Spotting the Heretic

[Taken]

Spotting the Heretic
OP ^

Regarding Religion, particularly Christianity...a heretic is one who does not agree with the Majority of a Religious Sect.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Behold]

Repenting is just turning around to go back in the right direction and away from sin. When I fall short, I DO repent and tell Him how sorry I am to have grieved His Spirit. and I just thank Him for the forgiveness He has already given me 2000 years ago. Then I pray to have the self control, and patience that the fruit of the Spirit produces.

Well, according to how you are explaining your "repenting", you are not repenting of the sin..but rather the recognition that you didn't do it right..whatever that was....
In other words, you understand that the behavior fell short and you want to correct that.. but this not the same as.. "well, i sinned, so now i have to get that off me, my salvation and fellowship with God is ruined until i do..... and the only way to do that is to repent and THEN God washes it away AGAIN, and im forgiven for it, AGAIN.....and again..............>.
So, that is wrong Kind of "repenting"... As that person does not understand that "sin" is on Jesus and Righteousness has replaced it.
What you are doing, is just trying to have a very honest relationship with Christ and God, having understood that they have your sin taken care of, 2000 yrs ago.

 

[Behold]

Spotting the Heretic
OP ^
Regarding Religion, particularly Christianity...a heretic is one who does not agree with the Majority of a Religious Sect.

Glory to God, Taken

A heretic, is defined by Paul, in Galatians.
Its a person who has substituted their self effort in place of the Grace of God.
Paul defines this as "falling from Grace'..."being Bewitched", and "being in the Flesh".

The principal symptom is that they believe they can lose their salvation.
The "gospel" they will preach is always Galatians 1:8

 

[justbyfaith]

1 John 1:9 is in the same context as 1 John 1:7.

Confessing our sins therefore is declared as the method by which we walk in the light as He is in the light; and if we do this, His blood cleanseth us from all sin.

If we do not do this, it doesn't.

 

[Taken]

A heretic, is defined by Paul, in Galatians.
Its a person who has substituted their self effort in place of the Grace of God.
Paul defines this as "falling from Grace'..."being Bewitched", and "being in the Flesh".

The principal symptom is that they believe they can lose their salvation.
The "gospel" they will preach is always Galatians 1:8

Thanks for your reply.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Behold]

Given that fact, perhaps it is time for you to just shut up and learn, instead of trying to teach that which is false and misleading.

If you find Paul's doctrine regarding "if you walk in the Spirit you shall not sin"....offensive......as im teaching how Paul taught to do that, then i'd say, you might pull a chair and pay attention, and try to learn.
Or , you can just whine and wish you could stop sinning and repenting, while you reject the method that Paul taught, that i THREAD, to try to help you.
You get to decide.

 

[Behold]

Are you not in danger of hell fire for saying that (Matthew 5:22)?

Didn't you just tell me this week you have "indwelling sin issues" and that 2 nights ago, (Sunday Night) you "sinned and had to repent'?
So, now you read a verse in Matthew, that you also dont understand, to try to impugn me again?
You are ridiculous.
Truly.

 

[Behold]

Thanks for your reply.

Glory to God,
Taken

Glory to God !

 

[Enoch111]

Hi Enoch, What do you find false and misleading exactly?

Behold is trying very hard to be a teacher, when he should really be a pupil (which includes learning how to write cogently and with clarity).

I will quote from his OP about "Become a Perfect Disciple of Christ" and show you that he does not understand the difference between justification and sanctification and as a result he is promoting the Hyper-Grace heresy that Christians cannot and do not sin, and therefore do not need to address their present sins. And that is false and misleading. So the one talking about "spotting the heretic" is himself promoting heresy!

QUOTES FROM *BEHOLD'S* OP
"Becoming a perfect Disciple of Christ"

FALLACY #1. JUSTIFICATION = SANCTIFICATION
"And sanctified how? This is how. = 1 Corinthians 1:30. ... ""But of Him you (the Born again) are in Christ Jesus, WHO BECAME FOR US = wisdom from God—and Righteousness and SANCTIFICATION and REDEMPTION". Now see that? See how the verses show you that you are MADE ALL this, by God?= So, that is your Born Again Spirit that is BECOME ALL THAT."
[My comment: the sanctification mentioned here means being set apart by the gift and sealing of the Holy Spirit. It does not mean sinless perfection (which is implied by Behold)]

"You dont work for that, you are already "abiding" there..."
[My comment: all genuine Christians understand that they do NOT work for their salvation. So that is not only a gratuitous remark, it is a straw man argument]

