Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[Helen]

Why do you believe it has nothing to do with reading the Bible or going to Church? (As if we haven't been down that road before?)

I wiil be bold enough to say this: You cannot fully know about Jesus without reading the Bible and you cannot fully worship Jesus if you are not in his Church. And yes, I mean and actual gathering of earthen vessels People dwelling in the flesh.

I even have a verse that says you don't/ can't have faith without a preacher. But, well you know.... That's what the Bivle says. If you don't need the Bible...

Hello there.
Although you were not writing to me..I feel to have my two cents. :)

Firstly, it IS possible. Abraham had no bible, neither went to Church.

I may choose to do those thing, but it is because I feel led by God's Spirit to do so. Not to because "every Christians must do so.
My faith is in God..not in God and the Bible..but in God OF the Bible!
If our faith depends on our bible reading, then we will be in a pickle if and when, they remove and ban all our bibles!

God once told me NOT to read the bible for a year. But to wait on Him, and see how much of His written word had become part OF me.
He is IN us..He IS The Word. We have His word. We do not "need" the bible...( young new Christians yes, but that's not what I am talking about) we read it because we love Him and love it.
If our relationship with God is dependant on bible reading ..then that does not say much at all for our relationship with Him!!

As for Church. We ARE the Church...it is a living thing...not some rented building or some elaborate edifice we have to go to.
I find with "going to church" in this day and age, I have more anointing and more blessing before I go...then, during the "meeting" I can slowly feel the joy that I had dribble away.
We have tried many "churches" in this city, and many or most just cause me to groan. Cooky cutter "pastors"...doing a job, with very little leadership anointing. And then they wonder why their congregations drifts from church to church.
I go as little as possible..it makes me sad to see how far the church has fallen.

Enough said.

 

[mjrhealth]

And the way continued after that to use the written word.

See thats why there is so much division, it was never about the "bible" . what do you think Jesus died for, to give men a book to confuse the world, doesnt the bible say that God is not the author of confusion, whom many version of God do you want there are hundreds depending on teh bible you read, teh church you go to, the doctrine you believe. Men came to Christ without teh bible and have done so for a good many years, God can live without teh bible it is men that cant.

And yet here you are still no life because you wont go to Him.

Joh_6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Joh_6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Joh_6:48 I am that bread of life.
Joh_6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

do you want to know Christ, go talk to Him, do you want to know teh bible, read it.

Funny thing is my dad gave me Hid old bible "after" i gave my Life to Jesus, because I didnt have one. And here you are demanding we need it. Jesus doesnt you do,

 

[pia]

See thats why there is so much division, it was never about the "bible" . what do you think Jesus died for, to give men a book to confuse the world, doesnt the bible say that God is not the author of confusion, whom many version of God do you want there are hundreds depending on teh bible you read, teh church you go to, the doctrine you believe. Men came to Christ without teh bible and have done so for a good many years, God can live without teh bible it is men that cant.

And yet here you are still no life because you wont go to Him.

Joh_6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Joh_6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Joh_6:48 I am that bread of life.
Joh_6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

do you want to know Christ, go talk to Him, do you want to know teh bible, read it.

Funny thing is my dad gave me Hid old bible "after" i gave my Life to Jesus, because I didnt have one. And here you are demanding we need it. Jesus doesnt you do,

Now this IS the Truth......

 

[Peanut]

Well I learned something from that!! That is news to me...live and learn as they say. I never dreamed that they would be so intimidated by us that they would take that much interest to try and mess up a forum. wow.
In one way, that must be a good thing eh? It shows that they want to quieten us and try to overturn our faith!! So we must be more of a threat than I knew :) Yay!!
Bring it on is what I say. LOL

Thank you for the info.

One such site. This is archived from 2009. LINK

 

[Helen]

One such site. This is archived from 2009. LINK

Thanks for that :)

 

[FHII]

Firstly, it IS possible. Abraham had no bible, neither went to Church

Ok let's start with that and let me ask a simple question: would Abraham read the Bible today?

Its not really a simple question. Reason being you are right... He didn't have a Bible. Didn't even have the 10 commandments. He didn't have Christ either.

