Paul claimed 3 times that Revelation 20:4 was a current reality.

[covenantee]

How so? the prophecy says the houses of Iseral and Judah, not just some of them.

Jeremiah 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

The prophecy says Israel, not Iseral. Get it straight.

Acts 2:36
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Jeremiah 31
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The Lord forgave the iniquity, and remembered the sin no more, of the 3,000 souls who received Him in Acts 2:41; in fulfillment of that provision of the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:34.

As He has for every individual who has ever or will ever receive Him.

Except for those who insist that the New Covenant "has not gone into effect yet" or "is not for us".

Their iniquity is still unforgiven, and their sin is still remembered.

 

[WPM]

Jeremiah 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

The prophecy says Israel, not Iseral. Get it straight.

Acts 2:36
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Jeremiah 31
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Did the Lord forgive the iniquity, and remember the sin no more, of the 3,000 souls who received Him in Acts 2:41?

One of the greatest mysteries in this Book is that an omnipotent, omniscient (or all-knowing), omnipresent God forgives and forgets. To think that God erases our sin, guilt and failings from His remembrance is totally overwhelming.

Spurgeon said in a message The Friend of Sinners, "Where, then, are the debts? There are no debts now; there is not one in God's book against his chosen, for Jesus died. If Christ hath paid the debt, then there is no debt left; it is gone. I can rejoice in its discharge; I can mourn that ever I cast myself into such a position, but the debt itself is gone."

To think that God erases our sin, guilt and failings from His remembrance is totally overwhelming.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 says: “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Hebrews 8:12 says about repentant sinners: “their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.”

Heb 10:18 Now where remission [Gr. aphesis] of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

The Greek word aphesis here means freedom, pardon: - deliverance, forgiveness, liberty, remission.

Not only does He forgive your sin but He forgets about it! That is amazing. Your sin is erased from His understanding.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

We have already answered that. You keep ignoring that.

No you haven't! that is a lie! You keep showing verses showing the atonement or that the blood is the blood of the new covenant, but you have yet to take Jeremiah 31 and go to any of the verses and then show when, where, how it has been fulfilled!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The prophecy says Israel, not Iseral. Get it straight.

Thank you for pointing out the mote in my eye. Now take care of the log in yours!

Acts 2:36
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Did all Jews know that day Jesus was both Lord and Messiah? Or was Peter proclaiming something that all Israel needed to know?

Is three thousand Jews the houses of Israel and Judah?

Jeremiah 31
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The Lord forgave the iniquity, and remembered the sin no more, of the 3,000 souls who received Him in Acts 2:41; in fulfillment of that provision of the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:34.

As He has for every individual who has ever or will ever receive Him.

Except for those who insist that the New Covenant "has not gone into effect yet" or "is not for us".

Their iniquity is still unforgiven, and their sin is still remembered.

YOu seem to conveniently overlook the word word "EVERY", not just 3,000 one day and 5,000 another day. Are you saying that composes every Jew form the houses of Israel and Judah???

So salvation for you is to believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for ones sin and also to believe all the provisions of Jeremiah 31 are in effect? Paul in Galatians called that another gospel!!!!!!

I hope you don't go about sharing your gospel with people.

 

[rwb]

You are not complete. You have Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Your spirit is with God. You are only soul, because of Adam's disobedience. You have the Holy Spirit as interest until your soul leaves Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Have you not been listening to Paul in all of his NT books?

All of the OT redeemed only had a soul until the Cross. You even deny they were given a first resurrection then. Yet you claim you are more complete than they are. Incredible.

All in Paradise have a soul and a physical body. They are waiting for the putting on of the spirit. Because the spirit is the image of God, not the physical air that keeps your physical body alive. Same word but 2 totally different definitions and phenomenon.

I don't know about you, but as I type this I assure you I have both body and spirit together and that makes me a living soul. Every living human is the image of Adam; i.e flesh & blood. Since being a spirit equates to having life, and having the Holy Spirit equates to having life everlasting, I'm very happy to say I have the Spirit from Christ within me also as I write today.

