Paul claimed 3 times that Revelation 20:4 was a current reality.

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rwb

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Doesn't Paul argue that we will be resurrected and move from corruptibility to incorruptibility? 1 Corinthians 15 Then how to you say that Eternal life is not physical?

The physical body is not eternal. How could it be since our body is destined to die? It is only our spirit that is promised eternal life through His Spirit in us. Without the Spirit of Christ in us we would be no different than unbelievers who die and return to the dust while their spirit or breath of life returns to God without the life giving Spirit in them. Unbelievers know only darkness and death until they and all humanity is called from bodily death, resurrected to life or resurrected to condemnation. The physical body of those of faith is changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible to be re-united with our living spirit that returns with Christ when He comes again the last day.

The spirit in men/women of faith is eternal, (not immortal) and because we are spiritually alive in heaven when Christ returns with our spirit our physical body will become immortal and being incorruptible never again destined to die. Eternal spirit = immortal physical life through Christ.
 

WPM

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Doesn't Paul argue that we will be resurrected and move from corruptibility to incorruptibility? 1 Corinthians 15 Then how to you say that Eternal life is not physical?

We have already entered into "eternal life" upon salvation. Our spirits are redeemed. Physical redemption will not come until the climatic return of Christ. We will get new eternal bodies then. Jesus said of this new covenant blessing John 17:3: "this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

In salvation we take a hold of Christ, His new covenant, His cross, His precious blood. We see in Him our only hope. We see in Him our substitute and representative before God. We see Him as our constant and ongoing sin-bearer and mediator. We see in Him our liberator and deliverer.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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Revelation 20:4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is one of the most controversial verses in the entire bible and a lot of Christians believe that it has to be a future event because they believe that it's on the resurrection day. But according to Paul he stated three times that it was a current reality back in his day.

Here below are the three texts.

Ephesians
2:4-6
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

In the verses above Paul states that we were already made alive, raised up and seated with Christ in the heavenly realms.

Colossians 3:1
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Once again Paul states that we have already been raised up with Christ.

Romans 5:17
17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Finally in the verse above Paul states that we reign in life through Jesus.

All of these verses were a current reality while alive in the physical body almost two thousand years ago. If it was a reality back, then it is still a reality today.

Paul ties three events directly to Revelation 20:4 "that we have been made alive", "seated with Christ in the heavenly realms" and that "we reign (in life) through Jesus".

Why do so many Christians not accept this even though Paul declares it? Because they are focused on it being physical not spiritual. They focus on the physical because it mentions saints that were beheaded by the beast and the thousand years.

But let's let scripture interpret scripture. Paul teaches that its spiritual and what John is saying in Revelation 20:4 is that even though the saints are beheaded they still live and reign spiritually the soul doesn't die with the body. It's a promise even though you may die for Jesus you will still live and reign spiritually. The beast can kill the body but not the soul.

Thus, according to Paul we reign in life now and have been for almost two thousand years we are not limited to a literal thousand years God has a better longer plan.

This does not take away a future physical resurrection at the end of our world.
So you believe the mark of the beast has long ago established on earth! So what is the mark and show fromm history those who refused the beast nor wear his physical mark(charagma)
 

Ronald Nolette

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We have already entered into "eternal life" upon salvation. Our spirits are redeemed. Physical redemption will not come until the climatic return of Christ. We will get new eternal bodies then. Jesus said of this new covenant blessing John 17:3: "this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

In salvation we take a hold of Christ, His new covenant, His cross, His precious blood. We see in Him our only hope. We see in Him our substitute and representative before God. We see Him as our constant and ongoing sin-bearer and mediator. We see in Him our liberator and deliverer.
Can I ask you specifically what new covenant you are referring to ?
 
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ScottA

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Revelation 20:4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is one of the most controversial verses in the entire bible and a lot of Christians believe that it has to be a future event because they believe that it's on the resurrection day. But according to Paul he stated three times that it was a current reality back in his day.

