The Amazing Christ

[Keiw]

Pleas read my post immediately above.

It is you being mislead by a capitol G God in the last line at John 1:1--Its not like that in the Greek lexicons.--The true God called Ho Theos in the 2nd line, plain Theos to the word in the last line--To show the difference. Same at 2 Cor 4:4--The true God called HoTheos( God) and satan called plain Theos-(god)--the rule is the same at both spots. The only word in Greek for either God or god is Theos--thus HoTheos when it is calling the true God God and plain Theos in the same paragraph gets god.
Your scholars know its fact. It would expose over 40,000 religions claiming to be christian as false religion, billions of $$$ would be lost yearly and probably 2 billion humans suing them for taking their $$$.

 

[Keiw]

Most? How do you know who believes what you claim? Or are you just condemning people in general?

The teachings of Jesus and fact of true God worship history back my teachers. Few actually know what Jesus taught. Like this super important one every true follower knows by heart already--Matthew 6:33-- Therefore keep on seeking -FIRST- the kingdom and his ( YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality) Matt 6

 

[GRACE ambassador]

op: The Amazing Christ?
Warning:

Might as well 'link' This Complete Case before this thread arguing
trinitarian vs anti-trinitarian gets "locked up" with all the others...

 

[MatthewG]

"There will be few that find dying to the self and living for God worth while when it applies to their spiritually livelihood in heaven". Of course, this doesn't apply to yourself, right? How can you justify judging people's righteousness? Are you playing God?

No.

 

[MatthewG]

op: The Amazing Christ?
Warning:

Might as well 'link' This Complete Case before this thread arguing
trinitarian vs anti-trinitarian gets "locked up" with all the others...

Oh thank you for pointing that out.

But no one is Fighting.

 

[MatthewG]

Everyone be careful you might lock the thread. So don’t consume or devour or provoke one another in Christ. Thank you.

 

[Jim B]

It is you being mislead by a capitol G God in the last line at John 1:1--Its not like that in the Greek lexicons.--The true God called Ho Theos in the 2nd line, plain Theos to the word in the last line--To show the difference. Same at 2 Cor 4:4--The true God called HoTheos( God) and satan called plain Theos-(god)--the rule is the same at both spots. The only word in Greek for either God or god is Theos--thus HoTheos when it is calling the true God God and plain Theos in the same paragraph gets god.
Your scholars know its fact. It would expose over 40,000 religions claiming to be christian as false religion, billions of $$$ would be lost yearly and probably 2 billion humans suing them for taking their $$$.

Oh yes, that is undoubtedly true. There is worldwide collusion among scholars to deliberately falsify the meaning of the Greek so that they can rule the world. You, on the other hand, will save us! I am so thankful that you alone have the truth!!!

 

[Jim B]

No.

I disagree. You are clearly playing God.

 

[MatthewG]

I disagree. You are clearly playing God.

I don't think so but whatever you wanna say.

 

[MatthewG]

If anyone has a problem with what someone has said from the posts here that you believe should not be said please take it up with a moderator and surely they will be of service to you quickly as they do a good job around here.

 

[Jim B]

If anyone has a problem with what someone has said from the posts here that you believe should not be said please take it up with a moderator and surely they will be of service to you quickly as they do a good job around here.

These forums exist for discussion and debate. If you say something is true you can reasonably expect to be challenged.

Again, this is exactly what you wrote: "There will be few that find dying to the self and living for God worth while when it applies to their spiritually livelihood in heaven". By making this unfounded statement you are determining who is saved and who isn't. That is playing God.

 

[MatthewG]

These forums exist for discussion and debate. If you say something is true you can reasonably expect to be challenged.

Again, this is exactly what you wrote: "There will be few that find dying to the self and living for God worth while when it applies to their spiritually livelihood in heaven". By making this unfounded statement you are determining who is saved and who isn't. That is playing God.

@Jim B, let me try to reason with you why I see that - a person is told to build up on things spiritually, and you tell me if it is worth while or not worth while.

Have you read these scriptures before by Paul writing to the Galatians?

Galatians 6:7-9​

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.


Please take a look here, and tell me if building on spiritual things are not beneficial to a person in their life having chosen to live a life for God and have love for God first, and to love others, with and by walking in faith, by the spirit, in faith of the Gospel of Christ.

Jesus says this to his disciples, do you remember this too?

Matthew 6
Treasures in Heaven
(Luke 12:32–34)

19Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rustc destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

So I do believe that a persons spiritual building they build on Christ, will go on with that person in the after life, and God will reward them.

Hebrews 11:6 He that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him"

I believe this all has to do with the spiritual body a person builds up now; strong in faith towards God and confidence in the Gospel of Christ, to live a life for God and to love God and to love others, in Christ - as hard as it is dying to the self as Paul talks about in Romans, and perhaps one other place. It is about dying with Christ, being buried with Christ, and being raised again in Christ.


