there is a big difference in how we read the Bible, and that difference has a great deal to do with why we don't agree.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

What is the bridge then?

"establish your heart with GRACE"

Hebrews 13:9

If you do that, if all the born again do that, as their BELIEF SYSTEM, then the rest of that verse, wont happen to them.
They wont be swept way, caught up, and deceived by :"Doctrines of Devils'...
If they dont, if you dont, "establish your heart with GRACE"..... then you will be owned by a cult.......there is no way out of it, no way to protect yourself from them, as spiritual darkness, is stronger than you are., reader.

Listen....

Jesus fasted for 40 Days, and then He dealt with SATAN "one on one".
Do you understand?
You are no match for the Devil, unless you have so clothed yourself in the understanding of the Grace of God, that is the finished work of Jesus on the Cross....... and even then, you have to maintain your FAITH against this world, your flesh, and that Devil.
This is why Paul told you to Prove you are in the right faith, and Jude told you to CONTEND For the REAL FAITH.
If you dont then a FALSE faith, will deceive you.

This is why Paul tells you to put on the Armor of God so that you can "STAND" against the Devil.
The DEVIL does not come to you in a red suit. He comes to you using a PREACHER, a CHURCH, a FORUM member, your own family.... WRONG DOCTRINE.<<<<<False Theology.
You can't withstand his spiritual darkness unless you put on REAL FAITH, and the main part is the Helmet of SALVATiON, as that is YOUR MIND where right or wrong believing LIVES......., and that is where deception gets a stronghold, and the doctrines of devils takes you away from God's Grace.
You dont lose your salvation, you instead become "mind blinded" and unable to hear any truth.
"fallen FROM......Grace". "bewitched"...."in the Flesh".

You'll end up saying things like this on a forum......>"Yes, i know that Jesus SAVED ME.......but now, i have to do this, and do that, and keep this, and keep that, and if i do ALL THAT, then i STAY SAVED".

See that? That is BROKEN FAITH, ......that is to be "fallen FROM GRACE".....that is to NOT HAVE YOUR HEART "established with Grace".....That is MISSING Spiritual ARMOR.....its not on you.

OBEY Hebrews 13:9, or you end up, "in the flesh", DECEIVED, yet saved, or not......and that is the worst of all.
As to be RELIGIOUS but LOST......that is the worst of all.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
What is the bridge then?

"establish your heart with GRACE"

Ask five different denominations what that means to them.
What do you suppose they would say in response?
Would there be consensus? I doubt it.

 

[Waiting on him]

Frankly, we should get back on topic soon. Thanks.
From the OP:

Does your experience with God tell you that he is a fearful judge, or a loving Father?

Has he not shown love and care for you? Does not the life-giving rain fall on the lands of the righteous and sinners?

Does a sparrow fall without his notice? Consider how the flowers of the field are adorned, will he not clothe you as well?
The very hairs of your head are numbered. His knowledge and care for us is overwhelming.

Does this end at the afterlife?

So let me ask, Joshua is knelt down at the Jordan when this figure appears with a sword in his hand and says allegedly go in to Jericho and kill all it inhabitants. Women ,children, men, livestock……. Is this the Father that Jesus shows us there in the first century?

 

[Waiting on him]

St. SteVen said:
What is the bridge then?

Ask five different denominations what that means to them.
What do you suppose they would say in response?
Would there be consensus? I doubt it.

Maybe the bridge is for everyone too come to the understanding that the Father truly is love, as Jesus displayed?

They would have to abandon their pre conceived biases.

 

[Waiting on him]

Ask five different denominations what that means to them.
What do you suppose they would say in response?
Would there be consensus? I doubt it.

That’s because the five all have the same consensus.

God is for them but against all others, they haven’t seen the Father.

 

[St. SteVen]

So let me ask, Joshua is knelt down at the Jordan when this figure appears with a sword in his hand and says allegedly go in to Jericho and kill all it inhabitants. Women ,children, men, livestock……. Is this the Father that Jesus shows us there in the first century?

That's a difficult passage. Can you trust a God that operates that way?
I suppose we'll talk about babies dashed on rocks next?

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
What is the bridge then?

Ask five different denominations what that means to them.
What do you suppose they would say in response?
Would there be consensus? I doubt it.

Maybe the bridge is for everyone too come to the understanding that the Father truly is love, as Jesus displayed?

Well, let's hope we can all agree on that,
Are you saying not every Christian group does? ???

They would have to abandon their pre conceived biases.

You too.
Are you willing to abandon YOUR preconceived biases?
Or does unity only come when everyone follows you? (your group)
I'd say, that is why there is no unity.

 

[St. SteVen]

That’s because the five all have the same consensus.

God is for them but against all others, they haven’t seen the Father.

So, there will be unity when everyone shares YOUR vision of God?
That's the disease, not the cure.

 

[St. SteVen]

Frankly, we should get back on topic soon. Thanks.
From the OP:

Does your experience with God tell you that he is a fearful judge, or a loving Father?

Has he not shown love and care for you? Does not the life-giving rain fall on the lands of the righteous and sinners?
Does a sparrow fall without his notice? Consider how the flowers of the field are adorned, will he not clothe you as well?
The very hairs of your head are numbered. His knowledge and care for us is overwhelming.

Does this end at the afterlife?

 

[Behold]

St. SteVen said:
What is the bridge then?

