Paul claimed 3 times that Revelation 20:4 was a current reality.

[ewq1938]

That's because I agree with much of what you said, but didn't know how to definitely disagree with your position. Yes, there's is a similarity between the False Prophet being introduced in connection with the 10 horns, and the Little Horn/the Antichrist being introduced in Daniel in connection with the 10 horns.

The same hold true, however, for the 1st Beast, which in my view would be the Antichrist. After all, later in the Revelation (19.20) the Beast and the False Prophet are introduced as two distinct individuals. If the 2nd Beast is the False Prophet, then the 1st Beast is the Antichrist.

Then by similar reasoning the ten horned beast in Daniel is the AC, not the little horn.

 

[Timtofly]

Thanks for the time, I have clearly explained my position concerning Revelation 20:1-9 and "Deceive The Nation's" is to the "Future" final battle "Armageddon"
"
You allude to World War 1 & 2 as if I haven't explained myself several times, I will do it again and again and again

"READ REAL SLOW":

SATAN IS BOUND PRESENTLY BY THE 6TH VIAL, WHEN IT IS POURED OUT IN THE "FUTURE" HE WILL BE LOOSED TO DECEIVE THE WORLDS NATIONS, IN GATHERING THEM TO THE FUTURE "FINAL BATTLE" AT ARMAGEDDON

"READ REAL SLOW":

SATAN IS BOUND PRESENTLY BY THE 6TH VIAL, WHEN IT IS POURED OUT IN THE "FUTURE" HE WILL BE LOOSED TO DECEIVE THE WORLDS NATIONS, IN GATHERING THEM TO THE FUTURE "FINAL BATTLE" AT ARMAGEDDON

"READ REAL SLOW":

SATAN IS BOUND PRESENTLY BY THE 6TH VIAL, WHEN IT IS POURED OUT IN THE "FUTURE" HE WILL BE LOOSED TO DECEIVE THE WORLDS NATIONS, IN GATHERING THEM TO THE FUTURE "FINAL BATTLE" AT ARMAGEDDON

Your nonsense means the vials were prepared in the first century to bind Satan then. Thus nonsense.

 

[No Pre-TB]

I have explained my position in great detail

You did. I understand you believe Satan is currently bound and will be here at Armageddon which afterwards will be thrown into the lake of fire.

I disagree with your claims of a 1,000 year kingdom, when the 7th vial is poured out this is the end

It’s not my claim. I posted scripture verbatim. If you do not agree with it, then that’s between you and God.

I posted 3 arguments. None were challenged and not one did you offer an explanation. How is anyone to agree with your stance if you do not have an answer for it? Getting your position across so others understand it isn’t the issue. The position itself is the issue when arguments rise and scripture shows something else.

 

[Davy]

Some of that I agree with. Satan is the 1st sinner, the judgment is after the Millennium, etc. I can understand seeing 2 segments of 1260 days, but I just prefer to believe there is just 1 period of 1260 days, because the author would likely look back to the "time, times and half a time" in Dan 7, which is the only place in the OT Antichrist is mentioned in any detail.

I don't understand your statement that Dan 7 is the only place the OT Antichrist is mentioned in detail. I actually consider Daniel 8 about the "little horn" and "king of fierce countenance" having much detail about the coming Antichrist at the end. There we are told he will cause craft to prosper and by peace will destroy many. Likewise, the Dan.11 "vile person" is a detail about the final Antichrist placing the "abomination of desolation" idol in Jerusalem that Lord Jesus warned us about for the end.

My biggest problem in this has been that I've never been able to account for the last half of Daniel's 70th Week. So I've just come to assume the 70th Weeks is completed in just half a week, which I believe ended with the Cross.

But thanks for your thoughts. I'm always interested in hearing valid views of these things.

I could never... believe that, because no such idea as that is written in God's Word. That idea that the 70th week was completed back sometime in history is a doctrine from men, not from The Bible.

