The gods of amil.

[Spiritual Israelite]

"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

Those already in Paradise Jesus brings with Him. They all have already risen first. No living person, not even in the first century, prevented their resurrection in the first century.

Jesus says the angels gather them from all over Paradise. Paradise is the heaven they are gathered from.

Paul states in 2 Corinthians 5:1, they already have a permanent physical body after the soul leaves this body to dissolve in death.

There was no more waiting in Abraham's bosom for the physical resurrection. That was available at the Cross.

If all are changed, then all are also resurrected. Those alive on earth will be resurrected out of Adam's state of death, this flesh, into God's permanent incorruptible physical body. The change has always been the moment the soul leaves Adam's dead flesh, for God's living physical body. The change is a resurrection, out of death into eternal life. The soul changes this outer garment for a different outer garment. The soul does not do the work, but God does the work of changing outfits.

Those in Paradise don't need to change their bodies. They would not be allowed in Paradise without God's permanent incorruptible physical body. Only those on earth at the Second Coming need to change the physical body.

Is there something about 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 that isn't clear to you? Paul very clearly taught that we will all be changed (our bodies will be changed) AT THE LAST TRUMPET. Are you claiming that the last trumpet already sounded? Or that a last trumpet sounds for each person upon their death? Please tell me your understanding of what Paul said here:

1 Corinthians 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

 

[Truth7t7]

Is there something wrong in your brain that prevents you from understanding things even after being told many times? I have told you many times that I am not a preterist. I will tell you what I believe. It's not your job to tell me what I believe.

A typical preterist believes that a coming of Jesus occurred in 70 AD. I do not believe that. A typical preterist believes that a resurrection of the dead occurred in 70 AD. I do not believe that. A typcial preterist believes that all of the Olivet Discourse was fulfilled by 70 AD. I do not believe that. A typical preterist believes that the book of Revelation was written before 70 AD. I do not believe that. A typical preterist believes that at least most of the book of Revelation is already fulfilled. Everything up to the end of Revelation 19, at least. I do not believe that.

Just because I may agree with them on a couple of things does not make me a preterist. With that logic I would also be a futurist since I agree with futurists on some things, which would render these labels to be completely meaningless and pointless.


It very specifically talks about the thousand years ending first and then Satan is loosed for a short time after the thousand years ends. It mentions that in both Revelation 20:3 and Revelation 20:7. Why would you deny something so obvious? You have a lot in common with many others here who are too stubborn to ever admit they are wrong even when it's blatantly obvious, such as in this case.


It's figurative speech representing an indefinite amount of time. It doesn't represent eternity or else it would not talk about the thousand years ending, which it does in Rev 20:3 and Rev 20:7. When it ends it will be followed by what many call "Satan's little season". And then Jesus will return at the end of that "little season". He will be the One to put and end to it.

It's my understanding that you believe and teach the two items seen below, correct me if I'm wrong?

A typical preterist believes that?

1.) Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD has been fulfilled

2.) Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation started/fulfilled in 70AD in the Roman destruction of Jerusalem

 

[Truth7t7]

Is there something wrong in your brain that prevents you from understanding things even after being told many times? I have told you many times that I am not a preterist. I will tell you what I believe. It's not your job to tell me what I believe.

A typical preterist believes that a coming of Jesus occurred in 70 AD. I do not believe that. A typical preterist believes that a resurrection of the dead occurred in 70 AD. I do not believe that. A typcial preterist believes that all of the Olivet Discourse was fulfilled by 70 AD. I do not believe that. A typical preterist believes that the book of Revelation was written before 70 AD. I do not believe that. A typical preterist believes that at least most of the book of Revelation is already fulfilled. Everything up to the end of Revelation 19, at least. I do not believe that.

Just because I may agree with them on a couple of things does not make me a preterist. With that logic I would also be a futurist since I agree with futurists on some things, which would render these labels to be completely meaningless and pointless.


