The Amazing Christ

[MatthewG]

I have read Revelation. Why do you ask? I know that after the events of Revelation we'll finally know what's what. Something to look forward to.

The only reason to ask is just to see what you may say. People can say that have read something, but also sometimes forget some of the topics surrounding with-in the contents of the book. As like for Revelation 4-5, for some reason brings my mind to seeing the Father and the Son together, as the Lord God Almighty.

Though people may suggest differently and that is fine. I do believe Jesus is the Son of God, the only Begotten after resurrection, and believe that after he went back up to God, and once everything is placed underneath the feet of Jesus, God is said to be all in all, and I believe that is where the Lord Jesus, and the Father come together as one, each having their respective place.

It means we can still ask the Father to help us in Jesus name, and still see Jesus as the mediator between man and God but something happened once the enemies of Jesus are placed under his feet according to what Paul mentions.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

sounds like mormonism.

To clarify LDS Christian beliefs here: Christ, the 100% divine Son of God, has always been thus. He created the world and everything on it (along with the Father). It is through the miracle of His atonement that is sinners are able to become clean, white as snow, and perfect even as He is.

 

[Rich R]

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist,
and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Prepositions are small words with huge implications.

"...from whom are all things..."

"from" is Greek "ek" which means something that comes out from something else. In this case, "all things come from God."

"...through whom are all things..."

"through" is Greek "dia" which means something that goes through an intermediary, an agent.

If you were to receive a letter I mailed you in the mail, the letter would be "from" (ek) me "through" (dia) the Post Office. The Post Office is not me, nor is Jesus God. Two separate entities in both cases.

Here's a diagram of 1 Cor 8:6 to illustrate the above:



But dont' just believe anything I say (or anybody else for that matter, including the clergy). Check it out for yourself. The Bereans in Acts didn't even believe what the Apostle Paul told them without verifying it for themselves from the actual scriptures (Acts 17:10-12).

"ek" - Strong's Greek: 1537. ἐκ (ek or ex) -- from, from out of
"dia" - Strong's Greek: 1223. διά (dia) -- through, on account of, because of

 

[Rich R]

The only reason to ask is just to see what you may say. People can say that have read something, but also sometimes forget some of the topics surrounding with-in the contents of the book. As like for Revelation 4-5, for some reason brings my mind to seeing the Father and the Son together, as the Lord God Almighty.

Though people may suggest differently and that is fine. I do believe Jesus is the Son of God, the only Begotten after resurrection, and believe that after he went back up to God, and once everything is placed underneath the feet of Jesus, God is said to be all in all, and I believe that is where the Lord Jesus, and the Father come together as one, each having their respective place.

It means we can still ask the Father to help us in Jesus name, and still see Jesus as the mediator between man and God but something happened once the enemies of Jesus are placed under his feet according to what Paul mentions.

That all sounds good. Jesus is absolutely the only begotten son of God as the scripture clearly say around 40 times.

I'd add that we also are/will be one with God and Jesus.

John 17:21,

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.​

​

Talk about grace! God sure must love us way more than we deserve.

 

[Keiw]

Please take a moment to read this post.

The Amazing Christ -

The anointed one whom was sent down by God from heaven born in flesh, through the past generations of people whom lead up to the birth of the promised messiah who would bring justification, and also lead into the great and dreadful day of the LORD (God), as promised to the material nation which was produced by and through the seed of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. Which lead to the 12 tribes of Israel in that day in age for them, even if there may have been split off from one being united.

Yeshua, the Lord sent from Heaven by God (Yahweh/Jehovah), was for the judgement, and redemption for all people by and through the death, burial, and resurrection. In which the promise which was made for the Jews then through out the ages, until Jesus (Yeshua) had come to be born now at that point be bringing forth in all into Salvation for having sin paid for on behalf of Him.

This death, was required to vanquish sin, to conquer over the devil (defeated - for all people once and for all be cause of being cast away and done away with according to Revelation, the death allows people to be able to also die to sin, by being baptized in Jesus (Yeshua) and his death. Then raise, rise again, resurrection of newness of life is formed, when people come to believe in these truths about that bible which is all lead by and through the Spirit which is sent from God, by believing and having faith which leads to having a prayerful relationship, and also looking and seeking the things of God by looking at the bible and reading the word.

The finality, is this, having a brand new life by the Holy Spirit of God / (Spirit of Christ) that resides with-in you is your new life which produces what the spirit brings forth such as kindness, patience, goodness, long-suffering, love, peace, forgiveness, which is always produced by and from God and never ourselves because of faith and asking the Father in heaven to help you as you go through this life and grow in your knowledge of God and grow by and through the spirit building up for yourself treasures in heaven.

