Paul claimed 3 times that Revelation 20:4 was a current reality.

[Ronald Nolette]

Your theology undermines Christ, His earthly ministry and His finished work on Calvary. It is an attack on God's truth. It is heretical. It should not be allowed on a Christian forum.

Romans 3:24-25: “

1 John 2:1-2: “

1 John 4:9-10:

The word propitiation here in 1 John 2:1-2 and 1 John 4:9-10 is the Greek word hilasmos (Strong’s 2434) meaning atonement, i.e. (concretely) an expiator. In Romans 3:24-25 (Strong’s 2434) it is hilasterion, which refers to an expiatory (place or thing), i.e. (concretely) an atoning victim, or (specially) the lid of the Ark (in the temple) – the mercy seat.

At Calvary the guilt of our sins was transferred or imputed to Christ. Our penalty was laid upon Him. He was condemned on our behalf in order that we could be free.

Do you participate in the Lord's Supper?

You are denying a pivotal doctrine of Scripture.

When Jesus instituted the Lord’s supper in Matthew 26:28, which represented His shed blood for the remission of our sins, He declared: “For this is my blood of the new testament [diathēkē], which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

Jesus was here speaking here about His death! The Greek word here “testament” is diathēkē meaning covenant or testament. The shedding of His blood, which expressly secured “the remission of sins” for His elect, constituted “the new covenant.”

Mark 14:24 parallels: “he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.”

Luke 22:19-20 agrees: “And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup isthe new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.”

Some seem content to partake in what they deny.

1 Corinthians 11:24-26: “And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament [diathēkē or covenant] in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.”

Believers are asked to remember the Lord's death – which is “the new testament [diathēkē or covenant] in [His] blood” – until He returns. “The new covenant” is here identified with “the Lord's death.” There is no way around it.

This is an ongoing demand.

Colossians 1:20-21 says “And having made peace through the blood of his cross by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him… And you, that were sometimes alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.”

When a man or woman comes to Christ he is reconciled onto God, whereupon the power of sin is broke. Christ became our substitute at the cross even though He was sinless. He was condemned on our behalf for the purpose that we would be eternally free. He took our sin, our guilt, our past, our weaknesses, our sorrows upon Himself – in full. Calvary was a finished work.

Hebrews 13:20: “Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.”



Hello! “After” what “days”? After the “days” of “that first covenant” that he just mentioned. This is not rocket science. Can you not take Scripture in its context and let it speak for itself? Are you so besotted with the old covenant and so captivated with promoting futile animal sacrifices that you cannot see and embrace the beauty, fulfillment and finality of the new covenant?

This is an ongoing reality.

Christ came to save sinners and He completed that perfectly, in that He secured eternal redemption for his elect through His death (Hebrews 5:8-9). He now sits at the right hand of majesty interceding for His elect.

All these verses I agree with 100% But He made atonement- atonement does not equate togentiles being part of teh Jer. 31 Covenant. I do not undermine His work that is you simply bearing false witness against a brother because of your pre-prejudiced view.

This is an ongoing reality.

The whole idea of God-ordained covenant is all about the substitutionary blood sacrifice. Hebrews 13:20 describes the new covenant as “the blood of the everlasting covenant [diathēkē or covenant].”

God decreed that “the blood … maketh atonement for the soul” (Leviticus 17:11). Atonement is the only possible means of salvation for sinful man. In fact, Hebrews 9:22 declares, “without shedding of blood is no remission” for sin. It is all about "the blood of the covenant [diathēkē or covenant]" secured by our Lord and Savior (Hebrews 10:29).

Jesus confirmed the covenant through His redemptive sacrifice at the cross. In Hebrews 9:12 we learn “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.” We therefore see that Christ secured a full pardon for his elect putting away sin in the elect sinner (Hebrews 9:26) procuring their complete salvation.