Yes, I am a living breathing complete soul, as God designed every living creature with life would be in this world. Yes, my spirit, but not my body of death, will ascend to heaven a spirit soul (alive) after I die. Because only my spirit will continue to have life after my body dies. Because the Spirit of Christ with my spirit will continue to give life to my spirit in heaven until my spirit is reunited with a new immortal and incorruptible body when Christ returns again and resurrects every single human body from the dead to stand before God in judgment. Where if we be found righteous will live with Christ forever as complete living soul, or if we be found unrighteous, cast into the lake of fire.

After Christ was resurrected, before He ascended to heaven, He went to the place of the dead reserved for the righteous dead (Abraham's bosom) to take those who had died in faith before He came to heaven with Him. Now the OT faithful saints are with Him in heaven where all believers, as spirit alive ascend the moment our body of flesh breathes its last. For the Old Covenant faithful saints who had died before the advent of Christ, this would indeed be the first resurrection, or partaking of Christ's resurrection life as spirit soul (alive), without a body ascending to heaven with Christ from the grave. Because Christ is the first resurrection of all who have died in faith before He came, as well as the first resurrection for all who die in faith since He has come. (1Cor 15:20)

Now Paradise is in heaven (Lk 23:43, 2 Cor 12:4, Rev 2:7) and is the place for living spirits. It is not a place where flesh and blood can dwell because Paul tells us flesh and blood will not inherit the Kingdom of God (1Cor 15:50).

 

[rwb]

No you haven't! that is a lie! You keep showing verses showing the atonement or that the blood is the blood of the new covenant, but you have yet to take Jeremiah 31 and go to any of the verses and then show when, where, how it has been fulfilled!

You seem to be trying to force Jeremiah into saying more than he says. Jeremiah NEVER says the New Covenant will be made with ALL within the houses of Israel and Judah. To prove what you allege, you must show from Scripture where the Lord promises the New Covenant will be for every Jew. Because the Scripture says in a number of places that only the remnant from among the Old Covenant nation from Israel will be saved through the Lord's New Covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31 (KJV) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

And yes, you have been shown this New Covenant Jeremiah prophesies will come, is the Covenant Christ made through His life giving blood when He came to earth a man.

Are you a universalist, believing the New Covenant through Christ is for EVERY human? Or are you a Zionist going around giving false hope to Jewish people, saying the New Covenant through the blood of Christ will eternally save EVERY JEW? Neither of these are biblical, because the Bible makes it abundantly clear for all who wish to receive truth that the New Covenant through the blood of Christ will save ALL people WHO BELIEVE, and no others. To be saved it matters not whether Jew or Gentile Christ says, "Ye MUST be born again"! That is to believe in Christ for eternal life.

 

[rwb]

YOu seem to conveniently overlook the word word "EVERY", not just 3,000 one day and 5,000 another day. Are you saying that composes every Jew form the houses of Israel and Judah???

So salvation for you is to believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for ones sin and also to believe all the provisions of Jeremiah 31 are in effect? Paul in Galatians called that another gospel!!!!!!

I hope you don't go about sharing your gospel with people.

You seem to lack understanding of who the whole house of Israel consists of since the New Covenant through the blood of Christ has come. In the New Covenant through the blood of Christ we are "the Israel of God" whether we be Jew or Gentile.

Acts 2:36 (KJV) Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Galatians 6:14-16 (KJV) But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

In his discourse with the Jews on the day of Pentecost, Peter was instructing them to share this knowledge of Christ will ALL the house of Israel. He is not saying ALL who hear will be partakers in the New Covenant through the crucified Lord. Why was it important that these new coverts to the crucified Lord share with others what they now understand? He gives us the answer, and it is not limited to the Jews only, but to whosoever the Lord our God shall call, whether near or far.

Acts 2:39 (KJV) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

[covenantee]

Thank you for pointing out the mote in my eye. Now take care of the log in yours!


