Rebirth - Salvation and Conversion

[APAK]

@BreadOfLife ..last part of my reply on your take on salvation

I won’t comment on your version of baptism with your creative ways for support that fits and forces your definition on us. There are a few folks currently speaking on it subject.

You said: Initial salvation comes with the grace to believe. However - true faith is NOT just belief. because James 2:19 tells us that even the DEMONS can do that.
True faith = Belief + Obedience (works).

This is a recurring incorrect assessment you have made concerning true faith.

True faith =: gift(s) of God =: God’s own faith given to the candidate for the miraculous act of salvation + faith accrued (as a process) from God to the saved who cooperates with God (as spiritual works)

Your (own)obedience and your works are like dirty rags to God.

You said: “Salvation is a gift that needs to be nurtured and worked on because it can be LOST - just as faith can be lost.”

Salvation is technically not a gift of God. Salvation is a/the grace of God enabled by bestowing his gift to us. This gift is HIS OWN FAITH to those that truly believe. Ephesians 2:8-9.

(Eph 2:8) For by grace have you been saved through faith, and that faith is not of yourselves, it is a gift from God.
(Eph 2:9) It is not of works, that no one should boast. (ALL NEV)

Read Ephesians 2:8-9 again. You don’t nurture salvation, you have salvation by the grace of God. Do you believe it is from the grace of God? If yes, they why are you nurturing the act of salvation? What you really need to say is that you are cooperating with God because of his gift of his own faith.


We or you nurture this FAITH not the salvation (the end-goal)!!!! This is scriptural, indeed. How can you nurture the end-goal? What, by praying to God every day and thanking him for saving you until you pass. He already did this, and he now wants you to get up off your feet and grow HIS FAITH he gave you, to build upon.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Taken]

Like I said - until you can reconcile your false beliefs with epignosis - the scales will remain in your eyes.

Like I said I trust Scripture IS true and correct knowledge.

Many adults can actually READ the true and correct knowledge in Scripture....it is their perrogrative to believe it or not.

Like I said An individual can CHOOSE to give his life to the Lord or not......Men who heartfully give their life to the Lord become Converted ONCE and FOREVER.

I have aleady accomplished giving my life to the Lord and receiving a Convertion From, by and through the Lord.

^ THAT makes me privy to HIS Understanding.

You have NEVER claimed YOU gave your life to the Lord....so there is NO REASON for you to pretend you are qualified to Teach anyone, anything other than Catholic doctrine, which you should have noticed, the Protestants on these umpteen posts are not clammoring to become Catholics.

 

[APAK]

No - these verses show that the person must COOPERATE or lose out.
They show that salvation is conditional - and anything that has conditions is a process.

You are making this up BOL, or reading from other religious sources and not from scripture. I stand by my words..

Bless you,

APAK

 

[BreadOfLife]

@BreadOfLife ..more of my reply to your theory of salvation

1 Cor. 3:12–15 (9-16, 23)

(1Co 3:9) For we are God's fellow-workers. You are God's husbandry, God's building.
(1Co 3:10) According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another builds upon it. But let each man take care how he builds upon it!
(1Co 3:11) For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
(1Co 3:12) But IF anyone builds on the foundation gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, stubble,
(1Co 3:13) each man's work shall be revealed. For the day of judgment shall declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire itself shall test each man's work of what sort it is.
(1Co 3:14) IF anyone's work shall endure which he built thereon, he shall receive a reward.
(1Co 3:15) IF anyone's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet as having passed through fire.
(1Co 3:16) Do you not know that you are a temple of God, and the Spirit of God dwells in you?
(1Co 3:23) And you are Christ's, and Christ is God's. (ALL NEV)

This passage of scripture speaks to saved folks again the potential loss of rewards and not loss of salvation. And it does not speak of salvation as a process controlled by man.

Another post on this post of yours is forthcoming.....APAK

WRONG.

This is talking about BOTH Salvation AND Rewards. Again - it is about CONDITIONS of salvation and rewards.
Anything that has conditions is a process.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You are making this up BOL, or reading from other religious sources and not from scripture. I stand by my words..

