Paul claimed 3 times that Revelation 20:4 was a current reality.

[Truth7t7]

It's an event. That passage speaks of judgment and resurrection.



In verse 4? Of course I do. There are those who judge and those being judged.

"False" Revelation 20:4 states nothing about a resurrection as you claim

 

[ewq1938]

"False" Revelation 20:4 states nothing about a resurrection as you claim

You are wrong:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Dead people who live are alive due to a resurrection. The greek word used is the same word Jesus used about going from dead to living, which of course was the result of a resurrection. Doctrinal bias and ignorance of the greek word used causes you to knee jerk reject the truth.

 

[Truth7t7]

You are wrong:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Dead people who live are alive due to a resurrection. The greek word used is the same word Jesus used about going from dead to living, which of course was the result of a resurrection. Doctrinal bias and ignorance of the greek word used causes you to knee jerk reject the truth.

As stated no resurrection is seen as you claim, the Greek word "Anastasis" for "Resurrection" isn't seen in Revelation 20:4

Christians "Live" unto God, children of the "Living", those seen live and reign, no resurrection is seen

Your problem is, you have a pre-determined bias for a Millennial Kingdom on this earth, and you are trying desperately to create a living resurrected body to fill your Kingdom "Wrong"

Luke 20:38KJV
38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Revelation 20:4KJV
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[Trekson]

(1) Premil has to make the whole of Scripture some obscure and unintelligible Book. What is more, (2) they have to insert 1000 years into multiple passages where it does not belong in order to let it fit.

Let us see what the resurrection passages actually teach us. To do so, we need to bring as much relevant Scripture onto the table to help us.

Daniel 12:1-3 reveals, “And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.”

This reading shows a general resurrection involving two types of people – the righteous and the wicked; one group rises "to everlasting life" the other to "everlasting contempt." The fact that we see a clear description of the general resurrection of the righteous and the wicked tells us that this is a tribulation that occurs prior to the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The word here for “many” in the original Hebrew (rab) actually means: the abundance, referring to quantity, size, age, number, rank, quality. In the sense it is used here it includes everyone that is in the grave. Namely: “the abundance of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake.”

Daniel 12:2 teaches a general resurrection at the end of the tribulation. This is in order for a general judgment – sheep/goats, wheat/tares before the same throne at the same time.

The Old Testament and New Testament saints are glorified together. Hebrews 11:39-40 says, speaking of the Old Testament saints: “these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.” Or, they will not be glorified until resurrection day – the last day.

Job testified in Job 14:12-14, “So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.”

What does the resurrection coincide with? The time when the current corruptible heavens are changed and made anew.

The word translated “till” here is the Hebrew word ad that is consistently interpreted “unto” or “even unto” elsewhere throughout the Old Testament. Therefore, we can interpret this passage as saying: “So man lieth down, and riseth not: even unto the heavens be no more.” This shows that the resurrection of the dead occurs at the end of the world. This is shown elsewhere to be when Jesus comes.

Job asks a rhetorical question, "If a man die, shall he live again?" Of course, the answer is obvious: Yes, all men!

Job prophesied that the Lord would stand on this earth at the end of the age. Job 19:25-26: “For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God.”

The same resurrection expectation is alluded to in both Job 14:12-14 and Job 19:25-27. That is why Job prophesied that the Lord would stand on this earth at the end of the age. There is no other earth than this present one that Job would have been familiar with. Job is looking forward to the day that he will be devoid of corruption and will stand upon a new glorified earth resplendent in his new glorified body. The fact he says “the earth” tells us that this current earth will survive albeit in a regenerated earth fitted for glorified saints.

Job outlines a great mystery, that whilst worms in the grave would eat the body that he then possessed, he would still see the Lord again in the flesh at the latter day. Evidently, as the New Testament explains it, he would be clothed with a new body – an incorruptible one. The writer confirms when this will happen: “he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth.” Job would rise at “the last day” with all the dead in Christ. This fits in with many other passages talking about “the last day” (singular).

Isaiah speaks of the resurrection of the dead, in Isaiah 26:19-21-27:1, and also identifies it with the time Satan is finally destroyed, saying, “Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon.”

Let us 1st establish what we are looking at in this overall passage. We are looking at one final future coming of Christ. We are looking at the resurrection of all. We are looking at the judgment of all - the elect and the unregenerate. The major difference between the two parties being: believers experience their eternal reward, the ungodly experience eternal punishment.