Here below are the three texts.

Ephesians
2:4-6
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

In the verses above Paul states that we were already made alive, raised up and seated with Christ in the heavenly realms.

Colossians 3:1
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Once again Paul states that we have already been raised up with Christ.

Romans 5:17
17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Finally in the verse above Paul states that we reign in life through Jesus.

All of these verses were a current reality while alive in the physical body almost two thousand years ago. If it was a reality back, then it is still a reality today.

Paul ties three events directly to Revelation 20:4 "that we have been made alive", "seated with Christ in the heavenly realms" and that "we reign (in life) through Jesus".

Why do so many Christians not accept this even though Paul declares it? Because they are focused on it being physical not spiritual. They focus on the physical because it mentions saints that were beheaded by the beast and the thousand years.

But let's let scripture interpret scripture. Paul teaches that its spiritual and what John is saying in Revelation 20:4 is that even though the saints are beheaded they still live and reign spiritually the soul doesn't die with the body. It's a promise even though you may die for Jesus you will still live and reign spiritually. The beast can kill the body but not the soul.

Thus, according to Paul we reign in life now and have been for almost two thousand years we are not limited to a literal thousand years God has a better longer plan.

This does not take away a future physical resurrection at the end of our world.
Marty,

Two points:

1) The "beheading" that Revelation 20:4 refers to is the result of Christ (the Head) being "cut off", physically foreshadowed by John the Baptist. Which is a reference to Daniel's 70 week prophecy, and the error of many who misunderstand that Daniel did not prophecy only future things, but all things--all things regarding Gods people...from the beginning to the end, just as he was told. In which case, the "week" of the sacrifice ending is the time of Messiah being "cut off"--which is to say, "week" meaning "time", is not a future time, but all time, in which Christ is "cut off" in the "middle" of "time" (rather than a future week). Which, of course, has already occurred.​
2) The resurrection then...also occurs in Him who "was" crucified--future tense for those before the cross, and past tense for those after the cross...just as Paul said, "were crucified" with Christ.​
 

CadyandZoe

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We have already entered into "eternal life" upon salvation. Our spirits are redeemed. Physical redemption will not come until the climatic return of Christ. We will get new eternal bodies then. Jesus said of this new covenant blessing John 17:3: "this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

In salvation we take a hold of Christ, His new covenant, His cross, His precious blood. We see in Him our only hope. We see in Him our substitute and representative before God. We see Him as our constant and ongoing sin-bearer and mediator. We see in Him our liberator and deliverer.
How does this answer the objection? Does eternal life involve physicality or not?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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So you believe the mark of the beast has long ago established on earth! So what is the mark and show fromm history those who refused the beast nor wear his physical mark(charagma)
The mark of the beast is not any more physical than the seal of God. Do you think the seal of God is physical, too?

Would you agree that all who worship the beast take the mark of the beast? Well, it says that all whose names are not written in the book of life worship the beast (Rev 13:8). That implies that all unbelievers worship the beast and have the mark of the beast. How could every single unbeliever get a physical mark? That isn't reasonable.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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How does this answer the objection? Does eternal life involve physicality or not?
Clearly our physical bodies are not eternal because we all die. Our bodies will be changed one day and then they will be eternal, but our souls and spirits are truly eternal and never die.

It looks like we can add soul sleep to the long list of false doctrines that you believe in? I wonder how sleeping people can talk to the Lord in heaven? That's quite a trick.

Revelation 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.
 
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Brakelite

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While I find much agreement in your biblical understanding of the physical body of all life on earth, you seem to have no understanding of the spirit or breath of life that every living creature upon this earth must have to be a complete soul. God took the clay (dust of the earth) and formed outer man (physical body), then He breathed His breath of life (spirit) into man and man then (possessing both body & spirit) became a living soul. Then God placed man (male & female) in the garden and commanded them not to eat of the forbidden tree, and if they did not obey Him they would die. We all know the story about how sin and death through sin entered into God's creation at that point.

