Psychics and Mediums?

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1stCenturyLady

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Let me make sure I am asking these questions correctly.

I see the fruit of the spirit at operation in my life. Haven't cast out any demons. Haven't prophesized in over a year. I have done good works. Can this be so if I were not completely abiding?

What scriptures would show I am partially abiding but not completely abiding?

What scriptures would show I am completely abiding?

I think that I can figure out which ones show I am not abiding at all. But if you wan to share them too then I would be grateful.

Will I still go to Hell if I am abiding, but in error in my beliefs on OSAS?

Thanks.

I see one test to see if you are abiding in Jesus and doing His will, and that is in 1 John 3.

21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

So, does your heart condemn you?
Are your prayers answered?
Are you loving others instinctively showing that the seed of the Father is in you? 1 John 3:9

In some people, OSAS has been used as a license to sin, and doesn't take into consideration the vast amount of warnings to endure to the end. But we can have confidence IF you keep His commandments as above and pass His test for the rest of your life. Note that the scriptures OSASers use about no one can snatch them out of His hand, when doing a synoptic gospel comparison shows it is actually referring to not losing any of the 12 disciples, EXCEPT Judas. Even there, there was one lost. As for the "elect," Israel was called God's elect, but we know not all Jews were saved. There is always a condition to any of God's promises. God will not be mocked. There are no loop-holes. But if we meet His conditions, Satan cannot snatch any actually belonging to Christ out of His hand. Jesus is stronger than Satan.
 

1stCenturyLady

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We had only the OT. Tongues and prophecy were the only revelations available that when written and circulated became the NT scriptures. Of course all of the NT writers were prophets. So what we have in the NT scriptures is the pure tincture of the first century word of God. And the Spirit gives life to them he always did.

Then where is all the scriptures from everyone not an apostle that spoke in tongues and prophesied? The Bible is not "complete.," so is not the "perfect." Even with all that was written, we still see through a dark glass, but then we shall see Him face to face. That is literal, not symbolic as you rationalize.
 

1stCenturyLady

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In the first century, those speaking in tongues understood what they were saying. Today's imitators do not.

ROFL

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

1 Corinthians 14:13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.
 
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Dave L

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ROFL

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

1 Corinthians 14:13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.
This only proves my point. Those who spoke in tongues edified themselves unless they interpreted for others. The basis for edification was understanding what was said.
 
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Dave L

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Then where is all the scriptures from everyone not an apostle that spoke in tongues and prophesied? The Bible is not "complete.," so is not the "perfect." Even with all that was written, we still see through a dark glass, but then we shall see Him face to face. That is literal, not symbolic as you rationalize.
If you do not think the bible is perfect....see ya...
 

1stCenturyLady

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This only proves my point. Those who spoke in tongues edified themselves unless they interpreted for others. The basis for edification was understanding what was said.

You completely misread what was written. They don't understand in their mind, but only in their spirit which is what is edified. By praying in tongues we build up our spirit.

It is not one gift, but two.
 
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Dave L

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You completely misread what was written. They don't understand in their mind, but only in their spirit which is what is edified. By praying in tongues we build up our spirit.

It is not one gift, but two.
They understood the language and because of this were edified. Understanding what is said = edification.
 

1stCenturyLady

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They understood the language and because of this were edified. Understanding what is said = edification.

The only way you understand supernatural tongues is through the supernatural gift of interpretation of tongues. Without the gift of interpretation of tongues, the tongue is not understood by the speaker nor the hearer, and only the speaker's spirit is edified, but his mind is unfruitful.
 
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Dave L

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The only way you understand supernatural tongues is through the supernatural gift of interpretation of tongues. Without the gift of interpretation of tongues, the tongue is not understood by the speaker nor the hearer.
Interpretation shared the meaning of the message with others.
 
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Prayer Warrior

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If we stick to the word, we hear God's voice and follow it. Beyond that it is up for grabs what you are listening to. Most likely your imagination.
The New Covenant became complete with the Revelation of St. John. This is where all the fragments of prophecy and interpreted tongues messages came together. They became the completed scriptures.

Why do you try to STEAL the blessing and privilege of hearing the voice of the Lord from those of us who enjoy it??? What is it to YOU if some of us BELIEVE what Jesus said--that His sheep hear and know His wonderful voice? The devil came to steal, and you are doing his work!

Edit: I've just been down this road of debating cessationism on another forum. Many years ago I came to see Cessationism as the doctrine of demons--robbing the church of precious gifts given and sustained by the Holy Spirit! We need all of the gifts more than ever!
 
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Prayer Warrior

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You're generally fairly solid on your futurist interpretations of end-time prophecy, so I'm surprised you would not want to retain the words "before" and "after" in making more exacting determinations on the order of end-times events.