The final 70th week we know per the fulfillment of the previous 69 weeks points to each 'week' being symbolic for 7 years. So automatically, that means the 70th week, the "one week" of Daniel 9:27 must mean 7 years also. There is no reason to break that Biblical rule set in the Daniel 9 chapter with the 70 weeks prophecy.

Then Daniel 9:27 is emphatic that in the "middle" of that symbolic final "one week", sacrifices in Jerusalem will be ended, and the abomination setup instead, the detail of that event given specifically in Daniel 11 about the "vile person", and in Daniel 8 about the "little horn".

 

[Truth7t7]

I don't understand your statement that Dan 7 is the only place the OT Antichrist is mentioned in detail. I actually consider Daniel 8 about the "little horn" and "king of fierce countenance" having much detail about the coming Antichrist at the end. There we are told he will cause craft to prosper and by peace will destroy many. Likewise, the Dan.11 "vile person" is a detail about the final Antichrist placing the "abomination of desolation" idol in Jerusalem that Lord Jesus warned us about for the end.


I could never... believe that, because no such idea as that is written in God's Word. That idea that the 70th week was completed back sometime in history is a doctrine from men, not from The Bible.

The final 70th week we know per the fulfillment of the previous 69 weeks points to each 'week' being symbolic for 7 years. So automatically, that means the 70th week, the "one week" of Daniel 9:27 must mean 7 years also. There is no reason to break that Biblical rule set in the Daniel 9 chapter with the 70 weeks prophecy.

Then Daniel 9:27 is emphatic that in the "middle" of that symbolic final "one week", sacrifices in Jerusalem will be ended, and the abomination setup instead, the detail of that event given specifically in Daniel 11 about the "vile person", and in Daniel 8 about the "little horn".

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained "Future"?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see (The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Truth7t7]

I took my time and began to read slowly. Reading slow did not help your case, even in its triplicate. I presented specifics in the argument that you have not addressed. Instead of talking about them, you repeat copy and paste. Hardly an antidotal defense.

If Satan is currently sealed in prison, it assumes he is in the bottom less pit. All that is left is for him to be released and then defeated and cast into the lake of fire. But there is a major problem. Revelation 16 states:

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

If the Dragon is present here, you are assuming he has been released from the bottomless pit as you said READ SLOW and you maintain above its at the battle of Armageddon. Well, if he already entered the pit BEFORE Armageddon and he is seen here walking around, how do you contend with Rev 19 stating:

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Where is the Dragon? He isnt in the Lake of fire. Read Slow now Truth. VERY SLOW. The False Prophet and the Beast of the sea are in the lake of Fire and the Dragon isnt. WHY? Remember there is no Chapter breaks...

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him,

It's because he never was imprisoned otherwise, he'd be destroyed WITH them in the same lake. Its not till AFTER the 1k years expire that we see:

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are

Huh, look at that. When you read slow, you get answers. The dragon isnt cast in the lake of fire after Armageddon with the other 2. He must be in prison after then for 1k years and then will join them "where the beast and the false prophet are". Sound scriptural facts gained by slow reading and vivid research.

The book of Revelation isn't taught In chronological order as is suggested, it's parallel teachings covering same events

The battle seen in Revelation 16, 19, 20, are all the same battle in parallel teachings, all are representative of the future "Second Coming" also

Satan is loosed as seen in Revelation 16:12-14 when the 6th vial is poured out, yes Revelation 20:7-8 Is a parallel teaching of the same event of Satan being loosed

The Final Judgement (The End) is seen in parallel teachings in Revelation 11:18, 16:17, 19:20, 20:11-15

Basic Description: When the 6th vial is poured out at the end of the 3.5 year tribulation, Satan is loosed for a "Little Season" Revelation 20:3, 16:13, 20:7-8

Satan gathers the nation through devils in false miracles going forth to the earths kings, Jesus returns to Armageddon in fire and Final Judgement (The End)