Since God promised death if man disobeyed Him, why didn't humanity die as God promised they would?
Death, as a process, entered mankind immediately, but the moment death entered, so also did grace, mercy, and an opportunity for repentance... Hence the first sacrifice that clothed both Adam and Eve, not just with physical skins to cover their bodies, but the righteousness of Christ. In those days, the first generation of creation, man was endowed with great strength and vitality and health. It took 900 years for Adam to die. But die he did. And there is no suggestion in scripture, except from Satan, that any part of Adam would not die. You are correct in your order of creation. Body/dust
plus
spirit/ breath=
living soul/person.
The reverse is also true.
Body/dust
Minus
spirit/breath=
dead soul/person.

"In that day his thoughts perish". If, as some believe, the spirit that returns to God (Eccl.12:7) is a living entity capable of expression and thought, where is such a concept revealed in scripture? Does such an idea presuppose that the spirit was a living entity before being injected into the human body as some also believe? And will do so again after death if this current life is in summer way deficient? This all leads into all manner of false and pagan systems which ultimately lead into the idea that man is essentially immortal... Totally contradictory to all scripture.
Best to not make such presumptions right from the kick off, and simply accept scripture as it reads... The breath returns to God. At the resurrection, the Christian hope, breath and body are reunited. Certainly not the original body, but a glorified body that nevertheless is in essence the same as the former... Recognizable and in appearance the same.
 

Marty fox

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So you believe the mark of the beast has long ago established on earth! So what is the mark and show fromm history those who refused the beast nor wear his physical mark(charagma)
I believe that The mark of the beast was (the head) a devotion to Cesar and (the hand) doing his will. The saints who didn’t were persecuted for 3 1/2 years from Nero. Peter and Paul we’re also martyred under Nero

It can’t be a physical mark because that would violate the promise of salvation to all who believe.
 
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Timtofly

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No they physically died because they had partaken of the resurrection of Christ, Who is the "first resurrection". Why do you keep denying that one must partake of the resurrection of Christ to have eternal life? John sees beheaded LIVING; i.e spiritual life, souls in heaven after they had physically died on earth, because in life (a thousand symbolic years) they had partaken in the resurrection life of Christ. To partake of the "first resurrection" is to be born again of His Spirit. "Ye must be born again", in Christ, Who says,

John 11:25-26 (KJV) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
I am not denying what the first resurrection is. You are. You claim the first resurrection is the second birth.

Then you claim these people physically dying is the first resurrection. Everything but a resurrection. A birth is a birth, not a resurrection. A death is a death, not a resurrection. Do you not see how words are used to give a specific meaning? You are changing the term resurrection to make it say what you want it to, to prove your Amil bias. All you are doing is totally avoiding what the first resurrection is.

The first resurrection happens when a physical body physically dies and is given a new physical body. Old body from Adam. New body from God. Old body from the dust of the ground, returning to dust. New body from God, permanent, never dying again, ever, period!

The first resurrection is not a spiritual birth into God's family. That happens when one is still in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The first resurrection is definitely not the point nor definition of the first death. In fact Lazarus waited 4 days in Abraham's bosom between the first death, and the first resurrection. Noah waited thousands of years between the first death and the first resurrection.

Jesus said that soon, those hearing His words would never taste death again. At the Cross was the point death is no longer a waiting period. Tasting death is waiting in Abraham's bosom. Tasting death was walking through the valley of the shadow of death. Those redeemed in the OT, had to physically leave Adam's dead corruptible flesh, and their soul waited in Abraham's bosom.

The first resurrection gave them back God's permanent incorruptible physical body. That is a first resurrection.

John saw (will see soon) those souls, because they had to wait as souls from the time they physically died, until they were judged after Armageddon. Was (will) Abraham's bosom be used during those 42 months, who knows? What we do know is they did not go to heaven or Paradise, or John would have stated such.