FALLACY #2: "WE THE BORN AGAIN HAVE NO SIN"
"Your born again INNER MAN, that is "seated in heavenly places IN CHRIST" RIGHT NOW>...>and tomorrow...is FINISHED. So, when i say we the born again have no sin, im talking about all THAT ... As that is the REAL ME and YOU..the born again "new creation in CHRIST " REAL ME and YOU. = AS GOD sees US at all times. If you are born again....You are Perfected, Sanctified, Justified, Redeemed and have Eternal Life, AS the "new Creation" in Christ. = the REAL You. So, NOW. Once you see that...lets talk about living Holy.
You can only live HOLY because you SEE that the REAL YOU is already ALL THAT.. "in Christ" as the "new Creation"."
[My comment: The first epistle of John makes it crystal clear that if any Christian claims that he is sinless, he deceives himself and also makes God a liar]

FALLACY # 3: JUSTIFICATION = WALKING IN THE SPIRIT
"Could you live holy enough to ever become all that if you were never MADE Righteous by the Blood of JESUS? A.) NO. So, its in the knowledge of who you are in Christ, that you go about your discipleship, knowing you are already RIGHTEOUS>. Perfected. Sanctified.. "IN CHRIST". And when you SEE THIS... when you truly SEE YOURSELF as GOD has MADE YOU TO BE... the "new Creation".... Then your discipleship will have true spiritual power and true influence. THIS IS "WALKING IN THE SPIRIT". Its what i have shown you in many previous Threads ."
[My comment: The difference between walking in the Spirit and living according to "the flesh" is spelled out in detail in Galatians 5. The issue of justification is not in view. The flesh needs to be crucified, as Paul clearly states]

 

[marks]

and as a result he is promoting the Hyper-Grace heresy that Christians cannot and do not sin, and therefore do not need to address their present sins.

I don't know that you rightly understand what he is saying.

I agree, @Behold 's writing can be difficult. But as I understand it, he's trying to show how we actually do deal with present sin. And I believe he is completely correct. It's a complete rest in the finished work of Christ on the cross. It's real.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

Behold is trying very hard to be a teacher, when he should really be a pupil (which includes learning how to write cogently and with clarity).I will quote from his OP about "Become a Perfect Disciple of Christ" and show you that he does not understand the difference between justification and sanctification and as a result he is promoting the Hyper-Grace heresy that Christians cannot and do not sin, and therefore do not need to address their present sins. And that is false and misleading. So the one talking about "spotting the heretic" is himself promoting heresy!
QUOTES FROM *BEHOLD'S* OP
"Becoming a perfect Disciple of Christ"FALLACY #1. JUSTIFICATION = SANCTIFICATION
"And sanctified how? This is how. = 1 Corinthians 1:30. ... ""But of Him you (the Born again) are in Christ Jesus, WHO BECAME FOR US = wisdom from God—and Righteousness and SANCTIFICATION and REDEMPTION". Now see that? See how the verses show you that you are MADE ALL this, by God?= So, that is your Born Again Spirit that is BECOME ALL THAT."
[My comment: the sanctification mentioned here means being set apart by the gift and sealing of the Holy Spirit. It does not mean sinless perfection (which is implied by Behold)]"You dont work for that, you are already "abiding" there..."
[My comment: all genuine Christians understand that they do NOT work for their salvation. So that is not only a gratuitous remark, it is a straw man argument]FALLACY #2: "WE THE BORN AGAIN HAVE NO SIN"
"Your born again INNER MAN, that is "seated in heavenly places IN CHRIST" RIGHT NOW>...>and tomorrow...is FINISHED. So, when i say we the born again have no sin, im talking about all THAT ... As that is the REAL ME and YOU..the born again "new creation in CHRIST " REAL ME and YOU. = AS GOD sees US at all times. If you are born again....You are Perfected, Sanctified, Justified, Redeemed and have Eternal Life, AS the "new Creation" in Christ. = the REAL You. So, NOW. Once you see that...lets talk about living Holy.
You can only live HOLY because you SEE that the REAL YOU is already ALL THAT.. "in Christ" as the "new Creation"."
[My comment: The first epistle of John makes it crystal clear that if any Christian claims that he is sinless, he deceives himself and also makes God a liar]FALLACY # 3: JUSTIFICATION = WALKING IN THE SPIRIT
"Could you live holy enough to ever become all that if you were never MADE Righteous by the Blood of JESUS? A.) NO. So, its in the knowledge of who you are in Christ, that you go about your discipleship, knowing you are already RIGHTEOUS>. Perfected. Sanctified.. "IN CHRIST". And when you SEE THIS... when you truly SEE YOURSELF as GOD has MADE YOU TO BE... the "new Creation".... Then your discipleship will have true spiritual power and true influence. THIS IS "WALKING IN THE SPIRIT". Its what i have shown you in many previous Threads ."
[My comment: The difference between walking in the Spirit and living according to "the flesh" is spelled out in detail in Galatians 5. The issue of justification is not in view. The flesh needs to be crucified, as Paul clearly states]

