Paul claimed 3 times that Revelation 20:4 was a current reality.

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Truth7t7

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All very good quotes. Yet you believe Christians are already in heaven. Make up your mind.
Scripture teaches that the souls of believers are in Abraham's Bosom in the presence of the Lord comforted,waiting for the last day resurrection that takes place at the second coming of Jesus Christ
 

WPM

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Scripture teaches that the souls of believers are in Abraham's Bosom in the presence of the Lord comforted,waiting for the last day resurrection that takes place at the second coming of Jesus Christ

Not so. Wrong. Jesus is not currently in Hades. Who taught you that? He and the dead in Christ are in heaven.

Jesus said in Luke 16:19-31, “There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.”

The passage continues, “Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead” (Luke 16:19-31).


The just are clearly “comforted” here.

The lost are clearly “tormented” here.

But it talking about the man in hell sending someone to his brothers who were still physically alive and warning them about the flames. This can't be after the coming of Christ.


Jesus said to the dying thief, in Luke 23:43, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Acts 7:59-60 records, “And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.”


Stephen’s spirit was separating from his body and went to be with God. However, his body was going to the grave.

2 Corinthians 5:8 says, "We are confident, I say, and willing rather ‘to be absent’ from the body, and ‘to be present’ with the Lord."


‘ekdeemeesai’ – ‘be absent’

‘endeemeesai’ – ‘be present’

Paul said in Philippians 1:21-24 says, “For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.”


Death was a promotion for Paul!!!

1 Thessalonians 5:10 tells us that Christ “died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.”


The writer to the Hebrews censures such a foolish earthly notion of focusing upon the physical Jerusalem below, in Hebrews 12:18, 22-23, saying, “For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest …but ye are come unto mount sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.”


Revelation

Revelation 14:13 agrees: “And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”


In Revelation 4:4, 10, 5:8, 14, 11:6, 19:4, we see 24 Elders around the throne in heaven. Who are they? Also, in Revelation 7 we see several references to 144,000 in heaven that have been redeemed from off the earth. Who are they?

Revelation 20:4 says, “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them.”


And continues, “I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”

Revelation 6:9-10 similarly says, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?”


Revelation 6:9-10 – the fifth seal – is unquestionably speaking (1) of heaven and also (2) of a time prior to the Second Advent and the day of God’s wrath – the sixth seal.

The very next verse of this narrative (6:11) says, “And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.”


Here we clearly have a heavenly scene, and a heavenly scene in this present period of time. It reveals the risen saints in glory awaiting the consummation of all things.

Revelation 15:1-3 says, “I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, andover his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the lamb, saying, great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.”


Again, this relates to the intra-Advent period. Also, there is no doubt that this scene is in heaven and that “victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name” evidently meant martyrdom for those in view. However, absent from the body for the believer assuredly means present with the Lord in His heavenly abode.

Revelation 7:9-14 adds further light on the matter, saying, “I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb…one of the elders answered, saying unto me, what are these which are arrayed in white robes? And whence came they? And I said unto him, sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, these are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”


The souls are therefore identified here as (1) the redeemed and are clearly located (2) in heaven.

Verse 15 continues, “Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.”
 
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Trekson

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  • Is there anywhere in Scripture that talks about "resurrection days" (plural)?
  • Is there anywhere in Scripture that talks about "judgement days" (plural)?
The Bible only talks about "the resurrection" (singular), never "the resurrections" (plural). That is a Premillennialist innovation. The Bible only talks about “the day of judgment” or "the judgment" (singular), never “judgment days” (plural) or "the judgments" (plural). That is a Premillennialist invention.

For there to be one general judgment then Scripture must also teach one general resurrection. This, I believe, Scripture does in various places.

I believe there is one physical resurrection day that sees one all-encompassing raising of mankind. However, within that one resurrection there are two distinct categories of rising embodied: (1) unto “life,” and (2) unto “damnation.” Notwithstanding, there is an undoubted order to the general resurrection; the dead in Christ will rise first, then the living, etc.
They don't need to be pluralized because they aren't speaking of two events happening at the same time. They are different types in different times so there would be no reason for pluralization.
 