I get that you want these people to represent some phenomenon over the last 1992 years, because you claim Revelation 20 is about the last 1992 years. But all these points are just human imagination, and don't fit what John is saying at all. Your imagined scenario directly contradicts 2 Corinthians 5:1. These souls without a body is contrary to the fact the church no longer tastes death. These souls are literally in a state of death having no body, until they stand before these thrones and judged. The church was judged at the Cross, and will not stand as dead waiting for a body in the future.

As pointed out you have to change resurrection to either birth or even death as you claim to get your imagined scenario to even work.

The moment these souls are given the first resurrection, they have permanent incorruptible physical bodies. They will live on earth like all others before them who were resurrected on earth.

Yes for the last 1992 years all the redeemed have experienced the first resurrection immediately. The soul leaves Adam's dead corruptible flesh, and without any time passing enters God's permanent incorruptible physical body. That is the ongoing phenomenon called the first resurrection. It does directly coincide with the first death. Yet you will immediately reject and deny this truth from Paul in 2 Corinthians 5:1, because Paul does not adhere to your imagined phenomenon. The one you built around the point Revelation 20 surely is not talking about a future 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth. This imagined phenomenon where you only have one future general resurrection for every single human ever to live, even if they already were resurrected and physically enjoying Paradise for 1992 years.

Jesus currently has and has had a physical body in Paradise for 1992 years. So has every other soul in Paradise. Jesus is the resurrection and the life. Jesus is not the let's wait until the Second Coming for a resurrection and life. Jesus called Lazarus out of his grave. It was not a soul without a body waiting for the Second Coming. Lazarus was the primary example of the Resurrection and the Life. And it struck fear in the hearts of those who saw it, and the desire to crucify Jesus was planted that day. It was not a resurrection back to death. It was a permanent incorruptible physical body.

You can read here: John 11:45-53

45 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.

46 But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done.

47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.

48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,

50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

You can believe Lazarus just died again. But there is literally no reason to accept that. To deny that is to deny that Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life.

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

This was the very context Jesus made that claim in. If you deny Lazarus was the very example of the first resurrection to life, then you may as well cancel your future single resurrection as well. And first does not mean primary or first of that kind, or even first in a series of resurrections. That is not the point of the first resurrection. First means physical out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Lazarus was not resurrected into Adam's dead corruptible flesh. That would mean Jesus failed at being the resurrection and the life. You are missing the whole point of the exchange with Mary:

22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Jesus called Lazarus out as proof Lazarus would never die again.

Amil give the same excuse as Mary did:

"I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

Jesus did not agree with that assessment.

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die."

Yet you claim Lazarus just died again. Jesus told Mary, Lazarus would live and never die again, no? If Lazarus was the embodiment of Jesus' exact words, then he experienced what all will experience, from the Cross on. Now God did not force Lazarus to live on this sin cursed earth until the Second Coming. He would have ascended with all the OT redeemed on Sunday morning when Jesus ascended with the firstfruits of His accomplishment over death and the grave. The first order in Paul's order of those being free from the death caused by Adam.

The last day resurrection promised throughout the OT that Mary was pointing to was not the Second Coming. Now you want to be a futurist on this point, instead of pointing to the Cross. You point to the Cross for those in Revelation 20:4, who have not even died yet, and what Mary stated, you point to the Second Coming. That is backwards.

Mary was talking about the Cross, because that was the last day of the OT. The veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom, and all the OT came out of their graves, many even in Jerusalem. The hour that Jesus promised came with Lazarus and has been an ongoing phenomenon that will end at the GWT. Although at that point creation will be handed back to God, and no more graves to call people out of. The dead are not called out of their graves. Death and sheol are literally dumped out like one would dump out trash into a garbage dump. Jesus hands Death and sheol over to God along with the rest of creation, and that reality will cease to exist. Death and sheol ending up in the LOF.
 

