Rapture is not in the Bible

[n2thelight]

Rapture is not in the Bible... But caught up is!
And caught up is not to return!

We will be caught up with Christ in the air...
We will return with Christ after tribulation to reign with him 1,000 years.

If we are not raptured away pre-trib... How are we going to return with Christ to reign with him 1,000 years???

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. - Revelation 19

I Thessalonians 4:13-18

The subject is where are the dead.

V13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

asleep in Greek means to decease, to be dead. This is talking about people that are already dead not people that are living on earth now. The second our flesh body dies our soul goes back to God.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
V7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

We can take comfort knowing that our loved ones who have passed on are with God our Father and not lying in a hole in the ground. The flesh body stays in the ground but our soul goes back to God. The people that have no hope are those that do not believe in Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son of God.

V14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

This is talking about people that have passed on that believed in Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

V15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Prevent means to precede before hand, to have arrived at already. We are still talking about where the dead are the subject has not changed. This verse tells us that people that have died are already with Jesus. The people alive when Jesus returns will not be with Jesus before the people that have already passed away because they are already there.

V16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

This tells us when Jesus will return and not before. This is not the rapture. The rapture is a lie and can not be found in God's word. This is talking about the second coming of Jesus at the end of the tribulation. Jesus will come at the seventh trump and not before the seventh trump for anyone. Those that have died already rise first because they are already with Jesus. The second we die we go back to God our Father.

V17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This happens after the tribulation when Jesus returns as Lord of lords and King of kings. This is not talking about a rapture, their is no rapture. Clouds is symbolic for a mass of people.

Hebrews 12:1
V1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

When Jesus returns at the seventh trump the people alive on earth at that time will be changed into their spiritual bodies in the twinkling of an eye.

I Corinthians 15:52-53
V52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
V53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The rapture is a lie from Satan trying to trick God's children into believing in a easy way out. Always remember as long as we are still in our flesh bodies the true Christ has not returned yet. Satan will come back to this earth with supernatural powers saying he is Christ here to rapture you away but it is a lie.

 

[Stranger]

n2thelight

Why do you believe (1Thess. 4:13-18) speaks to the Second Coming?

Stranger

 

[rockytopva]

I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

Seven Candlesticks - The seven churches as outlined above
Seven Stars - We are all stars within the churches, held in the right hand of Christ Jesus (Revelation 2:1)
Seven Seals - All Christians have their name in the book of life, sealed within their congregation.

1-2 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3-4 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. - Revleation 5

If this is not the lambs book of life why all the ado?

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; - Revelation 7:9

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. - Revelation 19:14

We will meet the Lord in the air and then stand before the throne, in white garments, after we have assembled in heaven, ready to mount on white horses, to return with Christ to reign a thousand years! It is 12 chapters between Revelation 7 and 19. And I would think at least 3.5 years if not 7.0.

The difference between the rapture and the second coming is that in the rapture we arise to meet the Lord in the air, and in the second coming we return with the Lord to reign with him 1,000 years.

 

[Helen]

Being that "the kingdom of God is within you", it should come as no surprise that when we are "caught up", we don't actually go anywhere.

So...since we don't actually go anywhere...the rapturous experience should be viewed more as the mind-blowing "change" that it is also said to be. We "go" from being an organic mammal critter, to have a new spiritual creation life form take over our body. What a rush!

As for "meeting Christ "in the air"...that is just an old world "worldly" way of saying "in the world/in spirit."

As for "returning with Christ", again, since we haven't [actually] gone anywhere...yes, we "return" "in the twinkling of an eye" to our old organic self, but now "with Christ" "living in us" in "One spirit." As for "reigning with Christ for a 1,000 years"...that is just an old world "worldly" way of saying "until the end."

I agree 100%
I could not have said it better myself.

 

[Stranger]

Being that "the kingdom of God is within you", it should come as no surprise that when we are "caught up", we don't actually go anywhere.

So...since we don't actually go anywhere...the rapturous experience should be viewed more as the mind-blowing "change" that it is also said to be. We "go" from being an organic mammal critter, to have a new spiritual creation life form take over our body. What a rush!

As for "meeting Christ "in the air"...that is just an old world "worldly" way of saying "in the world/in spirit."

As for "returning with Christ", again, since we haven't [actually] gone anywhere...yes, we "return" "in the twinkling of an eye" to our old organic self, but now "with Christ" "living in us" in "One spirit." As for "reigning with Christ for a 1,000 years"...that is just an old world "worldly" way of saying "until the end."

"And then the end shall come."