You seem to have missed--All who lived and then died-paid in full the wages of sin by their own death. If the way you think Jesus covered all sin, then no one would have to taste death but all do.
Jesus death was the ransom sacrifice, it opened the door to all to enter through the narrow gate to gain life in Gods kingdom, to repent and turn around gets sin blotted out( Acts 3:19)--yet even those die, the righteous die and pay their own wages of sin.

 

[MatthewG]

You seem to have missed--All who lived and then died-paid in full the wages of sin by their own death.

“But now you are free from sin. You have become slaves of God, and the result is that you live only for God. This will bring you eternal life. When people sin, they earn what sin pays—death. But God gives his people a free gift—eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6‬:‭22‬-‭23‬ ‭ERV‬‬

Romans 6:23 When people sin, they earn what sin pays—death. But God gives his people a free gift—eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. | Holy Bible: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) | Download The Bible App Now

When people sin, they earn what sin pays—death. But God gives his people a free gift—eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

bible.com

If the way you think Jesus covered all sin, then no one would have to taste death but all do.

Eventually in the new heavenly realm there I’ll be no more death. Jesus tasted death, your right.

Hebrews 2:9
“For a short time Jesus was made lower than the angels, but now we see him wearing a crown of glory and honor because he suffered and died. Because of God’s grace, Jesus died for everyone.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2‬:‭9‬ ‭ERV‬‬

Hebrews 2:9 For a short time Jesus was made lower than the angels, but now we see him wearing a crown of glory and honor because he suffered and died. Because of God’s grace, Jesus died for everyone. | Holy Bible: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) | Downloa

For a short time Jesus was made lower than the angels, but now we see him wearing a crown of glory and honor because he suffered and died. Because of God’s grace, Jesus died for everyone.

bible.com

This is talking about the new Heavenly realm

“I heard a loud voice from the throne. It said, “Now God’s home is with people. He will live with them. They will be his people. God himself will be with them and will be their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death, sadness, crying, or pain. All the old ways are gone.””
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21‬:‭3‬-‭4‬ ‭ERV‬‬

Revelation 21:4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death, sadness, crying, or pain. All the old ways are gone.” | Holy Bible: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) | Download The Bible App Now

He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death, sadness, crying, or pain. All the old ways are gone.”

bible.com

Jesus death was the ransom sacrifice, it opened the door to all to enter through the narrow gate to gain life in Gods kingdom, to repent and turn around gets sin blotted out( Acts 3:19)--yet even those die, the righteous die and pay their own wages of sin.

You remind me of this my friend, the Parable of the sower. People make the choice themselves if they as individuals will seek out for God or not.

Would you answer this question; if God reconciled the world unto himself through Christ would you say everyone has been reconciled to Him because of the death of Christ?

 

[Keiw]

“But now you are free from sin. You have become slaves of God, and the result is that you live only for God. This will bring you eternal life. When people sin, they earn what sin pays—death. But God gives his people a free gift—eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6‬:‭22‬-‭23‬ ‭ERV‬‬

Romans 6:23 When people sin, they earn what sin pays—death. But God gives his people a free gift—eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. | Holy Bible: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) | Download The Bible App Now

When people sin, they earn what sin pays—death. But God gives his people a free gift—eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

bible.com

Eventually in the new heavenly realm there I’ll be no more death. Jesus tasted death, your right.

Hebrews 2:9
“For a short time Jesus was made lower than the angels, but now we see him wearing a crown of glory and honor because he suffered and died. Because of God’s grace, Jesus died for everyone.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2‬:‭9‬ ‭ERV‬‬

Hebrews 2:9 For a short time Jesus was made lower than the angels, but now we see him wearing a crown of glory and honor because he suffered and died. Because of God’s grace, Jesus died for everyone. | Holy Bible: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) | Downloa

For a short time Jesus was made lower than the angels, but now we see him wearing a crown of glory and honor because he suffered and died. Because of God’s grace, Jesus died for everyone.

bible.com

This is talking about the new Heavenly realm

“I heard a loud voice from the throne. It said, “Now God’s home is with people. He will live with them. They will be his people. God himself will be with them and will be their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death, sadness, crying, or pain. All the old ways are gone.””
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21‬:‭3‬-‭4‬ ‭ERV‬‬

Revelation 21:4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death, sadness, crying, or pain. All the old ways are gone.” | Holy Bible: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) | Download The Bible App Now

He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death, sadness, crying, or pain. All the old ways are gone.”

bible.com

You remind me of this my friend, the Parable of the sower. People make the choice themselves if they as individuals will seek out for God or not.