Hebrews 12:22 & 24 sums it all up: “ye are come unto ... Jesus the mediator of the new covenant [diathēkē or covenant], and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel."

Christ came to save sinners and He completed that perfectly, in that He secured eternal redemption for his elect through His death (Hebrews 5:8-9).

This is an ongoing reality.

Hebrews 10:28-29: “He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant [diathēkē or testament], wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”

This is an ongoing reality.

And I agree and rejoice in these verses 100%

So please show me which parts of the New Covenant as written are a present reality!

Jeremiah 31:31-37

King James Version

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.


YOU HAVE THUNDERED LOUDLY AND POSTED MUCH VERBIAGE, BUT YOU HAVE YET TO SIMPLY WRITE AND SAY: "SEE, VERSE 33 IS A REALITY, OR VERSE 35" ETC.ETC.

THAT IS ALL I AM ASKING OF YOU.

Had to edit verses out to get to the 10,000 word max.

 

[rwb]

Then please show me the passafges that have gone into effect. Below please find the full new covenant as God inspired to be written:

Jeremiah 31:31-38​

​

King James Version​

​

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

YOu agreed with me this is the only new Covenant in the bible, so show me which parts are in effect now.

Romans 9:4
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Even Paul who wrote those words you cited from Corinthians also wrote this:

Romans 9:4
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Have you ever read this passage of Scripture? Paul says those who are in Christ are in included with the Covenant people of God, whether they be circumcised (Jew) or uncircumcised (Gentile), they are called "the Israel of God".

Galatians 6:14-16 (KJV) But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

 

[rwb]

Then please show me the passafges that have gone into effect. Below please find the full new covenant as God inspired to be written:

Jeremiah 31:31-38​

​

King James Version​

​

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

YOu agreed with me this is the only new Covenant in the bible, so show me which parts are in effect now.

Romans 9:4
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Even Paul who wrote those words you cited from Corinthians also wrote this:

Romans 9:4
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

What about this passage from Scripture where Paul once again proves that when it comes to the Word of God penetrating the hearts of man it makes no difference whether they be Jew or Greek (Gentile). When Jeremiah spoke of the new Covenant that would come it was not limited to only an ethnic people, but is unto whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord.

Romans 10:12-17 (KJV) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[WPM]

All these verses I agree with 100% But He made atonement- atonement does not equate togentiles being part of teh Jer. 31 Covenant. I do not undermine His work that is you simply bearing false witness against a brother because of your pre-prejudiced view.



And I agree and rejoice in these verses 100%

So please show me which parts of the New Covenant as written are a present reality!

Jeremiah 31:31-37​

​

King James Version​

​

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.


YOU HAVE THUNDERED LOUDLY AND POSTED MUCH VERBIAGE, BUT YOU HAVE YET TO SIMPLY WRITE AND SAY: "SEE, VERSE 33 IS A REALITY, OR VERSE 35" ETC.ETC.

THAT IS ALL I AM ASKING OF YOU.

Had to edit verses out to get to the 10,000 word max.

The Scriptures I presented forbid your thesis. Hello! Jeremiah 31:31-37 is talking about the one and only new covenant. Read it and accept it, instead of undermining our Savior and the cross-work. And no, you did not agree with what I presented, you opposed it by your false teaching.

​

 

[covenantee]

All these verses I agree with 100% But He made atonement- atonement does not equate togentiles being part of teh Jer. 31 Covenant. I do not undermine His work that is you simply bearing false witness against a brother because of your pre-prejudiced view.



And I agree and rejoice in these verses 100%

So please show me which parts of the New Covenant as written are a present reality!

Jeremiah 31:31-37​

​

King James Version​

​

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.


YOU HAVE THUNDERED LOUDLY AND POSTED MUCH VERBIAGE, BUT YOU HAVE YET TO SIMPLY WRITE AND SAY: "SEE, VERSE 33 IS A REALITY, OR VERSE 35" ETC.ETC.