Bless you,

APAK

And I stand by the Word of GOD, which shows that salvation is conditional.
God's love is not.

 

[Taken]

APAK ~

Excellent passages FOR the ears of the eager to Hear the TRUTH.

BOL is conditioned to be stiffnecked, rebellious, and deaf.

Dispite BOL's rejection....there is always those standing by whom your passages will enlighten and benefit and spark their interest to learning more.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[APAK]

The quick answer is that NEITHER of the verses you presented talk about the fact that people can choose to walk away from Christ after being born again. I gave SEVERAL passages that show this to be true.

Cherry-picking Scripture to satisfy your man-made doctrines is NEVER a good idea because you wind up having to cancel out a lot of other verses do NOT support your view.

Ah, the cheery-picking diversion tactic again.

Stop changing the subject and don't make a goat of yourself. You gave me the list of scriptures and I responded to all 11 of them, so who is doing the cherry-picking now? You gave them TO ME not the other way around. Are you still there..?

I was answering your scripture support that you thought that 'salvation was a process' Now after answering all of them you change the subject to well 'they can still walk away...give me a break!

Give me all of your latest 'you can still walk away' scriptures and I will dissect them as I did with your theory of salvation.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[BreadOfLife]

@BreadOfLife ..more of my reply to your post on salvation is a process etc...

Heb 12:14
(Heb 12:14) Follow after peace with all men, and the holiness without which no one shall see the Lord. (NEV)

This is another verse speaking of a saved person continuing in the sanctification process and cooperating with the gift of God in one of the three major areas – pursuing peace.

Correct.

Cooperating, following, continuing, pursuing.
These are ALL works. This verse says NOTHING, however of what happens when you STOP cooperating, following, continuing, pursuing, etc. It shows the process we MUST continue in to be saved.

Matt. 24:13

(Mat 24:3) And as he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying: Tell us, when shall these things be? And what is the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?
(Mat 24:6) And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. Ensure you are not alarmed, for this must happen- but the end is not yet.
(Mat 24:13) But he that endures to the end, the same shall be saved.
(Mat 24:14) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony to all the nations- and then shall the end come.
(Mat 24:22) And except those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved- but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (ALL NEV)

Verse 13 speaks to the physical deliverance of tribulation saints when Christ returns. It has nothing to do with the saved person of this age, under grace. Nothing here about salvation is a process to do by men.

Rom. 5:9–10, (8-11)

(Rom 5:8) " But God commends His own love toward us, in that, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. "
(Rom 5:9) " Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from the anger of God through him. "
(Rom 5:10) " For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. "
(Rom 5:11) " And not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. (ALL NEV)

This passage acknowledges that we, as previous unbelievers and part of the unsaved were sinners, and not now. Even when we were sinners Christ died for us. We are much more than sinners today, we are justified by the blood of Jesus and made right and holy with God. We are saved by this justification and righteous. We got saved via one miraculous event and we are not BEING saved today as process. Maybe you are being processed for salvation at some future date?

Another post on this post of yours is forthcoming.....APAK[/QUOTE]
WRONG.

You're STILL a sinner (Rom. 7:14-25, 1 John 1:8) in constant need of God's grace.
This nonsense that we confess once and we're forgiven for everything that we did in the past, present and fuutre is annti-Biblical, man-made invention that was NEVER taught by anybody in the historic Christian faith for 1600 years.

You need to repent and confess EVERY time you sin.[/QUOTE]

 

[BreadOfLife]

Ah, the cheery-picking diversion tactic again.

Stop changing the subject and don't make a goat of yourself. You gave me the list of scriptures and I responded to all 11 of them, so who is doing the cherry-picking now? You gave them TO ME not the other way around. Are you still there..?

I was answering your scripture support that you thought that 'salvation was a process' Now after answering all of them you change the subject to well 'they can still walk away...give me a break!

Give me all of your latest 'you can still walk away' scriptures and I will dissect them as I did with your theory of salvation.

Bless you,

APAK

It's NOT a "diversion" - it's the truth.
You and Taken cherry-pick Scripture to support your aberrant theology and you HATE it when I point that out to you.