"""""""[My comment: the sanctification mentioned here means being set apart by the gift and sealing of the Holy Spirit. It does not mean sinless perfection (which is implied by Behold)]"""""""


First of all, thank you for obsessing on me, as this helps me to help others here.
Also...
I dont teach "sinless perfection".
Dishonest people apply that term to what they misunderstand, regarding my Threads.





""""""""[My comment: all genuine Christians understand that they do NOT work for their salvation. So that is not only a gratuitous remark, it is a straw man argument]"""""""

Most Genuine Christians..... noted on this Fourm, believe you can "lose your salvation", or they believe they have to "endure to the end", or "keep commandments", to STAY Saved.
So, all of this is a "work" a deceived Christian is trying to do, to REMAIN saved.
You do it.
You are one the main offenders.




"""""""[My comment: The first epistle of John makes it crystal clear that if any Christian claims that he is sinless, he deceives himself and also makes God a liar]""""""""


There is no sin found "in Christ". And every born again Believer is "in Christ".
If you read 1 Jn 3, you'll discover for the first time that John says , of the Born again, that We can't sin.
He does not say this to the people He is talking to in 1st Jn 1.
You dont understand why, and i'll let you continue to be lost in your confusion.





"""""""[My comment: The difference between walking in the Spirit and living according to "the flesh" is spelled out in detail in Galatians 5. The issue of justification is not in view. The flesh needs to be crucified, as Paul clearly states]""""""



Walking in the Spirit, is provided by Right Believing, exactly as Paul describes the "foolish Galatians' as falling from Grace and returning to the dominion of the Law., which is to Walk in the Flesh.

So, here is the answer to resolve that Problem.
i hope you dont mind if i tell the readers here who, like you... are confessing and repenting, and have no control over this........ that i would show them how to stop.
You can't show them, as your remarkable Legalism Theology, can only make their lives and their walk with God, more difficult.

So, this the answer..


God is merciful to our UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEREFOR..... OUR SIN ONCE FORGIVEN on the CROSS Through Christ, God WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.
For the born again, Its as if we've never sinned. This is why we are defined by God as a "new Creation".
We are in fact BRAND NEW.....and as Righteous as God......"The Gift of Righteousness", having made us so.
And this position of being "in Christ" ... continues from the moment of our new birth, until forever...... as that is the effect of eternal Justification that is given as the "free gift of salvation", "the gift of Righteousness", that is created and kept by the Blood Atonement.

Hebrews 8:12

God deals with our unrighteousness, our sin, by Jesus becoming our sin on the cross and taking the judgement for it all.
Our entire lifetime of sinning,.... the eternal judgement due each of us for this....= This is the "cup" that Jesus spoke about that He was about to face. = The whipping and then the Cross and Death.
This is HOW God dealt with the unrighteousness of the entire world. He died for it all. John 3:16
And this Death, is the mercy and Grace of God giving righteousness in place of our unrighteousness.
Jesus has our sin, and we have Jesus's Righteousness as our Sanctification, Justification, Redemption, and Eternal LIFE and Eternal Security.
This is what maintains our Peace with God, at all times.
= This is Salvation. = This is Grace. = This is the "Gift of Righteousness", and we dont earn it and we dont keep it, as it is given and kept by the same Holy One who provided it, for free. = GOD Himself

Philippians 1:6

 

[marks]

FALLACY #1. JUSTIFICATION = SANCTIFICATION
"And sanctified how? This is how. = 1 Corinthians 1:30. ... ""But of Him you (the Born again) are in Christ Jesus, WHO BECAME FOR US = wisdom from God—and Righteousness and SANCTIFICATION and REDEMPTION". Now see that? See how the verses show you that you are MADE ALL this, by God?= So, that is your Born Again Spirit that is BECOME ALL THAT."
[My comment: the sanctification mentioned here means being set apart by the gift and sealing of the Holy Spirit. It does not mean sinless perfection (which is implied by Behold)]

In Romans 6, the translation here isn't so clear in the KJV,

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

But what the Greek says is, "the one dead is justified away from sin".

Justification is what sanctifies us. Being born again, we are sanctified in the new man. And we are instructed to put on the new man.