Truth7t7

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Not so. Wrong. Jesus is not currently in Hades. Who taught you that? He and the dead in Christ are in heaven.

Jesus said in Luke 16:19-31, “There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.”

The passage continues, “Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead” (Luke 16:19-31).

The just are clearly “comforted” here.

The lost are clearly “tormented” here.

But it talking about the man in hell sending someone to his brothers who were still physically alive and warning them about the flames. This can't be after the coming of Christ.

Jesus said to the dying thief, in Luke 23:43, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."


Acts 7:59-60 records, “And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.”

Stephen’s spirit was separating from his body and went to be with God. However, his body was going to the grave.

2 Corinthians 5:8 says, "We are confident, I say, and willing rather ‘to be absent’ from the body, and ‘to be present’ with the Lord."


‘ekdeemeesai’ – ‘be absent’

‘endeemeesai’ – ‘be present’

Paul said in Philippians 1:21-24 says, “For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.”


Death was a promotion for Paul!!!

1 Thessalonians 5:10 tells us that Christ “died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.”


The writer to the Hebrews censures such a foolish earthly notion of focusing upon the physical Jerusalem below, in Hebrews 12:18, 22-23, saying, “For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest …but ye are come unto mount sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.”

Revelation

Revelation 14:13 agrees: “And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”


In Revelation 4:4, 10, 5:8, 14, 11:6, 19:4, we see 24 Elders around the throne in heaven. Who are they? Also, in Revelation 7 we see several references to 144,000 in heaven that have been redeemed from off the earth. Who are they?

Revelation 20:4 says, “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them.”


And continues, “I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”

Revelation 6:9-10 similarly says, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?”

Revelation 6:9-10 – the fifth seal – is unquestionably speaking (1) of heaven and also (2) of a time prior to the Second Advent and the day of God’s wrath – the sixth seal.

The very next verse of this narrative (6:11) says, “And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.”


Here we clearly have a heavenly scene, and a heavenly scene in this present period of time. It reveals the risen saints in glory awaiting the consummation of all things.

Revelation 15:1-3 says, “I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, andover his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the lamb, saying, great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.”


Again, this relates to the intra-Advent period. Also, there is no doubt that this scene is in heaven and that “victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name” evidently meant martyrdom for those in view. However, absent from the body for the believer assuredly means present with the Lord in His heavenly abode.

Revelation 7:9-14 adds further light on the matter, saying, “I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb…one of the elders answered, saying unto me, what are these which are arrayed in white robes? And whence came they? And I said unto him, sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, these are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”


The souls are therefore identified here as (1) the redeemed and are clearly located (2) in heaven.

Verse 15 continues, “Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.”
"I will concede" to the scripture below, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord, heaven is ok with me as you describe it

2 Corinthians 5:8KJV
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
 
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No Pre-TB

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“and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.”

Hmm. John saw 1 group’s souls and they lived and reigned. That group is identified as having been previously dead because vs. 5 differentiates between them from the rest of the dead that didn’t live to reign with Christ. The first group also are protected from the second death.

The second group is not protected from the second death if they’re not written in the book of life. The second group also is said to not rise till the thousand years are finished; the time period the first group lives and reigns.

What thousand years? The time frame of Christ rule and the time frame of Satan’s confinement.

Either way, 2 different groups separated by 1k years. Only the first group is guaranteed to be free from the harmful effects of the second death.
 

WPM

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They don't need to be pluralized because they aren't speaking of two events happening at the same time. They are different types in different times so there would be no reason for pluralization.

Not true. Both the righteous and the wicked are resurrected and judged at the same time/event. Multiple Scripture supports that. This destroys the Premil theory. The main difference between what we believe is: Premils interpret the the rest of Scripture in the light of their faulty opinion of Revelation 20, whereas Amils interpret Revelation 20 in the light of the clear and repeated teaching of the whole of Scripture. There is a BIG difference in their hermeneutics. Premil mode of interpretation is horrible. It is all wrong.
 

ewq1938

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Both happen at the same time although the dead in Christ are first by about a millisecond or two.

