The Church Is The Israel Of God, Children Of The Promised Seed

[Timtofly]

That's a contradiction because if you see that God's point is that He does not want another earthly temple then my point, by using those scripture alone, means that you did "get the point;" you just can't admit it.

None of those verses contradict Matthew 25:31. Your interpretation does.

 

[Timtofly]

And then there is Keras that "seems to think he knows better than God; of what He wants and what He plans to do" but his false agenda will burn with the fires along with his other false doctrines.

No, Keras just knows God's Word better than all of the Amils trying to deny God's Word with other verses from God's Word. Fighting against God, even with Scripture is not wise, but full of man's wisdom and theology.

In your reference to a future "millennial kingdom in Rev 20"

...Jesus answered, "My kingship is not of this world; if my kingship were of this world, my servants would fight, that I might not be handed over to the Jews; but my kingship is not from the world." (John 18:36)​

Sounds like your Millennium did not start at the Cross, but it will start at the Second Coming. This verse is all pre-mil need, to refute a Millennium in the here and now. Of course the earth is not the kingship of Jesus right now. That happens at the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 11:15-18

 

[ewq1938]

Here are some of the prophesies about a new Temple and how offerings will be made in it:
Psalm 51:18-19 Now Lord, show Your favour to Zion and rebuild Jerusalem. Then You will delight in the appointed sacrifices, young bulls will be offered in Your altar.

The word "temple" isn't even in the verse!

Jeremiah 17:24-26 Now, if you obey the Lord’s Commandments, then a ruler will again occupy David’s throne and Jerusalem will be inhabited forever. Then people will come bringing whole offerings, sacrifices as thank offerings to the Lord’s House.

The divorce and loss of the old covenant and the cross changed everything. Christ was the last sacrifice!

Jeremiah 33:14-18 The days are coming when I shall bless Judah and Israel…….there will always be a Levitical Priest to burn the grain and other offerings every day.

lol, obviously there are no Priest burning grain and has in centuries.

Ezekiel 45:13-25 The details of and the dates for making all the sacrifices and offerings on the Altar of the Temple.

That's not prophecy. It was a pattern Israel was supposed to copy and live the way described. They didn't do it.

Isaiah 60:6-7 Livestock in droves will be in the Land to serve your needs, as acceptable offerings on My Altar and I will adorn My glorious Temple.

The divorce and loss of the old covenant and the cross changed everything. Christ was the last sacrifice!

 

[covenantee]

I'll add this to that:

Jesus is NOT reigning over His enemies now - according to Scripture

To reign means to rule over people and have complete control. Look around at the world. ISIS is murdering Christians and harming the growth of the gospel. The world is full is false gods and religions and evil practices.

It is clear someone else reigns this wicked, morally corrupt world currently:

Joh 14:29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

Prince here doesn't mean second in command or something like we think in modern English, it means the ruler, the first in rank or power:

G758
a?´????
archo¯n
ar'-khone
Present participle of G757; a first (in rank or power): - chief (ruler), magistrate, prince, ruler.


G758
a?´????
archo¯n
Thayer Definition:
1) a ruler, commander, chief, leader
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: present participle of G757
Citing in TDNT: 1:488, 81

According to Christ, the ruler of this world was to come after Christ left. We know from Rev 12 that after He ascended there was a war in heaven and satan was cast to the Earth just as Christ said would happen. According to Jesus Christ himself, the one reigning/ruling the world after His ascension would be satan!

Apparently the premil bible doesn't contain the following Scriptures.

If you have a premil bible omitting these Scriptures, toss it in the round file without delay.


John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Romans 8
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

1 Corinthians 15:57
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 2:14
Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

Colossians 2:15
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

1 John 4
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 John 5:5
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

 

[Truman]

I was fine with believing that the church replaced Israel, was now in fact Israel. I was, after all, an English-Canadian Christian.
Then one Sunday morning, after leading Sunday morning worship, the Lord spoke to me. He said, "You are a Levite!"
A quarter century later, I now see that the gentile church is part of the commonwealth of Israel. And that I'm an ancestor of Aaron.
I wonder why He wanted me to know all of this.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Jesus is NOT reigning over His enemies now - according to Scripture

I notice that you were unable to dispute the words Jesus spoke of his kingdom on earth in...

