Paul claimed 3 times that Revelation 20:4 was a current reality.

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Timtofly

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Yes it is about the Church. Why do you think they were beheaded? They were martyred for their faith because they are the Church! They will be physically resurrected with every human at the end of this age. They already lived and reigned with Christ in TIME, symbolized a thousand years. That's why they were martyred for the faith. Yes, the Church, though small in number no doubt will still be upon this earth when Satan is loosed for his little season to surround them. That's when the Church still alive at that time will be caught up to meet the Lord, and fire will come down from God out of heaven to utterly burn up all who are still alive on the earth.
You have literally no Scripture claiming this. These beheaded are not even beheaded yet. Satan is not in charge for his 42 months yet, demanding humans receive the mark of the beast. There is no symbolic act of beheading the church has been subjected to. Being beheaded is specific, not symbolic. Name one NT Scripture that corroborates beheading as a means of being a church member.

Only those beheaded in the last 42 months of this current state of sin and death, known as the AoD is when these sinners are even beheaded, ie physically killed. All humans are sinners until physical death.
 

marks

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Revelation 20:4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The fact that some are seated with Christ in the heavenly realm NOW in now wise means or indicates that these named above - those who refuse the mark or to worship the beast - will not come to life and reign with Chrsit 1000 years.

Should we think that everyone who will ever be born is born in our generation? Or might some come later? This prophecy foretells that these will live again after being martyred in the great tribulation, and before the 1000 years, and why not simply accept that for what it says?

Much love!
 

Marty fox

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The fact that some are seated with Christ in the heavenly realm NOW in now wise means or indicates that these named above - those who refuse the mark or to worship the beast - will not come to life and reign with Chrsit 1000 years.

Should we think that everyone who will ever be born is born in our generation? Or might some come later? This prophecy foretells that these will live again after being martyred in the great tribulation, and before the 1000 years, and why not simply accept that for what it says?

Much love!
Because I believe that we are in the thousand years and the GT and they were martyred back in the past.
 
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Marty fox

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Yes it is about the Church. Why do you think they were beheaded? They were martyred for their faith because they are the Church! They will be physically resurrected with every human at the end of this age. They already lived and reigned with Christ in TIME, symbolized a thousand years. That's why they were martyred for the faith. Yes, the Church, though small in number no doubt will still be upon this earth when Satan is loosed for his little season to surround them. That's when the Church still alive at that time will be caught up to meet the Lord, and fire will come down from God out of heaven to utterly burn up all who are still alive on the earth.

I believe that satan is already released and the proof is the conforming church which weakens the Holy Spirit within it which is holding back satan
 

marks

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Because I believe that we are in the thousand years and the GT and they were martyred back in the past.
Do you mean that to say that we are in the 1000 years and the GT? Or that the GT and the martyred are both past?

Much love!
 

Timtofly

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Yes it is about the Church. Why do you think they were beheaded? They were martyred for their faith because they are the Church! They will be physically resurrected with every human at the end of this age. They already lived and reigned with Christ in TIME, symbolized a thousand years. That's why they were martyred for the faith. Yes, the Church, though small in number no doubt will still be upon this earth when Satan is loosed for his little season to surround them. That's when the Church still alive at that time will be caught up to meet the Lord, and fire will come down from God out of heaven to utterly burn up all who are still alive on the earth.
That is your interpretation and bias.

You still cannot reconcile that they were killed in Satan's 42 months prior to Armageddon, and were resurrected to reign with Christ for 1,000 years. They never physically die for 1,000 years. They keep living on the new earth after the 1,000 years.

They reign after their first resurrection, not as their first resurrection.
 

rwb

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You have literally no Scripture claiming this. These beheaded are not even beheaded yet. Satan is not in charge for his 42 months yet, demanding humans receive the mark of the beast. There is no symbolic act of beheading the church has been subjected to. Being beheaded is specific, not symbolic. Name one NT Scripture that corroborates beheading as a means of being a church member.

Only those beheaded in the last 42 months of this current state of sin and death, known as the AoD is when these sinners are even beheaded, ie physically killed. All humans are sinners until physical death.

I was under the impression that we were simply giving our opinion without the need for verification from Scripture. After all that is what I responded to.
 

rwb

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I believe that satan is already released and the proof is the conforming church which weakens the Holy Spirit within it which is holding back satan

I too have had similar thoughts about Satan being in his "little season"??? I'm just not sure?
 
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Marty fox

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I too have had similar thoughts about Satan being in his "little season"??? I'm just not sure?

To me it’s the conforming church that seams to point to it but only the binding ending not the reigning.
 

Marty fox

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Do you mean that to say that we are in the 1000 years and the GT? Or that the GT and the martyred are both past?

Much love!

Yes I believe that we are in the thousand years and we are still in the great tribulation which is on the church not the world.
 