As for your last comment - you already TRIED to dissect the verses I gave you about rejecting Christ and you couldn't get past "Epignosis" - like your partner in crime, Taken . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

WE make OURSELVES enemies of God. God doesn't make enemies of US.
John 3:16
For God so LOVED THE WORLD, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

That's right. We make ourselves enemies of God through UNBELIEF.

For God so LOVED THE WORLD, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

No - they're explicit. Nothing has been taken out of context here.
If it has - then the onus is on YOU to show it.

You would need discernment to understand what's figurative or not, no? I'm not buyin what you're peddlin bro

Pay attention.
We're talking about Eternal Security here. NOTHING in Scripture teaches this man-made doctrine.

Pay attention BOL, Rom 8:31-39 is about the elect, believers in Christ.

Matt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

eklektos: select, by impl. favorite
Original Word: ἐκλεκτός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: eklektos
Phonetic Spelling: (ek-lek-tos')
Short Definition: chosen, elect, choice, select
Definition: chosen out, elect, choice, select, sometimes as subst: of those chosen out by God for the rendering of special service to Him (of the Hebrew race, particular Hebrews, the Messiah, and the Christians).

 

[Taken]

Cooperating, following, continuing, pursuing.
These are ALL works.

Correct, and I agree you think Cooperating is Works that EARN you your salvation.

Cooperating IS WHAT a man IN HIS FILTHY SINFUL FLESH DOES, TO PREPARE HIM FOR CONVERSTION!!!!

Already covered this in one of my so-called "rants" lol

A man is Justified when he is converted...
Not by Works Gal 2:16

You can not DO any acceptable works WITHOUT being Converted.

Works Do not EARN you Salvation.

Works that Glorify God GAINS you REWARDS and BLESSINGS and TREASURES stored up IN Heaven.

Works that do not Glorify God are BURNED, whether or not one is Converted.

This verse says NOTHING, however of what happens when you STOP cooperating, following, continuing, pursuing, etc.

THAT verse doesn't need to...Other scripture does. You have been told and shown.

It shows the process we MUST continue in to be saved.

Already been told and shown you. MEN go through a process ...it called HEARING and LEARNING... FIND a church that teaches the truth and get to processing.

The Lord is the HOLDER of the Gifts that Convert a MAN....He is not going through a PROCESS....He is patiently Waiting for stiffnecked rebellious men to hear, learn and trust to believe and repent...so He can Convert them.

You need to repent and confess EVERY time you sin.

You need to learn what SIN means TO WHOM, and WHY.

 

[APAK]

It's NOT a "diversion" - it's the truth.
You and Taken cherry-pick Scripture to support your aberrant theology and you HATE it when I point that out to you.

As for your last comment - you already TRIED to dissect the verses I gave you about rejecting Christ and you couldn't get past "Epignosis" - like your partner in crime, Taken . . .

BOL:

I'm sorry you feel you have to resort to labelling people as haters; either of you or hate what you say. Your writing on this subject of salvation is mostly pure garage, based on your own creations or from your doctrines, if you really want to know. I do not take your truth seriously.

I have confidence in my Lord and the spirit of God as evidence of my salvation. I continue to work out my salvation in truth. Can you say the same?

Expect to placed off-guard more frequently when you least expect it. In other words, make sure you know what you spit out as truth, folks may take you to task more directly.

I question whether you really know the Lord by your words and tone alone let alone some of your beliefs. No believer that I know would resort to the tone and type of language you use in sharing the truth in love and peace. Maybe that's not your intention anyway.

A

re you still stuck on the word 'epignosis?' Try praying about it . It may extend your epignosis of the truth. Might humble you a bit as well.​

Bless you, and have a great Dad day if it is applicable


APAK

 

[Taken]

BOL:

I'm sorry you feel you have to resort to labelling people as haters; either of you or hate what you say. Your writing on this subject of salvation is mostly pure garage, based on your own creations or from your doctrines, if you really want to know. I do not take your truth seriously.