...Jesus answered, "My kingship is not of this world; if my kingship were of this world, my servants would fight, that I might not be handed over to the Jews; but my kingship is not from the world." (John 18:36)
"...they came up to him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!" and struck him with their hands." Jhn 19:3

..I am the LORD, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King."Isa 43:15.

...Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. (Ex. 19:5).

...Behold, to the LORD your God belong heaven and the heaven of heavens, the earth with all that is in it; Deu 10:14

..."Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. Matt 2:2

"Tell the daughter of Zion, Behold, your king is coming to you, humble, and mounted on an ass, and on a colt, the foal of an ass." Mat 21:5

...Now Jesus stood before the governor; and the governor asked him, "Are you the King of the Jews?" Jesus said, "You have said so." Mat 27:11

...and plaiting a crown of thorns they put it on his head, and put a reed in his right hand. And kneeling before him they mocked him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!"Mat 27:29

...And over his head they put the charge against him, which read, "This is Jesus the King of the Jews."Mat 27:37
Mar 15:26

...He is the King of Israel; Mat 27:42

...Let the Christ, the King of Israel, come down...Mar 15:32

..."Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord! Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!"Luk 19:38

...Nathan'a-el answered him, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!" Jhn 1:49

..."Fear not, daughter of Zion; behold, your king is coming, sitting on an ass's colt!" Jhn 12:15

...To the King of ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen. 1Tim 1:17

...that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phil 2:10-11

...and this will be made manifest at the proper time by the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 1Tim 6:15

...And they sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, "Great and wonderful are thy deeds, O Lord God the Almighty! Just and true are thy ways, O King of the ages! Rev 15:3..​

Instead you posted only your personal opinion and deny Jesus was crowned King . Opinions without scripture support does nothing. Jesus' kingdom is not like "the Kings of England" where they rule earthlings from an earthly throne. Christ is King, but His kingdom is not of this present world. His is a spiritual and eternal kingdom. In the kingship of Christ there are 3 elements that define His Kingdom:

1) He must have absolute sovereignty
2) He must have people to rule
3) He must have a definite territory under His domain.​

In a spiritual sense, Christ has all three of these now. He is now seated on his throne the right hand of the Father (Act 2:34; Heb. 1:3; Rev 3:21)

 

[Moriah's Song]

No, Keras just knows God's Word better than all of the Amils trying to deny God's Word

"Two peas in a pod" I would say.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Sounds like your Millennium did not start at the Cross,

Actually God's Kingdom always has been, still is, and will always be...it's spiritual only. No earthly temple and crown needed.

Isa 43:15...I am the LORD, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King."​

Are you a part of God's Kingdom?

 

[Moriah's Song]

Of course the earth is not the kingship of Jesus right now.

Actually God's Kingdom always has been, still is, and will always be...it's spiritual only. No earthly temple and crown needed.

..."I am the LORD, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King."Isa 43:15...

...Nathan'a-el answered him, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!" Jhn 1:49​

Jesus never wanted to be king of every political nation on earth. That's what dispensationalists want FOR HIM but a re-do of sacrifices would be an abomination after having died once-and-for-all on the cross. It just is NOT going to happen even in Jerusalem at any time in the future before the Last Day at the end of the world

 

[Moriah's Song]

None of those verses contradict Matthew 25:31. Your interpretation does.

Matthew 25:31-46 is all about Judgment Day. But let's look at Genesis 18:25 first...

"Far be it from thee to do such a thing, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous fare as the wicked! Far be that from thee! Shall not the judge of all the earth do right?"​

Genesis 18:25 makes it clear that Matthew 25:31-46 is all about separating the righteous from the unrighteous on the same day - Judgment Day.

Verse 46..."And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. ​

May I ask why you did not read the whole chapter and see this for yourself?

 

[Timtofly]

Actually God's Kingdom always has been, still is, and will always be...it's spiritual only. No earthly temple and crown needed.

..."I am the LORD, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King."Isa 43:15...