I disagree with not just what you say about the rapture but your whole method of interpretation.

What is the 'kingdom of God within you' that means 'caught up' doesn't mean 'caught up'? What is this kingdom of God?

Does 'rose again' in (1Thess 4:14) mean rose again? Why? or Why not?

In (4:16), does 'descend from heaven' mean 'descend from heaven'?

In (4:16), does 'shall rise first' mean 'shall rise first'.

Is (Acts 1:9) to be taken literally? "...he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight." Or is it just an old worldly way of saying things?

Stranger

 

[ScottA]

I disagree with not just what you say about the rapture but your whole method of interpretation.

What is the 'kingdom of God within you' that means 'caught up' doesn't mean 'caught up'? What is this kingdom of God?

Does 'rose again' in (1Thess 4:14) mean rose again? Why? or Why not?

In (4:16), does 'descend from heaven' mean 'descend from heaven'?

In (4:16), does 'shall rise first' mean 'shall rise first'.

Is (Acts 1:9) to be taken literally? "...he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight." Or is it just an old worldly way of saying things?

Stranger

Let me say first, that it would appear that we are in agreement that the scriptures are true. But thank you for noting the issues.

I submit that what I have asserted is not different than what is written, only that it is a difference of perspective, as "discerned spiritually."

So, then, one at a time:

1. "What is the kingdom of God?" If we start with Christ's comment that "the kingdom of God is within you"...then this manifest world...is "outer darkness."
2. "Rose again" would mean "above", just as God is above us...not meaning "up", but rather, "higher than" us. So, then, when Christ "lowered" Himself, it was not "down", but of "lower" status...as "a Light into darkness."
3. "Descend from heaven", again, would not mean "down", but into darkness and "lower" in status ("The Father is greater than I").
4. "Shall rise first", would mean to "proceed" those who are alive but remain in the [lower] status of this world, the "valley of the shadow of death."
5. "He was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight" would not mean "up" in geography or altitude, but in status. Remember, He said, "I go to the Father" whom is "greater" (higher) "than I." But I submit, that what is manifest in the world is a mere shadow (a parable) of what is on high. In essence, God has drawn us a picture of we could not see - but it is what is unseen that is true in full, and what we see in the world, is "only in part."

So, what you refer to as being true of the word, is true, but only in part...and I am speaking in the full.

 

[Stranger]

Let me say first, that it would appear that we are in agreement that the scriptures are true. But thank you for noting the issues.

I submit that what I have asserted is not different than what is written, only that it is a difference of perspective, as "discerned spiritually."

So, then, one at a time:

1. "What is the kingdom of God?" If we start with Christ's comment that "the kingdom of God is within you"...then this manifest world...is "outer darkness."
2. "Rose again" would mean "above", just as God is above us...not meaning "up", but rather, "higher than" us. So, then, when Christ "lowered" Himself, it was not "down", but of "lower" status...as "a Light into darkness."
3. "Descend from heaven", again, would not mean "down", but into darkness and "lower" in status ("The Father is greater than I").
4. "Shall rise first", would mean to "proceed" those who are alive but remain in the [lower] status of this world, the "valley of the shadow of death."
5. "He was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight" would not mean "up" in geography or altitude, but in status. Remember, He said, "I go to the Father" whom is "greater" (higher) "than I." But I submit, that what is manifest in the world is a mere shadow (a parable) of what is on high. In essence, God has drawn us a picture of we could not see - but it is what is unseen that is true in full, and what we see in the world, is "only in part."

So, what you refer to as being true of the word, is true, but only in part...and I am speaking in the full.

1.) You can't start with Christ's comment concerning the kingdom of God. The Kingdom is taught all through the Bible. What is that kingdom? And, again, how does the statement that the 'kingdom of God is within you', mean that 'caught up' doesn't mean 'caught up'?

2.) Does 'rose again' mean, possibly, the resurrection? (1Thess. 4:14) Which means He was literally raised from the dead?

3.) So, 'descend from heaven' doesn't mean Christ descends from heaven?

4.) Where does it say that those who rise first remain in the lower status of the world? When it expressly states in (16-17) "...dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:" Did you see the "with them"?

5. So, you're saying Jesus Christ was not taken up in a cloud in (Acts 1:9)? Which must mean He will not return in like manner also as vs (10) says. Correct?

You say what I refer to is only in part. You say you speak in the 'full'. Well indeed you are full....

And instead of increasing knowledge as to what is said, you are actually diminishing what is actually said. You take away from the kingdom, from the resurrection, from the ascension, from the rapture, and from the 2nd Coming.