You can feel free to disagree, that's what I see in scripture, and my observation and opinion isn't changing

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Randy Kluth]

I don't understand your statement that Dan 7 is the only place the OT Antichrist is mentioned in detail. I actually consider Daniel 8 about the "little horn" and "king of fierce countenance" having much detail about the coming Antichrist at the end. There we are told he will cause craft to prosper and by peace will destroy many. Likewise, the Dan.11 "vile person" is a detail about the final Antichrist placing the "abomination of desolation" idol in Jerusalem that Lord Jesus warned us about for the end.

Perhaps I should've acknowledged that many good Christians believe Dan 8 and 11 are about Antichrist. I was just expressing my own belief that Dan 7 is universally held to be about Antichrist and the Coming of the Son of Man in his Kingdom. I find all NT eschatology is linked to this chapter in Daniel.

I could never... believe that, because no such idea as that is written in God's Word. That idea that the 70th week was completed back sometime in history is a doctrine from men, not from The Bible.

Well, it's really no different than you believing Dan 8 and 11 is about the Antichrist. Many believe those chapters contain info about Antiochus 4. So in Dan 9, many believe that the 70th Week was fulfilled at Christ's 1st Coming, and has nothing to do with Antichrist or the endtimes. For example, the Church Fathers, with the exception of 2 or 3, held that the 70th Week was the time in which Christ was crucified, leading to the desolation of the city of Jerusalem and the temple by the Romans.

The final 70th week we know per the fulfillment of the previous 69 weeks points to each 'week' being symbolic for 7 years. So automatically, that means the 70th week, the "one week" of Daniel 9:27 must mean 7 years also. There is no reason to break that Biblical rule set in the Daniel 9 chapter with the 70 weeks prophecy.

The 70th Week does not, in my opinion, have to be a full week, since it is the last week. Any part of the week is still the last week. If I said that I threw a party on the last week of Summer, that would pinpoint when the party would be--not how long it would be. We are told specifically in this passage that in the midst of the Week Messiah is cut off. For me, that means that last Week ends in the midst of the Week.

Then Daniel 9:27 is emphatic that in the "middle" of that symbolic final "one week", sacrifices in Jerusalem will be ended, and the abomination setup instead, the detail of that event given specifically in Daniel 11 about the "vile person", and in Daniel 8 about the "little horn".

I read it differently. I see the destruction of the city and the sanctuary as *following* the end of the 70 Weeks. The death of Christ in the midst of the last Week ended the 70 Weeks prophecy, and led directly to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

I'm not sure our interpretations can be proved either way. I base my belief on the correspondence of Dan 9 and Luke 21. Otherwise, they don't make sense to me.

 

[Timtofly]

The final 70th week we know per the fulfillment of the previous 69 weeks points to each 'week' being symbolic for 7 years. So automatically, that means the 70th week, the "one week" of Daniel 9:27 must mean 7 years also. There is no reason to break that Biblical rule set in the Daniel 9 chapter with the 70 weeks prophecy.

That is human logic. Daniel 9:27 is not a 7 year period. It is the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. The 7th Trumpet does not sound for 7 years. Daniel 9:27 is explained in Revelation 10:6-7. Clearly the 7th Trumpet does not include all the Seals, first 6 Trumpets, and 7 Thunders. The 7th Trumpet is after the first 20 events.

The 70th week is defined as Messiah the Prince. Jesus is the 70th week. Half of the week, Jesus' ministry on earth was as Messiah. The last half as King sitting on a throne in a temple in Jerusalem. Except the King part is getting shorter and shorter per Matthew 24:22.

Daniel 9:25

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince (the 70th week) shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: (69 weeks) the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

Gabriel gives us who and what is the 70th week.