These of course are my opinions from my understand of scripture and I am capable of being wrong just like any other person but please hear me out on why I see the reason for the life of the believer to be built up on spiritual foundation, in spiritual principles that help them life (through all the body aches, people lost, bad or good experiences - with God in it.

 

[Rich R]

So here is your problem: Where did God ask us to accept things that make no sense whatsoever? God is the epitome of logic (think of the word logos).

I hate to inform you but logic -- "making sense" -- won't gain the understanding needed. That is why the Pharisees and Sadducees missed the Christ. Their logic got in the way of true spiritual knowledge. Unfortunately that is the case with many people today.

I used to be an atheist. I had everything "all figured out" because the thinking about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit wasn't logical. I thank God forever that He showed me His love and His truth!

Logic will get you nowhere, my friend. Faith -- trusting God and believing -- is the only answer.

Everything we write to others has to be logical if we want them to understand what we write.

Paul "reasoned" to this audiences from the scriptures (Acts 17:2, 18:4, 18:9, and 24:25)

The word "reasoned" is the Greek word "dialegomai" which is composed of two words, "dia" (through) and "lego." The Greek word also"logos" comes from "lego." It seems Paul saw the value of convincing people by using logic. He never asked them to believe anything that was illogical, which Webster defines as, "invalid or incorrect reasoning ".

To have faith in something requires that we are familiar with it and trust it. I have faith that the chair I sit in will not collapse based on years of experience. It is quite impossible to have real faith in something we can't understand. Technically, nobody actually believes God is 3 persons in one as that does not register in our God designed brains. We all know that a son and a father can in nowise be one person. There is no indication that God changed the meanings of either "son" or "father." We must read the scriptures with an understanding of what words mean if we want to get the intended message.

 

[Jim B]

@Jim B, let me try to reason with you why I see that - a person is told to build up on things spiritually, and you tell me if it is worth while or not worth while.

Have you read these scriptures before by Paul writing to the Galatians?

Galatians 6:7-9​

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.


Please take a look here, and tell me if building on spiritual things are not beneficial to a person in their life having chosen to live a life for God and have love for God first, and to love others, with and by walking in faith, by the spirit, in faith of the Gospel of Christ.

Jesus says this to his disciples, do you remember this too?

Matthew 6
Treasures in Heaven
(Luke 12:32–34)

19Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rustc destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

So I do believe that a persons spiritual building they build on Christ, will go on with that person in the after life, and God will reward them.

Hebrews 11:6 He that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him"

I believe this all has to do with the spiritual body a person builds up now; strong in faith towards God and confidence in the Gospel of Christ, to live a life for God and to love God and to love others, in Christ - as hard as it is dying to the self as Paul talks about in Romans, and perhaps one other place. It is about dying with Christ, being buried with Christ, and being raised again in Christ.


These of course are my opinions from my understand of scripture and I am capable of being wrong just like any other person but please hear me out on why I see the reason for the life of the believer to be built up on spiritual foundation, in spiritual principles that help them life (through all the body aches, people lost, bad or good experiences - with God in it.

I agree with what you have written here. It is sound doctrine.

However, this is what you wrote earlier: "There will be few that find dying to the self and living for God worth while when it applies to their spiritually livelihood in heaven". This is clearly judging others whom you don't know. This is just a wholesale condemnation of people.

There is a vast difference between understanding what Scripture says about one's faith and living a life for God and loving others and judging a group of people whom you have never met.

 

[Jim B]

Everything we write to others has to be logical if we want them to understand what we write.

Paul "reasoned" to this audiences from the scriptures (Acts 17:2, 18:4, 18:9, and 24:25)

The word "reasoned" is the Greek word "dialegomai" which is composed of two words, "dia" (through) and "lego." The Greek word also"logos" comes from "lego." It seems Paul saw the value of convincing people by using logic. He never asked them to believe anything that was illogical, which Webster defines as, "invalid or incorrect reasoning ".

To have faith in something requires that we are familiar with it and trust it. I have faith that the chair I sit in will not collapse based on years of experience. It is quite impossible to have real faith in something we can't understand. Technically, nobody actually believes God is 3 persons in one as that does not register in our God designed brains. We all know that a son and a father can in nowise be one person. There is no indication that God changed the meanings of either "son" or "father." We must read the scriptures with an understanding of what words mean if we want to get the intended message.

Nobody actually believes God is three persons in one? Really? There are many millions of people who believe that because that is what the Bible says is true. It has been part of Christian doctrine for roughly 2,000 years.

When you say that "We all know that a son and a father can in nowise be one person", I'm not sure who "we all" refers to. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three aspects of the one true God. That is fundamental Christian doctrine. If you can't understand that using rational logic, then so be it. Try thinking "outside the box".