It very specifically talks about the thousand years ending first and then Satan is loosed for a short time after the thousand years ends. It mentions that in both Revelation 20:3 and Revelation 20:7. Why would you deny something so obvious? You have a lot in common with many others here who are too stubborn to ever admit they are wrong even when it's blatantly obvious, such as in this case.


It's figurative speech representing an indefinite amount of time. It doesn't represent eternity or else it would not talk about the thousand years ending, which it does in Rev 20:3 and Rev 20:7. When it ends it will be followed by what many call "Satan's little season". And then Jesus will return at the end of that "little season". He will be the One to put and end to it.

Once again, (Thousand Years) is a non literal expression showing God's infinite time in the spiritual

(Thousand Years) Expiring is also a symbolic expression of that which isn't literal

You believe that (Thousand Years) is symbolic and non literal, but when you get to the word "Expire" you claim (Thousand Years) in now seeing a literal expiration time

When 2 Peter 3:8 states a day is a thousand years to the Lord, is it a literal day or thousand years "No" its referencing God is outside of time in the eternal, it's that simple

Conclusion: You want to have your cake and eat it toooo, you claim (Thousand Years) is non-literal symbolic I agree, then you try to make it literal with a time frame for it ending in earthly time "False"

That seen below is the same event in parallel teachings and is showing nothing more than God in the spiritual letting Satan perform his will that scripture might be fulfilled

"He Who Now Letteth Will Let"

"Thousand Years Expire"

2 Thessalonians 2
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Revelation 20:7
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's my understanding that you believe and teach the two items seen below, correct me if I'm wrong?

A typical preterist believes that?

1.) Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD has been fulfilled

2.) Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation started/fulfilled in 70AD in the Roman destruction of Jerusalem

Yep. Yet, as I showed, I disagree with a typical preterist on many other things. I agree with some of your futurist views. But, despite that, I'm somehow a preterist and not a futurist? The reality is that I'm neither.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yep. Yet, as I showed, I disagree with a typical preterist on many other things. I agree with some of your futurist views. But, despite that, I'm somehow a preterist and not a futurist? The reality is that I'm neither.

It's been my observation that you follow reformed preterist eschatology

You will closely note in post #80 you denied being preterist in your eschatology, hiding the fact of the two items below without mention, smiles!

The two items below are "Future" and haven't been fulfilled as reformed preterist eschatology falsely teaches, it's that simple

The major deceptive part of reformed preterist eschatology is that it denies a future human man as being the (Little Horn/Man Of Sin/The Beast) leaving their followers blind to this future evil human man in deception

Daniel's AOD starts the Future Great Tribulation, Jesus returns immediately after this (The End) Future events unfulfilled

A typical preterist believes that?

1.) Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD has been fulfilled

2.) Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation started/fulfilled in 70AD in the Roman destruction of Jerusalem

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Once again, (Thousand Years) is a non literal expression showing God's infinite time in the spiritual

(Thousand Years) Expiring is also a symbolic expression of that which isn't literal

What does that mean? Please elaborate. When do you think Satan's little season occurs in relation to the thousand years?

You believe that (Thousand Years) is symbolic and non literal, but when you get to the word "Expire" you claim (Thousand Years) in now seeing a literal expiration time

Of course I do because it talks about Satan's little season occurring afterwards. Do you just ignore that? What is your understanding of it saying that Satan is loosed for a short time after the thousand years ends?

When 2 Peter 3:8 states a day is a thousand years to the Lord, is it a literal day or thousand years "No" its referencing God is outside of time in the eternal, it's that simple

That verse has nothing to do with Revelation 20. You are trying to relate unrelated passages.

Conclusion: You want to have your cake and eat it toooo, you claim (Thousand Years) is non-literal symbolic I agree, then you try to make it literal with a time frame for it ending in earthly time "False"

Nonsense. You make it a fictional time period altogether. It's symbolic for an indefinite period of time with a beginning and ending. It clearly has an ending or else it wouldn't talk about Satan being loosed when it ends for a short time. You seem to completely ignore that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's been my observation that you follow reformed preterist eschatology

It's been my observation that you are stubborn and don't accept what I'm telling you. Just because I agree with a couple of things they believe makes me one of them? I agree with more things that futurists believe, but that doesn't count in your mind?