As we have seen in the various judgment passages we have already looked at, Christ is shown here to raise all men at His coming and exercise final and eternal judgment upon all. Isaiah commences this general resurrection discourse here by stating “dead men shall live,” the reason being, because “the earth shall cast out the dead” (speaking about the general resurrection of the dead).

Regardless of how some may try to rewrite this passage, there is no stipulation that we are looking at the righteous alone in the text - quite the opposite. We are looking at the raising of all the dead at Christ's coming. Isaiah testifies 1st of all of his own personal participation in that great final all-consummating event as a believer and as an Old Testament saint. He rejoices in anticipation of that day, as should every single believer that looks for resurrection / judgment day, declaring “Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs.” The reason for the believer’s joy is that they experience glorification as they discard mortality and take on immortality, and they receive God’s eternal reward on this great final day.

The unsaved are different, even though they will be raised at the same time on this day, it is for the purpose of judgment and eternal punishment. This is not a day of joy for them. This is not a day of reward. We learn: “For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity.” When are the wicked punished? When “the LORD cometh out of his place” (of course talking about heaven). This is significantly the same time that that great enemy of the kingdom of God that old serpent/dragon Satan and the wicked are once and for all destroyed. The Hebrew word used here for slain is harag meaning to destroy out of hand, kill, put to death. The resurrection of the righteous must therefore happen at the end of the millennium (and Satan’s little season), the time expressly advanced as the time when Satan is finally slain.

None of your verses declare definitively that the righteous and the evil are resurrected at the same time. Is. 26 can easily be read as two separate events, Job doesn't differentiate either way. The whole concept of a time of tribulation throws many people off because it is either misidentified or assume such an event is a measurable period of time of the 70th week. I believe the passages that speak of "going into thy chambers" and "hide for a little while" are speaking of believing Israel in Rev. 12:14. It's also possible that Is. 26:19 was literally fulfilled on the day His body rose. The bible says the graves were opened and "many" came out (Matt. 27:52) (and your quote "The word here for “many” in the original Hebrew (rab) actually means: the abundance, referring to quantity, size, age, number, rank, quality. (the Greek word is very similar in meaning) In the sense it is used here it includes everyone that is in the grave. Namely: “the abundance of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake.”), perhaps it was understated because there was concern that might take precedence in peoples minds over the most important point that it was Christ who was raised, the rest were a historical sidebar. Your last paragraph sounds like the post 70th week Armageddon to me.

 

[Trekson]

Jesus said in Matthew 13:47-50, in the parable of the net: “the kingdom of heaven is ‘like unto’ (homoios or similar to) a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and (1) gathered the good into vessels, but (2) cast the bad away. So shall it be at the end of the world (or aion or age): the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

The harvest is split into two – “the bad” who are identified as “the wicked” and “the good” who are identified as “the just.” The symbolic drawing in of the net which sees the collective and simultaneous judgment of the wicked and the righteous is, like the parable of the wheat and the tares, identified with the end of the aioonos or the end of the age. The “sea” here represents the world or mankind. When it says that the net “gathered of every kind (or genos)” it means of ‘all mankind’ or ‘all born’.

Premillennialists have to butcher the inspired text in order for their doctrine to fit countless passages. They have to invent some imaginary 3rd group of people who do not exist in Scripture or in life. They say “the bad” are false believers in order to justify their error. But the text does not say that. They foist it upon the text.

Jesus taught in the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew 13:24-30, “The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, (1) Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but (2) gather the wheat into my barn.”

Verses 37-43 continues, “He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world (or aion or age); and the reapers are the angels. (1) As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (or aion or age). The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (2) Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”

Who are the wheat and who are the tares in this parable? And, is there anyone excluded from the scope of these two inclusive groupings? Or, put another way; are there any in-betweens or semi-tares / semi-wheat that are omitted in their description? Firstly, the wheat and tares are a symbolic collective inclusive representation of all mankind; the wheat representing “the children of the kingdom” (Matthew 13:38) – those saved by God’s wonderful grace; the tares representing “the children of the wicked one” (Matthew 13:38) – those outside of grace and of God. The righteous in this story are notably planted of God; the tares on the other hand are planted of the “enemy” – the devil. In fact, Matthew 13:39 states, “The enemy that sowed them is the devil.”

Here we see the final separation of the righteous and the wicked including the burning of those who practice lawlessness, and reward of those who belonged to Christ. Christ interchanges the phrases “the end of the world/age” and “the end of this world/age,” showing that the coming of Christ is indeed the end. This is in contrast to the blessed future eternal “age to come.”