I have confidence in my Lord and the spirit of God as evidence of my salvation. I continue to work out my salvation in truth. Can you say the same?

Expect to placed off-guard more frequently when you least expect it. In other words, make sure you know what you spit out as truth, folks may take you to task more directly.

I question whether you really know the Lord by your words and tone alone let alone some of your beliefs. No believer that I know would resort to the tone and type of language you use in sharing the truth in love and peace. Maybe that's not your intention anyway.

A

re you still stuck on the word 'epignosis?' Try praying about it . It may extend your epignosis of the truth. Might humble you a bit as well.​

Bless you, and have a great Dad day if it is applicable


APAK

Hi APAK,

BOL has already revealed his intent.
His "intent" is to defend Catholicism.

His "holy father" is whatever pope is in office, and whatever his "pope" says, is what he believes. If it seems conflicting with Scripture, no problem, mind-ful reasoning justifies it.

Don't agree with them....you are wrong, a hater, conspiring to commit sin, blah, blah.

We have all been repeatedly reminded how Catholicism is the oldest Christian religion in the World, according to Catholics, so they must be right. Although that tiny little fact is often overlooked that for centuries a huge number of Church members hadn't a clue what was being preached to them "in Latin".

Doesn't really matter since even a deaf person can learn "rituals", stand, sit, kneel, recite over and over, count beads, hand gestures, drink, eat, bow, watch the performance of the Priest, and what a lovely castle-like setting of statues and artwork to hear the singing echoing in the sanctuary.

They are not unlike the Muslims in may ways with their "rituals" being paramount, and IF you are "with them", all is well, IF not, you are a "hater" and distruction of "your" beliefs is the "goal". It is NOT about the Lords Truth, and His Holy Father, but rather about the truth "according to" the pope of the day who is "their" holy father.

Their Popes teach...."they are the Way", the Christ, the holy father God, and without going THROUGH Mary to "them", a man can not be saved.

Regardless if you are armed with the TRUTH, and desirous to share it with them.....they are conditioned from infants their God on earth is the Pope, and what he teaches IS "their" truth.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[APAK]

Hi APAK,

BOL has already revealed his intent.
His "intent" is to defend Catholicism.

His "holy father" is whatever pope is in office, and whatever his "pope" says, is what he believes. If it seems conflicting with Scripture, no problem, mind-ful reasoning justifies it.

Don't agree with them....you are wrong, a hater, conspiring to commit sin, blah, blah.

We have all been repeatedly reminded how Catholicism is the oldest Christian religion in the World, according to Catholics, so they must be right. Although that tiny little fact is often overlooked that for centuries a huge number of Church members hadn't a clue what was being preached to them "in Latin".

Doesn't really matter since even a deaf person can learn "rituals", stand, sit, kneel, recite over and over, count beads, hand gestures, drink, eat, bow, watch the performance of the Priest, and what a lovely castle-like setting of statues and artwork to hear the singing echoing in the sanctuary.

They are not unlike the Muslims in may ways with their "rituals" being paramount, and IF you are "with them", all is well, IF not, you are a "hater" and distruction of "your" beliefs is the "goal". It is NOT about the Lords Truth, and His Holy Father, but rather about the truth "according to" the pope of the day who is "their" holy father.

Their Popes teach...."they are the Way", the Christ, the holy father God, and without going THROUGH Mary to "them", a man can not be saved.

Regardless if you are armed with the TRUTH, and desirous to share it with them.....they are conditioned from infants their God on earth is the Pope, and what he teaches IS "their" truth.

God Bless,
Taken

Taken

Thanks for resetting reality for me once more. Pointing out, clearly false teachings at times, that I know is the core to one's salvation is paramount to me, and needs to done. Of course some will see this as being unloving and such. I do not, as I try to have patience and treat others in love and yes firmness, to really validate and authenticate what another person's view is on the subject.

As you, I shall keep pointing our errors, and not because I feel I have the high road and I'm wanting to upstage someone. It is what has been revealed to me and I believe as truth. There are many things I do not have a voice on, they are still issue or areas that are still incubating inside me. I don't know enough. We even do not agree on some specific doctrine as I also differ with others on this site. I still hang in there because I still want to learn and listen.