The doctrine is formally called Trinitarianism. Here is the definition: Trinitarianism is the Christian doctrine that God exists as three persons (Greek hypostases) but is one being. The persons are understood to exist as God the Father, God the Son, (incarnate as Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit, each of them having the one identical essence or nature, not merely similar natures. (wikipedia) [my emphasis]

I'm sure that you have read Hebrews 11, the great chapter on faith. Here is verse 1: "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." (NRSVue) But you wrote, "It is quite impossible to have real faith in something we can't understand." So which, is right? God's word or your opinion?

 

[Rich R]

Nobody actually believes God is three persons in one? Really? There are many millions of people who believe that because that is what the Bible says is true. It has been part of Christian doctrine for roughly 2,000 years.

When you say that "We all know that a son and a father can in nowise be one person", I'm not sure who "we all" refers to. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three aspects of the one true God. That is fundamental Christian doctrine. If you can't understand that using rational logic, then so be it. Try thinking "outside the box".

The doctrine is formally called Trinitarianism. Here is the definition: Trinitarianism is the Christian doctrine that God exists as three persons (Greek hypostases) but is one being. The persons are understood to exist as God the Father, God the Son, (incarnate as Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit, each of them having the one identical essence or nature, not merely similar natures. (wikipedia) [my emphasis]

I'm sure that you have read Hebrews 11, the great chapter on faith. Here is verse 1: "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." (NRSVue) But you wrote, "It is quite impossible to have real faith in something we can't understand." So which, is right? God's word or your opinion?

You don't understand what the words, "we all" mean? I think you do.

If "we all" didn't agree on the meaning of words communication would be impossible. I perfectly understand what you said to me. All the words you used have commonly accepted meaning with which I am totally familiar.

I am familiar with the actual trinity doctrine having attended Catholic school for 12 years. Here's the thing though, why did we have to wait for 300 years for a council to come up with words to explain the trinity? "Essence" is not found in the scriptures. If God wanted us to understand that he was not an actual loving person, but a thing, an essence, I think He could have told us that. And I don't like the fact that those who came up with the doctrine were actively trying to meld Greek philosophy with the scriptures, Augustine being one of the most ardent supporters of the effort. I'm not making that up. It is an easily verifiable historic fact.

Hebrews 11 has a context and it has nothing to do with accepting anything by blind faith. Nothing God told those OT believers was outside the realm of reality and logic. They believed Jesus was coming. There's nothing illogical about that. It was a distinct possibility that God would send a savior. People have sent out saviors since time began. We all (including you my brother) know that there is nothing out of the ordinary about a savior. Of course Jesus was the savior extraordinaire!

I will take the scriptures over any thousands year old doctrine any day of the week. While I do see, The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three aspects of the one true God" in the catechisms, I don't see any such statement in the scriptures. Such an idea may be "derived" from the scriptures, but people can also "derive" that God is an alien from outer space! I just believe what they say without "deriving" anything beyond what they say. They say Jesus is the son of God and that's where I stop thinking about things that make no sense. I can easily understand what a son and father are. Corinthians says the only the Father is God (1 Cor 8:6). Jesus said the same thing (John 17:3). Those are verses that anyone with an 8th grade reading level can understand. Going beyond what they say is spoken about in Revelation (Rev 22:18). I care not to add, "The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three aspects of the one true God." to God's already perfect word.

 

[Keiw]

Oh yes, that is undoubtedly true. There is worldwide collusion among scholars to deliberately falsify the meaning of the Greek so that they can rule the world. You, on the other hand, will save us! I am so thankful that you alone have the truth!!!

I am not alone. Jesus heads the JW congregation-8 million worldwide. Jesus said-Few would find the road.

 

[MatthewG]

I agree with what you have written here. It is sound doctrine.

However, this is what you wrote earlier: "There will be few that find dying to the self and living for God worth while when it applies to their spiritually livelihood in heaven". This is clearly judging others whom you don't know. This is just a wholesale condemnation of people.

There is a vast difference between understanding what Scripture says about one's faith and living a life for God and loving others and judging a group of people whom you have never met.

Yeah even people who are Muslim or of Islam?

Listen my friend, I’m just saying that for some people they won’t give a damn.

Don’t you think there are people who are like that about God sometimes?

I’m not judging; people can make their choice; God had a place set up for people that want nothing to do with him who are said to be outside the Kingdom.

Though most say nope! That is not how it works; yet the John states it.

 

[MatthewG]

So hope you can drop what I did say and just move forward @Jim B I’m a person who is always capable of making mistakes and being wrong about the Bible: may the spirit guide people to the truth and everyone test all things.

 

[Jack]

I am not alone. Jesus heads the JW congregation-8 million worldwide. Jesus said-Few would find the road.

Kingdom Hall has a different Jesus than Christians. God is our Savior!

Hosea 13
4 You shall know no God but Me; For there is no Savior besides Me.