Revelation 20:10-13 continues: “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”

Here we see “the earth and the heaven” flee away from the very presence of Christ coming upon His throne; it is clearly His appearing that ushers in the end. The arrival of the king of glory also sees the resurrection of the dead (righteous and wicked). Elsewhere in Scripture these things are located at His coming.

Rev. 14:15-19 says the opposite.

 

[Trekson]

It's an event. That passage speaks of judgment and resurrection.



In verse 4? Of course I do. There are those who judge and those being judged.

If you were to read it more closely, there are those on the thrones (judges) w/ "the right to judge", nothing says they are judging at that moment, and the souls of the martyrs who will live and reign w/ Christ. Same people, the raptured/resurrected church just given different roles to play as God wills.

 

[WPM]

Rev. 14:15-19 says the opposite.

Not so! Revelation 14:14-20 mirrors the many other climactic and general resurrection /judgment passages, “And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man (Christ), having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel (angel 1) came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud (Christ) thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. And another angel (angel 2) came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel (angel 3) came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. And the angel (angel 3) thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.”

This narrative reveals a vivid account of the harvest that accompanies the second coming at the end of this age. We see “the Son of man” appear upon “a white cloud” with “a golden crown” upon His head and “a sharp sickle” in His hand to reap that final crop “for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” Once again, we observe that it is at the second coming that the wicked are finally cast “into the great winepress of the wrath of God.”

John the Baptist testified of Christ and of the general judgment, in Matthew 3:12, saying, “he will throughly purge his floor, and (1) gather his wheat into the garner; but he will (2) ‘katakausei’ up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

The word katakakeesetai used here in the original denotes complete destruction. It means to be ‘utterly burned up’ or ‘wholly consumed’.

John the Baptist uses similar language here to what Christ used in our previous passage in Matthew 13:30, when speaking of the wheat and the tares, saying, “Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to ‘katakausei’ (or) ‘utterly burn up’ or ‘wholly consume’ them: but gather the wheat into my barn.” And verse 40 continues, “As therefore the tares are gathered and ‘katakausei’ (or) ‘utterly burned up’ or ‘wholly consumed’ in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.”

 

[WPM]

None of your verses declare definitively that the righteous and the evil are resurrected at the same time. Is. 26 can easily be read as two separate events, Job doesn't differentiate either way. The whole concept of a time of tribulation throws many people off because it is either misidentified or assume such an event is a measurable period of time of the 70th week. I believe the passages that speak of "going into thy chambers" and "hide for a little while" are speaking of believing Israel in Rev. 12:14. It's also possible that Is. 26:19 was literally fulfilled on the day His body rose. The bible says the graves were opened and "many" came out (Matt. 27:52) (and your quote "The word here for “many” in the original Hebrew (rab) actually means: the abundance, referring to quantity, size, age, number, rank, quality. (the Greek word is very similar in meaning) In the sense it is used here it includes everyone that is in the grave. Namely: “the abundance of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake.”), perhaps it was understated because there was concern that might take precedence in peoples minds over the most important point that it was Christ who was raised, the rest were a historical sidebar. Your last paragraph sounds like the post 70th week Armageddon to me.

Your pattern is to sidestep the evidence, and then voice what you have been taught. That is not wise, and is terrible hermeneutics.

Are you Pretrib?

 

[Trekson]

Not so! Revelation 14:14-20 mirrors the many other climactic and general resurrection /judgment passages, “And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man (Christ), having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel (angel 1) came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud (Christ) thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. And another angel (angel 2) came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel (angel 3) came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. And the angel (angel 3) thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.”

This narrative reveals a vivid account of the harvest that accompanies the second coming at the end of this age. We see “the Son of man” appear upon “a white cloud” with “a golden crown” upon His head and “a sharp sickle” in His hand to reap that final crop “for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” Once again, we observe that it is at the second coming that the wicked are finally cast “into the great winepress of the wrath of God.”

John the Baptist testified of Christ and of the general judgment, in Matthew 3:12, saying, “he will throughly purge his floor, and (1) gather his wheat into the garner; but he will (2) ‘katakausei’ up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

The word katakakeesetai used here in the original denotes complete destruction. It means to be ‘utterly burned up’ or ‘wholly consumed’.