Bless you as well and keep on using the words of God for everyone's benefit and yourself.

APAK

 

[Taken]

You and Taken cherry-pick Scripture to support your aberrant theology and you HATE it when I point that out to you.

You can call it cherry-picking all day long, in an attempt to justify your own lack of understanding.

No it is not hate when you attempt to apply inappropriate scriptures, but rather sad you are so misguided.

DIVIDE the Word of TRUTH.

For Example....

Acts 28:27
For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are full of hearing, and their eyes have they closed.

THIS APPLIES to People WHO ARE those things.

Same passage....Acts 28:27
IF they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be Converted, and I should heal them...

IF a Person to whom the First part applies, does these things........HELLO, the first part NO LONGER APPLIES!

So while you attempt in a derogatory fashion accuse people of cherry-picking scripture...

Scripture absolutely teaches to DIVIDE the WORLD of TRUTH.
2 Tim 2:15

A man KNOWS what he has done and Which PARTS of Scripture apply to him and Which PARTS of Scripture DO NOT APPLY to him.

If that bothers YOU, too bad.

If YOU want to dictate ALL Scripture APPLIES to you....or Jewish Law Scriptures APPLIES to you.....THAT'S YOU...

You DICTATING repeatedly WHAT APPLIES to other men is MOOT. You DO NOT know another mans heart. And if Scripture does not TELL you their Hearts decision, you are simply "speculating", which is MOOT.
Repeating it over and over and making false accusations against others...does not make it TRUE or Validate what you claim.

Outside of your ability to understand;

Hearing, Reading, Believing, following, knowledgeable, enlightened, having faith, MEN CAN FALL AWAY....

And

Hearing, Reading, Believing, following, knowledgeable, enlightened, having faith,
MEN WHO HAVE BECOME CONVERTED...
CAN NOT FALL AWAY....

YOU either DO NOT Comprehend the Paramount Difference (which IS the Controlling POWER, being man OR the Lord Himself) or are too ILL taught to Trust and Believe the Truth of the True Holy Father.

I resigned to the fact a long time ago, what I say in addressing you, is NOT for you, but for others who are eager to learn about Conversion of, by, through the TRUE Christ TO the TRUE Father, and a shared IN Christ experience amongst such men.

like your partner in crime, Taken . .

While making false statements may lead you to feel justified; the TRULY Converted are not swayed by your nonsense.

 

[Taken]

Taken

Thanks for resetting reality for me once more. Pointing out, clearly false teachings at times, that I know is the core to one's salvation is paramount to me, and needs to done. Of course some will see this as being unloving and such. I do not, as I try to have patience and treat others in love and yes firmness, to really validate and authenticate what another person's view is on the subject.

As you, I shall keep pointing our errors, and not because I feel I have the high road and I'm wanting to upstage someone. It is what has been revealed to me and I believe as truth. There are many things I do not have a voice on, they are still issue or areas that are still incubating inside me. I don't know enough. We even do not agree on some specific doctrine as I also differ with others on this site. I still hang in there because I still want to learn and listen.

Bless you as well and keep on using the words of God for everyone's benefit and yourself.

APAK

For one thing...Love simply IS.
We have not the power to Keep faith, to Save ourselves, to Quicken our spirits, to set straight our heart, follow the Lords Precepts, or love our enemies........

However the beauty of the Lords Power IN US....Changes our abilities to accomplish those things By and Through His Power IN US.

He Perfects the Naturally Broken, Corrupt, Anti, Unknowing, Misunderstanding, WITH His Power IN WHOM all things are possible.

ONCE Conversion is accomplished by and through Christ....a New man emerges PREPARED for a New journey of Eternal Life and Service and Praising and Glorifying God.

The WAYS to walk on this NEW Path, NEW Journey "according to Gods Precepts are endless." And everyone's Walk of Service is not "exactally" the same. Nor does what an individual DO on his WALK WITH the Lord, Require announcing, and justifying before men.