THAT IS ALL I AM ASKING OF YOU.

Had to edit verses out to get to the 10,000 word max.

Do you agree and rejoice in these verses 100%?

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

These verses declare that the New Covenant/Testament already was established and of force when these verses were written by the Hebrews writer.

Was the Hebrews writer aware of the New Covenant/Testament passage in Jeremiah 31?

Did the Hebrews writer believe that the New Covenant/Testament passage in Jeremiah 31 bore any relationship to what he had written in the foregoing verses?

You be the judge.

Virtually immediately upon declaring in Hebrews 8:6 that the New Covenant/Testament already was established, he then quotes the Jeremiah 31 passage virtually verbatim in Hebrews 8:8-12.

There's no denying the obvious. He was affirming that the latter was the same as the former.

The New Covenant/Testament of Hebrews 8-9, and the New Covenant/Testament of Jeremiah 31, are one and the same New Covenant/Testament.

Which already was established, and of force, when Hebrews was written.

Fulfillment for Israel had begun here:
Acts 2
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

It continued here:
Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

And here:
Acts 4:4
Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.

And continues to this day, and until Christ returns, for each and every individual now from every nation (Acts 10:34-35) who accepts Him and His New Covenant/Testament.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So, what is a soul?

It's a part of us along with the body and spirit.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There seems to be a very close connection between a human's soul and spirit.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

You understand that the ones John saw were physically/bodily dead, right? Yet, they were still conscious. Is this hard for you to understand that there's more to us than just our bodies?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes the Jeremiah Covenant was for the 12.

But once again here is the complete new covenant. Please just sho wme in teh covenant where Gentiles are mentioned?

Jeremiah 31:31-38​

​

King James Version​

​

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

Romans 9:4
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Teh covenants belong to Israel. However we the church are beneficiaries as was also foretold. We partake in the blessings thoughy the covenant does not belong to Gentiles.

If this time, you wish to keep up your juvenile diatribes against dispensationalism, I will place you on full ignore. Either write maturely or begone!~

Show me in the Old Testament where the promises God made to Abraham and his seed are applied to Jesus and those who belong to Jesus, including Gentiles. You won't find that explicitly. And, yet, Paul wrote this:

Galatians 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ......29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You need to learn that some things were not made entirely clear in the Old Testament that were later made clear in the New Testament. The new covenant has everything to do with Christ shedding His blood in order to provide the forgiveness of sins and salvation. Gentiles share in that, which was not made clear in the Old Testament, but is made clear in the New Testament.

Have you never read this:

Ephesians 3:1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—2 Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Please read the above passage carefully. Paul made it clear that it was not formerly known before New Testament times that "through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel". That is why the Old Testament text regarding the new covenant does not specifically reference the Gentiles. The reason is because God purposely intended for that to be a mystery until after Christ came and shed His blood. He didn't just shed His blood for the Jews, but for the Gentiles as well. So, Gentiles are saved under the new covenant just as Jews are. This should be common knowledge to all Christians. I'm truly baffled as to how any Christian would not understand this.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Then please show me the parts of the New Covenant, written in Gods Inspired Word are now in effect!

All of them are. Why would the new covenant only be partially in effect? That doesn't make any sense. It's either fully in effect or not in effect at all. You say the new covenant doesn't apply to Gentiles, but scripture says it does.

1 Corinthians 11:23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. 27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Such confidence we have through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The fact that Gentile Christians are expected to observe the Lord's supper in remembrance of Christ's death and the blood He shed that established the new covenant shows that the new covenant applies to Gentile Christians as well. This is Christianity 101 and I'm afraid that you're failing the class.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Scriptures I presented forbid your thesis. Hello! Jeremiah 31:31-37 is talking about the one and only new covenant. Read it and accept it, instead of undermining our Savior and the cross-work. And no, you did not agree with what I presented, you opposed it by your false teaching.

​

I agree. This really saddens me when I see people deny fundamental Christian truth like this.