You will closely note in post #80 you denied being preterist in your eschatology, hiding the fact of the two items below without mention, smiles!

Wrong! Don't lie. I said I agree with them on a couple of things and listed out all the other things I disagreed with them on. I didn't know there was some law that says I had to specify the things I agreed with them on. You already know what those things are, so I didn't feel any need to specify that.

The two items below are "Future" and haven't been fulfilled as reformed preterist eschatology falsely teaches, it's that simple

That's just your opinion. I believe they are past. Should I accuse you of being a dispensationalist since you have views in common with them (even though you disagree with some things they believe as well)? Seriously, what is wrong with you? How does agreeing with a couple of things of one view make me as if I am just like them in everything I believe? That is nonsense. Calling me a preterist makes no more sense than me calling you a dispensationalist.

The major deceptive part of reformed preterist eschatology is that it denies a future human man as being the (Little Horn/Man Of Sin/The Beast) leaving their followers blind to this future evil human man in deception

Give me a break. As believers, we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, giving us discernment. That is not a concern for me or anyone else who disagrees with that view. A problem with that view is that many waste a lot of time trying to figure out who this imaginary person is or will be.

Daniel's AOD starts the Future Great Tribulation, Jesus returns immediately after this (The End) Future events unfulfilled

A typical preterist believes that?

No. Who said they did? A typical Amillennialist believes that Jesus returns immediately after a time of spiritual rebellion (Satan's little season) which is described in 2nd Thessalonians 2.

 

[Truth7t7]

It's been my observation that you are stubborn and don't accept what I'm telling you. Just because I agree with a couple of things they believe makes me one of them? I agree with more things that futurists believe, but that doesn't count in your mind?


Wrong! Don't lie. I said I agree with them on a couple of things and listed out all the other things I disagreed with them on. I didn't know there was some law that says I had to specify the things I agreed with them on. You already know what those things are, so I didn't feel any need to specify that.


That's just your opinion. I believe they are past. Should I accuse you of being a dispensationalist since you have views in common with them (even though you disagree with some things they believe as well)? Seriously, what is wrong with you? How does agreeing with a couple of things of one view make me as if I am just like them in everything I believe? That is nonsense. Calling me a preterist makes no more sense than me calling you a dispensationalist.


Give me a break. As believers, we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, giving us discernment. That is not a concern for me or anyone else who disagrees with that view. A problem with that view is that many waste a lot of time trying to figure out who this imaginary person is or will be.


No. Who said they did? A typical Amillennialist believes that Jesus returns immediately after a time of spiritual rebellion (Satan's little season) which is described in 2nd Thessalonians 2.

I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture or millennial kingdom such as dispensationalism does, your claim I follow their teachings is "False"

I don't believe Matthew Chapter 24 has been fulfilled, I don't believe the (Little Horn/Man Of Sin/The Beast) is an imaginary person, such a you do, following the false teachings in reformed preterist eschatology

You deny a future Daniels AOD, a future Great Tribulation, and a future literal human man the (Little Horn/Man Of Sin/The Beast)

Reformed Preterist Eschatology is dangerous deception, that hides the future events of the (Little Horn/Man Of Sin/The Beast) "Scary"!

My Bible And God The Holy Spirit That Dwells Within Me, Warns Against Reformed Preterist False Teachings, "Reader Beware"!

"Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means"

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3KJV
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Timtofly]

Is there something about 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 that isn't clear to you? Paul very clearly taught that we will all be changed (our bodies will be changed) AT THE LAST TRUMPET. Are you claiming that the last trumpet already sounded? Or that a last trumpet sounds for each person upon their death? Please tell me your understanding of what Paul said here:

1 Corinthians 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Those alive on earth.

Those in Paradise already have a permanent incorruptible physical body.

They would still be a soul in Abraham's bosom, according to you, because they are still waiting for a physical body according to you.

They are not. The physical resurrection was available at the Cross. Paradise was opened at the Cross. The thief entered with a physical body that day, not in the yet to come Second Coming.