Which is almost the same time not the same time. Rev 20:4 has a resurrection not a rapture.

Always apply this:

The resurrected are not raptured.
The raptured are not resurrected.

Only the dead are resurrected.
Only the living are raptured.
 

Brakelite

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Says the false prophetess Ellen G.White, and the cult of 7th Day Adventism that you follow

Add to that Ellen's 2,000+ self proclaimed dreams and visions given by God, and you believe her "Lies"

Jesus Is The Lord
Your deliberate choice to remain ignorant and determined effort to compartmentalize true Christians as heretics and cultists simply because they believe scripture (which I quoted at length), the same scriptures you apparently reject, reveals a motive devoid of true Christian learning and desire for truth.
 

Trekson

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Not true. Both the righteous and the wicked are resurrected and judged at the same time/event. Multiple Scripture supports that. This destroys the Premil theory. The main difference between what we believe is: Premils interpret the the rest of Scripture in the light of their faulty opinion of Revelation 20, whereas Amils interpret Revelation 20 in the light of the clear and repeated teaching of the whole of Scripture. There is a BIG difference in their hermeneutics. Premil mode of interpretation is horrible. It is all wrong.
Respectfully, I believe the Amills are being deceived and are not discerning what "all" of prophecy has to say about these issues and not just the cherry picked ones that seem to support their viewpoint. I can't speak on what "all" premills believe but I base what I believe on the whole of prophecy for ex. Dan. 12:2. One could read it as occurring at the same time or it can also be understood as happening at different times. Those mentioned first at the rapture/resurrection and those mentioned second at the GWTJ. I believe the second rendering stays closer to what the rest of scripture says regarding this topic.
 

Trekson

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Which is almost the same time not the same time. Rev 20:4 has a resurrection not a rapture.

Always apply this:

The resurrected are not raptured.
The raptured are not resurrected.

Only the dead are resurrected.
Only the living are raptured.
Agreed, but if they're both in Christ it will be the same event. Rev. 20:4 isn't talking of an event, just assigning duties to the martyrs who were already resurrected. You know there are two groups spoken of there, right?
 

WPM

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Respectfully, I believe the Amills are being deceived and are not discerning what "all" of prophecy has to say about these issues and not just the cherry picked ones that seem to support their viewpoint. I can't speak on what "all" premills believe but I base what I believe on the whole of prophecy for ex. Dan. 12:2. One could read it as occurring at the same time or it can also be understood as happening at different times. Those mentioned first at the rapture/resurrection and those mentioned second at the GWTJ. I believe the second rendering stays closer to what the rest of scripture says regarding this topic.

(1) Premil has to make the whole of Scripture some obscure and unintelligible Book. What is more, (2) they have to insert 1000 years into multiple passages where it does not belong in order to let it fit.

Let us see what the resurrection passages actually teach us. To do so, we need to bring as much relevant Scripture onto the table to help us.

Daniel 12:1-3 reveals, “And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.”

This reading shows a general resurrection involving two types of people – the righteous and the wicked; one group rises "to everlasting life" the other to "everlasting contempt." The fact that we see a clear description of the general resurrection of the righteous and the wicked tells us that this is a tribulation that occurs prior to the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The word here for “many” in the original Hebrew (rab) actually means: the abundance, referring to quantity, size, age, number, rank, quality. In the sense it is used here it includes everyone that is in the grave. Namely: “the abundance of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake.”

Daniel 12:2 teaches a general resurrection at the end of the tribulation. This is in order for a general judgment – sheep/goats, wheat/tares before the same throne at the same time.

The Old Testament and New Testament saints are glorified together. Hebrews 11:39-40 says, speaking of the Old Testament saints: “these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.” Or, they will not be glorified until resurrection day – the last day.

Job testified in Job 14:12-14, “So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.”

What does the resurrection coincide with? The time when the current corruptible heavens are changed and made anew.