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CadyandZoe

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Others have made the point already. The epistles of Paul are not parallel to Revelation chapter 20. IF one were looking for parallel passages, one would expect to find more than one point of contact between them. As others have pointed out, while he speaks about being "made alive", Paul doesn't talk about martyrdom, the mark of the beast, being given authority to rule, the binding of Satan, or resurrection.

I think, upon closer examination of Paul's letters, I think we will find that he often speaks about the promises of God using verbs in the aorist tense, which has no time aspect. He says, for instance, that even while we were dead in our sins, (past tense) he made us alive with Christ. (aorist tense) In his epistles he bridges the gap between potentiality and actuality, knowing that God would never fail to keep his promise. But being made alive potentially is not the same as being made alive actually. As he says, Ephesians 2:7, we await the surpassing wealth of his grace in the coming ages, when God's promises are actualized.

John adopts the aorist tense in Revelation 20, in order to place the standpoint of the reader within the same time frame as the events, giving the reader an eyewitness account. And since a prophetic word is a non-contingent potentiality, John adopts the aorist tense. If John meant to convey the idea that believers are already made alive, he would have adopted past tense verbs (actuality) rather than the aorist tense. (potentiality)
 
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Timtofly

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I was under the impression that we were simply giving our opinion without the need for verification from Scripture. After all that is what I responded to.
I was verifying the Scriptural aspect of Revelation 20 with the current state of affairs.

You then stated your opinion on the current state of affairs without any Scriptures.

Are we in Satan's 42 months where people are being forced to accept the mark or have their head chopped off?

That is what Revelation 20 is stating, not your opinion on the first century.

Has this beheading and accepting the mark occurred at any other point in history?

Your opinion is changing the text of Revelation 20. Jesus did not stand before thrones and declared righteous and given life to rule with Himself.
 

Randy Kluth

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Jesus testified in John 16:11: “the prince of this world is judged.”

The devil is already judged. He is not waiting to be judged. He is already been condemned to his eternal doom.

In John 12:31-33 Christ predicted, shortly before He defeated the power of Satan at the cross, “now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die(John 12:31-33).

Satan being cast out of heaven means his seat of accusation against believers before God is gone forever. He cannot accuse you before the throne of heaven anymore, because your penalty is fully paid. The only thing he can do is point the finger to you directly and hope that you are stupid enough to listen to him.
This is far off of the beaten path! Satan is still the prince of the power of the air, and he still accuses believers. He still opposes the word of God and the coming Kingdom of God. He is hardly in a prison, though he was certainly cheated of his ability to impose death on those of us who have received Christ.

Eph 2.2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
Rom 16.20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.


When Jesus said "now is the judgment of this world," he was speaking of the entire NT era--not just the Cross. And that's because the place Satan was cast out of was the place of God's Kingdom on earth, the Church. Jesus released the prisoners from the condemnation of their sin, and from the efficacy of their Accuser.

2 Tim 1.10 but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

But Satan will not stop attacking the saints until the last trumpet is blown at the end of the age. Christ must come back to finally defeat Satan and to imprison him. That's what Rev 20 says, and that's what other Scriptures say. Satan's place outside of God's Kingdom has been legally settled, but he remains in power over the earth, and over those who remain in rebellion against God.

2 Thes 1.6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed.
2.8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

Rev 20.2 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
 

CadyandZoe

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Your reply lacks proof from Scripture??? The last day resurrection that John writes of is only for "the dead"! John makes no mention in Rev 20 of the resurrection of the righteous saints being judged at the GWTJ. Why? Because only "the dead" stand before God to give account according to what is written in the books, and the book of life. Where in the following passage do we find those living, who were changed from mortal to immortal and from corruptible to incorruptible when the seventh trumpet sounded, and they were physically resurrected and changed being judged from what is written in the books and the book of life?

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The living, being already clothed in immortal bodies were resurrected in the same hour coming, at the return of Christ, but their eternal fate is not judgment and the lake of fire it is for eternal life as complete living souls as man was at creation before sin and death entered into creation. They stand with Christ at the GWTJ, but not to be judged by what is written in the books. They have already been found in the book of life when they partook of the first resurrection in life, that is the resurrection of Christ, or they would not be standing on the right hand of Christ with immortal and incorruptible bodies.

Matthew 25:31-34 (KJV) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Isn't the first resurrection recorded in 1 Thessalonians 4?
 

rwb

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Isn't the first resurrection recorded in 1 Thessalonians 4?

No. This is depicting the bodily resurrection of the saints; it is not the first resurrection because the first resurrection is the resurrection of Christ that man must have part of in life. If we have part in the first resurrection during this time symbolized a thousand years, then we are no longer of "the dead". Therefore, when Christ comes again our bodies will be resurrected and changed from mortal to immortal and corruption to incorruptible. As John shows us in Rev 20 the saints, even though physically dead are alive, believers will not be of "the dead" and bodily resurrected to stand before God in the GWTJ if we have physically died in Christ.