...Nathan'a-el answered him, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!" Jhn 1:49​

Jesus never wanted to be king of every political nation on earth. That's what dispensationalists want FOR HIM but a re-do of sacrifices would be an abomination after having died once-and-for-all on the cross. It just is NOT going to happen even in Jerusalem at any time in the future before the Last Day at the end of the world

Can you make up your mind? Spiritual and Physical are both current creation. You said the kingdom was not physical on earth. Then you change to it, to it is only spiritual.

I agree with both. But God is going to restore creation and remove that spiritual blindness. Then the physical presence of Jesus Christ will not be an issue. Stop thinking like a first century Pharisee.

May I ask why you did not read the whole chapter and see this for yourself?

May I get your point?

 

[Moriah's Song]

You said the kingdom was not physical on earth.

This is true....BUT your view and my view of "kingdom on earth" is totally different.

~ You have a 1,000 year millennium with a literal "new temple" and Christ returning to that "literal" temple for his "literal kingdom on earth."
~ My view of "kingdom on earth" is that Christ rules his "kingdom believers" who are on earth throughout this age from above and until the end of the ages...and yet it is a "spiritual kingdom" without a literal "new temple" and a 1,000 year reign. God "rules" from his Word by the power of the Holy Spirit in the meantime.

But your reference to Matt. 25:31-46 does not in any way support your view and I don't understand how you could miss the truth of the righteous and the unrighteous being "on earth" together until the "one-and-only" second coming at the General Resurrection on the Last Day.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Stop thinking like a first century Pharisee.

Not nice Tim!

 

[Timtofly]

This is true....BUT your view and my view of "kingdom on earth" is totally different.

~ You have a 1,000 year millennium with a literal "new temple" and Christ returning to that "literal" temple for his "literal kingdom on earth."
~ My view of "kingdom on earth" is that Christ rules his "kingdom believers" who are on earth throughout this age from above and until the end of the ages...and yet it is a "spiritual kingdom" without a literal "new temple" and a 1,000 year reign. God "rules" from his Word by the power of the Holy Spirit in the meantime.

But your reference to Matt. 25:31-46 does not in any way support your view and I don't understand how you could miss the truth of the righteous and the unrighteous being "on earth" together until the "one-and-only" second coming at the General Resurrection on the Last Day.

Seems you do not accept a Second Coming. The first coming brought Jesus to earth, no. Would not the Second Coming do the same?

The Cross was also the last day resurrection. Not sure how you can miss the point the OT redeemed came out of their graves.

 

[Moriah's Song]

The Cross was also the last day resurrection.

Describe with verses as to what you mean by that please.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Sounds like your Millennium did not start at the Cross,

Actually, it did start at the cross....as a "symbol" of an unlimited number of years and will end when Christ returns whenever the "fullness of the Gentiles" is in which will complete the ongoing "Israel of God's" church; (Ephesians 2) composed Jews and Gentile that make up the "true Israel of God."

 

[Timtofly]

Actually, it did start at the cross....as a "symbol" of an unlimited number of years and will end when Christ returns whenever the "fullness of the Gentiles" is in which will complete the ongoing "Israel of God's" church; (Ephesians 2) composed Jews and Gentile that make up the "true Israel of God."

So why ask that I provide Scripture, if you already are making your own claims?

Revelation 20 starts out with a resurrection. Why would your Millennium start out with a resurrection, when you claim it only ends with one?

 

[Moriah's Song]

The Cross was also the last day resurrection.

I simply asked you to provide scripture for what YOU posted just as I supplied scripture for what I posted. Why can't you?

 

[Moriah's Song]

I seems that tim can't support his claims?

 

[Timtofly]

I seems that tim can't support his claims?

Rev 20:4...Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5...The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

Mat 27:52...the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,
Mat 27:53...and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
​

52 is definitely a literal resurrection of dead saints.
53 - Where did they go? Many say "into Jerusalem." However, that cannot be because of the term "the holy city." The "holy city is a reference to the "heavenly Jerusalem."
Also, although it does not specifically say what happened to them after Christ resurrected them from their graves, it is realistic to say that they went to heaven after Jesus was raised from the dead and ascended into heaven.

This is a magnificent example of what will happen on Judgment Day.

Just an example, or the literal thing?