Spiritual death is by sinning. Bodily death is by nature.

[Ghada]

The Bible says the soul that sins shall die. Adam died that day he sinned. By sinning we separate ourselves from God. Spiritual death passes upon all men that sin. Spiritual death has therefore passed upon all men, for all men (save one) have sinned.

It's the soul that sins with the body, not the body sinning with the soul. It's the soul that dies apart from God by sinning, not the body.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth.

These verses are written after Jesus came in the flesh of all men.

No exceptions of bodily death are made for Jesus nor Adam. It was appointed by God unto all men from the beginning, to die naturally with mortal bodies. The same is for all of God's natural made and born creatures on earth.

To a person, every Christian intermixing the two kinds of death, spiritual and natural, also preach a gospel of sinning some days without dying to God that day, as did Adam.

 

[amadeus]

The Bible says the soul that sins shall die. Adam died that day he sinned. By sinning we separate ourselves from God. Spiritual death passes upon all men that sin. Spiritual death has therefore passed upon all men, for all men (save one) have sinned.

It's the soul that sins with the body, not the body sinning with the soul. It's the soul that dies apart from God by sinning, not the body.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth.

These verses are written after Jesus came in the flesh of all men.

No exceptions of bodily death are made for Jesus nor Adam. It was appointed by God unto all men from the beginning, to die naturally with mortal bodies. The same is for all of God's natural made and born creatures on earth.

To a person, every Christian intermixing the two kinds of death, spiritual and natural, also preach a gospel of sinning some days without dying to God that day, as did Adam.

Here Jesus speaks of both types of dead:

Mt 8:22

But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

 

[Jay Ross]

The Bible says the soul that sins shall die.

No, Genesis 2:17 states that those that sin "shall die the second death." What this verse does not tell us is when the sinner will die the second death?

Adam died that day he sinned.

No, the Genesis account does not tell us this, because God still came into the Garden to seek out Adam and Eve.

By sinning we separate ourselves from God.

When we sin, we place a barrier between us and God. The Genesis account confirms this because both Adam and Eve hides from God after realising that they had sinned.

Spiritual death passes upon all men that sin. Spiritual death has therefore passed upon all men, for all men (save one) have sinned.

No, that is a man generated point of view.

What is passed on now from father/mother to son/daughter is the "Knowledge of Good and Evil," Mankind still retains his spirit. the redemptions that has now been put in place is the re-establishment of our spiritual connection with God.

What does this look like? Paul in Ephesians 4 tells us this: -

20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the refurbished man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.​

It sounds very easy to do, but our old self fights against the putting on of the refurbished man that God has always intended mankind to be.

To do this is like being born again, in that we need to learn again and apply God's truths in our lives, allowing God to correct that which is not right in our minds so that we become fully cleansed in both mind and spirit such that we become one in Christ.

Shalom

 

[Ghada]

No,

Yes.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Genesis 2:17 states that those that sin "shall die the second death."

No.

For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

What this verse does not tell us is when the sinner will die the second death?

For in the day that thou eatest thereof...

No, the Genesis account does not tell us this,

For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The God of the Bible is not a liar. He even says so.

That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie...

because God still came into the Garden to seek out Adam and Eve.

Which shows another kind of death, which is revealed as separation from God's Spirit of life, by which man is a living soul, and not a dead one.

When we sin, we place a barrier between us and God.

God calls it death of the soul separated from Him and His Spirit.

The Genesis account confirms this because both Adam and Eve hides from God after realising that they had sinned.

That's the active result of shame in being dead to God.

No, that is a man generated point of view.

God inspired. Men make themselves dead to God without His fellowship by sinning against Him, not by inheriting sin and death in the womb.

What is passed on now from father/mother to son/daughter is the "Knowledge of Good and Evil,"

Only when told of it and comprehended as a child.

And that's only head knowledge. Bible knowing of good and evil is by doing it, even as Adam knew Eve by doing it with Eve.

No child nor man knows any evil nor good with God, until they do it.

Mankind still retains his spirit.

And soul.

the redemptions that has now been put in place is the re-establishment of our spiritual connection with God.

True. It's called repenting of sinning and beleiving Jesus with reconciliation to God. All the past life is now done away, and all the heart and life is now with God and of God. Even as with Adam before transgression.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

It sounds very easy to do,

Once we repent it becomes easy in Christ Jesus.

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

but our old self fights against the putting on of the refurbished man

Not if the old self and life is crucified and dead on our own cross for Jesus' sake.

Repenting with God is instant repenting of all our sins and transgressions. That's when He gives us a whole new heart and life in the image of His dear Son.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God,

Many have Christian religion of a progressive sort, that don't believe in the whole new instant conversion of the sons of God.

That's just because they don't ever repent of all sinning, but just some eventually.

that God has always intended mankind to be.

What we do have to fight is tempting thoughts from the devil to lust and sin again. We keep our hearts clean of lust, once God has cleansed us in His Son's blood.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

To do this is like being born again, in that we need to learn again and apply God's truths in our lives, allowing God to correct that which is not right in our minds so that we become fully cleansed in both mind and spirit such that we become one in Christ.