That which is born of God sins not. The new creation. When we life as if according to the old creation, we place ourselves under a system of "right/wrong" which inflames the passions of the flesh.

When we live in the light of God's love, we are ruled by love, and our spirits respond in love to God. It really is true!

Much love!

 

[marks]

FALLACY #2: "WE THE BORN AGAIN HAVE NO SIN"
"Your born again INNER MAN, that is "seated in heavenly places IN CHRIST" RIGHT NOW>...>and tomorrow...is FINISHED. So, when i say we the born again have no sin, im talking about all THAT ... As that is the REAL ME and YOU..the born again "new creation in CHRIST " REAL ME and YOU. = AS GOD sees US at all times. If you are born again....You are Perfected, Sanctified, Justified, Redeemed and have Eternal Life, AS the "new Creation" in Christ. = the REAL You. So, NOW. Once you see that...lets talk about living Holy.
You can only live HOLY because you SEE that the REAL YOU is already ALL THAT.. "in Christ" as the "new Creation"."
[My comment: The first epistle of John makes it crystal clear that if any Christian claims that he is sinless, he deceives himself and also makes God a liar]

You are saying the same thing. That's what @Behold is talking about, and me. The real me, the child of God, does not sin. Put on that man. And you do so by adjusting your mind to the new covenant. We are so habituated to live according to, If I do well I will be accepted. But now that is all behind us. We are accepted in the beloved.

Much love!

 

[marks]

FALLACY # 3: JUSTIFICATION = WALKING IN THE SPIRIT
"Could you live holy enough to ever become all that if you were never MADE Righteous by the Blood of JESUS? A.) NO. So, its in the knowledge of who you are in Christ, that you go about your discipleship, knowing you are already RIGHTEOUS>. Perfected. Sanctified.. "IN CHRIST". And when you SEE THIS... when you truly SEE YOURSELF as GOD has MADE YOU TO BE... the "new Creation".... Then your discipleship will have true spiritual power and true influence. THIS IS "WALKING IN THE SPIRIT". Its what i have shown you in many previous Threads ."
[My comment: The difference between walking in the Spirit and living according to "the flesh" is spelled out in detail in Galatians 5. The issue of justification is not in view. The flesh needs to be crucified, as Paul clearly states]

In my life, the issue has so often been that being conscious of my sins, I've felt separated from God. I think Jeremiah and Isaiah both used the words, "our iniquities testify against us", and that's what they do. "My sins are ever before me", David wrote. We KNOW we are guilty. And that knowledge works against us as we want to commune with an Holy God, Who is a Consuming Fire, but we KNOW we are guilty.

And that knowledge of our guilt is disbelief that our sins are gone, forgiven, and that we are completely and permanently reconciled to God by the cross. And that doubt is not faith, and it's in faith that we stand. In faith we walk in God's power.

So let's stop "knowing" what's no longer true. We are Not Guilty. Not guilty by virtue of execution. The guilty party died. Now it's me here. And in my certain knowledge that God has nothing against me, only love for His child, only care and concern for my needs, I can commit myself freely to Him, as to a Faithful Creator.

The thing is . . . when you can come to think this way, at least, in my experience, the power of sin simply evaporates. I mean, there's still the flesh, it's there, I know, believe me, I know! But just the same . . . God is there also, and He has the true power. The flesh has been nullified.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

You are saying the same thing. That's what @Behold is talking about, and me. The real me, the child of God, does not sin. Put on that man. And you do so by adjusting your mind to the new covenant. We are so habituated to live according to, If I do well I will be accepted. But now that is all behind us. We are accepted in the beloved.

Much love!

Yes.

We only live in the Grace of God when we are able to SEE ourselves only as God sees us.
This is Right Believing that breaks the yoke of sinning and repenting and confessing "dead works".
Until we do see ourselves as God sees us..., we will see the old man, who is dead, and Paul said we are to "reckon Him Dead".

""""For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.""

Listen Saint, how can sin have dominion over what is DEAD?'
It cant.
But the LAW that is the power of SIN, can cause your flesh to be empowered to WANT to commit deeds of the Flesh.
Saint, "sin consciousness" in your MIND< is your flesh.
When you have control of that, you have found your KEY to perfected discipleship.
= Right Believing......seeing yourself as God sees you......understanding that Jesus has all your sin, and you have all God's righteousness....when you see this with the EYES of your faith, the eyes of your spiritual understanding, = your bondage to carnal behavior will be broken.
But not until.

 

[Waiting on him]

Yes.