Would you answer this question; if God reconciled the world unto himself through Christ would you say everyone has been reconciled to Him because of the death of Christ?

No, one must enter through the narrow gate-Jesus said FEW would find that road that leads off into life( be saved) because the many have entered the broad and spacious path that leads to destruction. Matt 7:14.

You are mistaken about that being the heavenly realm--Rev 21:2 coming down out of heaven= to the earth.

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, I agree with what Jesus says here

“‘Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide [is] the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it; how strait [is] the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Matthew 7:13-14 ‘Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide [is] the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it; how strait [is] the gate, and compressed th | Young's Literal Translation 189

‘Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide [is] the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it; how strait [is] the gate, and compressed th

bible.com

@Keiw

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, I agree with what Jesus says here

“‘Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide [is] the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it; how strait [is] the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Matthew 7:13-14 ‘Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide [is] the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it; how strait [is] the gate, and compressed th | Young's Literal Translation 189

‘Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide [is] the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it; how strait [is] the gate, and compressed th

bible.com

@Keiw

Why is the strait gate - which is narrow and compressed hard to find? Because it is where Jesus is the one who helps us in dying to ourselves (Romans 6:3-11) (Matthew 16:24-26) and living for God and to love God first and love others as yourself (Luke 10:27). Jesus says in (John 10:1) to the Pharisees; those who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate but climbs is a thief and a robber.
Jesus said that no one has access to his Father but by and through Him (John 14:6).

There will be few that find dying to the self and living for God worth while when it applies to their spiritually livelihood in heaven, as Jesus said also to store up treasures in heaven rather than earth. (Matthew 6:19-20), as God has prepared a place for people; (John 14:1-6).

 

[Keiw]

Yes, I agree with what Jesus says here

“‘Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide [is] the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it; how strait [is] the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Matthew 7:13-14 ‘Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide [is] the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it; how strait [is] the gate, and compressed th | Young's Literal Translation 189

‘Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide [is] the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it; how strait [is] the gate, and compressed th

bible.com

@Keiw

Yes a single path leads to God, satan has made an abundance of paths and most are fooled by them( 2Cor 11:12-15)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist,
and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Great verse!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Which verses are you talking about? I'll be glad to show how they can be taken in a non-trinity way and thus agree with the clear declarations of both Paul and Jesus that only the Father is God.

If, on the other hand, Jesus is God, I would hope you could show how 1 Cor 8:6 and John 17:3 say that the son and not just the Father is God. As you correctly inferred, we can't ignore any of God's word. That much is certain.

Rich,
This is the verse that struck me about 35 years ago that Jesus is God. That was a rhema from God, so I knew that it was true, He was verifying that Jesus is God. But so is the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Titus 2:
13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

 

[Keiw]

Great verse!

Yes it is. It clearly shows only the Father is God.

 

[Rich R]

Rich,
This is the verse that struck me about 35 years ago that Jesus is God. That was a rhema from God, so I knew that it was true, He was verifying that Jesus is God. But so is the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Titus 2:
13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

There is no shortage of different translations of Titus 2:13. Grammatically it can be taken in more than one way, many that don't make Jesus God. Here's why I favor the latter: You've probably seen in the introduction of many of Paul's letters mention of the God of Jesus. If Titus actually said Jesus is God, I'd be forced to accept that God has a God. I've not been able to bring myself to admit that, so I take Jesus to be the son of God. That way it's easy to see how Jesus could have a God; his Father is God. And that agrees with all the verses that mention Jesus' Father. Not sure who I would say God's father is.

 

[Jim B]

There is no shortage of different translations of Titus 2:13. Grammatically it can be taken in more than one way, many that don't make Jesus God. Here's why I favor the latter: You've probably seen in the introduction of many of Paul's letters mention of the God of Jesus. If Titus actually said Jesus is God, I'd be forced to accept that God has a God. I've not been able to bring myself to admit that, so I take Jesus to be the son of God. That way it's easy to see how Jesus could have a God; his Father is God. And that agrees with all the verses that mention Jesus' Father. Not sure who I would say God's father is.

I feel badly that you can't understand that Jesus was and is God. As John wrote, Jesus created all things: "All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being." John 1:3 and Genesis 1:1 says " In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." These two verses clearly state that Jesus was/is God. And of course, John 1:1 says " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. " So it's not just Titus 2:13 that proves that Jesus was/is God.

Jesus also explained this further when He said, "The Father and I are one" in John 10:30

Admittedly it's not the easiest thing to understand. It takes some thinking by faith, unobstructed by faulty human logic.

 

[Jim B]

Yes it is. It clearly shows only the Father is God.

Pleas read my post immediately above.