Did all Jews know that day Jesus was both Lord and Messiah? Or was Peter proclaiming something that all Israel needed to know?

Is three thousand Jews the houses of Israel and Judah?

YOu seem to conveniently overlook the word word "EVERY", not just 3,000 one day and 5,000 another day. Are you saying that composes every Jew form the houses of Israel and Judah???

So salvation for you is to believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for ones sin and also to believe all the provisions of Jeremiah 31 are in effect? Paul in Galatians called that another gospel!!!!!!

I hope you don't go about sharing your gospel with people.

Is your iniquity forgiven, and is your sin remembered no more?

If so, you've fulfilled that provision of Jeremiah 31:34.

Or is your iniquity unforgiven, and is your sin still remembered?

Since you deny that the New Covenant is established and in force, as the plethora of Scripture shows,

Then your iniquity is unforgiven, and your sin is still remembered.

It's as simple as that.

 

[Timtofly]

I don't know about you, but as I type this I assure you I have both body and spirit together and that makes me a living soul. Every living human is the image of Adam; i.e flesh & blood. Since being a spirit equates to having life, and having the Holy Spirit equates to having life everlasting, I'm very happy to say I have the Spirit from Christ within me also as I write today.

Yes, I am a living breathing complete soul, as God designed every living creature with life would be in this world. Yes, my spirit, but not my body of death, will ascend to heaven a spirit soul (alive) after I die. Because only my spirit will continue to have life after my body dies. Because the Spirit of Christ with my spirit will continue to give life to my spirit in heaven until my spirit is reunited with a new immortal and incorruptible body when Christ returns again and resurrects every single human body from the dead to stand before God in judgment. Where if we be found righteous will live with Christ forever as complete living soul, or if we be found unrighteous, cast into the lake of fire.

After Christ was resurrected, before He ascended to heaven, He went to the place of the dead reserved for the righteous dead (Abraham's bosom) to take those who had died in faith before He came to heaven with Him. Now the OT faithful saints are with Him in heaven where all believers, as spirit alive ascend the moment our body of flesh breathes its last. For the Old Covenant faithful saints who had died before the advent of Christ, this would indeed be the first resurrection, or partaking of Christ's resurrection life as spirit soul (alive), without a body ascending to heaven with Christ from the grave. Because Christ is the first resurrection of all who have died in faith before He came, as well as the first resurrection for all who die in faith since He has come. (1Cor 15:20)

Now Paradise is in heaven (Lk 23:43, 2 Cor 12:4, Rev 2:7) and is the place for living spirits. It is not a place where flesh and blood can dwell because Paul tells us flesh and blood will not inherit the Kingdom of God (1Cor 15:50).

Paul points out Adam's dead corruptible flesh cannot enter Paradise. God's permanent incorruptible physical bodies are in Paradise.

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Adam's dead corruptible flesh returns to dust and is temporal.

God's living incorruptible physical bodies are permanent and waiting in Paradise for us.

It is immediate. Not X number of years after the fact.

This is not even the Millennium, because Adam's dead corruptible flesh cannot exist in the Millennium either. There is no more sin, and only eternal righteousness.

Our spirit is not our breathe. Same word, but different defining points. Our breath is not the putting on of immortality. The physical body needs breath. Putting on of our spirit is the final step of the image of God, the putting on of immortality.

When you put on the spirit, you will shine like a star. When Moses was on mout Sinai, God started to rub off on him so to speak. Moses was not given his spirit, but his face began to shine so bright, he had to cover his head, when he was with his people. On the mount of Transfiguration, Jesus demonstrated the effect of having on the spirit. John symbolizes this by a robe of white. It is put on over the physical body. Adam and Eve had on this spirit over their physical bodies.

When Adam disobeyed God, it was taken away. Their permanent incorruptible physical bodies were taken, and Adam and Eve were given dead corruptible physical bodies. They both died physically and spiritually. That is why they were naked. They no longer had on the robe of white.