Stranger

 

[ScottA]

1.) You can't start with Christ's comment concerning the kingdom of God. The Kingdom is taught all through the Bible. What is that kingdom? And, again, how does the statement that the 'kingdom of God is within you', mean that 'caught up' doesn't mean 'caught up'?

2.) Does 'rose again' mean, possibly, the resurrection? (1Thess. 4:14) Which means He was literally raised from the dead?

3.) So, 'descend from heaven' doesn't mean Christ descends from heaven?

4.) Where does it say that those who rise first remain in the lower status of the world? When it expressly states in (16-17) "...dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:" Did you see the "with them"?

5. So, you're saying Jesus Christ was not taken up in a cloud in (Acts 1:9)? Which must mean He will not return in like manner also as vs (10) says. Correct?

You say what I refer to is only in part. You say you speak in the 'full'. Well indeed you are full....

And instead of increasing knowledge as to what is said, you are actually diminishing what is actually said. You take away from the kingdom, from the resurrection, from the ascension, from the rapture, and from the 2nd Coming.

Stranger

1. I am not starting with Christ's comment, but finishing with it. This is the nature of God's continued revelation unto all truth. In Him all things are "finished." His statement does not mean that "caught up" does not mean "caught up", but rather it explains just [how] it is meant.
2. Yes, "rose again" does mean "resurrection."
3. No, "descent from heaven" doesn't mean He did not descend from heaven, it simply means His descent was not geographic or altitude, but rather a descent to a "lower" status.
4. It says that those who are first, are "alive and remain." 1 Thessalonians 4:15
5. No, I am not saying that anything that is written is not true, just not understood in the proper perspective. In the proper perspective, Christ "went" in the way that we should know is true...if we receive that "God is spirit." He went to the Father...of course He went "in spirit", that is the kingdom in which He is King (not of this world). So, from a worldly perspective He went as the world sees, but from a heavenly/godly perspective the world has not perceived what it cannot see, which is spirit. But in the words of the angel of God, "like manner", is to mean, "like" God.

If you cannot hear it or will not, you are in good company, for Christ even told his apostles, “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now."

I have attested to what is true. He that has an ear, let him hear.

 

[Stranger]

1. I am not starting with Christ's comment, but finishing with it. This is the nature of God's continued revelation unto all truth. In Him all things are "finished." His statement does not mean that "caught up" does not mean "caught up", but rather it explains just [how] it is meant.
2. Yes, "rose again" does mean "resurrection."
3. No, "descent from heaven" doesn't mean He did not descend from heaven, it simply means His descent was not geographic or altitude, but rather a descent to a "lower" status.
4. It says that those who are first, are "alive and remain." 1 Thessalonians 4:15
5. No, I am not saying that anything that is written is not true, just not understood in the proper perspective. In the proper perspective, Christ "went" in the way that we should know is true...if we receive that "God is spirit." He went to the Father...of course He went "in spirit", that is the kingdom in which He is King (not of this world). So, from a worldly perspective He went as the world sees, but from a heavenly/godly perspective the world has not perceived what it cannot see, which is spirit. But in the words of the angel of God, "like manner", is to mean, "like" God.

If you cannot hear it or will not, you are in good company, for Christ even told his apostles, “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now."

I have attested to what is true. He that has an ear, let him hear.

1.) But, that is not what you said. Post #26

2.) So, what you said #26 was just......'fluff'?

3.) When it says Christ shall descend from heaven, how is that not geographical? What basis do you have to say it is only to a lower status?

4.) But those who are alive and remain are caught up together with those that rise first...to meet the Lord in the air.

5.) Was Jesus Christ really and literally taken up in a cloud as (Acts 1:9) says, or was He not? And will He return in like manner, really and literally. ? You shade the truth by your use of the word 'true'. You want to say it is all true, but then you want to say what it says is not the truth. What is the truth is whatever interpretation you want to give it.

I don't have an ear to hear what you are saying.

Stranger

 

[ScottA]

1.) But, that is not what you said. Post #26

2.) So, what you said #26 was just......'fluff'?

3.) When it says Christ shall descend from heaven, how is that not geographical? What basis do you have to say it is only to a lower status?

4.) But those who are alive and remain are caught up together with those that rise first...to meet the Lord in the air.

5.) Was Jesus Christ really and literally taken up in a cloud as (Acts 1:9) says, or was He not? And will He return in like manner, really and literally. ? You shade the truth by your use of the word 'true'. You want to say it is all true, but then you want to say what it says is not the truth. What is the truth is whatever interpretation you want to give it.