The word translated “till” here is the Hebrew word ad that is consistently interpreted “unto” or “even unto” elsewhere throughout the Old Testament. Therefore, we can interpret this passage as saying: “So man lieth down, and riseth not: even unto the heavens be no more.” This shows that the resurrection of the dead occurs at the end of the world. This is shown elsewhere to be when Jesus comes.

Job asks a rhetorical question, "If a man die, shall he live again?" Of course, the answer is obvious: Yes, all men!

Job prophesied that the Lord would stand on this earth at the end of the age. Job 19:25-26: “For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God.”

The same resurrection expectation is alluded to in both Job 14:12-14 and Job 19:25-27. That is why Job prophesied that the Lord would stand on this earth at the end of the age. There is no other earth than this present one that Job would have been familiar with. Job is looking forward to the day that he will be devoid of corruption and will stand upon a new glorified earth resplendent in his new glorified body. The fact he says “the earth” tells us that this current earth will survive albeit in a regenerated earth fitted for glorified saints.

Job outlines a great mystery, that whilst worms in the grave would eat the body that he then possessed, he would still see the Lord again in the flesh at the latter day. Evidently, as the New Testament explains it, he would be clothed with a new body – an incorruptible one. The writer confirms when this will happen: “he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth.” Job would rise at “the last day” with all the dead in Christ. This fits in with many other passages talking about “the last day” (singular).

Isaiah speaks of the resurrection of the dead, in Isaiah 26:19-21-27:1, and also identifies it with the time Satan is finally destroyed, saying, Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon.”

Let us 1st establish what we are looking at in this overall passage. We are looking at one final future coming of Christ. We are looking at the resurrection of all. We are looking at the judgment of all - the elect and the unregenerate. The major difference between the two parties being: believers experience their eternal reward, the ungodly experience eternal punishment.

As we have seen in the various judgment passages we have already looked at, Christ is shown here to raise all men at His coming and exercise final and eternal judgment upon all. Isaiah commences this general resurrection discourse here by stating “dead men shall live,” the reason being, because “the earth shall cast out the dead” (speaking about the general resurrection of the dead).

Regardless of how some may try to rewrite this passage, there is no stipulation that we are looking at the righteous alone in the text - quite the opposite. We are looking at the raising of all the dead at Christ's coming. Isaiah testifies 1st of all of his own personal participation in that great final all-consummating event as a believer and as an Old Testament saint. He rejoices in anticipation of that day, as should every single believer that looks for resurrection / judgment day, declaring “Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs.” The reason for the believer’s joy is that they experience glorification as they discard mortality and take on immortality, and they receive God’s eternal reward on this great final day.

The unsaved are different, even though they will be raised at the same time on this day, it is for the purpose of judgment and eternal punishment. This is not a day of joy for them. This is not a day of reward. We learn: “For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity.” When are the wicked punished? When “the LORD cometh out of his place” (of course talking about heaven). This is significantly the same time that that great enemy of the kingdom of God that old serpent/dragon Satan and the wicked are once and for all destroyed. The Hebrew word used here for slain is harag meaning to destroy out of hand, kill, put to death. The resurrection of the righteous must therefore happen at the end of the millennium (and Satan’s little season), the time expressly advanced as the time when Satan is finally slain.
 

Truth7t7

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Your deliberate choice to remain ignorant and determined effort to compartmentalize true Christians as heretics and cultists simply because they believe scripture (which I quoted at length), the same scriptures you apparently reject, reveals a motive devoid of true Christian learning and desire for truth.
Annihilation is a false doctrine found within the cults of 7th Day Adventism and the Jehovahs Witnesses, The wicked will suffer eternal conscious torment

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
 

WPM

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Respectfully, I believe the Amills are being deceived and are not discerning what "all" of prophecy has to say about these issues and not just the cherry picked ones that seem to support their viewpoint. I can't speak on what "all" premills believe but I base what I believe on the whole of prophecy for ex. Dan. 12:2. One could read it as occurring at the same time or it can also be understood as happening at different times. Those mentioned first at the rapture/resurrection and those mentioned second at the GWTJ. I believe the second rendering stays closer to what the rest of scripture says regarding this topic.