Ask five different denominations what that means to them.
What do you suppose they would say in response?
Would there be consensus? I doubt it.

You'd would only get a consensus if the domination, theologically, is based in Paul's doctrine.
If they said...."what is that".... then you can know what you are dealing with, immediately.

 

[St. SteVen]

You'd would only get a consensus if the domination, theologically, is based in Paul's doctrine.
If they said...."what is that".... then you can know what you are dealing with, immediately.

Dealing with?
What would be the next step?

 

[Behold]

Dealing with?
What would be the next step?

Ive a lot of Threads on this forum that deal with "dark lights" and "How to spot the Heretic".
Many.

A "dark light" is defined as a person who may or may not be born again, and is very religious and is often just full of cultish Theology.
They will also try to prove that they can lose their salvation, with circular reasoning and the same 2-3 verses they will post over and over in 100 posts, like some deranged Robot.
The issue is that its cultish. Jesus said that these people have a light in them... Luke 11:35. .in other words they have a strong belief system, but its not related to Paul's Theology and is always some type of Cross denying self righteousness, that sounds like its "ok". but is actually extremely Legalistic.

Here is the way you find out what you are dealing with.... Just ask them if they believe they can lose their salvation.
If they say "of course" then that means they have no understanding of Salvation, may or may not be saved, and will be completely Legalistic.
It can be that they will say...>"well, not if I do this".
See that?
See that "I DO"?
Salvation is not "I DO".... Salvation is JESUS DID ALREADY, 2000 yrs ago. = "The GIFT of Salvation".
You don't "do" that, you receive it.
They have no idea........and so now you know what you are dealing with, in their case.

 

[St. SteVen]

Here is the way you find out what you are dealing with.... Just ask them if they believe they can lose their salvation.
If they say "of course" then that means they have no understanding of Salvation, may or may not be saved, and will be completely Legalistic.
It can be that they will say...>"well, not if I do this".
See that?
See that "I DO"?
Salvation is not "I DO".... Salvation is JESUS DID ALREADY, 2000 yrs ago. = "The GIFT of Salvation".
You don't "do" that, you receive it.
They have no idea........and so now you know what you are dealing with, in their case.

OSAS is a doctrinal opinion, which I happen to agree with, but...
I wouldn't discount someone on that ground.

This still sounds like building walls instead of bridges to me.
I know we have to draw the line somewhere, but I seem to be drawing a much larger circle than you are.
Which isn't as much a criticism as an observation. Might your circle be too small? Why so tight?

 

[Behold]

OSAS is a doctrinal opinion, which I happen to agree with, but...
I wouldn't discount someone on that ground.

This still sounds like building walls instead of bridges to me.
I know we have to draw the line somewhere, but I seem to be drawing a much larger circle than you are.

Salvation is The Cross of Christ offered to All. John 3:16-17, and 2 Corinthians 5:19

Real Christianity is not all inclusive, Its in fact very strict, it only lets those in who are born again into it.
Jesus said He is "THE WAY" that caused that........not one way, or some way, or, the other way.
John 14:6
I heard Barak Obama and many similar pagans say...>"there are many ways to God". "many Paths"...
Jesus said....."no there is just ME"... John 14:6

OSAS, is a cult that is created by a person who hates Grace, and defined it as "license to sin", ... This original person was probably "hyper-Moses Law"..Jewish, and even Paul was dealing with these Heretics, as they accused Him of what the same accuse Him of now, but He's not here so they accuse his Teaching as "license to sin", "cheap grace".... etc.
The cult isnt the people who understand God's Grace.. The OSAS cult are those who define it as "license" and "Licentiousness".

Here is what they did, in JUDE's day, as he explains it..
They twisted God's Grace, (subverted it, perverted it) into their idea that...when you explain God's Salvation as Eternal and based on Jesus's Cross being the Redemption from all sin....
= Pauline Theology (Romans 3 & 5).. they say....."that is teaching License".. and "licentiousness".
Here is how they said it to Paul.. "Paul you are saying that we can sin and should sin so that Grace will come".
See that?
Its the same false accusation against The Grace of God, and against Paul, and against Truth. =

= its the same devil, the same false accusation, and it ruins people's faith in Christ who get caught up in "we hate OSAS" as they dont understand that this demonic teaching actually causes you to never again be able to understand God's Grace, The Cross of Christ, and "the Gift of Salvation" and "the Gift of Righteousness"...., once you have this OSAS stronghold against Grace, in your mind.
Thats why the devil created it, you see. "Satan BLINDS THE MIND so that the LIGHT OF THE TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL is hidden".
THat's his main game with believers, as He can't take you to Hell, so, he'll ruin your faith and once that is accomplished your Discipleship is finished for life.

Me personally...... I have a real life, a real ministry......and yet, i spend a good deal of times on Forums, and what i do on them is try to heal a believer's broken faith with Truth, and expose faith ruining deceivers, and also, teach the core basics of Pauline Theology.
That's what im always doing on this Forum, and on many others..

If you want to see hell break loose on a forum, all you need is a few OSAS Mods and a pack of these people all posting about it and fighting with everyone who actually understands the Blood Atonement.
Over the years, ive seen most forums become this hateful situation, and at other times, different Mods, different members, and the same Forum can be a pretty Theologically and Spiritually enlightening experience for the membership, instead.