I don't have an ear to hear what you are saying.

Stranger

1. If I have started with you at the finish, it is only because that is where we are.
2. No, that was me assuming you would take Christ's comment as the final word on the matter.
3. Descending from the sky would be geographical. But the kingdom of God (heaven), according to Jesus, "is within you", not up, down, or side, or of the world. The scriptures all declare that God is "higher" than us and the world, but Jesus elaborated to say that the Father was rather "greater", meaning not a direction, but a status difference.
4. Well, you have it a little wrong, but I understand what you mean. Nonetheless, those who are first are last, and those who are last first. Meaning, that those who died before the cross ("the dead in Christ") were with Him "first" - "today", on the day of Christ, the day of His crucifixion, but "last" to be "born again of the spirit of God"; while those after the cross are "last" to be "raised up" in the "resurrection", but "first" to be "born again of the spirit of God." The "air" is a reference to meeting Christ "in the world", in the way of being "born again."
5. What Jesus "really" or "literally" was, depends on your definition or really and literally. If you define it as the world defines it, then the world is the only reality, and therefore all things are seen in that way. But if God and the kingdom is reality and the world a mere creation and manifestation (as it is written), then that is the definition that we should be seeking.

According to God then, what is written is true, but only real in that sense - history is His story. This is media. Which means that all we experience in the world is not literal, but rather an "image."

 

[Stranger]

1. If I have started with you at the finish, it is only because that is where we are.
2. No, that was me assuming you would take Christ's comment as the final word on the matter.
3. Descending from the sky would be geographical. But the kingdom of God (heaven), according to Jesus, "is within you", not up, down, or side, or of the world. The scriptures all declare that God is "higher" than us and the world, but Jesus elaborated to say that the Father was rather "greater", meaning not a direction, but a status difference.
4. Well, you have it a little wrong, but I understand what you mean. Nonetheless, those who are first are last, and those who are last first. Meaning, that those who died before the cross ("the dead in Christ") were with Him "first" - "today", on the day of Christ, the day of His crucifixion, but "last" to be "born again of the spirit of God"; while those after the cross are "last" to be "raised up" in the "resurrection", but "first" to be "born again of the spirit of God." The "air" is a reference to meeting Christ "in the world", in the way of being "born again."
5. What Jesus "really" or "literally" was, depends on your definition or really and literally. If you define it as the world defines it, then the world is the only reality, and therefore all things are seen in that way. But if God and the kingdom is reality and the world a mere creation and manifestation (as it is written), then that is the definition that we should be seeking.

According to God then, what is written is true, but only real in that sense - history is His story. This is media. Which means that all we experience in the world is not literal, but rather an "image."

1.) More bs. You said in #26 you are starting with Christ's comments. Then you say in #28 you are not starting but finishing. You simply say whatever you think you can get away with.

2.) More bs. You state that 'rose again' meant that Christ is of a lower status. Then when questioned, you say in #28 that 'rose again' does speak to Christ's resurrection. Which means your original statement of 'rose again' in # 26 was just fluff...and bull. (1 Thess. 4:14) is clear. 'Rose again' speaks to Christ's resurrection. Not some lower status bs.

3.) (1 Thess. 4:16) doesn't say 'descended from the sky'. It says "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven". Big difference. The kingdom of God is much more that (Luke 17:21 ) says. And, again, how does that statement mean that 'caught up' doesn't mean 'caught up"

4.) Your response is bs. Fluff. You answered nothing and understand nothing. You speak much but give no Scripture. You only give your subjective opinion. (1 Thess. 4:16-17) says "...the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air...." This not some lower status bs, as you say in #26. Nor does it have anything to do with the 'first shall be last and the last shall be first'. And why don't you ever give Scripture to these statements? Why? Because you don't want anyone else to read them. (Mark 10:31) has nothing to do with (1Thess. 4:16-17).

5.) BS. You know what literal and real means. And, you avoided the question. Which means you don't want to answer. Which begs the question, why? So..I will ask again. Was Jesus Christ really and literally taken up in a cloud as (Acts 1:9) says? And will He return in like manner, really and literally, as (Acts 1:11) says?

No, not according to God. Because you are speaking contrary to the Word of God. It is according to you and your non-literal world and imaginiation. And your imagination runs wild...as will everyones. Which is why we must be grounded in the written Word of God.

Stranger

 

[ScottA]

1.) More bs. You said in #26 you are starting with Christ's comments. Then you say in #28 you are not starting but finishing. You simply say whatever you think you can get away with.