Since Jeremiah 31:31-37 doesn't explicitly mention Gentiles that means the new covenant can't apply to Gentiles? That seems to be his entire argument. But, New Testament scripture clearly applies the new covenant to both Jew and Gentile believers, so, with that in mind, why does it matter if Gentiles are mentioned specifically in Jeremiah 31:31-37 or not? Clearly, Jeremiah 31:31-37 is not the only scripture we have regarding the new covenant and, yet, Ronald is acting as if that's the case. He seems to be completely ignoring all the other scripture that describes the new covenant. I just don't get it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well then show me which part of the covenant found in Jeremiah is gone into effect.

Why did you not address what I said in my post? Do you think the new covenant described in Jeremiah is a different new covenant than described in 1 Corinthians 11:23-34 and 2 Corinthians 3 that Paul applied to both Jew and Gentile believers?

You acknowledged that there is only one new covenant before, so why would you not look at scripture like 1 Corinthians 11:23-34 and 2 Corinthians 3 to see that the new covenant applies to Gentiles and has to do with people being saved by the blood of the new covenant that Christ shed for us?

Here is hte covenant. show me which part has to do with Gentiles.


31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

All of it. It's either all in effect or none of it is. For example, verse 33 refers to what happens when the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in our hearts.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Do you agree and rejoice in these verses 100%?

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

These verses declare that the New Covenant/Testament already was established and of force when these verses were written by the Hebrews writer.

Was the Hebrews writer aware of the New Covenant/Testament passage in Jeremiah 31?

Did the Hebrews writer believe that the New Covenant/Testament passage in Jeremiah 31 bore any relationship to what he had written in the foregoing verses?

You be the judge.

Virtually immediately upon declaring in Hebrews 8:6 that the New Covenant/Testament already was established, he then quotes the Jeremiah 31 passage virtually verbatim in Hebrews 8:8-12.

There's no denying the obvious. He was affirming that the latter was the same as the former.

The New Covenant/Testament of Hebrews 8-9, and the New Covenant/Testament of Jeremiah 31, are one and the same New Covenant/Testament.

Which already was established, and of force, when Hebrews was written.

Fulfillment for Israel had begun here:
Acts 2
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

It continued here:
Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

And here:
Acts 4:4
Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.

And continues to this day, and until Christ returns, for each and every individual now from every nation (Acts 10:34-35) who accepts Him and His New Covenant/Testament.

So please answer this question now asked for the 4th time- Show form SCripture whee the provisions of the New Covenant as inspired in Jer. 31 are fulfilled?

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

Everything you cited is 100% true. But show bypointing ot the verses of Jer. 31 how any of those are fulfilled.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Have you ever read this passage of Scripture? Paul says those who are in Christ are in included with the Covenant people of God, whether they be circumcised (Jew) or uncircumcised (Gentile), they are called "the Israel of God".

Galatians 6:14-16 (KJV) But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

You are still dodgong answering the question:

Show me from history and SCripture where the provisions of Jeremiah 31:31-37 are fulfilled.

What about this passage from Scripture where Paul once again proves that when it comes to the Word of God penetrating the hearts of man it makes no difference whether they be Jew or Greek (Gentile). When Jeremiah spoke of the new Covenant that would come it was not limited to only an ethnic people, but is unto whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord.

Romans 10:12-17 (KJV) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

And I do not disagree, but like you just said- the New Cvoenant was written to a specific ethnic group (Jews).

So show me when the provisions were fulfileed!

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So please answer this question now asked for the 4th time- Show form SCripture whee the provisions of the New Covenant as inspired in Jer. 31 are fulfilled?

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

Everything you cited is 100% true. But show bypointing ot the verses of Jer. 31 how any of those are fulfilled.

Why is this necessary to spell everything out to you?

