So why are they removed from the Lord's kingdom?

[shilohsfoal]

They went up in a cloud, and it doesn't say smoke as you claim

Please post scripture to support your claims

Revelation 11:12KJV
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

A cloud of smoke is still a cloud. Let us take note that scripture states it is smoke that rises from Babylon.It's not the white fluffy cloud that you thought. She is on fire when those two prophets rise.

Revelation 18:18 and cry out at the sight of the smoke rising from the fire that consumes her. "What city was ever like this great city?" they will exclaim.

 

[shilohsfoal]

I Disagree, post scripture to support your claims, waiting

Revelation 11:8 Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city--figuratively called Sodom and Egypt--where their Lord was also crucified.

Scripture shows they are in the prostitute.
They are not in any other city.

 

[shilohsfoal]

This is an old study that I did

Who and what are the two witnesses?

Could the two witnesses be symbolic of the prophets and the law which point to Jesus. Why does God call them the two witnesses? Why the term witness? That means that they had to witness something. Is it because they witnesses and pointed to Jesus?

It took two witnesses to witness a testimony and two witnesses to witness a crime. Could the testimony be about who Jesus is and the crime be what Israel was guilty of?

Mosses represents the law and like the witnesses turned water into blood and struck the earth with all types of plagues. Elijah represents the prophets and like the witnesses he could shut the sky up so that it couldn’t rain and had fire devour his enemies. These two are the two olive trees and are also the two golden lamp stands the two anointed ones that stand before the lord. This is referred to in Zechariah chapter 4 and Jesus is also the anointed one.

Could the fire out of there mouths be the word of God that has power to condemn and convict. They are also dressed in sackcloth which represents repentance. Jews reading this would understand the meanings.

They mirror Jesus’ life as they also have a 3 ½ year ministry and can’t be killed until there time has come. They are killed by the beast (which I believe is a demon behind the power of Rome) and Rome also killed Jesus. They are killed in Jerusalem just like Jesus was. They are also dead for 3 ½ days like Jesus was and they are raised back to life and go up to heaven. Both Jesus and the two witnesses had earthquakes around the time of there death and there was also an earthquake when Jesus rose back to life.

Why is it 7000 people that died in the earthquake? Why the number 7000? Is it because 7 is the number of completeness and perfection to God and 1000 means many. It also says in Revelation 11:13 that people gave glory to God after the earthquake just like some people realized that Jesus was the son of God after the earthquake when Jesus died.

Why is Jerusalem also called Sodom and Egypt in Revelation 11:8. Because Sodom represents the morality of Jerusalem and Egypt represents the oppression of Jerusalem.

These two witnesses torment people with the word of God as there words torment and convicts people just like Jesus words did. The Pharisees were happy when Jesus died because he exposed them for who they were and they may of even gave gifts to one another when they celebrated His death.

Revelation is the unveiling of Jesus and these two witnesses help to reveal to us who Jesus is.

They mirrow Jesus life?
My goodness.

Are you testifying that Jesus tormented and killed people for 3.5 years?

Revelation 11:10 And those who dwell on the earth will gloat over them, and will celebrate and send one another gifts, because these two prophets had tormented them.

I can't believe you think these two prophets are anything like Jesus. They do the exact opposite of everything Jesus taught and did.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Now the prostitute, who these two prophets spent thier time with for those 42 months is given the cup of the wrath of God.

Revelation 16:19 The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. And God remembered Babylon the great and gave her the cup of the wine of the fury of His wrath.

Scripture shows that this cup of God's wrath is given to anyone who worships the beast or recieves its mark.

Revelation 14:9 And a third angel followed them, calling out in a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Revelation 14:10 he too will drink the wine of God's anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

So they spent 3.5 years with the prostitute, and then she is given the cup of the wrath of God for receiving the mark of the beast. And who was it that deceived her?None other than the prophet that speaks lies.

Revelation 19:20 But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on its behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

 

[Marty fox]

They mirrow Jesus life?
My goodness.

Are you testifying that Jesus tormented and killed people for 3.5 years?

Revelation 11:10 And those who dwell on the earth will gloat over them, and will celebrate and send one another gifts, because these two prophets had tormented them.

I can't believe you think these two prophets are anything like Jesus. They do the exact opposite of everything Jesus taught and did.

If you reread it you will see that I explain what I mean.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Keep in mind, the two witnesses ascend into heaven in a cloud. There are not many clouds that ascend into heaven

Consider “there are not many clouds that ascend into heaven” I can only think of one cloud that ascends into heaven “a great cloud of witnesses” in Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Does so great a cloud of witnesses ascend up to heaven in a cloud, hearing a voice from heaven “come up here”

Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

what is “witnesses” unless they give a witness that “their enemies beheld”?