He then says that after the 69 weeks, Messiah is cut off. A further indication that Messiah is the 70th week. So the last half as Prince will have to wait, not for Jesus. Paul states it is for the fulness of the Gentiles. The promise to Israel was set aside. Romans 11 explains this. This is the mystery that is complete at the 7th Trumpet. The promises in Daniel 9:24.

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

The 70th week is only halfway finished with the Cross. The Second Coming will complete the King part. The Atonement covered all sin, but at the end of the 7th Trumpet, sin will be taken away permanently from the earth. Satan will be bound for 1,000 years. There is no future 7 years, because Jesus as Messiah already completed 3.5 years. The opening of the Seals started the 3.5 years as King. But time will not be over until the 7th Trumpet sounds declaring all kingdoms on earth now belong to the King. The actual time on the throne in Jerusalem keeps getting shorter, as Jesus has not yet come to sit on His throne, per Matthew 25:31.

So one can say this has been one long 3.5 years, because Jesus is King in heaven for the last 1992 years. Or one can say the King part is getting shorter, because the fulness of the Gentiles has not completed with the Second Coming removing the church from the earth, and bringing the harvest of the Gentiles to a close.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Basic Description: When the 6th vial is poured out at the end of the 3.5 year tribulation, Satan is loosed for a "Little Season" Revelation 20:3, 16:13, 20:7-8

Satan gathers the nation through devils in false miracles going forth to the earths kings, Jesus returns to Armageddon in fire and Final Judgement (The End)

As I pointed out earlier, Satan is not thrown into the lake of fire with the beast of the sea nor the beast of the earth per Rev 19:20

1st question:
Where does Satan go? It’s only later that we read he’ll be thrown in there WHERE the false prophet and beast of the sea were per Rev 20:10. Why do they precede him?

Backdrop:
1. Satan, and bound him a thousand years Rev 20:2
2. they [believers martyred] lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years Rev 20:4 (the 1k years Satan is bound)
3. the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished Rev 20:5 (implies the 1st resurrection happens while Satan was bound)
4. when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison Rev 20:7 (After the 1st resurrection, after all is finished Rev 10:7 and Daniel 12:7)
5. compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: Rev 20:9 and Hebrews 12:22
It demonstrates the beloved city is the New Jerusalem. For this time is after the 7th Trumpet when the bride made herself ready and the bride is described as the New Jerusalem. If Satan is compassing the city that already existed and had already descended 1k years later, it is impossible to think Satan was not bound during her initial 1k years and just released to surround her that already existed.
6. the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, Rev 20:10
Satan is not concurrent with them in the Lake of Fire after Armageddon. He goes to the bottomless pit while they are in the lake of fire.

2nd Question:
If Satan was bound at the cross, when John viewed the Revelation and penned it approx. 96AD, he wrote in Rev 12:

a huge red dragon with seven heads, ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads.

The crowns were still on the heads of the dragon [Satan[. But we read later on that after that eventually, all 7 heads no longer wear crowns, but the horns do. (Revelation 13:1)

John stated, five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. That means Satan was not bound at the cross because the Dragon's 6th head still existed in 96AD.

How is Satan sealed in 96AD if he can still roam with the 6th head, 7th head and the beast body that is the 8th?

 

[WPM]

As I pointed out earlier, Satan is not thrown into the lake of fire with the beast of the sea nor the beast of the earth per Rev 19:20

1st question:
Where does Satan go? It’s only later that we read he’ll be thrown in there WHERE the false prophet and beast of the sea were per Rev 20:10. Why do they precede him?

Backdrop:
1. Satan, and bound him a thousand years Rev 20:2
2. they [believers martyred] lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years Rev 20:4 (the 1k years Satan is bound)
3. the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished Rev 20:5 (implies the 1st resurrection happens while Satan was bound)
4. when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison Rev 20:7 (After the 1st resurrection, after all is finished Rev 10:7 and Daniel 12:7)
5. compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: Rev 20:9 and Hebrews 12:22
It demonstrates the beloved city is the New Jerusalem. For this time is after the 7th Trumpet when the bride made herself ready and the bride is described as the New Jerusalem. If Satan is compassing the city that already existed and had already descended 1k years later, it is impossible to think Satan was not bound during her initial 1k years and just released to surround her that already existed.
6. the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, Rev 20:10
Satan is not concurrent with them in the Lake of Fire after Armageddon. He goes to the bottomless pit while they are in the lake of fire.