Paul is not still waiting. Paul is no longer on the earth. Paul's status is now "we in Paradise in God's permanent incorruptible physical body". You can not prevent that on earth with your belief system. It is already a fact. Paul did not write that as one already dead in Paradise, but as one living in Adam's dead corruptible flesh on earth. Paul's status has changed.

 

[Truth7t7]

Those in Paradise already have a permanent incorruptible physical body.

The physical resurrection was available at the Cross. Paradise was opened at the Cross. The thief entered with a physical body that day, not in the yet to come Second Coming.

Your Claims Are "False" Way Out In Left Field, The Resurrection And Glorified Body Is Received In The Future Resurrection On The Last Day

There are (Two) resurrections on the (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life
2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture or millennial kingdom such as dispensationalism does, your claim I follow their teachings is "False"

But you agree with dispensationalists on some things. Does that make you a dispensationalist? No, right? I'm sure you would agree. The same thing goes for me. I disagree with preterists on many things. So, agreeing with them on a couple things does not make me a preterist. I know you are not dumb, so you must understand my point here. But, maybe you're too stubborn to acknowledge it?

I don't believe Matthew Chapter 24 has been fulfilled,

Neither do dispensationalists. Does that make you a dispensationalist?

I don't believe the (Little Horn/Man Of Sin/The Beast) is an imaginary person, such a you do, following the false teachings in reformed preterist eschatology

I don't get that belief from "reformed preterist eschatology". If I happen to agree with them on that, so be it, but I also disagree with them on many other things. So, just stop your childish nonsense and don't put a label on me that doesn't belong.

 

[Truth7t7]

But you agree with dispensationalists on some things. Does that make you a dispensationalist? No, right? I'm sure you would agree. The same thing goes for me. I disagree with preterists on many things. So, agreeing with them on a couple things does not make me a preterist. I know you are not dumb, so you must understand my point here. But, maybe you're too stubborn to acknowledge it?


Neither do dispensationalists. Does that make you a dispensationalist?


I don't get that belief from "reformed preterist eschatology". If I happen to agree with them on that, so be it, but I also disagree with them on many other things. So, just stop your childish nonsense and don't put a label on me that doesn't belong.

The Olivet discourse is the test for determining one eschatology

You believe Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD & Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation has been fulfilled, your "Preterist" in your eschatology, nothing childish whatsoever as you deflect from this fact

I'm futurist in my belief, I believe the scripture mentioned hasn't been fulfilled

If it makes you feel good to put me in dispensationalisms camp have at it no problem, I deny a pre-trib rapture and Millennial Kingdom on earth

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Olivet discourse is the test for determining one eschatology

You believe Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD & Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation has been fulfilled, your "Preterist" in your eschatology, nothing childish whatsoever as you deflect from this fact

What is childish is that you continue to put a label on me that doesn't belong. I could use similar logic and put the dispensationalist label on you, but that wouldn't be fair since you only agree with that belief system on some things, but also disagree with it on some things.

I'm futurist in my belief, I believe the scripture mentioned hasn't been fulfilled

Yes, I understand that. You have made that clear by repeating it at least 100 times by now.

If it makes you feel good to put me in dispensationalisms camp have at it no problem,

No, I'm not going to put you in that camp because I know you're not in that camp. And I am not in the preterist camp, either. I'm not going to waste any more time talking about this.

 

[ewq1938]

There are (Two) resurrections on the (Last Day)

Truth7t7 knows this is false. Rev 20 speaks of only one group resurrection on that last day.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The beheaded saints live! That is a resurrection. Do the unsaved dead also resurrect with the dead saints? NO!

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


The rest of the dead (not saved, not taking part in the first resurrection) HAVE TO WAIT to live again! Amill denies this truth!


The last day resurrection:

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


There are two resurrections of the dead, but NOT on the same day.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Truth7t7 knows this is false. Rev 20 speaks of only one group resurrection on that last day.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The beheaded saints live! That is a resurrection. Do the unsaved dead also resurrect with the dead saints? NO!