Timtofly

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I believe that The mark of the beast was (the head) a devotion to Cesar and (the hand) doing his will. The saints who didn’t were persecuted for 3 1/2 years from Nero. Peter and Paul we’re also martyred under Nero

It can’t be a physical mark because that would violate the promise of salvation to all who believe.
Since this mark only comes around after the 7th Trumpet starts to sound declaring time over for Adam's dead corruptible flesh, it is physical. As God stamps this expiration date of ultimate death on every human at the same time their names are removed from the Lamb's book of life.

Once a person is removed from the Lamb's book of life, God is no longer bound to redeem that person. They had to at the point of no return make a conscious decision to be removed.

Notice that Satan prohibited participating in his government and economy until they receive the mark. Satan is not handing out the mark, nor forcing it on anybody. I think people will face God directly while looking at the GWT and asked to be removed from the Lamb's book of life, and thus God stamps the expiration date of Adam's punishment as a physical reminder to whom they now belong to, Satan the father of all disobedience. What is wrong with the 144k walking around with God's seal on them?

At this point, all can see the face of the one sitting on the GWT: Revelation 6:14-16.

"And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne."

When heaven is rolled back as in dissolved in 2 Peter 3, spiritual blindness will be gone as well. These humans are dead and dying anyway, looking on God's face at that time will not matter, like it has over the last, almost 6,000 years.

Still not sure why some cannot grasp the sudden and unexpected change that is soon to happen to this earth. Trying to force Revelation into the first century is about as wise as burying one's head in the sand.

People expect this man of sin to be revealed is like introducing the next presidential candidate. Satan is about to be free to come out of hiding. Do you think he had a lot of attention and grandstanding in the first century? Satan appeared to Jesus in the wilderness, so he was out stretching his legs then. But do you really think he was playing the part of the dragon then, which would just prove to them, that if he existed then God and Jesus would be legitimized and faith would be meaningless.

God cannot in good faith remove names from the Lamb's book of life until Jesus removes all the seals. The opening of the 7th Seal will allow names to be removed. That is why the Second Coming at the 6th Seal happens and the 144k are sealed by God. Salvation is no longer by faith. John points this fact out that when the 6th Seal is opened, all on earth will see God sitting on that GWT. They will see Jesus come to earth as the Lamb of God, the Messiah about to sit on His throne as King. All that these people can think about is, "O boy, we are in trouble, the wrath of the Lord is about to fall" The removal of the firmament revealing that Satan's 14 billion year old universe is just a virtual mind game. The sudden appearance of God on the GWT, and the Lamb will certainly bring Satan out of the shadows.

Yet many here present arguments that Revelation already happened and there is really nothing ahead that will change, any time soon. Others claim it will be over so quickly, that if any one blinked, they will not even experience anything that happened.
 

rwb

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Death, as a process, entered mankind immediately, but the moment death entered, so also did grace, mercy, and an opportunity for repentance... Hence the first sacrifice that clothed both Adam and Eve, not just with physical skins to cover their bodies, but the righteousness of Christ. In those days, the first generation of creation, man was endowed with great strength and vitality and health. It took 900 years for Adam to die. But die he did. And there is no suggestion in scripture, except from Satan, that any part of Adam would not die. You are correct in your order of creation.

But mankind did die that very day as God said they would, because they no longer had the ability to spiritually commune with God after they disobeyed Him. The deception from the serpent was not that they would not die. The deception was not telling them how they would die that very day. The spirit breath God breathed into them, giving them eternal life was lost from them. Mankind, now endowed with knowledge of good and evil became a natural spirit because the supernatural spiritual life they possessed was taken from them. This is why a man/woman must be born again of the Spirit to have eternal life through Christ.

If man in the beginning at creation had obeyed God they could have lived forever, but rather than obey God they listened to the serpent, and spiritually died. Listening to the voice of the serpent the woman and with her the man desired to be as gods, desiring to be wise they freely chose to disobey God and ate from the forbidden tree. Then realizing they were naked, they hid from God, and attempted to sew together fig leaves to hide their nakedness. Instead of staying near to the God that had given them life, they feared Him, choosing instead to follow the serpent (Satan).