2nd Question:
If Satan was bound at the cross, when John viewed the Revelation and penned it approx. 96AD, he wrote in Rev 12:

a huge red dragon with seven heads, ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads.

The crowns were still on the heads of the dragon [Satan[. But we read later on that after that eventually, all 7 heads no longer wear crowns, but the horns do. (Revelation 13:1)

John stated, five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. That means Satan was not bound at the cross because the Dragon's 6th head still existed in 96AD.

How is Satan sealed in 96AD if he can still roam with the 6th head, 7th head and the beast body that is the 8th?

As you dive into the book of Revelation it is important to recognize that it is not chronological. It is a series of recaps. It presents different camera views of the same game (mainly, the period between Christ's First Advent and His Second Advent). Sometimes when one is watching a sports game, the camera is close in on the action, sometimes it presents a broad panoramic view of the game. Sometimes it is focused on the coaches, sometimes it is focused on the players, other times, it is focused on the fans. The book Revelation is a bit like that.

The book of Revelation consists of a number of parallel recaps relating to the intra-Advent period. Each of these refer to different subjects, entities or aspects of God's unfolding plan during that time. That does not negate the fact that God's dealings with the beast mirrors that of Satan since Christ’s first Advent. For example, the 6th recap (Revelation 17-19) focuses in on Babylon, but also shows the destruction of all the wicked, the beast and false prophet been banished into the Lake of Fire. Satan is simply not the focus of that parallel. The focus of the last recap (Revelation 20) is God's dealing with Satan. Revelation 20 goes right back to the first resurrection (Christ). It finishes with Satan being banished to the Lake of Fire.

This is why it is so important to have a good understanding of the full counsel of God. This allows you to have an accurate, comprehensive and balanced perspective of truth.

The different parallels in Revelation show different aspects or camera views of the same game, a game where Jesus conquers Satan and his kingdom at every turn. Revelation is therefore a victorious book for the believer to read, contrary to how Premil interprets it. Premil is always lauding the power and influence of Satan during this intra-Advent period. Amil is always exalting the power, authority, influence and dominion of Christ and the Church as it brings the good news of Christ to the nations.

 

[WPM]

I took my time and began to read slowly. Reading slow did not help your case, even in its triplicate. I presented specifics in the argument that you have not addressed. Instead of talking about them, you repeat copy and paste. Hardly an antidotal defense.

If Satan is currently sealed in prison, it assumes he is in the bottom less pit. All that is left is for him to be released and then defeated and cast into the lake of fire. But there is a major problem. Revelation 16 states:

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

If the Dragon is present here, you are assuming he has been released from the bottomless pit as you said READ SLOW and you maintain above its at the battle of Armageddon. Well, if he already entered the pit BEFORE Armageddon and he is seen here walking around, how do you contend with Rev 19 stating:

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Where is the Dragon? He isnt in the Lake of fire. Read Slow now Truth. VERY SLOW. The False Prophet and the Beast of the sea are in the lake of Fire and the Dragon isnt. WHY? Remember there is no Chapter breaks...

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him,

It's because he never was imprisoned otherwise, he'd be destroyed WITH them in the same lake. Its not till AFTER the 1k years expire that we see:

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are

Huh, look at that. When you read slow, you get answers. The dragon isnt cast in the lake of fire after Armageddon with the other 2. He must be in prison after then for 1k years and then will join them "where the beast and the false prophet are". Sound scriptural facts gained by slow reading and vivid research.

Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 12:31-33 Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11 and Revelation 20:2 prove Satan was bound, defeated, incapacitated, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped and spiritually imprisoned through Christ's sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” Satan has not been rendered immobile or inoperative but is limited in his power, kingship and influence by being defeated on the cross. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled.

When Satan was bound through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ then the kingdom of darkness was bound (including the beast and every demon). 2 Peter 2:4, Jude v 6, Revelation 9 and Revelation 20 all prove the whole demonic realm is currently restrained from stopping the free-flow of the Gospel. The bruising of the head of the beast (Revelation 13:3, 13:12 and 13:14) correlates with the bruising of the head of Satan 2,000 years ago through the earthly ministry of Christ (Genesis 3:15). They correspond with the spiritual binding imprisoning of Satan during the millennial period. These are figurative metaphors describing the impairment of the kingdom of darkness 2000 years ago.

Revelation 12:9 shows the close linkage between Satan and his minions when they were banished from heaven after the man child was caught up to His throne: “the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:3- similar says: “behold a great red dragon, And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.” You cannot divide Satan from the fate of his angels.

Of course, Christ predicted the historic and eternal downfall of Satan in John 12:31-33, shortly before the cross: “Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”

Christ’s life, death and resurrection were the decisive blows against Satan. His defeat has already been wrought. This passage plainly shows the powerful result of Calvary and the deep impact it had upon Satan. It shows us that Satan is now under Christ’s feet and is now subject to His Sovereign will. Satan and his minions are barred from heaven. They have been banished after they were defeated 2,000 years ago. You just have to look at the seismic difference between the condition of the Gentiles in Old Testament times and what Satan was able to do throughout the globe compared to New Testament times and you will see the mammoth victory that Jesus wrought against the kingdom of darkness through His victorious First Advent. Premillennialists reject that.

All we have to do, is examine the fate of each in Scripture and we will quickly see a remarkable correlation.

The book of Revelation consists of a number of parallel recaps relating to the intra-Advent period. Each of these refer to different subjects, entities or aspects of God's unfolding plan during that time. That does not negate the fact that God's dealings with the beast mirrors that of Satan since Christ’s first Advent. For example, the 6th recap (Revelation 17-19) focuses in on Babylon, but also shows the destruction of all the wicked, the beast and false prophet been banished into the Lake of Fire. Satan is simply not the focus of that parallel. The focus of the last recap (Revelation 20) is God's dealing with Satan. Revelation 20 goes right back to the first resurrection (Christ). It finishes with Satan being banished to the Lake of Fire.

The restraint of the kingdom of darkness stays in effect until just before the second coming, when hell’s legions are collectively released – for a short season at the end. The release of Satan, beast (mystery of iniquity), and demons (scorpions) all occur just prior to the second coming. This proves that the symbolism of Revelation relates to the here-and-now.

Satan gets a little season to wreak havoc on the Church. When Satan is released for a little season then so is the beast, and Satan's minions. We see the devils in Revelation 9:2-3, the beast in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, Revelation 11:7 and Revelation 17:8, and Satan in Revelation 9:10-11 and Revelation 20:3 all being released before the second coming for a little season.

The end of the millennium and Satan's "little season" corresponds with the end time persecution spoke elsewhere in Revelation and in other Scripture orchestrated by antichrist/the beast (described as lasting 3 1/2 years). The millennium does not follow Revelation 17-19 in time, but rather parallels it. Revelation 20 is the last of 7 recapitulations.

What happens at the end of the millennium mirrors what other Scripture tells us happens at the end of our age. There is an intense persecution at the end. Christ comes to judge as it concludes. There is much Scripture that teaches an end-time falling away and tribulation before Christ comes. Revelation 20 fits that perfectly. Satan's season mirrors 2 Thessalonians 2 and the release of the mystery of iniquity before Jesus comes. As the ESV states: “the mystery of lawlessness is …the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish.” It also mirrors the release of the beast in order to wreak havoc before Christ comes.