True. By repenting of sinning first, and growing in the knowledge of God with a pure heart and life.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

'Growing' to learn to sin less, is for Christian religion, not for repented sons of God in the pure religion of Jesus Christ.

Shalom

Amen.

P.s. the second death is when one once born again of God and wholly escaped the sinning of the world, returns to willfully sinning without repentance. It's the sure way of ending with the second death of the lake of fire after judgment of works.

 

[Ghada]

Here Jesus speaks of both types of dead:

Mt 8:22

But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Beautiful. The words of God are great in wise pith. So are accurate teachers of His words.

You.

Dead souls burying dead bodies. (Not that burying dead bodies is bad)

 

[Jay Ross]

Yes.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.




No.

For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.




For in the day that thou eatest thereof...



For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The God of the Bible is not a liar. He even says so.

That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie...


Which shows another kind of death, which is revealed as separation from God's Spirit of life, by which man is a living soul, and not a dead one.





God calls it death of the soul separated from Him and His Spirit.


That's the active result of shame in being dead to God.


God inspired. Men make themselves dead to God without His fellowship by sinning against Him, not by inheriting sin and death in the womb.


Only when told of it and comprehended as a child.

And that's only head knowledge. Bible knowing of good and evil is by doing it, even as Adam knew Eve by doing it with Eve.

No child nor man knows any evil nor good with God, until they do it.

And soul.



True. It's called repenting of sinning and beleiving Jesus with reconciliation to God. All the past life is now done away, and all the heart and life is now with God and of God. Even as with Adam before transgression.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Once we repent it becomes easy in Christ Jesus.

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


Not if the old self and life is crucified and dead on our own cross for Jesus' sake.

Repenting with God is instant repenting of all our sins and transgressions. That's when He gives us a whole new heart and life in the image of His dear Son.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God,

Many have Christian religion of a progressive sort, that don't believe in the whole new instant conversion of the sons of God.

That's just because they don't ever repent of all sinning, but just some eventually.


What we do have to fight is tempting thoughts from the devil to lust and sin again. We keep our hearts clean of lust, once God has cleansed us in His Son's blood.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


True. By repenting of sinning first, and growing in the knowledge of God with a pure heart and life.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

'Growing' to learn to sin less, is for Christian religion, not for repented sons of God in the pure religion of Jesus Christ.


Amen.

P.s. the second death is when one once born again of God and wholly escaped the sinning of the world, returns to willfully sinning without repentance. It's the sure way of ending with the second death of the lake of fire after judgment of works.

Believe what you want too, but the consequences of sinning have not changed from the time of Adam and eve. Sadly the "so called technical translation" is "shall die" but the Hebrew text actually state "die the second death" which is very different.

Oh well, so be it.

 

[quietthinker]

Spiritual death is by sinning. Bodily death is by nature.​

Babies die, animals die, plants die.....neither have sinned.

 

[amadeus]

P.s. the second death is when one once born again of God and wholly escaped the sinning of the world, returns to willfully sinning without repentance. It's the sure way of ending with the second death of the lake of fire after judgment of works.

Amen... Not many on this forum will agree with you on this. Carry on in the Spirit!

 

[Pearl]

We are all spiritually dead until we receive/accept Jesus and are born again of the spirit because His Spirit comes and lives within us. Then we are spiritually alive. We were once dead because of our sin but he puts his life into us.

 

[Ghada]

We are all spiritually dead until we receive/accept Jesus and are born again of the spirit because His Spirit comes and lives within us. Then we are spiritually alive. We were once dead because of our sin but he puts his life into us.

All that sinning are spiritual dead. All that are sinning at death are spiritually dead forever.

Spiritual death passes upon all men that sin. Natural death passes upon all flesh naturally.

 

[Pearl]

All that sinning are spiritual dead. All that are sinning at death are spiritually dead forever.

Spiritual death passes upon all men that sin. Natural death passes upon all flesh naturally.

All those who do not accept/receive Jesus as spiritually dead. All those who are born again are alive in Christ.

Romans 6

Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ​

What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

 

[Ghada]

All those who do not accept/receive Jesus as spiritually dead

Because they are still sinning and not repented of sinning to receive Him.

. All those who are born again are alive in Christ.

And not sinning against Him.

I'm just giving your doctrine of theory some good ol' meat bones of works and deeds.

Anyone can talk about being alive or dead, being spiritual or not, receiving this or accepting that.

But what we are doing is strong meat indeed, because our works are what the Father judges. Not our doctrinal theory talk.

 

[Pearl]

Because they are still sinning and not repented of sinning to receive Him.



And not sinning against Him.

I'm just giving your doctrine of theory some good ol' meat bones of works and deeds.

Anyone can talk about being alive or dead, being spiritual or not, receiving this or accepting that.

But what we are doing is strong meat indeed, because our works are what the Father judges. Not our doctrinal theory talk.