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


The rest of the dead (not saved, not taking part in the first resurrection) HAVE TO WAIT to live again! Amill denies this truth!


The last day resurrection:

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


There are two resurrections of the dead, but NOT on the same day.

Such ignorance. Jesus very clearly taught that those who are saved will be resurrected on the last day and here you are denying such an obvious truth.

John 6:40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

 

[Timtofly]

The Olivet discourse is the test for determining one eschatology

You believe Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD & Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation has been fulfilled, your "Preterist" in your eschatology, nothing childish whatsoever as you deflect from this fact

I'm futurist in my belief, I believe the scripture mentioned hasn't been fulfilled

If it makes you feel good to put me in dispensationalisms camp have at it no problem, I deny a pre-trib rapture and Millennial Kingdom on earth

Jesus Is The Lord

Revelation 20 is still future, since it is not John's fabricated fairy tale.

Some amil fabricate Revelation 20 as the current fairy tale of the here and now of their imagination.

 

[Timtofly]

Such ignorance. Jesus very clearly taught that those who are saved will be resurrected on the last day and here you are denying such an obvious truth.

John 6:40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

That was the Cross, the last day of the OT economy when the veil was torn from top to bottom. All the OT redeemed were resurrected that day.

The thief died after the last day event and was the first NT redeemed to directly enter Paradise without visiting Abraham's bosom.

The last day resurrection being the Cross does not contradict Scripture. Your interpretation contradicts Scripture and reality.

 

[Gilligan]

You need to repent of your lying ways or you are going to end up in hell. You can't say you haven't been warned.

Thanks much.

If you have no conscience about lying, as seems to be the case, then what does that say about you?

That not believing you, is not believing God?

. We're not perfect as Christians,

Speak for yourself.

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

The Amil doctrine absolutely does NOT teach that we are "as gods in heaven and on earth".

Of course not. Only the spirit-only millennialists, teach they are now immortally reigning in heaven and on earth.

That is a lie and nothing more. Why do you feel the need to lie about Amil?

I don't even have an argument with amils, that simply say there is no millennial reign of Christ ever on earth, and move on.

It teaches that we spiritually have part in Jesus's bodily resurrection.

And so you teach you are resurrected, since there is no such thing as spirit-only resurrection in the Bible.

The only resurrection in Scripture, is bodily.

Now, if you say you are born again and raised by the Spirit of Christ, from the death of sins and trespasses.

Then you would be correct. That is not a resurrection from the dead. You perversely calling it that, in order to inexplicably reject Christ's Millennium on earth, is saying the resurrection is past, because you are already resurrected from the dead.

You are not in any manner resurrected and reigning in heaven and on earth.

Send me one of the angels you rule over in heaven, and prove me wrong, or come yourself down from heaven long enough to tell me yourself.

We who are alive are obviously not reigning in heaven literally.

Then stop saying you are. There is only one way to reign in heaven, and that is spiritually. Spiritual reining in heaven is literally true. And only God and the Father and Son reign in heaven.

According to Paul, we reign with Christ in heavenly places in a spiritual and figurative sense, but not literally.

Oh, so you reigning 'figuratively'. Well, why didn't you just say so. If you made sure everyone knew your teaching is figuraative-only, then no one would bother arguing with it. I figuratively reign on Mt Rushmore.

Spirit-only 'figurative' reigning is the vain imagination, that is the equivalent of having dead faith alone.

It's nothing but words of the air, sounding all airy and sprite-like.

Your figurative reign has just as much substance to it as Don Quixote.

You're just treating the word of God as figurative, so that you can claim to be doing the figurative word.

We believe that the souls of the dead in Christ are literally in heaven now and reign with Christ there.

True. Their bodies remain dead in the grave, waiting to be bodily resurrected in the likeness of Jesus' bodily resurrection.

And they're not reigning there, but pleading with the Lord to come again and end the unrighteous rule of men, stop all warfare, and reign over the earth Himself. Which He will do as prophesied.

It's the prophecy all the prophets look for, as well as the innocents of the nations. They will no longer be at the mercy of the wicked and cruel.