Converted men IN Christ ON the Path are NOT WALKING TOWARD earning Salvation...or hoping THEY can sustain their Salvation....(as SOME teach)....but ARE walking in the reflection of Gods Glory, that others may desire to do the same.

A mans REASONABLE Service is to become Converted.....Forgiven and MADE wholly whole and acceptable to be called up and presented holy before their Lord God.

A mans FAVORED and BLESSED and STORED TREASURES IN Heaven are GIFTS for a Converted mans efforts to speak, spread, tell, teach, inform others that they may elect to believe AND GIVE their lives to the Lord...
Repent and become Converted.

And WHY is that SO Paramount, and such a HIGHLY regarded result when a man Becomes Converted IN Christ?

WHO is He WHO creates and HAS EVERTHING?
First response would likely BE...God, right?

What can a MAN GIVE God, that He does not already have?

The Answer is; A man can WILLINGLY give his Washed and CLeansed and Sanctified Life TO GOD.......AND?

That such man "BECOMES" Gods Inheritance!

In Short...Men WHO elect and freely choose to BECOME Converted.......ARE the very same individuals WHO are GIVING GOD "HIS" Inheritance....

How Awesome is our Lord our God, to forgive and free us from sin, and make us Whole and wholly acceptable and perfected IN Christ to BE His Inheritance and forever Alive WITH Him.... Praise our Mighty Lord God.

As you show you do....Keep glorifying God that the willing may become converted and the converted may be edified.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Taken

Thanks for resetting reality for me once more. Pointing out, clearly false teachings at times, that I know is the core to one's salvation is paramount to me, and needs to done. Of course some will see this as being unloving and such.

APAK

A quick notation about Love.

Carnally minded, Love IS a warm gushy feeling....that naturally may come and go.

Spiritually minded, Love IS doing what is Right regardless of the Consequences.

Carnal love can be petty. Instruct, require, correct, punish....whaa, whaa...."you don't love me"....

Spiritual Love is ALWAYS about what IS RIGHT, even IF the Consequence IS correction, separation, a closed door, punishment, etc.

Learn the RIGHT, accept the correction, learn from it, and turn from the ERROR....IOW,
Get over humps ON the Path Keeping focused on the Direction and Lord who is always with us, always willing to get us THROUGH a bump in the road.

God Bless friend,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

That's right. We make ourselves enemies of God through UNBELIEF.
For God so LOVED THE WORLD, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

And the point here is that His love for us NEVER stops - whether WE abandon Him or not.
It doesn't mean, however, that we will be saved.

God's justice is part of His love.

You would need discernment to understand what's figurative or not, no? I'm not buyin what you're peddlin bro

So, instead of explaining how it is "figurative" - you'll just run the other way again?
That's what I thought . . .

Pay attention BOL, Rom 8:31-39 is about the elect, believers in Christ.

Matt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

eklektos: select, by impl. favorite
Original Word: ἐκλεκτός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: eklektos
Phonetic Spelling: (ek-lek-tos')
Short Definition: chosen, elect, choice, select
Definition: chosen out, elect, choice, select, sometimes as subst: of those chosen out by God for the rendering of special service to Him (of the Hebrew race, particular Hebrews, the Messiah, and the Christians).

And NOTHING in Romans 8 speaks about Eternal Security.
In fact - the ONLY way Eternal Security can work is through OUR cooperation.

Without our cooperation - there is NO security because we have refused God.
God's love, which is unconditonal - and Salvation, which is conditional are two completely different things.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You can call it cherry-picking all day long, in an attempt to justify your own lack of understanding.

No it is not hate when you attempt to apply inappropriate scriptures, but rather sad you are so misguided.

DIVIDE the Word of TRUTH.

For Example....

Acts 28:27
For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are full of hearing, and their eyes have they closed.

THIS APPLIES to People WHO ARE those things.

Same passage....Acts 28:27
IF they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be Converted, and I should heal them...

IF a Person to whom the First part applies, does these things........HELLO, the first part NO LONGER APPLIES!

So while you attempt in a derogatory fashion accuse people of cherry-picking scripture...