We only live in the Grace of God when we are able to SEE ourselves only as God sees us.
This is Right Believing that breaks the yoke of sinning and repenting and confessing "dead works".
Until we do see ourselves as God sees us..., we will see the old man, who is dead, and Paul said we are to "reckon Him Dead".

""""For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.""

Listen Saint, how can sin have dominion over what is DEAD?'
It cant.
But the LAW that is the power of SIN, can cause your flesh to be empowered to WANT to commit deeds of the Flesh.
Saint, "sin consciousness" in your MIND< is your flesh.
When you have control of that, you have found your KEY to perfected discipleship.
= Right Believing......seeing yourself as God sees you......understanding that Jesus has all your sin, and you have all God's righteousness....when you see this with the EYES of your faith, the eyes of your spiritual understanding, = your bondage to carnal behavior will be broken.
But not until.

I believe this is why Paul was literally begging the Hebrews to put down this system of continuall repentance down, because in their performance of this he could see they had not truly received Christ as a once and for all sacrifice. The fact that they hadn't moved on from this system. As he stated you should be teachers by now after all he had taught them. Tragically they were still desiring to return to Judaism
Washing of hands
Repentance of dead works
Yet looking for a prophesied Messiah.

 

[Waiting on him]

People need to look to the finished work of Christ.

 

[Behold]

I believe this is why Paul was literally begging the Hebrews to put down this system of continuall repentance down, because in their performance of this he could see they had not truly received Christ as a once and for all sacrifice. The fact that they hadn't moved on from this system. As he stated you should be teachers by now after all he had taught them. Tragically they were still desiring to return to Judaism
Washing of hands
Repentance of dead works
Yet looking for a prophesied Messiah.

Jude defines the Legalist...the self savor, the "doing stuff to keep myself saved"....as the same mentality as you are talking about.
Its defined as the "error of Cain".
This is the error of the Legalist.

Its like this....
Cain and Abel both went to God.
God rejected Cain.
Why?
Because Cain tried to have fellowship with God based on Cain's performance and works and product, and self effort.
That was Cain's error and God said....."get out".
Abel came to God bringing the BLOOD OF ANOTHER, and God said..."well done".
So, today, and since the Cross was raised you have the "cain's" and the "abel's.
The Cains are enduring and working and trying to perform so that God will keep them, and the Abel's are resting in God's Grace because they are trusting in God's BLOOD ONLY.... to keep them in God's Grace.

 

[FollowHim]

Faith ...

There is the Faith that God accepts "once", - Trusted Christ, and you are born again, being "justified by Faith", at that TIME.
And that creates "eternal life", and God living in you.
This is "eternal security".

But then, there is the walk of Faith.
This is you existing in a completed Salvation, that was gained by Jesus, and given as "the Gift of Salvation".
So, this walking out your faith, is not to keep yourself saved, but its just the normal course of being a Disciple and learning how to do this, as you Grow in God's Grace that..(God's Grace) is the reason you are become a disciple to begin with, = God's Atonement.

Faith ...

There is the Faith that God accepts "once", - Trusted Christ, and you are born again, being "justified by Faith", at that TIME.
And that creates "eternal life", and God living in you.
This is "eternal security".

But then, there is the walk of Faith.
This is you existing in a completed Salvation, that was gained by Jesus, and given as "the Gift of Salvation".
So, this walking out your faith, is not to keep yourself saved, but its just the normal course of being a Disciple and learning how to do this, as you Grow in God's Grace that..(God's Grace) is the reason you are become a disciple to begin with, = God's Atonement.

I see you are upset by my faith. What do I hold that is a challenge to you? Is it perhaps those of faith who disagree with your conclusions. I think this strikes fear in you, you could be wrong, and you have gone so far there is no turning back. And that is the problem. No restraint or seeing in every relationship has the risk of failure, in which love proves the conqueror. God bless you

 

[justbyfaith]

Didn't you just tell me this week you have "indwelling sin issues" and that 2 nights ago, (Sunday Night) you "sinned and had to repent'?
So, now you read a verse in Matthew, that you also dont understand, to try to impugn me again?
You are ridiculous.
Truly.

Everyone has indwelling sin according to 1 John 1:8. I am not saying that I have issues; but I am agreeing with the holy scriptures here.

And, bringing the scriptures to bear on your behaviour and teaching is what I am called to do as a watchman here.

There is no sin found "in Christ". And every born again Believer is "in Christ".

I think that this is true in the positional sense (for God does not see our sin but looks down on us and sees the blood); however in the sense of whether sin dwells in you or not, 1 John 1:8 is clear that sin indwells even the believer.