We either live in Sin, no matter how good we are because Sin is the state of being separated from God. Once we accept Jesus as our Saviour we no longer live in Sin because we have been reconciled to God and are now spiritually re-born into His family and are heirs with Jesus who we can now call brother.

No matter how nice we are or how caring we are, without God we are living a sinful life. After our spiritual re-birth we may commit sins/misdemeanours but whereas in our pre rebirth state we don't see our sins as sins, this all changes when we are created anew because then we recognise our sins. We do not need a bath as Jesus told Simon Peter but we do need our feet washing to remove the grime of living in a fallen world.

John 13:6-10​

Jesus Washes His Disciples’ Feet​

He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, “Lord, are you going to wash my feet?”
Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.”
“No,” said Peter, “you shall never wash my feet.”
Jesus answered, “Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.”
“Then, Lord,” Simon Peter replied, “not just my feet but my hands and my head as well!”
Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean.”

 

[Ghada]

Believe what you want too, but the consequences of sinning have not changed from the time of Adam and eve.

No one here is saying so. Let's try to keep accurate and not get personal.

Sadly the "son called technical translation" is "shall die" but the Hebrew text actually state "die the second death" which is very different.

You need to first make your argument clear, for an accurate and fair response to it.

If you are saying the second death includes the righteous turning from their righteousness in the OT, then I don't agree.

No man is born unrighteous, even though all men have done unrighteousness.

The second death is specially reserved in the NT for those repenting and born of God, and turning back to unrepented sinning again. They can no longer renew the old repentance with God to be born again. They willfully fall away from God with no conviction of the Spirit to return to repentance and faith toward God. (Jude) (Heb 6)

The second death is also for the wicked dead, that died in their sins, and so are judged by the works without their names in the book of Life, and are cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death for condemned angels and men.

but the Hebrew text actually state "die the second death" which is very different.

Original language arguments do not prove doctrine of the Bible. They can be a help, but not a sole proof. If we can't prove something in the Bible from our own simple translation, then it isn't provable by trying to force the issue with 'original text' arguments.

In any case, I took a quick look at the Hebrew, and it has nothing to do with 'second' death. IN fact, there is no teaching in the OT about a second death. Also, there is no Bible Hebrew nor Greek single word for 'second' death. It is always a two word proposition, such as it shall die again.

I knew that was the case for the Greek, and now I also know it's the case for the Hebrew.

In any case, any one sinning is dead to God.

 

[Jay Ross]

No one here is saying so. Let's try to keep accurate and not get personal.

Why was this statement personal against you. You are claiming that your understanding about the second death is accurate, and I was pointing out that the Genesis 2:17 tells us that if we sin, many of mankind become a candidate for the second death when they do not repent of their sin(s).

You need to first make your argument clear, for an accurate and fair response to it.

If you are saying the second death includes the righteous turning from their righteousness in the OT, then I don't agree.

No man is born unrighteous, even though all men have done unrighteousness.

The second death is specially reserved in the NT for those repenting and born of God, and turning back to unrepented sinning again. They can no longer renew the old repentance with God to be born again. They willfully fall away from God with no conviction of the Spirit to return to repentance and faith toward God. (Jude) (Heb 6)

The second death is also for the wicked dead, that died in their sins, and so are judged by the works without their names in the book of Life, and are cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death for condemned angels and men.

Where do I start to correct the errors in this quoted portion of your post above.

What this quote is suggesting is that God is not the same today and that he is very different in the past and that the past does not apply to today's sinning.

Original language arguments do not prove doctrine of the Bible. They can be a help, but not a sole proof. If we can't prove something in the Bible from our own simple translation, then it isn't provable by trying to force the issue with 'original text' arguments.

Really, since most doctrine of the Bible is man generated, how could I argument against that when I actually use God's intended context in stating what Gen 2:17 actually states.

In any case, I took a quick look at the Hebrew, and it has nothing to do with 'second' death. IN fact, there is no teaching in the OT about a second death. Also, there is no Bible Hebrew nor Greek single word for 'second' death. It is always a two word proposition, such as it shall die again.

I knew that was the case for the Greek, and now I also know it's the case for the Hebrew.

In any case, any one sinning is dead to God.

How about Ezekiel 18, it teaches about the consequences of the second death. As for the claim that there is no single word which references the second death to be found in either the OT or the NT because you claim that it is a two-word proposition.

Or in the NT when Jesus made this statement: -

John 8:51: - Truly, truly, I tell you, if anyone keeps My word, he will never see death.”​

In this verse what death was Jesus referring too? Here is the Interlinear from Bible Hub for this verse: -



I would suggest to you that Jesus was referring to the Second death in this verse. Was Jesu stating that someone who keeps his words will not die a physical death for some 3,000-years? But you have claimed that it must be expressed as two words. I believe that this verse disproves your rational and is using just one word for the second death.

Oh well you have proved the value of your opinions.

Good day now. Have a good nights sleeps to ponder your dilemma. Nothing personal here, just for the record.

The Second Death is referred to many time in the NT