Scripture absolutely teaches to DIVIDE the WORLD of TRUTH.
2 Tim 2:15

A man KNOWS what he has done and Which PARTS of Scripture apply to him and Which PARTS of Scripture DO NOT APPLY to him.

If that bothers YOU, too bad.

If YOU want to dictate ALL Scripture APPLIES to you....or Jewish Law Scriptures APPLIES to you.....THAT'S YOU...

You DICTATING repeatedly WHAT APPLIES to other men is MOOT. You DO NOT know another mans heart. And if Scripture does not TELL you their Hearts decision, you are simply "speculating", which is MOOT.
Repeating it over and over and making false accusations against others...does not make it TRUE or Validate what you claim.

Outside of your ability to understand;

Hearing, Reading, Believing, following, knowledgeable, enlightened, having faith, MEN CAN FALL AWAY....

And
Hearing, Reading, Believing, following, knowledgeable, enlightened, having faith,
MEN WHO HAVE BECOME CONVERTED...
CAN NOT FALL AWAY....

YOU either DO NOT Comprehend the Paramount Difference (which IS the Controlling POWER, being man OR the Lord Himself) or are too ILL taught to Trust and Believe the Truth of the True Holy Father.

I resigned to the fact a long time ago, what I say in addressing you, is NOT for you, but for others who are eager to learn about Conversion of, by, through the TRUE Christ TO the TRUE Father, and a shared IN Christ experience amongst such men.

While making false statements may lead you to feel justified; the TRULY Converted are not swayed by your nonsense.

The cherry-picking YOU and others here do is simply an act of desperation.
Anybody can cherry-pick verses to create ANY doctrine they want.

For example - Psalm 14:1 can be cherry-picked to formulated a doctrine that God doesn't exist because it says, "There is no God."

HOWEVER - if you read it in CONTEXT, which is something YOU hate - it actually says, "The FOOL says in his heart, 'There is no God'."
BIG difference.

The same is true for all of the so-called Scriptural evidence for OSAS.
When taken in context with other Scripture verses - it simply does NOT exist . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

@BreadOfLife ..last part of my reply on your take on salvation

I won’t comment on your version of baptism with your creative ways for support that fits and forces your definition on us. There are a few folks currently speaking on it subject.

You said: Initial salvation comes with the grace to believe. However - true faith is NOT just belief. because James 2:19 tells us that even the DEMONS can do that.
True faith = Belief + Obedience (works).

This is a recurring incorrect assessment you have made concerning true faith.

True faith =: gift(s) of God =: God’s own faith given to the candidate for the miraculous act of salvation + faith accrued (as a process) from God to the saved who cooperates with God (as spiritual works)

Your (own)obedience and your works are like dirty rags to God.

You said: “Salvation is a gift that needs to be nurtured and worked on because it can be LOST - just as faith can be lost.”

Salvation is technically not a gift of God. Salvation is a/the grace of God enabled by bestowing his gift to us. This gift is HIS OWN FAITH to those that truly believe. Ephesians 2:8-9.

(Eph 2:8) For by grace have you been saved through faith, and that faith is not of yourselves, it is a gift from God.
(Eph 2:9) It is not of works, that no one should boast. (ALL NEV)

Read Ephesians 2:8-9 again. You don’t nurture salvation, you have salvation by the grace of God. Do you believe it is from the grace of God? If yes, they why are you nurturing the act of salvation? What you really need to say is that you are cooperating with God because of his gift of his own faith.

We or you nurture this FAITH not the salvation (the end-goal)!!!! This is scriptural, indeed. How can you nurture the end-goal? What, by praying to God every day and thanking him for saving you until you pass. He already did this, and he now wants you to get up off your feet and grow HIS FAITH he gave you, to build upon.

Bless you,
APAK

And this is complete hogwash.

Our works PRIOR to coming to faith are like dirty rags to God.
Our obedient works, however - are a DELIGHT to God (Exod 19:5, 1 Sam. 15:22, Isaisah 1:19).

You see, son - cherry-picking Isaiah 64:6 to show that our deeds are worthless doesn't stand up to the whole of Scripture in CONTEXT.

Context is where you guys keep failing . . .