Scripture makes it clear that the new covenant was put into effect by the blood of Christ and that both Jew and Gentile Christians are expected to observe the Lord's supper in remembrance of Christ's death and the blood of the new covenant that Christ shed for us. Why isn't it enough for you when scripture tells us that the new covenant was put into effect by the blood of Christ long ago? Why do you need to understand every little detail about it in order to accept that even when scripture explicitly tells us that the new covenant was put into effect by the blood of Christ?

When Jesus held the cup of wine and said "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.", what do you think He was saying there? Who was His blood poured out for? Can you not see that the new covenant has everything to do with Jesus shedding His blood? He did not shed His blood only for the Jews, right? And He shed His blood in order to provide for the forgiveness of sins and the hope of eternal life. So, that is what the new covenant is all about. Salvation and the forgiveness of sins that Jesus has provided for both Jew and Gentile believers.

 

[covenantee]

So please answer this question now asked for the 4th time- Show form SCripture whee the provisions of the New Covenant as inspired in Jer. 31 are fulfilled?

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

Everything you cited is 100% true. But show bypointing ot the verses of Jer. 31 how any of those are fulfilled.

Did you read Acts 2 and Acts 4?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Show me in the Old Testament where the promises God made to Abraham and his seed are applied to Jesus and those who belong to Jesus, including Gentiles. You won't find that explicitly. And, yet, Paul wrote this:

Galatians 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ......29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You need to learn that some things were not made entirely clear in the Old Testament that were later made clear in the New Testament. The new covenant has everything to do with Christ shedding His blood in order to provide the forgiveness of sins and salvation. Gentiles share in that, which was not made clear in the Old Testament, but is made clear in the New Testament.

Have you never read this:

Ephesians 3:1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—2 Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Please read the above passage carefully. Paul made it clear that it was not formerly known before New Testament times that "through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel". That is why the Old Testament text regarding the new covenant does not specifically reference the Gentiles. The reason is because God purposely intended for that to be a mystery until after Christ came and shed His blood. He didn't just shed His blood for the Jews, but for the Gentiles as well. So, Gentiles are saved under the new covenant just as Jews are. This should be common knowledge to all Christians. I'm truly baffled as to how any Christian would not understand this.

I agree the mysteries of the New were not revealed in the old. but what does that to do with a covenant specifically made to the houses of Israel and Judah? Remember the same Paul who wrote this also wrote this as well:

Romans 9:4
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

But once again ; You still have refused to anser the simple question I ask. Show me where and when teh provisions of the Jeremiah covenant are fulfilled in the New Testament?

Jeremiah 31:31-37

King James Version

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

All of them are. Why would the new covenant only be partially in effect? That doesn't make any sense. It's either fully in effect or not in effect at all. You say the new covenant doesn't apply to Gentiles, but scripture says it does.

So all th eprovisions of the covenant are now in effect according to you.

Jeremiah 31:31-37

King James Version

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

So Israel and Judah now all have the law of God in their inward parts.

Israel is now gods people and god is the god of all Israel.

They all know the Lord from the least to the greatest, so they need no more teaching.

All Jews are completely forgiven now and are saved.

Please show me when all these things were accomplished.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Why did you not address what I said in my post? Do you think the new covenant described in Jeremiah is a different new covenant than described in 1 Corinthians 11:23-34 and 2 Corinthians 3 that Paul applied to both Jew and Gentile believers?

You acknowledged that there is only one new covenant before, so why would you not look at scripture like 1 Corinthians 11:23-34 and 2 Corinthians 3 to see that the new covenant applies to Gentiles and has to do with people being saved by the blood of the new covenant that Christ shed for us?


All of it. It's either all in effect or none of it is. For example, verse 33 refers to what happens when the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in our hearts.

I can't help if you are a sloppy reader and use gimmicks to make it seem like a prophecy is fulfilled. Verse 33 doesn't show an ongoing salvation, but something happening to the whole house of Israel (all the tribes), it is a one time act, not something that has been occuring for over 2 millenia now!