Remember the parable of Lazarus and the rich man? Whose bosom was Lazarus in and where were they? He was in Abraham's and they certainly weren't in heaven. It may be closest to what the catholics call purgatory.

Abe's fine now. But had he had the gift we have if Christ and the knowledge of Christ?

The bottom line is that yes things worked out fine for him, but we are not in his day. We must be established in the present truth. Abraham was the guy to be around in his day, but we aren't. It would've been better to follow david. Then better to follow Isaiah, then John the Baptist and so on.

My faith is in God..not in God and the Bible..but in God OF the Bible!

I don't make a distinction. There is God and then his testiment or his word. I believe the Bible is a letter of what God wants us to know. Its no different then when a husband or wife writes a letter to his significant other.

He is IN us..He IS The Word. We have His word. We do not "need" the bible..

Absolutely! I men even Peter and John to an extent spoke of stirring up our pure minds, reminding us and that we know these things. But its the Bible that does it. And are you so aged that you are no longer a young new Christian? If there is nothing more you can learn, then I will retract that question.

As for Church. We ARE the Church...it is a living thing...not some rented building or some elaborate edifice we have to go to

Yep. Heard that one before. Did I say it was a rented building? When you read the Bible the folks in that day gatjered together not only in sprit, but in body. I am not angry at you, but I do get angry at folks who say, "well. The Church isn't a building!" of course its not, but the Body of Christ (the church) physically came together and met for the purposes of worship. Paul demanded leadership and a sense of order. Makes no difference whether it was in a rented hall, a bought building, under an old oak tree or Wrigley Field. The fact is the church was the Body of Christ and they went to "church" which was a gathering.

Bottom line: No the Bible is not God. But it is his word and his written down plan. It points us to God and nothing else does it better.

"Church" is the Body of Christ: his folowers. His sheep. But they gather together in a body in one place. There are rules (so to speak) about how this is done. There is leadership and order.

 

[FHII]

See thats why there is so much division

Jesus said he came not to bring peace, but division.

what do you think Jesus died for, to give men a book to confuse the world, doesnt the bible say that God is not the author of confusion,

You are looking at just one verse. Why did Jesus speak in parables? The answer is to confound the mighty.

Men came to Christ without teh bible and have done so for a good many years,

Read my reply to Mygrace about Abraham.

God can live without teh bible it is men that cant.

Yes, that's right! God can but men can't! God consoled ith himself because he wanted to talk withsome on his own level. To us, he gave the Bible: his holy men moved by the spirit.

And yet here you are still no life because you wont go to Him.

I don't put up with that kind of garbage. Watch where you step. Did I insult you? Did I say you have no life? Don't do it to me.

do you want to know Christ, go talk to Him, do you want to know teh bible, read it.

Actually I want to Christ to talk to me. Yes I want to talk ro Christ, but I would rather talk with him. But... I'd rather him talk to me than me talk to him.

He wrote me a letter once. And three days a week I go to hear what he has to say through his ambassador.

That's enough for me. I suppose I don't need God to talk directly to me. Guess he sees me as strong enough in faith that his written word and appointed fellow men are enough.

 

[Job]

In short, if call on his name you shall be saved. You can't call on him unless you have heard him. Faith comes by hearing. You can't hear him without a preacher.

In 40 years I've probably attended church maybe 10 times. And those weren't consecutive Sundays.

Going on what you posted and my reply, what do you believe my spiritual condition to be?

 

[mjrhealth]

Yes, that's right! God can but men can't! God consoled ith himself because he wanted to talk withsome on his own level. To us, he gave the Bible: his holy men moved by the spirit.

I guess you missed Saul

Php_3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ

or this bit

Gal_1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

But that all requres faith.

You are looking at just one verse. Why did Jesus speak in parables? The answer is to confound the mighty.

Amen to that and still the learned men are confounded.

Mat_11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

God never wrote the bible, how many versions of God do you want, I only know of one.

Mat_17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

 

[FHII]

In 40 years I've probably attended church maybe 10 times. And those weren't consecutive Sundays.