After Satan's last throw comes the end! Christ comes in majestic and eternal glory to overthrow the kingdom of darkness forever. The demonic realm is all killed when Satan is destroyed at the climactic second coming and from the brightness of His glory (Isaiah 26:19-27:1, 2 Thessalonians 2:8, Revelation 19:20, 20:9-10).

What arrives at the second coming is the eternal state - perfection. The earth will be finally and wholly purged of the bondage of corruption, not as Premils argue: we are plagued with another age like ours full of sin and sinners, crying and dying, Satan and his demons. This alleged future Premil millennial kingdom ends with the wicked overrunning the age to come and surrounding Christ in all His glory and the glorified saints.

 

[No Pre-TB]

As you dive into the book of Revelation it is important to recognize that it is not chronological. It is a series of recaps. It presents different camera views of the same game (mainly, the period between Christ's First Advent and His Second Advent). Sometimes when one is watching a sports game, the camera is close in on the action, sometimes it presents a broad panoramic view of the game. Sometimes it is focused on the coaches, sometimes it is focused on the players, other times, it is focused on the fans. The book Revelation is a bit like that.

The book of Revelation consists of a number of parallel recaps relating to the intra-Advent period. Each of these refer to different subjects, entities or aspects of God's unfolding plan during that time. That does not negate the fact that God's dealings with the beast mirrors that of Satan since Christ’s first Advent. For example, the 6th recap (Revelation 17-19) focuses in on Babylon, but also shows the destruction of all the wicked, the beast and false prophet been banished into the Lake of Fire. Satan is simply not the focus of that parallel. The focus of the last recap (Revelation 20) is God's dealing with Satan. Revelation 20 goes right back to the first resurrection (Christ). It finishes with Satan being banished to the Lake of Fire.

This is why it is so important to have a good understanding of the full counsel of God. This allows you to have an accurate, comprehensive and balanced perspective of truth.

The different parallels in Revelation show different aspects or camera views of the same game, a game where Jesus conquers Satan and his kingdom at every turn. Revelation is therefore a victorious book for the believer to read, contrary to how Premil interprets it. Premil is always lauding the power and influence of Satan during this intra-Advent period. Amil is always exalting the power, authority, influence and dominion of Christ and the Church as it brings the good news of Christ to the nations.

The question was directed to Truth.

 

[WPM]

The question was directed to Truth.

These are all open discussion threads.

 

[No Pre-TB]

These are all open discussion threads.

This is true. Nevertheless, I was in a conversation between him and myself. The question was to him. I did not add others by
@(insert name). You may see the commentary and reply, just note I will not be responding to anyone but him in this specific questioning.

 

[WPM]

This is true. Nevertheless, I was in a conversation between him and myself. The question was to him. I did not add others by
@(insert name). You may see the commentary and reply, just note I will not be responding to anyone but him in this specific questioning.

Why would that be? Do you not have a viable response?

 

[No Pre-TB]

Why would that be? Do you not have a viable response?

Some conversations are just to converse. Others because you enjoy the other’s company. Sometimes it’s nice to hear 1 persons opinion without other interference. My responses will be to him. Let him speak for himself without coercion.

 

[WPM]

Some conversations are just to converse. Others because you enjoy the other’s company. Sometimes it’s nice to hear 1 persons opinion without other interference. My responses will be to him. Let him speak for himself without coercion.

Not coercion. I am relaying what I believe to be is truth. So, are your interactions coercion?

 

[No Pre-TB]

Not coercion. I am relaying what I believe to be is truth. So, are your interactions coercion?

Well, If one day I care to hear your truth, I know where to find you. Good night.

 

[Truth7t7]

As I pointed out earlier, Satan is not thrown into the lake of fire with the beast of the sea nor the beast of the earth per Rev 19:20

1st question:
Where does Satan go? It’s only later that we read he’ll be thrown in there WHERE the false prophet and beast of the sea were per Rev 20:10. Why do they precede him?