Now the church was given the Holy Spirit to live within, not put over our physical body. A demon is a spirit that is no longer a light, but darkness, and can possess a person. God can send a spirit, that we cannot see to influence us like was shown in the OT. But this spirit is not our breath, it is the completed image of God. God is light. The image of God as a son of God is light.

 

[WPM]

No you haven't! that is a lie! You keep showing verses showing the atonement or that the blood is the blood of the new covenant, but you have yet to take Jeremiah 31 and go to any of the verses and then show when, where, how it has been fulfilled!

Read what is written and how the NT teaches not how you have been taught.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Read what is written and how the NT teaches not how you have been taught.

OT Prophecy is just as "inspired" as NT Teaching. One does not cancel out the other.

 

[WPM]

Is your iniquity forgiven, and is your sin remembered no more?

If so, you've fulfilled that provision of Jeremiah 31:34.

Or is your iniquity unforgiven, and is your sin still remembered?

Since you deny that the New Covenant is established and in force, as the plethora of Scripture shows,

Then your iniquity is unforgiven, and your sin is still remembered.

It's as simple as that.

With Premil it is as if Jesus never came or paid the final sacrifice for sin.

 

[Randy Kluth]

With Premil it is as if Jesus never came or paid the final sacrifice for sin.

Please provide a quote from conventional Premills who do not believe Jesus came and paid the final sacrifice for sin? You won't be able to do that.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Is your iniquity forgiven, and is your sin remembered no more?

If so, you've fulfilled that provision of Jeremiah 31:34.

Or is your iniquity unforgiven, and is your sin still remembered?

Since you deny that the New Covenant is established and in force, as the plethora of Scripture shows,

Then your iniquity is unforgiven, and your sin is still remembered.

It's as simple as that.

I'm only dealing with a single point here. Our Salvation today is *not* an indication that Jer 31.34 has been fulfilled. That prophecy speaks, in my opinion, of the future salvation of National Israel, which is a *political salvation* leading to the rebirth of many Jews in that country. That is the time frame in which *those particular people* will experience Salvation for themselves. The prophecy is not referring to when all Christians receive Salvation and the forgiveness of sin.

Not being contentious here--just stating my view.

 

[covenantee]

I'm only dealing with a single point here. Our Salvation today is *not* an indication that Jer 31.34 has been fulfilled. That prophecy speaks, in my opinion, of the future salvation of National Israel, which is a *political salvation* leading to the rebirth of many Jews in that country. That is the time frame in which *those particular people* will experience Salvation for themselves. The prophecy is not referring to when all Christians receive Salvation and the forgiveness of sin.

Not being contentious here--just stating my view.

There was nothing future in Acts 2:41.

Are you claiming that God did not forgive the iniquity, and God did not remember no more the sin; of the 3,000?

 

[covenantee]

OT Prophecy is just as "inspired" as NT Teaching. One does not cancel out the other.

A New (Will and) Testament always replaces an Old (Will and) Testament, because that is how testaments work.

There cannot be more than one testament in force and effect at any time.

Look at your own Will and Testament. What does the Revocation section say?

 

[Randy Kluth]

A New (Will and) Testament always replaces an Old (Will and) Testament, because that is how testaments work.

There cannot be more than one testament in force and effect at any time.

Look at your own Will and Testament. What does the Revocation section say?

Well, of course. The OT replaces the NT. That's the kind of Replacement Theology I can subscribe to--not to be confused with replacing the nation "Israel" with the International Church!

But OT Prophecy is not subject to the Old Testament! Are you seriously going to throw away the prophecy about the New Covenant simply because it is in the OT?

Gal 3.17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.

 

[WPM]

There was nothing future in Acts 2:41.

Are you claiming that God did not forgive the iniquity, and God did not remember no more the sin; of the 3,000?