John the Baptist uses similar language here to what Christ used in our previous passage in Matthew 13:30, when speaking of the wheat and the tares, saying, “Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to ‘katakausei’ (or) ‘utterly burn up’ or ‘wholly consume’ them: but gather the wheat into my barn.” And verse 40 continues, “As therefore the tares are gathered and ‘katakausei’ (or) ‘utterly burned up’ or ‘wholly consumed’ in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.”

Your understanding of this is wrong, read it again. Angel 3 is telling angel 2 to "thrust in the sharp sickle" and angel 2 does so. Angel 1 reaps the saved and angel 2 reaps the sinners.

 

[Trekson]

Your pattern is to sidestep the evidence, and then voice what you have been taught. That is not wise, and is terrible hermeneutics.

Are you Pretrib?

no, the evidence is contrary and I notice you mostly went w/ the OT and that's because most of the NT offers a different perspective.

 

[WPM]

Your understanding of this is wrong, read it again. Angel 3 is telling angel 2 to "thrust in the sharp sickle" and angel 2 does so. Angel 1 reaps the saved and angel 2 reaps the sinners.

What does that matter? It is a final climactic event that sees the resurrection and judgment of all mankind?

 

[WPM]

no, the evidence is contrary and I notice you mostly went w/ the OT and that's because most of the NT offers a different perspective.

You obviously do not read my posts. The opposite is the truth. Take the time to read back on my posts and you will see this is wrong. Did you even read #513 and #514?

Are you Pretrib?

 

[rwb]

None of your verses declare definitively that the righteous and the evil are resurrected at the same time. Is. 26 can easily be read as two separate events, Job doesn't differentiate either way. The whole concept of a time of tribulation throws many people off because it is either misidentified or assume such an event is a measurable period of time of the 70th week. I believe the passages that speak of "going into thy chambers" and "hide for a little while" are speaking of believing Israel in Rev. 12:14. It's also possible that Is. 26:19 was literally fulfilled on the day His body rose. The bible says the graves were opened and "many" came out (Matt. 27:52) (and your quote "The word here for “many” in the original Hebrew (rab) actually means: the abundance, referring to quantity, size, age, number, rank, quality. (the Greek word is very similar in meaning) In the sense it is used here it includes everyone that is in the grave. Namely: “the abundance of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake.”), perhaps it was understated because there was concern that might take precedence in peoples minds over the most important point that it was Christ who was raised, the rest were a historical sidebar. Your last paragraph sounds like the post 70th week Armageddon to me.

How about this passage that says all who are in the graves shall be resurrected the same hour that is coming?

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Davy]

There are two resurrections, the one for the church of believers and maybe Israeli saints and the rest of the world at the GWTJ "after" the millennium. They will be judged by either belief or unbelief or if they had no knowledge of Christ and his word they will be judged on their works based on the innate knowledge of good and evil inside us all, imo.

That is a 'traditional' belief, but it is a doctrine from men, and not what is actually written in God's Word.

I keeping reminding brethren to study what Apostle Paul taught about the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15, and translate the 4 Greek words in 1 Corinthians 15:53-54. And also... to be mindful of Isaiah 25:6-9 where Paul quoted the, "Death is swallowed up in victory" idea from, which applies to ALL nations and peoples at Christ's future return.

1 Cor 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
KJV

That above is not only about those in Christ still alive being 'changed' on the day of Christ's coming. It is about 'all'... that are still alive on the earth. The 'dead' are all... resurrected on that day, and all still alive are 'changed' on that day. That is actually what the Scriptures are showing.

But men' doctrines obviously bypass the OT prophets about this future event.

When Jesus comes, man's time in a flesh body will be over. The world to come is about everyone in a "spiritual body", including the "resurrection of damnation."

And I am surprised at how few even stop to consider that those of the "resurrection of damnation" will ALSO be in the body type of the resurrection, which is a "spiritual body"!

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

 

[rwb]

You are wrong:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Dead people who live are alive due to a resurrection. The greek word used is the same word Jesus used about going from dead to living, which of course was the result of a resurrection. Doctrinal bias and ignorance of the greek word used causes you to knee jerk reject the truth.

Yes, after death these martyred saints are alive in heaven, having LIVED and REIGNED with Christ in time, symbolized a thousand years. They are alive even after physical death because death no longer has power over those who are in Christ. While alive in time on this earth they believed Christ and from that moment the life they received through Him is eternal.

 

[ewq1938]

If you were to read it more closely, there are those on the thrones (judges) w/ "the right to judge", nothing says they are judging at that moment

The fact that a resurrection takes place proves a judgment was made.