New Testament

There are two Greek words used in the NT that are used to describe the resurrection of Christ, and that are significantly, in turn, purposely equated to mankind; they are egeiro (Strong’s 1453) and anastasis (Strong’s 386).

Jesus said in Matthew 12:41-42, “The men of Nineveh shall rise [Gr. anistemi] in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. The queen of the south shall rise up [Gr. egeiro] in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.”

The righteous Old Testament Gentile saint – the queen of the south – is raised at the same time as the wicked Pharisees of Christ’s day to stand before the same judgment seat of Christ.

This is further impressed in the parallel portion in Luke 11:31, only with an additional example, saying, “The queen of the south shall rise up [Gr. egeiro] in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here. The men of Nineveh shall rise up [Gr. anistemi] in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.”

Here, the two main words used throughout the New Testament for resurrection are applied to the general resurrection that occurs on Judgment Day when the Old Testament time saints and wicked join the New Testament saints and wicked at the judgment. Remember the queen of the south and Nineveh are presented as Old Testament Gentile saints that will “rise up in the judgment with” the wicked unbelieving Jews of Christ’s day. There is no prolonged parenthesis period separating the resurrection of the wicked dead and the resurrection of the righteous dead. They both “rise up” at the same time. The Old Testament Gentile city of Nineveh is shown to “rise up in the judgment with” (or meta) the religious Jewish world of Christ’s day and “condemn it.” The Greek word meta (3326) is described in Strong’s concordance as “a primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly, denoting accompaniment; ‘amid’.”

Amillennialists therefore maintain that there is one general resurrection, of the just and unjust, at the second advent of Christ. The righteous then inherit the earth in an eternal state. Premils understanding of Revelation 20 conflict with numerous Scripture.

Jesus explains in John 5:28-29, “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

Please notice “the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth.” We are not just looking at the righteous, we are looking at both the righteous and the wicked. The passage goes on to confirm: “they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” All that are in the graves will come forth when He comes. The righteous will be ushered into His glorious kingdom, the wicked shall be damned for all eternity in the lake of fire.

The righteous and wicked dead all rise in response to the same sovereign voice - Christ's. Christ’s description of the resurrection depicts a unitary event, albeit in two parts. Part 1 is the elect; Part 2 is the wicked. Jesus explains in John 5:28-29, “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth.” Evidently there is only one resurrection albeit involving two separated aspects: “they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

There is no 1,000 years’ separation mentioned or hinted at in here.

There is one physical resurrection day in which there are two types of raising, (1) unto life, (2) unto damnation. Acts 24:15 says, “there shall be a resurrection of the dead (singular), both of the just and unjust.”

This verse speaks of a singular “resurrection of the dead” not multiple resurrections (plural) of the dead as the Premillennialist would try and intimate. The fact that Paul differentiates between the wicked and the righteous in no way proves that these are two separate resurrections coming at the end of two separate ages split by 1,000 years+ of history (filled with all the produce of the curse – sin, death and corruption). No, it simply demonstrates that there are two types of resurrection in the one final resurrection of the dead at the end. In fact, for Premils to insist on their concept is to force something into the passage that doesn’t truly exist. Scripture constantly distinguishes between the wicked and the righteous even though they are found participating in the same event at the same time. Why would anyone think it strange that the Holy Spirit would identify the two different parties that take part in the general “resurrection of the dead”? After all, it is a normal biblical procedure to distinguish between these two conflicting camps. Although to suggest that the identifying of these two distinct parties indicates two separate events at two separate times is illogical.

Once again, there is one physical resurrection day in which there are two types of raising, (1) unto life, (2) unto damnation.
 
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WPM

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Agreed, but if they're both in Christ it will be the same event. Rev. 20:4 isn't talking of an event, just assigning duties to the martyrs who were already resurrected. You know there are two groups spoken of there, right?