We should never have to convince a professed evangelical of this. This is another reason why Christians should reject Premil. Why would they not invent 2 new covenants ( One for the redeemed and 1 for ethnic Israel) when they do it with everything else? They have 2 bindings of Satan, 2 last days periods, 2 individual last days, 2 (or 3) ends, 2 resurrection days, 2 judgment days, 2 new heavens and new earth, 2 weddings of the elect, 2 future glorifications and raptures, 2 of everything.

What is next? Is anything safe from this faulty mode of interpretation?

 

[Randy Kluth]

We should never have to convince a professed evangelical of this. This is another reason why Christians should reject Premil. Why would they not invent 2 new covenants ( One for the redeemed and 1 for ethnic Israel) when they do it with everything else? They have 2 resurrection days, 2 judgment days, 2 last day's period, 2 new heavens and new earths, 2 of everything.

The New Covenant can apply to either an individual or a nation. The confusion happens when we think the New Covenant *requires* the New Birth. It doesn't. It just requires that people conform to the law of the New Covenant so that individuals may properly decide either for the New Birth or not.

Judas Iscariot was there at the Last Supper, wasn't he? He was a participant in the Last Supper, where Jesus modeled the celebration of the New Covenant.

And so, one day soon, when Jesus comes back, the nation of Israel will turn back to God and enter into a covenant relationship with God again, this time under the New Covenant. Getting born again will be up to individuals, determined by how far they go in living out the demands of the New Covenant.

It is one thing to sign on to a covenant. It is a completely different thing to fulfil the requirements of that covenant. So one day Israel will sign onto that covenant. And many will actually live out the terms of that agreement. But obviously, many will fail, as well.

The important element in the prophecy is that God wants not just individuals to live for Him, but entire nations as well. How can He just love individuals and not care about their surroundings, about the society in which they live?

Wouldn't God care about social justice? This requires that He demand the entire society live by just laws. His covenant is to be made not just with individuals, but with entire nations, as well. It is not just for Israel, but for *many nations,* as Abraham was promised.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You seem to be trying to force Jeremiah into saying more than he says. Jeremiah NEVER says the New Covenant will be made with ALL within the houses of Israel and Judah. To prove what you allege, you must show from Scripture where the Lord promises the New Covenant will be for every Jew. Because the Scripture says in a number of places that only the remnant from among the Old Covenant nation from Israel will be saved through the Lord's New Covenant.

Poor RWB- The house of Israel and the house of Judah means all. go learn some language. It i s not for every Jew, but for those who remain at teh end of the trib as I have posted in many other threads ad-nauseum.

Are you a universalist, believing the New Covenant through Christ is for EVERY human? Or are you a Zionist going around giving false hope to Jewish people, saying the New Covenant through the blood of Christ will eternally save EVERY JEW? Neither of these are biblical, because the Bible makes it abundantly clear for all who wish to receive truth that the New Covenant through the blood of Christ will save ALL people WHO BELIEVE, and no others. To be saved it matters not whether Jew or Gentile Christ says, "Ye MUST be born again"! That is to believe in Christ for eternal life.

This is rank moron ism on your part to even write this. You know I am not and you are just flinging mud!

You seem to lack understanding of who the whole house of Israel consists of since the New Covenant through the blood of Christ has come. In the New Covenant through the blood of Christ we are "the Israel of God" whether we be Jew or Gentile.

That is a reinterpretation of Scripture forced upon Gods word by covanentalists. Teh peace be upon them are Gentile believers and the Israel of God are the Jewish believers. Context matters and the whole book of Galatians speaks of Jew and Gentile!

In his discourse with the Jews on the day of Pentecost, Peter was instructing them to share this knowledge of Christ will ALL the house of Israel. He is not saying ALL who hear will be partakers in the New Covenant through the crucified Lord. Why was it important that these new coverts to the crucified Lord share with others what they now understand? He gives us the answer, and it is not limited to the Jews only, but to whosoever the Lord our God shall call, whether near or far.

I never implied differently. So here the house of Israel is all Israel and in Jeremiah it is only some of Israel. Talk about darkened exegesis.