But let me break down your #1-7 and tell you where I think you are missing it. For starters (as you also stated), this book is set prior to the invasion of Israel by the Assyrians. This is clear from the prediction that an invading nation would divide the land, and only Israel was taken into captivity where as Judah was left. This is when the division between Israel and Judah began. It also evident from the fact that this invading nation comes from the North (Joel 2:20), which was the direction the Assyrian armies came from.

That having been said:


The Day of the Lord is always depicted as a judgment on the unbelieving nations. Always. It is never discussed in reference to a judgment upon Israel, but rather in defense of Israel and as a judgment against her enemies (Joel 2:17). The plagues in Chapter 1, however, are the effects of having been conquered by the Assyrians. As you can see, this invading nation is what will make the land a waste (Joel 1:7). So the Day of the Lord upon the nations and the plagues He was predicting would come upon the land of Israel are two different things, and the Lord was imploring His people to cry to Him for the Day of vengeance to come upon their enemies.


Correct (essentially).


Correct.


Here is where you make your big boo boo. I know you are trying to say there is no chronological order, but there actually is here. This whole passage is set before Joel 2:28, which means Peter believed v.18-27 had already been fulfilled in some sense, and likely that the passage referred to the angels of God driving the Assyrians back supernaturally. (Note: Peter apparently also believed that these events preceded the Day of the Lord since it hadn't come yet, and was therefore not contingent with them). Then comes V.28, which starts with "And it will come about after this...," i.e. after God's army comes to deliver them from enemy oppression.

I still have a hard time believing you devalue the words "before" and "after" as not having meaning. They are signposts telling us the order of events. I do agree with you, however, that the passages have more than one fulfillment. The greater fulfillment of 2:28 is set to happen in the future, as verses like 2:31 have not yet occurred in any sense. And regarding the end-times, the passage on the army of God in Chapter 2 is actually in reference to an army of believers that will be anointed by God during the end-times to perform signs, miracles and wonders, and deliver His church during a time of incredible spiritual oppression. But you don't have to believe that if you wish. What is certain is that this outpouring (in it's fullest sense) is set to occur in a time that precedes the sun being turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, which will both precede the Day of the Lord.


Correct.


Correct.


Almost. I believe it does indeed have a double application, but that the second outpouring will come upon the church, not Israel. But again, this goes back to my believing in the chronologies implied in other prophetic texts, like Matthew 24.

Thank you for this! It is SO good!
 
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Prayer Warrior

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Scares me too. I see from other posts that you have some Charismatic background. I started into genuine faith that way. Most that I experienced in my early faith years also seemed to have a good deal of WoF mixed in. What a mess! I witnessed a lot of strange and confusing spectacles. While I do not discount all that I witnessed or have experienced, I will say there is an overemphasis on the gifts in most of those communities. I got out too and eventually became a Berean.

I had noted you said "true prophecy" in your post that I originally replied to. And prophecy mentioned here is only one of three works cited. No doubt unregenerate people have trusted in "many good works" for all the centuries since the first century to save them. I still can't completely discount the casting out of demons either. Unless those first two categories were only early century people who were crying "Lord, Lord"? And the rest were works based over the next 18 centuries or so. Christ does not draw a clear distinction here.
Some of us have been Bereans all along and have not rejected any of the gifts! I understand what you're saying, esp. about abuses of the gifts. That does exist, but I think it's a mistake to throw out the baby with the bath water. I've chosen to keep the "baby."
 
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Stranger

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“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.” (1 Peter 1:23) (KJV 1900)

What is this supposed to prove? Nothing concerning what we are talking about.

You challenged me to show you another way God gives the gifts of the Holy Spirit beyond the two outpourings of the Holy Spirit. I did in post #(80). Yet you have nothing to disprove it. Oh you make comments but they do nothing to disprove what I gave you in post #(80). So, disprove what post #(80) gives.

You are big on the written Word of God. As I am also. Yet you make comments and give no Scriptural support. Why? Because your comments are weak. And you're afraid what you base them on will be found out to be false. Which so far they are.

Stranger
 
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Stranger

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I thought that I had found a way to bridge the gap between you guys and Dave so there would be less vitriol. It was a flailing unsuccessful attempt.

Yes denomination.

I am unable to be more clear at this time, I am extremely burned out. I tried to contribute.

Blessings

I doubt anyone could bridge such a gap.

Sorry to hear you are burned out. Hang in there. Continue to contribute. Perhaps we will both learn something.

Stranger
 
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Stranger

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That. I cannot be any clearer than that. Not at this time. I'm exhausted. I found my breaking point. Which I needed to find. Please disregard my posts on these matters.

I agree with you that Cessation of the gifts is not true. But that means you must accept that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are present in the Church today as they were back then.

Again, hang in there. We all have lots to learn.

Stranger
 

Stranger

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Yes, when I breakdown I do this.

It is when I see myself doing this that I know I have returned to a certain state in my condition.

Are you a born-again Christian? Do you belong to a local Church that prays for you?

Stranger