 

[Timtofly]

Again, you're not differentiating between His body and His soul and spirit. Why you don't differentiate between them is beyond me. Paul did. He indicated that it's better to be away from the body because that means you're present with the Lord. That shows that you can be present with the Lord without a body. You are just denying the obvious here because you have allowed a denomination to dictate your beliefs.

This is only half the point. Paul said in the very first verse of 2 Corinthians 5, there is already a physical body from God immediately upon the soul leaving Adam's dead corruptible flesh behind. According to Paul it is more physical than this dead flesh we are in. This body is temporal, and the body from God is permanent. This body is corruptible, and the body from God is incorruptible. We still maintain soul and body in physical Paradise. That is where the tree of life is. Prior to the Cross, souls were without a body in Abraham's bosom. Every thing pertaining to the OT state of the soul, including location and a physical body, changed at the Cross. Except Amil are so stubborn on a single future resurrection, they deny all souls in Paradise have a resurrected physical body.

Ever heard of the point of interpreting all Scripture through the lens of one's eschatology? Those in Paradise don't need a resurrection. They will be gathered from all over Paradise/heaven. What is seen in Revelation 7 about Paradise, has been reality since the Cross.

What happens at the Second Coming for the entire church is glorification, the putting on of the spirit. We have the Holy Spirit as a substitute until we put on our own spirit. In the 5th Seal, John calls it putting on a robe of white. All souls in Paradise have a body, but are waiting to put on the spirit.

 

[Timtofly]

Premil mode of interpretation is horrible. It is all wrong.

It is called reading the Bible without any additional outside thought or input.

Obviously listening to the Holy Spirit is wrong to you.

Listening to human theology is better than listening to the Holy Spirit?

 

[Timtofly]

The righteous in this story are notably planted of God; the tares on the other hand are planted of the “enemy” – the devil. In fact, Matthew 13:39 states, “The enemy that sowed them is the devil.”

Changing God's Word?

Notably planted of God? You just quoted the verse, then change it by saying notably planted by God.

Here it is again in case you missed it:

"He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man."

This seed is sown after the Second Coming by Jesus Christ on the earth Himself. The angels are on the earth as well. Satan is on the earth sowing tares. Now this seed and tares are still in parable terms, but we know that these are not church sown seeds, they are Jesus sown seeds. This is not the church harvest. This is an angel harvest. These are not dead people resurrected. These are physically living people removed from Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

There is no resurrection mentioned at all in this parable, and yet you seem to interpret this with your Amil theology, which I have heard is very very wrong to do. You have added and forced God's Word to say resurrection in this text, when clearly it is about physically dying, and not a resurrection at all. In fact those tares have to wait 1,000 years to stand as the dead before the GWT. Yes, that is right. I interpret Scripture with Scripture.

They are not even dead yet, and you have them being resurrected. But you don't hold to an ongoing physical resurrection as Jesus claims in John 5. You don't even interpret John 5 correctly, but do so with Amil thought that claims a singular resurrection. Since Amil teach a singular resurrection, then they change all Scripture to force that singular resurrection onto all Scripture.

There are two types of people. Those found in the Lamb's book of life. Those not. The Lamb's book of life has not been unsealed until the 7th Seal is removed. So until a name can be removed, there is only one type of human. They all are in the Lamb's book of life. The difference is those who don't want to be redeemed, have been waiting in torment in the place prepared for Satan. At the point one's name is removed living or dead, that is it. But obviously people are in two separate places this moment while still named in the Lamb's book of life. If you think God purposely left out certain names, that is between you and God. If you think God can remove names while being sealed shut, then provide a verse to that point.

No one could be found worthy to open the book, so obviously no one could get in and remove or add names. But since the Atonement was offered to all of Adam's dead corruptible flesh, no one is a worse sinner to God, than the best sinner. One man brought sin into the world, and so death passed upon all men, for all have sinned.

 

[Timtofly]

As stated no resurrection is seen as you claim, the Greek word "Anastasis" for "Resurrection" isn't seen in Revelation 20:4

Christians "Live" unto God, children of the "Living", those seen live and reign, no resurrection is seen

Your problem is, you have a pre-determined bias for a Millennial Kingdom on this earth, and you are trying desperately to create a living resurrected body to fill your Kingdom "Wrong"

Luke 20:38KJV
38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Revelation 20:4KJV
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

"This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

This is a physical resurrection. What happens after the point they lived again is all physical. Don't you claim a first resurrection for yourself, or are you going to remain dead the rest of your existence?