We don't claim that the bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ is past.

Then stop saying you are resurrected with His bodily resurrection.

Do you believe in soul sleep?

No.

Why couldn't the souls of the dead in Christ be reigning with Christ in heaven?

No Scripture says any angel or man ever reigns with God in heaven. Men will reign with Him only on earth. 1st during the Millennium, and then on the new earth.

And the souls at the altar of God in heaven, are asking Him to return and end all the wicked rule on earth. If they were reigning with Him in heaven, then they would tell Him to. Or tell the Father to tell the Son to come again already.

We don't claim that we are literally in heaven now.

Then stop saying you are in the throneroom of heaven reigning with Him forever. If it's not literally, then it's just the imagination of children on the play ground.

Just pre-warn all your teaching is figurative-only, which is the same as spirit-only and faith-only.

Dead. Empy. Vain.

Amil absolutely does NOT exhort "the modern church militant of making war with others and other nations, to establish the Lord's kingdom rule on earth".

Well, that's figuratively speaking, and not literally.

It's like the fairy sprites flashing hints of light in the dark, on a warm Celtic evening.

What are you talking about? No Amil has ever said these things.

What you are experiencing, is having your teachings taken literally, and strippiing them of all the speudo-science and twisting of Scripture required to teach it.

1. You say you are resurrected with Christ's bodily resurrection.

2. You say you reign with Him in heaven and on earth, and that reigning will never end.

3. You say Christians sinning are not condemned with the world.

1 and 2 and 3 = Resurrected immortal gods forever reigning in heaven and on earth, which cannot possibly ever end.

Now, if you want to say it's all spirit-only and figurative, then you are only figuratively resurrected and reigning with Christ for ever and ever.

Which is as real as Celtic myths of Leprechauns ruling in the woods of Tipperary.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And so you teach you are resurrected, since there is no such thing as spirit-only resurrection in the Bible.

The only resurrection in Scripture, is bodily.

Now, if you say you are born again and raised by the Spirit of Christ, from the death of sins and trespasses.

Then you would be correct. That is not a resurrection from the dead. You perversely calling it that, in order to inexplicably reject Christ's Millennium on earth, is saying the resurrection is past, because you are already resurrected from the dead.

I do not call being born again a resurrection. Let me tell you what I believe instead of you trying to tell me what I believe. That only makes you look like a fool when you constantly misrepresent what I believe. I do not claim that the resurrection of the dead referenced in passages like John 5:28-29, 1 Cor 15:22-23 and 1 Thess 4:14-17 has already occurred, but you're trying to make it as if I do. You just have the order of bodily resurrections wrong. The first bodily resurrection was Christ's resurrection itself (1 Cor 15:20-23, Acts 26:23), so the mass bodily resurrection that will occur at His second coming is NOT the first bodily resurrection. We spiritually have part in HIS resurrection when we are spiritually saved and that is what having part in the first resurrection is about.

You are not in any manner resurrected and reigning in heaven and on earth.

I didn't say I was resurrected. I am saying that I have spiritually had part in Christ's resurrection which is what passages like Ephesians 2:4-6 and Romans 6 talk about.

Send me one of the angels you rule over in heaven, and prove me wrong, or come yourself down from heaven long enough to tell me yourself.

I never claimed that I rule over angels in heaven. That is another lie from you. Why do you think it's okay to lie? Are you that desperate to keep your own doctrine afloat that you're willing to lie about what others believe in order to do so? Something is very wrong with you.

Oh, so you reigning 'figuratively'. Well, why didn't you just say so. If you made sure everyone knew your teaching is figuraative-only, then no one would bother arguing with it. I figuratively reign on Mt Rushmore.

Spirit-only 'figurative' reigning is the vain imagination, that is the equivalent of having dead faith alone.

It's nothing but words of the air, sounding all airy and sprite-like.

Your figurative reign has just as much substance to it as Don Quixote.

You're just treating the word of God as figurative, so that you can claim to be doing the figurative word.