Jesus said in Matthew 13:47-50, in the parable of the net: the kingdom of heaven is ‘like unto(homoios or similar to) a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and (1) gathered the good into vessels, but (2) cast the bad away. So shall it be at the end of the world (or aion or age): the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

The harvest is split into two – “the bad” who are identified as “the wicked” and “the good” who are identified as “the just.” The symbolic drawing in of the net which sees the collective and simultaneous judgment of the wicked and the righteous is, like the parable of the wheat and the tares, identified with the end of the aioonos or the end of the age. The “sea” here represents the world or mankind. When it says that the net “gathered of every kind (or genos)” it means of ‘all mankind’ or ‘all born’.

Premillennialists have to butcher the inspired text in order for their doctrine to fit countless passages. They have to invent some imaginary 3rd group of people who do not exist in Scripture or in life. They say “the bad” are false believers in order to justify their error. But the text does not say that. They foist it upon the text.

Jesus taught in the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew 13:24-30, “The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, (1) Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but (2) gather the wheat into my barn.”

Verses 37-43 continues, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world (or aion or age); and the reapers are the angels. (1) As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (or aion or age). The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (2) Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”

Who are the wheat and who are the tares in this parable? And, is there anyone excluded from the scope of these two inclusive groupings? Or, put another way; are there any in-betweens or semi-tares / semi-wheat that are omitted in their description? Firstly, the wheat and tares are a symbolic collective inclusive representation of all mankind; the wheat representing “the children of the kingdom” (Matthew 13:38) – those saved by God’s wonderful grace; the tares representing “the children of the wicked one” (Matthew 13:38) – those outside of grace and of God. The righteous in this story are notably planted of God; the tares on the other hand are planted of the “enemy” – the devil. In fact, Matthew 13:39 states, “The enemy that sowed them is the devil.”

Here we see the final separation of the righteous and the wicked including the burning of those who practice lawlessness, and reward of those who belonged to Christ. Christ interchanges the phrases “the end of the world/age” and “the end of this world/age,” showing that the coming of Christ is indeed the end. This is in contrast to the blessed future eternal “age to come.”

Revelation 20:10-13 continues: And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”

Here we see “the earth and the heaven” flee away from the very presence of Christ coming upon His throne; it is clearly His appearing that ushers in the end. The arrival of the king of glory also sees the resurrection of the dead (righteous and wicked). Elsewhere in Scripture these things are located at His coming.
 
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Brakelite

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Annihilation is a false doctrine found within the cults of 7th Day Adventism and the Jehovahs Witnesses, The wicked will suffer eternal conscious torment

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
What does the bible say is 'the wages of sin'. What did Jesus endure in order to take upon Himself the punishment for sin that was ours? Answer those questions honestly. Then explain how conscious eternal torment relates to death and Calvary.
 

Truth7t7

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Once again, there is one physical resurrection day in which there are two types of raising, (1) unto life, (2) unto damnation.
Yes (Two) different resurrection are seen below, the first resurrection and the second death resurrection

Judgement takes place immediately at the second coming on the last day, scripture tells us it's in the blink of an eye, the resurrection of life, and the resurrection of damnation (The End)

1.) The First Resurrection (Life)
2.) The Second Death Resurrection (Damnation)

Revelation 20:6 & 11-15KJV
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 

Brakelite

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Annihilation is a false doctrine found within the cults of 7th Day Adventism and the Jehovahs Witnesses, The wicked will suffer eternal conscious torment

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Refer here also... Just what I've been saying above...
 

Truth7t7

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Refer here also... Just what I've been saying above...
"Soul Sleep" Is A False Teaching, 7th Day Adventism's (Ellen G. White) Was A False Prophetess, 2,000+ Self Proclaimed Dreams And Visions Given By God, "A Lie"!

Annihilation is a false doctrine found within the cults of 7th Day Adventism and the Jehovahs Witnesses, The wicked will suffer eternal conscious torment

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night
, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
 

ewq1938

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Rev. 20:4 isn't talking of an event, just assigning duties to the martyrs who were already resurrected.

It's an event. That passage speaks of judgment and resurrection.

You know there are two groups spoken of there, right?

In verse 4? Of course I do. There are those who judge and those being judged.