Backdrop:
1. Satan, and bound him a thousand years Rev 20:2
2. they [believers martyred] lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years Rev 20:4 (the 1k years Satan is bound)
3. the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished Rev 20:5 (implies the 1st resurrection happens while Satan was bound)
4. when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison Rev 20:7 (After the 1st resurrection, after all is finished Rev 10:7 and Daniel 12:7)
5. compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: Rev 20:9 and Hebrews 12:22
It demonstrates the beloved city is the New Jerusalem. For this time is after the 7th Trumpet when the bride made herself ready and the bride is described as the New Jerusalem. If Satan is compassing the city that already existed and had already descended 1k years later, it is impossible to think Satan was not bound during her initial 1k years and just released to surround her that already existed.
6. the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, Rev 20:10
Satan is not concurrent with them in the Lake of Fire after Armageddon. He goes to the bottomless pit while they are in the lake of fire.

2nd Question:
If Satan was bound at the cross, when John viewed the Revelation and penned it approx. 96AD, he wrote in Rev 12:

a huge red dragon with seven heads, ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads.

The crowns were still on the heads of the dragon [Satan[. But we read later on that after that eventually, all 7 heads no longer wear crowns, but the horns do. (Revelation 13:1)

John stated, five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. That means Satan was not bound at the cross because the Dragon's 6th head still existed in 96AD.

How is Satan sealed in 96AD if he can still roam with the 6th head, 7th head and the beast body that is the 8th?

Thanks for the time, we disagree

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Davy]

Perhaps I should've acknowledged that many good Christians believe Dan 8 and 11 are about Antichrist. I was just expressing my own belief that Dan 7 is universally held to be about Antichrist and the Coming of the Son of Man in his Kingdom. I find all NT eschatology is linked to this chapter in Daniel.

I disagree with you. The ending of sacrifices and/or placing of the abomination is mentioned in Daniel 7, Daniel 8, Daniel 9, Daniel 11, and Daniel 12. So your theory doesn't carry much weight according to the written Word of God.

Well, it's really no different than you believing Dan 8 and 11 is about the Antichrist. Many believe those chapters contain info about Antiochus 4. So in Dan 9, many believe that the 70th Week was fulfilled at Christ's 1st Coming, and has nothing to do with Antichrist or the endtimes. For example, the Church Fathers, with the exception of 2 or 3, held that the 70th Week was the time in which Christ was crucified, leading to the desolation of the city of Jerusalem and the temple by the Romans.

Not interested 'how many' believe this or that. What God's written Word says is what is important, not popular belief. And because all those Daniel 7, Daniel 8, Daniel 9, Daniel 11, and Daniel 12 chapters link the same subject about the abomination of desolation, that's enough pointer to the final one who causes that being the Antichrist at the end of this world.

The 70th Week does not, in my opinion, have to be a full week, since it is the last week. Any part of the week is still the last week. If I said that I threw a party on the last week of Summer, that would pinpoint when the party would be--not how long it would be. We are told specifically in this passage that in the midst of the Week Messiah is cut off. For me, that means that last Week ends in the midst of the Week.

I read it differently. I see the destruction of the city and the sanctuary as *following* the end of the 70 Weeks. The death of Christ in the midst of the last Week ended the 70 Weeks prophecy, and led directly to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

I'm not sure our interpretations can be proved either way. I base my belief on the correspondence of Dan 9 and Luke 21. Otherwise, they don't make sense to me.

The 70th week is... a full "one week". Sorry, write your own Bible and call it something else if you want, as long as you tell people it's not the 'real' Bible of God's Word. But don't do that on a Christian forum like this one or any other, unless you want to be marked as an anti-Biblical subversive, which often means a Judaizer trying to hide as a Christian.