 

[shilohsfoal]

Consider “there are not many clouds that ascend into heaven” I can only think of one cloud that ascends into heaven “a great cloud of witnesses” in Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Does so great a cloud of witnesses ascend up to heaven in a cloud, hearing a voice from heaven “come up here”

Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

what is “witnesses” unless they give a witness that “their enemies beheld”?

I don't see where Paul says anything about a cloud ascending into heaven. Are you saying the apostles ascended onto heaven like Jesus?
You can't think of any other cloud that ascends into heaven on the day of the Lord?

Revelation 6:12 KJV: And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Revelation 6:13 KJV: And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Revelation 6:14 KJV: And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

I think John did an outstanding job describing what he saw.I can see why Jesus chose him for this job.

While many in Judea flee to the mountains to hide in the dens beside the rocks, and those who followed the Lamb are having thier fathers name sealed in thier foreheads, The two prophets ascend in to heaven in a cloud.

 

[Truth7t7]

Your strongly disagree that they were in Jerusalem?
Scripture shows they were in the prostitute when they died.There's no disputing it.

Revelation 11:8 Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city--figuratively called Sodom and Egypt--where their Lord was also crucified.

Yes the whore is the great city Jerusalem, just as Revelation 11:8 states, where Jesus was crucified, we have run about the bush several times on this, dead horse

 

[Truth7t7]

Now your saying a cloud of smoke is not a cloud?
From what I've read of the prostitute, people see smoke coming from Babylon.

This also is now a dead horse, we have run about the bush several times

They went up in a cloud, and it doesn't say smoke as you claim

Please post scripture to support your claims

Revelation 11:12KJV
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

 

[Truth7t7]

A cloud of smoke is still a cloud. Let us take note that scripture states it is smoke that rises from Babylon.It's not the white fluffy cloud that you thought. She is on fire when those two prophets rise.

Revelation 18:18 and cry out at the sight of the smoke rising from the fire that consumes her. "What city was ever like this great city?" they will exclaim.

I Disagree, dead horse

 

[Truth7t7]

Now the prostitute, who these two prophets spent thier time with for those 42 months is given the cup of the wrath of God.

Revelation 16:19 The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. And God remembered Babylon the great and gave her the cup of the wine of the fury of His wrath.

Scripture shows that this cup of God's wrath is given to anyone who worships the beast or recieves its mark.

Revelation 14:9 And a third angel followed them, calling out in a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Revelation 14:10 he too will drink the wine of God's anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

So they spent 3.5 years with the prostitute, and then she is given the cup of the wrath of God for receiving the mark of the beast. And who was it that deceived her?None other than the prophet that speaks lies.

Revelation 19:20 But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on its behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

I Strongly Disagree With Your Claims

Jerusalem is the whore mystery Babylon, the two witnesses are prophets of God that ascend to heaven in a fluffy cloud like Jesus at the ascension

Horse is dead

 

[shilohsfoal]

I Strongly Disagree With Your Claims

Jerusalem is the whore mystery Babylon, the two witnesses are prophets of God that ascend to heaven in a fluffy cloud like Jesus at the ascension

Horse is dead

And the two witnesses spend 3.5 years in the whore. You claim the smoke of Babylon burning is a fluffy white cloud. I'd say it's full of sulfer and ashes.

Revelation 18:9 Then the kings of the earth who committed sexual immorality and lived in luxury with her will weep and wail at the sight of the smoke rising from the fire that consumes her.

 

[Truth7t7]

Considering Revelation is a book of symbolism, the two prophets are witness to truth of God; the same truth Satan attempted to misrepresent.....it doesn't make them men. Truth torments and it kills when it is rejected....for example, turn on a light and it kills the darkness.....another, deceptive activity tortures its proponent when exposed. Consider Ananias and Sapphira; they hatched a plan to conceal certain facts when they needn't have. Exposure to themselves was too much to bear; they had heart failure.

Scripture clearly teaches in Revelation chapter 11 that the (Two Witnesses) have literal bodies that die, lay dead in a literal Jerusalem street, and they are literally raised from the dead to heaven, as a literal world watches

 

[shilohsfoal]

Scripture clearly teaches in Revelation chapter 11 that the (Two Witnesses) have literal bodies that die, lay dead in a literal Jerusalem street, and they are literally raised from the dead to heaven, as a literal world watches

Now you acknowledge those two prophets lay dead in the prostitute. They spend 42 months in that prostitute while she is worshiping the image of the beast and receiving its mark.
They did a fine job of misleading that Ole girl.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

According to Paul, they would become immortal at the sound of the last trump. But as we see, those two prophets went up in smoke before the sound of the last trump.

Revelation 11:1-13 is a parenthetical section in Revelation. It's not correct to interpret Revelation 11:14-18 as if what is described there chronologically follows what is described in Revelation 11:1-13. No, Revelation 11:14 picks up where Revelation 9:21 left off. The second woe is the sixth trumpet, which is not described in Revelation 11:1-13, but rather is described in Revelation 9:13-21. The second woe is past as of Revelation 9:21, not Revelation 11:13.