Every human being born from the first humans are now endowed with natural spirit (life) and a physical body destined to die. If left in this condition of spiritual death, every human will physically die, and the spirit (life) given them will return to God without the Spirit in them. Without the Spirit in them there is no life.

But every human who has been born again of the Spirit from above, in Christ, once again possesses eternal life through the Spirit in them. Whoever desires to understand or enter the Kingdom of God MUST be born again of the Spirit, and without the Spirit of Christ mankind can neither understand nor enter the Kingdom of God. Man doesn't physically enter the Kingdom of God, because His Kingdom is not of this world, and cannot be physically seen, because His Kingdom is within those who believe. Once we enter into His spiritual Kingdom we can never be cast out and we will never again spiritually die.

It is through His Spirit in mankind that Christ may say "whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die." Our physical body, being destined to die will grow old, or be killed, but the Spirit in us will never die. So as Paul shows us, when our body breathes its last, we, as living (spirit) soul return to Christ alive through His Spirit. We will be in heaven with Christ until the last day when Christ comes again and our body too will be made immortal and incorruptible to be re-united with our eternal spirit that Christ brings with Him when He comes again.

1 Corinthians 15:20 (KJV) But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Corinthians 15:22 (KJV) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1 Corinthians 15:35 (KJV) But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1 Corinthians 15:37-38 (KJV) And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:46-50 (KJV) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
 
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rwb

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I am not denying what the first resurrection is. You are. You claim the first resurrection is the second birth.

Do you really read what others write, or do you just ignore what is said and hoist falsehood on what others have said?

I've never said the first resurrection is the second birth. I've repeatedly said the first resurrection is the resurrection of Christ that mankind must have part in to overcome the second death. That is not a second birth, because the one partaking of the first resurrection of Christ is already physically alive. Do you like Nicodemus think that man must enter again into his mother's womb? That's why Christ explains to Nicodemus that mankind must be born again, not a second birth, but birth from above, birth through the Spirit. It's not a second birth it is a NEW birth. New, because before we are born of the Spirit of Christ we have not eternal life that comes through Him.
Then you claim these people physically dying is the first resurrection.

Once more you misrepresent what I believe and have stated. I've never said physical death is the first resurrection. Again, I maintain the first resurrection IS the resurrection of Christ that mankind while living on this earth MUST have part in to overcome the second death. Those martyred souls John sees alive in heaven are there because in life before they were killed, they had part in the first resurrection of Christ, so they have overcome the second death and will be in heaven with Christ until this time, John symbolizes a thousand years, shall be finished.
The first resurrection happens when a physical body physically dies and is given a new physical body. Old body from Adam. New body from God. Old body from the dust of the ground, returning to dust. New body from God, permanent, never dying again, ever, period!

You've proven you have no understanding of WHO the first resurrection is! It is NOT a physical resurrection as you imagine. It is to be born from above, born of the Spirit. It is only by being found in Christ that man overcomes the second death. You have no understanding of what Christ means when He says, "I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE"!
 

Ronald Nolette

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The mark of the beast is not any more physical than the seal of God. Do you think the seal of God is physical, too?

Would you agree that all who worship the beast take the mark of the beast? Well, it says that all whose names are not written in the book of life worship the beast (Rev 13:8). That implies that all unbelievers worship the beast and have the mark of the beast. How could every single unbeliever get a physical mark? That isn't reasonable.

Well if you studied you would find it very reasonable. Teh seal of the 144,000 is sphragis, while the mark of the beast is charagma- which is a physical mark.

The act of worship is not taking any mark. Taking an imprint as it is written is taking a mark. You can redefine worship as you please to imply it means taking a mark.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Yeah, I wonder which other new covenant(s) he had in mind? :rolleyes:

Well there is only one new covenant spoken of in Scripture, it is found in Jer. 31.

Teh last supper did not make a covenant. The blood Jesus shed was the price paid to enable the covenant.

Otherwise we have 2 new covenants.