For the record, you brought up this passage, I did not. And I don't cite it as a proof text for a pre-trib rapture.The scripture below dosent even imply or suggest a pre-trib rapture, its a fabricated man made fairy tale
Much love!
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For the record, you brought up this passage, I did not. And I don't cite it as a proof text for a pre-trib rapture.The scripture below dosent even imply or suggest a pre-trib rapture, its a fabricated man made fairy tale
The verse below is talking about the church that will overcome during the tribulation "On Earth", the church that wont be raptured away from the tribulation as you teach and suggestAre you thinking this is meant to apply here on earth during our terrestrial lives?
Much love!
IMHO, if any Christian believer is deceived then 2 things happened.This is the reason so many Christians will be deceived by the government's and religious leaders in the final hours... You are associating the state of the church with the political environment. They bear no relation to one another.
I see what you are saying. It would be easier if you were more direct and less, what should I say, derisive?The verse below is talking about the church that will overcome during the tribulation "On Earth", the church that wont be raptured away from the tribulation as you teach and suggest
You create a distraction from this truth, trying to replace the reward found in the Eternal, before the overcoming on earth "Error"
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out:
You suggest in error that the church will escape the hour of earth's temptation by being raptured to heaven away from this temptation?I see what you are saying. It would be easier if you were more direct and less, what should I say, derisive?
You are saying "overcometh" is something that will only happen during the "tribulation"?
Much love!
Revelation 3:10 is cited as a standard verse, in claiming a pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven by those following dispensationalism, are you new to the subject of eschatology?For the record, you brought up this passage, I did not. And I don't cite it as a proof text for a pre-trib rapture.
Much love!
I beg your pardon, but you most definitely need discernment!Well teh chruch will not be herwe for the 7 years of tribulation or the mark of the beast. I do not need discernment- we have the bible that tells us this. So we need not discern, but rejoice that God has delivere4d us from that wrath to come.
You need to get me separated in your mind from others. YOU were the one who brought up this verse. I've asked a couple of questions, that you don't seem to want to answer, just the same, you brought up this verse. We can talk about something else.You suggest in error that the church will escape the hour of earth's temptation by being raptured to heaven away from this temptation?
Try not to assume my point of view.Revelation 3:10 is cited as a standard verse, in claiming a pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven by those following dispensationalism, are you new to the subject of eschatology?
Ok you dont see Revelation 3:10 as a pre-trib rapture as dispensationalism does, then we agreeYou need to get me separated in your mind from others. YOU were the one who brought up this verse. I've asked a couple of questions, that you don't seem to want to answer, just the same, you brought up this verse. We can talk about something else.
Much love!
I am posting to the standard claims of a pre-trib rapture within dispensationalism and not your belief, still waiting for your scripture in support of a pre-trib rapture?Try not to assume my point of view.
And Revelation 4:1 is cited also, but not by me.
I think you are assuming my arguments, and then arguing against what you assume I think.
Much love!
It saddens me that I've yet to find anyone who can hold to a real debate on that topic!
Just like you start off with the insults, I can't find anyone to debate rapture timing who doesn't dissolve into insults and fallacies.
It's too bad!
Well teh chruch will not be herwe for the 7 years of tribulation or the mark of the beast. I do not need discernment- we have the bible that tells us this. So we need not discern, but rejoice that God has delivere4d us from that wrath to come.
Well said, it might come to disagreement so what, no need in resorting to hyper sensitivity and personal attacksDo not take this the wrong way, But perhaps if you would not be so easily offended by those who disagree with you, You could have these debates. I Have tried showing you from scripture my Pre wrath views, How My timelines work, But it is you who get defensive and offended thus hindering dialogue.
I Disagree with @Truth7t7, But we can still have dialog about eschatology and respect one another's positions. You should try this sometime. Instead of trying to convert everyone to your own opinion, just present your opinion and let the facts speak for themselves.
You and many others who hold to the belief systems of "church-ianity" are in for a terrible rude awakening, and will not escape.
As for "flaming fire" please notice my quoted words in the following verse, "same day" and "revealed":
Flaming Fire- Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Now compare that with 2 Thes. 1:7-10, paying particuliar attention to the word "when":
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] WHEN he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that [same] day.
Q. When is when?
A. When Jesus is revealed from Heaven....in flaming fire...
When He shall come to be Glorified in His saints....
See Luke 17:29-30 again.
Yes! And what I quoted and said to you, is the Word of God, "understand"?
Evidently not! Because if you did, you wouldn't have replied in the manner that you did!
"Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have." Luke 8:16-18
All of God's dreams, visions, parables and prophecy are subject to interpretation. Whether, that interpretation is performed by our own analytical and logical mind or by the Holy Spirit of God within us, each conclude two entirely different situations. The former is contrived, whereas latter is revealed.
In the very last days, (not yet but soon) what we see here...IMHO, if any Christian believer is deceived then 2 things happened.
1. The pastor did not teach them how not to be deceived by obeying what His Word says
And
2. The individual put too much trust in the pastor to teach them without studying scripture for themselves and allowing the Holy Spirit to guide them into the knowledge of His Truth.
Obeying what the Word commanded.
Do not take this the wrong way, But perhaps if you would not be so easily offended by those who disagree with you, You could have these debates. I Have tried showing you from scripture my Pre wrath views, How My timelines work, But it is you who get defensive and offended thus hindering dialogue.
I Disagree with @Truth7t7, But we can still have dialog about eschatology and respect one another's positions. You should try this sometime. Instead of trying to convert everyone to your own opinion, just present your opinion and let the facts speak for themselves.
Hey David, I have not seen your outline, but it seems from the paragraph above that you believe the church goes through the whole ordeal (post tribber), which is what I teach people.
Am I correct in my thinking about your position?
After I get an answer, I will ask you a question, or set of questions.
In the USA, the majority of the population still identifies as Christian, even if only marginally so. Combine that with the highest rates of gun ownership in the world and you have the perfect makings of civil warfare.What is Prophesied to happen next, will be so sudden, shocking and world changing, that people will have trouble readjusting to a world quite different to what we know today. Isaiah 48:3, Jeremiah 25:30-32
There will be a choice; become a member of the One World Government, or migrate to the holy Land and join the new Christian nation of Beulah. Isaiah 35, Isaiah 66:7-24, Isaiah 62:1-12, Ezekiel 34:1-16, Romans 9:24-26, +
As you say: the Church is not prepared. Mostly they have been taught and believe false ideas like being 'raptured' away from it all. Not going to happen, we must stand firm in our faith thru it all.