 

[Jim B]

Yes a single path leads to God, satan has made an abundance of paths and most are fooled by them( 2Cor 11:12-15)

Most? How do you know who believes what you claim? Or are you just condemning people in general?

 

[Jim B]

Why is the strait gate - which is narrow and compressed hard to find? Because it is where Jesus is the one who helps us in dying to ourselves (Romans 6:3-11) (Matthew 16:24-26) and living for God and to love God first and love others as yourself (Luke 10:27). Jesus says in (John 10:1) to the Pharisees; those who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate but climbs is a thief and a robber.
Jesus said that no one has access to his Father but by and through Him (John 14:6).

There will be few that find dying to the self and living for God worth while when it applies to their spiritually livelihood in heaven, as Jesus said also to store up treasures in heaven rather than earth. (Matthew 6:19-20), as God has prepared a place for people; (John 14:1-6).

"There will be few that find dying to the self and living for God worth while when it applies to their spiritually livelihood in heaven". Of course, this doesn't apply to yourself, right? How can you justify judging people's righteousness? Are you playing God?

 

[Rich R]

I feel badly that you can't understand that Jesus was and is God. As John wrote, Jesus created all things: "All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being." John 1:3 and Genesis 1:1 says " In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." These two verses clearly state that Jesus was/is God. And of course, John 1:1 says " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. " So it's not just Titus 2:13 that proves that Jesus was/is God.

Jesus also explained this further when He said, "The Father and I are one" in John 10:30

Admittedly it's not the easiest thing to understand. It takes some thinking by faith, unobstructed by faulty human logic.

Well, that still leaves the question of who the God and Father of God is. Many verses clearly say Jesus had both. What do we do with them?

As far as John is concerned, his goal was to show that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah), the son of God (John 20:31). Nothing about him wanting to show Jesus is God. Wouldn't it make sense to understand his Gospel in that light? John 1:1 talks about the logos. It's just not right to simply substitute the word "Jesus" for "word" (logos). The question is, what exactly is the logos? It is a definite thing that can be ferreted out if one makes the effort. In any case, that question ought to be answered in light of John's overall goal in writing what he wrote, i.e., that Jesus is the Messiah and the son of God.

Having been on both sides of the fence, I can say that the Bible story is much more exciting and God's genius is magnified about a zillion times when Jesus is seen as the son of God, the promised Messiah. Where did God ask us to accept things that make no sense whatsoever? God is the epitome of logic (think of the word logos). That's what was with God in the beginning. What would be easier for God:

1. Just come down and do all the work Himself?
2. Lovingly convince a free will man with the same passions and temptations as the rest of us to willingly die a most gruesome death imaginable for a bunch of unrighteous ingrates?

I will also admit that accepting Jesus as the son of God is not easy to accept. Two thousand years of tradition is hard to overcome, but it can be done.

 

[Jim B]

Well, that still leaves the question of who the God and Father of God is. Many verses clearly say Jesus had both. What do we do with them?

As far as John is concerned, his goal was to show that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah), the son of God (John 20:31). Nothing about him wanting to show Jesus is God. Wouldn't it make sense to understand his Gospel in that light? John 1:1 talks about the logos. It's just not right to simply substitute the word "Jesus" for "word" (logos). The question is, what exactly is the logos? It is a definite thing that can be ferreted out if one makes the effort. In any case, that question ought to be answered in light of John's overall goal in writing what he wrote, i.e., that Jesus is the Messiah and the son of God.

Having been on both sides of the fence, I can say that the Bible story is much more exciting and God's genius is magnified about a zillion times when Jesus is seen as the son of God, the promised Messiah. Where did God ask us to accept things that make no sense whatsoever? God is the epitome of logic (think of the word logos). That's what was with God in the beginning. What would be easier for God:

1. Just come down and do all the work Himself?
2. Lovingly convince a free will man with the same passions and temptations as the rest of us to willingly die a most gruesome death imaginable for a bunch of unrighteous ingrates?

I will also admit that accepting Jesus as the son of God is not easy to accept. Two thousand years of tradition is hard to overcome, but it can be done.

So here is your problem: Where did God ask us to accept things that make no sense whatsoever? God is the epitome of logic (think of the word logos).

I hate to inform you but logic -- "making sense" -- won't gain the understanding needed. That is why the Pharisees and Sadducees missed the Christ. Their logic got in the way of true spiritual knowledge. Unfortunately that is the case with many people today.

I used to be an atheist. I had everything "all figured out" because the thinking about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit wasn't logical. I thank God forever that He showed me His love and His truth!

Logic will get you nowhere, my friend. Faith -- trusting God and believing -- is the only answer.