Revelation 10 and Revelation 11:1-13 are parenthetical passages rather than describing events in chronological order following the end of Revelation 9. The events recorded in the book of Revelation are not all meant to be interpreted chronologically from beginning to end as you seem to be doing.

 

[Truth7t7]

Revelation 11:1-13 is a parenthetical section in Revelation. It's not correct to interpret Revelation 11:14-18 as if what is described there chronologically follows what is described in Revelation 11:1-13. No, Revelation 11:14 picks up where Revelation 9:21 left off. The second woe is the sixth trumpet, which is not described in Revelation 11:1-13, but rather is described in Revelation 9:13-21. The second woe is past as of Revelation 9:21, not Revelation 11:13.

Revelation 10 and Revelation 11:1-13 are parenthetical passages rather than describing events in chronological order following the end of Revelation 9. The events recorded in the book of Revelation are not all meant to be interpreted chronologically from beginning to end as you seem to be doing.

I Agree 100%

The Revelation is written in parallel teachings of same events, not chronologically

Example: Revelation 11:18 & Revelation 20:11-15 is the same final judgement in parallel teachings

Revelation chapters 16, 19, 20, same final battle in parallel teachings

 

[shilohsfoal]

Revelation 11:1-13 is a parenthetical section in Revelation. It's not correct to interpret Revelation 11:14-18 as if what is described there chronologically follows what is described in Revelation 11:1-13. No, Revelation 11:14 picks up where Revelation 9:21 left off. The second woe is the sixth trumpet, which is not described in Revelation 11:1-13, but rather is described in Revelation 9:13-21. The second woe is past as of Revelation 9:21, not Revelation 11:13.

Revelation 10 and Revelation 11:1-13 are parenthetical passages rather than describing events in chronological order following the end of Revelation 9. The events recorded in the book of Revelation are not all meant to be interpreted chronologically from beginning to end as you seem to be doing.

So you are saying the text given in that chapter is incorrect?
You claim the 3rd woe is before the 2nd woe.

Revelation 11:14 The second woe has passed. Behold, the third woe is coming shortly.

My goodness, you are so backwards.
I think the Lord got it right and your just acting crazy.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Scripture clearly teaches in Revelation chapter 11 that the (Two Witnesses) have literal bodies that die, lay dead in a literal Jerusalem street, and they are literally raised from the dead to heaven, as a literal world watches

If the two witnesses are two human beings then in what sense are they two olive trees and two candlesticks/lampstands? Earlier in the book candlesticks symbolically represent churches, so why would they then represent human beings in Revelation 11? What do olive trees represent in Romans 11? Not individual human beings. So, these things need to be taken into consideration.

Also, it has to be taken into consideration that the Lord was NOT crucified in Jerusalem.

Hebrews 13:11 The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. 12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

John 19:19 Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross. It read: jesus of nazareth, the king of the jews. 20 Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek.

So, the place that is spiritually called "Sodom and Egypt" where the Lord was crucified is the earth or this world. I believe the two witnesses symbolically represent the church (two olive trees and two candlesticks represent Jew and Gentile believers preaching the gospel) and the death of the two witnesses represents the temporary end of the gospel being preached powerfully throughout the world through the church because of an increase in wickedness and a mass falling away from the faith (see 2nd Thess 2). The witness of the church is largely silenced for a symbolic 3.5 days (representing Satan's little season) and then the end comes at the seventh and last trumpet when all Christ's people are caught up to Him and all of His enemies are destroyed.

 

[shilohsfoal]

I Agree 100%

The Revelation is written in parallel teachings of same events, not chronologically

Example: Revelation 11:18 & Revelation 20:11-15 is the same final judgement in parallel teachings

Revelation chapters 16, 19, 20, same final battle in parallel teachings

You believe the 3rd woe is before the 2nd woe as well huh?

Revelation 11:14 The second woe has passed. Behold, the third woe is coming shortly.

Guy's, I remember learning in preschool that second comes before third.Im sure theLord got this right.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I Agree 100%

The Revelation is written in parallel teachings of same events, not chronologically

Example: Revelation 11:18 & Revelation 20:11-15 is the same final judgement in parallel teachings

Revelation chapters 16, 19, 20, same final battle in parallel teachings

I agree. When people interpret the entire book (or most of the book) chronologically it leads to all kinds of nonsensical conclusions. The time of the final wrath of God and judgment of the dead is said to have come at the seventh trumpet, so how can everything written after Revelation 11 follow that? It can't. That makes no sense. The book of Revelation gives us pictures of the same events from different angles and is not all (or mostly) chronological as many people mistakenly believe.