If you are going to refer to the truth as bs, then we will have to slow down and take things one at a time.

I did start with Christ's comment. I said that. Then I explained that I started at the finish...because Christ had the final say. Simple English.

 

[ScottA]

2.) More bs. You state that 'rose again' meant that Christ is of a lower status. Then when questioned, you say in #28 that 'rose again' does speak to Christ's resurrection. Which means your original statement of 'rose again' in # 26 was just fluff...and bull. (1 Thess. 4:14) is clear. 'Rose again' speaks to Christ's resurrection. Not some lower status bs.

You have not been getting much of what I said...and now your summary shows it. Let ME summarize, you're not doing so good:

1. Jesus lowered himself (not literally from upstairs, but in stature).
2. He died for our sins.
3. He rose again (not just from his earthly tomb, and not to the rooftop or the mountains, but to his former and new stature.

 

[ScottA]

3.) (1 Thess. 4:16) doesn't say 'descended from the sky'. It says "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven". Big difference. The kingdom of God is much more that (Luke 17:21 ) says. And, again, how does that statement mean that 'caught up' doesn't mean 'caught up"

Yes, big difference...that is what I have been saying. "Sky" was me being facetious about your apparent interpretation of where Christ went and will again descend from. It was me who indicated that was wrong.

We aren't going to get anywhere if you go flying off like this. I didn't say caught up didn't mean caught up. Pay attention. I said it didn't mean "up" as in geography or altitude...or sky.

 

[ScottA]

4.) Your response is bs. Fluff. You answered nothing and understand nothing. You speak much but give no Scripture. You only give your subjective opinion. (1 Thess. 4:16-17) says "...the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air...." This not some lower status bs, as you say in #26. Nor does it have anything to do with the 'first shall be last and the last shall be first'. And why don't you ever give Scripture to these statements? Why? Because you don't want anyone else to read them. (Mark 10:31) has nothing to do with (1Thess. 4:16-17).

You don't want me to explain the parable? No problem.

Why would I read back to you what you do not understand? I have done better than quote.

 

[ScottA]

5.) BS. You know what literal and real means. And, you avoided the question. Which means you don't want to answer. Which begs the question, why? So..I will ask again. Was Jesus Christ really and literally taken up in a cloud as (Acts 1:9) says? And will He return in like manner, really and literally, as (Acts 1:10) says?

I have answered and explained, and you dis' me and tell me I have not answered. I will not answer you...again.

 

[ScottA]

No, not according to God. Because you are speaking contrary to the Word of God. It is according to you and your non-literal world and imaginiation. And your imagination runs wild...as will everyones. Which is why we must be grounded in the written Word of God.

Stranger

Indeed, what chance has the truth against the words? I shall have to ask the Pharisees.

Good luck with your reading.

 

[Stranger]

Yes, big difference...that is what I have been saying. "Sky" was me being facetious about your apparent interpretation of where Christ went and will again descend from. It was me who indicated that was wrong.

We aren't going to get anywhere if you go flying off like this. I didn't say caught up didn't mean caught up. Pay attention. I said it didn't mean "up" as in geography or altitude...or sky.

Your use of sky in your point #3, is wrong because Christ descended from Heaven. Trying to make descend not mean descend because the kingdom of God is within you is also wrong. Just like 'rose again' means Jesus 'rose again', so when it says He shall descend from Heaven, He shall descend from Heaven. In other words your allegorical interpretation takes away from what is being said.

You did say 'caught up' doesn't mean 'caught up' in your post #14. Pay attention. You said we dont go any where. But (1Thess. 4:17) is clear we do go somewhere..in the clouds, in the air. That means going up. You cannot put your own definition to words in the Bible.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

You have not been getting much of what I said...and now your summary shows it. Let ME summarize, you're not doing so good:

1. Jesus lowered himself (not literally from upstairs, but in stature).
2. He died for our sins.
3. He rose again (not just from his earthly tomb, and not to the rooftop or the mountains, but to his former and new stature.

Actually I do understand what you're saying. Which is why I said what I did. In your point #2 you didn't even mention the resurrection. You just put some symbolic interpretation to it.

And just as 'rose again' really means 'rose again' so 'descend from Heaven' really means 'descend from Heaven.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

You don't want me to explain the parable? No problem.

Why would I read back to you what you do not understand? I have done better than quote.

There is no parable to explain concerning your point #4.

In your mind you think you have done better than quote the Scriptures. But you havent. As I said, you are taking away from Scripture, not contributing to any understanding.

Stranger