Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
As I said, the response of the person is a different matter from the matters of conviction and conversion.
In Psalm 51, David was convicted of his sin of adultery and confessed to the Lord, "For I know my transgressions, and my sin is ever before me. Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight" (Psalm 51:3-4). He saw his sin as ultimately against God and worthy of judgment. He repented and asked for God's mercy as a result.
It's a matter of definition Renniks. In my definition, I would not say that God is out of control of some things and that God is not in complete control of His creation, as you must have to say in yours.
Of course it's God who saves. I just said that.
That's quite a silly statement to say ~ "I can't decide where to be born". But it's good that you said that anyway. And here's my silly statement, "I don't get to decide if I be born or not." Silly as they may sound, both are true. Since you mentioned about birth, the second birth came to mind. That's the salvation of God. As Jesus Himself said, unless the man be born again he cannot see nor enter the kingdom of God. It's silly that while it is easy for even the natural man to understand, recognize, and acknowledge that man could not decide to be born and where to be born regarding one's birth into the kingdom of this world, many Christians seems to find it very difficult, some even find it irrational, for that to be true in the second birth, regarding birth into the kingdom of God.
Renniks: No, it's not by man's will, but being willing is a condition God has set for salvation.
You need to familiarize yourself with the quotation function. You simply highly what needs to be quoted and "Reply".
This passage (John 16:8) explicitly says the Holy Spirit will be working on the WORLD (which is a group larger than just those who eventually become believers). And this work of the Spirit is tied to salvation and leading people to Christ. If individual election were true, then the Spirit’s work described here would only be towards a few preselected elect. But that is not what the text says. This work of the Spirit is aimed at ‘the world.’ This passage also goes very well with John 3:16.
No, you are not understanding. God can set any condition he likes for salvation. If he decided that only redheads could be saved, that would be his prerogative. But what we are told over and over again in scripture is that belief is the condition for salvation. God saves, but he requires a response to his leading before he will do the work of salvation.
So, you are saying we must be born again before we can be born again? This is just Calvinists' foolishness. Belief always precedes salvation in the Word.
Man is not flesh only and man's spirit can respond to the Spirit of God.
My post, to which you responded to, does not say anything about the issue of the word "world" nor of individual election. So, I don't know what is your point in bringing those up here. Besides, I have already addressed the issue of the word "world" in John 16:8.
You said "it's not by man's will, but being willing is a condition God has set for salvation." What do I not understand in your statement about salvation, that is, "it's not by man's will"? That's very clear. And then you say, man should be willing, which you say is a condition set by God. That sure contradicts your statement, at least in my understanding.
No I am not saying that nor did I say that.
My post does not say anything about the issue that man is not only flesh or the spirit of man can respond to God.
Prove it. You just made a statement about the conviction being different, but you did not show that to be true. Nothing to rebut because you are just making stuff up.
Man doesn't cause his salvation by being willing, but God will not save those who are not willing. Pretty simple.
Genesis 3:15 is a prophecy about Christ. And about how he will defeat Satan at the cross. It's about salvation in that way. Of course we must be born again, and that first requires belief. I see no contradiction. God gathers those who believe. Jesus gives to the father those who choose to listen and follow Jesus. He"who has ears let him hear." Meaning we have to listen in order to follow. Ever notice that we can at times make ourselves unable to hear the Spirit? We can distract ourselves with worries or fear or just spiritual laziness, and drown him out. God rarely shouts. It's the same before salvation. We can shut down our ears are refuse to listen to his conviction., We will never become saved until we let go of that pride that blinds and deafens us.