I have no trouble recognizing that Gentiles are partakers of many of the blessings of the promises made ot Israel, but it does not mean that the church has taken over the covenant.

As Paul also wrote in Romans, Gentiles are the wild olive branches grafted onto the vine (Jesus)

I will address your post when you go through verse by verse of Jeremiah and show their fulfilment as you said they have been.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Why is this necessary to spell everything out to you?

Scripture makes it clear that the new covenant was put into effect by the blood of Christ and that both Jew and Gentile Christians are expected to observe the Lord's supper in remembrance of Christ's death and the blood of the new covenant that Christ shed for us. Why isn't it enough for you when scripture tells us that the new covenant was put into effect by the blood of Christ long ago? Why do you need to understand every little detail about it in order to accept that even when scripture explicitly tells us that the new covenant was put into effect by the blood of Christ?

When Jesus held the cup of wine and said "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.", what do you think He was saying there? Who was His blood poured out for? Can you not see that the new covenant has everything to do with Jesus shedding His blood? He did not shed His blood only for the Jews, right? And He shed His blood in order to provide for the forgiveness of sins and the hope of eternal life. So, that is what the new covenant is all about. Salvation and the forgiveness of sins that Jesus has provided for both Jew and Gentile believers.

Why Because what the New Covenant says and what you say it means are incongruous So I am asking you to show me when each provision has been fulfilled. That is not hard. YOu have written thousands of words to not show me, it would take far less writing to show me.

Jeremiah 31:31-37

King James Version

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Did you read Acts 2 and Acts 4?

Hundreds of times.

But why don't you show me what has exactly been fulfilled from the New covenant and stop dodging that.

Jeremiah 31:31-37

King James Version

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.


If it is fully in effect as you say- you should have no problem say taking vses. 33 and 34, pointing to history or a passage of Scripture and say- see here is where all Israel began to know th e Lord!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I agree the mysteries of the New were not revealed in the old. but what does that to do with a covenant specifically made to the houses of Israel and Judah?

It has to do with that because of things like the promises God made to Abraham and his seed. The promises seemed to be made to Abraham and his physical descendants, yet Paul made it clear that they were made to Christ and those who belong to Christ (Gal 3:16,29).

So, if something like that wasn't made clear in the Old Testament, then you need to realize that the new covenant, and all it entails, was not made clear in the Old Testament, either.

But, it is made clear in the New Testament that the new covenant was established by the blood of Christ and we should all know that Christ didn't just shed His blood for the Jews, but also for the Gentiles.

Do you observe the Lord's supper? If so, do you not understand that by doing so you are observing and acknowledging that Jesus shed His blood for you (and everyone else) in fulfillment of the new covenant?

How do you interpret this passage:

1 Corinthians 11:23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

Paul made it clear that all believers, Gentiles included, should observe the Lord's supper in remembrance of His death and the blood He shed for us. Jesus Himself said the cup of wine He was holding figuratively represented "the new covenant in my blood". So, when we observe the Lord's supper we are acknowledging that His blood established the new covenant for us (and all who believe in Him whether Jew or Gentile).

Remember the same Paul who wrote this also wrote this as well:

Romans 9:4
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Should we intepret that verse in isolation as if God's promises only pertain to Israelites or should we keep verses like this in mind as well:

Galatians 3:29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Do you understand that Gentiles were made fellow heirs of the promises made to the Israelites? That is taught repeatedly in the New Testament. Why do you act as if you are unaware of this?

But once again ; You still have refused to anser the simple question I ask.

You have been shown that the new covenant is currently in effect. If that isn't enough for you, then so be it. I feel no obligation to spell out every detail to you. I did say that verse 33 has to do with the Holy Spirit coming to dwell in our hearts. But, I should not have to explain every detail to you. The bottom line is that scripture tells us that the new covenant is now in effect. So, you should believe that even if you don't understand all of the details about it.