When those of faith physically die, we are not among "the dead" but we are called "the dead IN CHRIST". Those martyred souls John sees in heaven that had already lived and reigned with Christ in time, symbolized a thousand years are NOT DEAD! They are alive IN CHRIST after death as living (spirit) souls in heaven because they physically died being IN CHRIST. Having been faithful unto death, after their body breathed its last went as spiritual body to be with the Lord in heaven to wait for time, symbolized a thousand years to be finished. When Christ comes again, He will bring with Him those spiritually alive in heaven to be re-united with new immortal and incorruptible bodies of flesh to live with Him on the new earth forever. Unlike "THE DEAD" who will be bodily resurrected for condemnation. We must believe Christ when He says He is the resurrection and life and all who live and believe in Him still lives and will NEVER die.

John 5:29 (KJV) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 11:25 (WEB) Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will still live, even if he dies.

1 Corinthians 15:20 (WEB) But now Christ has been raised from the dead. He became the first fruits of those who are asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:35 (WEB)
But someone will say, "How are the dead raised?" and, "With what kind of body do they come?"

1 Corinthians 15:44 (WEB) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is also a spiritual body.

Revelation 2:10 (KJV) Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (WEB) But we don't want you to be ignorant, brothers, concerning those who have fallen asleep, so that you don't grieve like the rest, who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so those who have fallen asleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we tell you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God's trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first, then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

All of mankind must bodily stand before God in judgment but only "the dead" are judged out of the things written in the books. The dead will not be found recorded in the book of life so they will be cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:11-15 (WEB) I saw a great white throne, and him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. There was found no place for them. I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and they opened books. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works. Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

Matthew 25:31-33 (WEB) "But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

When Christ returns the second time after this age symbolized a thousand years is over then all of humanity will be bodily resurrected to stand before God. The righteous who died in Christ as sheep, already changed from mortal to immortal body on Christ's right, and the unrighteous dead will be on Christ's left to be judged from what is found recorded in the books for what they have done in life, and since they are not found written in the book of life they will have part in the second death, that is the lake of fire.
 

CadyandZoe

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No. This is depicting the bodily resurrection of the saints; it is not the first resurrection because the first resurrection is the resurrection of Christ that man must have part of in life. If we have part in the first resurrection during this time symbolized a thousand years, then we are no longer of "the dead". Therefore, when Christ comes again our bodies will be resurrected and changed from mortal to immortal and corruption to incorruptible. As John shows us in Rev 20 the saints, even though physically dead are alive, believers will not be of "the dead" and bodily resurrected to stand before God in the GWTJ if we have physically died in Christ.

When those of faith physically die, we are not among "the dead" but we are called "the dead IN CHRIST". Those martyred souls John sees in heaven that had already lived and reigned with Christ in time, symbolized a thousand years are NOT DEAD! They are alive IN CHRIST after death as living (spirit) souls in heaven because they physically died being IN CHRIST. Having been faithful unto death, after their body breathed its last went as spiritual body to be with the Lord in heaven to wait for time, symbolized a thousand years to be finished. When Christ comes again, He will bring with Him those spiritually alive in heaven to be re-united with new immortal and incorruptible bodies of flesh to live with Him on the new earth forever. Unlike "THE DEAD" who will be bodily resurrected for condemnation. We must believe Christ when He says He is the resurrection and life and all who live and believe in Him still lives and will NEVER die.

John 5:29 (KJV) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 11:25 (WEB) Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will still live, even if he dies.

1 Corinthians 15:20 (WEB) But now Christ has been raised from the dead. He became the first fruits of those who are asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:35 (WEB)
But someone will say, "How are the dead raised?" and, "With what kind of body do they come?"

1 Corinthians 15:44 (WEB) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is also a spiritual body.

Revelation 2:10 (KJV) Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (WEB) But we don't want you to be ignorant, brothers, concerning those who have fallen asleep, so that you don't grieve like the rest, who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so those who have fallen asleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we tell you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God's trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first, then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

All of mankind must bodily stand before God in judgment but only "the dead" are judged out of the things written in the books. The dead will not be found recorded in the book of life so they will be cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:11-15 (WEB) I saw a great white throne, and him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. There was found no place for them. I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and they opened books. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works. Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

Matthew 25:31-33 (WEB) "But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

When Christ returns the second time after this age symbolized a thousand years is over then all of humanity will be bodily resurrected to stand before God. The righteous who died in Christ as sheep, already changed from mortal to immortal body on Christ's right, and the unrighteous dead will be on Christ's left to be judged from what is found recorded in the books for what they have done in life, and since they are not found written in the book of life they will have part in the second death, that is the lake of fire.
What does "beheaded" symbolize?
 

Truth7t7

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Michael the archangel, the very same messenger who comes at the end of time and raises the dead to life. Here is depicted Michael raising Moses, but being opposed by the devil who was claiming Moses as a sinner and worthy only of hell and destruction. But the devil didn't take into account God's mercy and grace. Nor His power.
False Teachings From 7th Day Adventist Ellen G. White The (False Prophetess)
 
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