Going on what you posted and my reply, what do you believe my spiritual condition to be?

Well what do you believe it to be? I ask because I didn't see you disagreeing with the scripture I gave.

Job, I doubt you were just fumbling through you parents library, never hearing of Jesus, and then happened upon the Bible.

Somebody probably told you about him and mentioned the bible. Then, you picked it up. The guy who told you about Jesus may have been a bonafide idiot and may have been a castaway himself. But he was smart enough to point you in a direction that got the job done (i love puns, but no oun intended)

Maybe that was just enough preaching for you.

But the verse says what it says. Are you asking me or youself?

I don't question anothers path. Mygrace is tellimg me God told him/her not to read the Bible for a year. For alk I can see Mjrhealth seems to say God says he doesnt need the Bible or a preacher at all cause God talks directly to hin.

Bottom line is thay I am not going to judge you at all by how many times you've heard a preacher or been to Church. Thats your business with God. But the scripture says it has to happen. Right now, That's my only point.

 

[FHII]

I guess you missed Sau

No, I missed Mjrhealth. That epistle I didn't read.

Paul was speking of his educatiin as a pharisee. Also as a jew. It wasn't going to get him into heaven. But he spoke 3 languages and new the customs of many poeples. He could also read and write and that aided him mightly. Or... Didn't it matter? Did not use his talents?

The dung was the law. It wasn't going to make him perfect.

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

.cherry picker! Why did John write it to them then? I am not like catholics who can't answer adequately. I can answer: he wrote it to stir up their minds. And the Holy ghost, by the way, wad teaching them all things... Through a man. John was his name..

But that all requres faith.

Fith comes by hearing. And how can you hear without a preacher?

 

[FHII]

Mjrhealth,

Let me take a page out our brother's Job paybook. Are you saying we don't need a Bible nor a preacher? Cause I came to God through both. Are you saying that such cannot lead us to God?

Are you saying that my fellowship ib person with others at Church is in vain?

 

[mjrhealth]

Fith comes by hearing. And how can you hear without a preacher?

We hear His voice this bit

Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

All who come to Christ are given teh same spirit of God, this one,

Joh_15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

and after pentecost when teh new wine, teh Holy Spirit was come,

Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

As to what you do with Him is up to you. He was not given as a trophy to put up on a shelf. You have Christ and If you have Christ than you can talk to Him and He can talk to you. But that takes faith. Remember the Israelites complaining after God took them out of egypt, well God does not desire His children remain there but thats the place many prefer.

Rev_3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.


So you see you need to know His voice and follow Him, and be called an idiot and fool for His sake, Is He not worth teh price.

 

[mjrhealth]

Are you saying that my fellowship ib person with others at Church is in vain?

Depends on what you want Jesus or church, which one does teh saving.

 

[mjrhealth]

.cherry picker! Why did John write it to them then? I am not like catholics who can't answer adequately. I can answer: he wrote it to stir up their minds. And the Holy ghost, by the way, wad teaching them all things... Through a man. John was his name.

I dont pick cheerries if you want to know Jesus, than listen to Him, if you want to know the bible, than read it, but than dont get upset when others hear Him and you dont, it is your choosing not His.

 

[mjrhealth]

The dung was the law. It wasn't going to make him perfect.

Actually it was everything He was what, a Pharisee of Pharisees. Yep, yet He didnt know Jesus.

Act 22:8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.

Agin if you want to follow men, that is your perogative, but you wont be able to blame them when things go wrong on that day of judgment.

 

[Job]

Let me take a page out our brother's Job paybook. Are you saying we don't need a Bible nor a preacher?

I don't recall saying that. Perhaps you could refresh my memory.

 

[Job]

Somebody probably told you about him and mentioned the bible.

Not really. I started this journey all on my own. I know that sounds ridiculous but it's true.

 

[Job]

Fith comes by hearing. And how can you hear without a preacher?

You open your bible and read.

 

[mjrhealth]

Not really. I started this journey all on my own. I know that sounds ridiculous but it's true.

I never started mine alone He started it.