Are you thinking that the word "figurative" is a synonym with the word "fictional"? It seems that way. Please tell me you are smarter than that. We reign in a spiritual sense with Christ as passages like the following talk about:

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

This speaks of the current reality of believers being "a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father". We are in Jesus Christ's spiritual kingdom that does not come with observation (Luke 17:20) and is not of this world (John 18:36). Is this concept too hard for you to understand?

True. Their bodies remain dead in the grave, waiting to be bodily resurrected in the likeness of Jesus' bodily resurrection.

And they're not reigning there, but pleading with the Lord to come again and end the unrighteous rule of men, stop all warfare, and reign over the earth Himself. Which He will do as prophesied.

How exactly do you know what the souls of the dead in Christ are doing in heaven? Have you been there? I'm sure you have not. Your beliefs are entirely based on speculation and assumptions rather than on scripture.

Then stop saying you are resurrected with His bodily resurrection.

I haven't said that even once. You must have a really bad reading comprehension problem.

No Scripture says any angel or man ever reigns with God in heaven. Men will reign with Him only on earth. 1st during the Millennium, and then on the new earth.

What scripture says that no angel or man can reign with God in heaven? Do you believe in soul sleep or something?

Then stop saying you are in the throneroom of heaven reigning with Him forever.

I have never said that. Yet another lie from you. Is lying not a sin in your mind?

If it's not literally, then it's just the imagination of children on the play ground.

Just pre-warn all your teaching is figurative-only, which is the same as spirit-only and faith-only.

Dead. Empy. Vain.

My teaching is not figurative only or spirit only. You are wasting time arguing with your imaginary straw man.

1. You say you are resurrected with Christ's bodily resurrection.

No, I have never said that. I say that we spiritually have part in His resurrection in the same sense that passages like the following talk about, but I do not say that I have been resurrected.

Ephesians 2:4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

This is speaking of the current reality of us spiritually being saved and reigning with Christ in a spiritual sense "in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus", but not literally in heaven.

2. You say you reign with Him in heaven and on earth, and that reigning will never end.

I don't say I reign with Him in heaven. I've never been to heaven. Another misrepresentation from you. Is it on purpose or are you just very ignorant? Which is it?

3. You say Christians sinning are not condemned with the world.

I have never said this. I don't even know what this means. What is this supposed to mean?

1 and 2 and 3 = Resurrected immortal gods forever reigning in heaven and on earth, which cannot possibly ever end.

I don't claim this. You make up lies like this. Why? I think you need to be evaluated. You're either a habitual liar or, for some reason, you have a tendency to just make things up in your head that you're convinced are true. Either way, you need help.

Now, if you want to say it's all spirit-only and figurative, then you are only figuratively resurrected and reigning with Christ for ever and ever.

Which is as real as Celtic myths of Leprechauns ruling in the woods of Tipperary.

I believe that He will return bodily in the future, so it seems to me that if you're arguing against any doctrine in particular, it would be full preterism rather than amillennialism. But, you seem to be too ignorant to even know the difference.

 

[Zao is life]

1. Amil says the first resurrection is Jesus' bodily resurrection. It then says Christians already have part in it. Since the first resurrection is confirmed as bodily, and not spiritual only, then in effect amil teaches we already have part in first bodily resurrection.

Yes the two words used in Revelation 20:4-6 are zao (alive in a human body wherever else the word appears in the New Testament) and anastasis (always referring to the bodily resurrection). There is no such concept as spiritual "resurrection" in the New Testament. Adam was created body and soul, and when the Spirit of God breathed His life into him, Adam became a living soul. The Spirit breathes where he desires and so it is with the one who is born (gennao) of the Spirit.

Eternal life is always connected with being alive (zao) in a human body in the New Testament, and this is why the concept of the bodily resurrection of the dead is inextricably part of the gospel. Below is a list of the New Testament scriptures using the Greek word záō (alive). None of them are in reference to someone who has died / fallen asleep / is not alive, i.e not living in his own human body. Not one:

|| Matthew 16:16; Matthew 22:32; Matthew 26:63; Matthew 27:63; Mark 5:23; Mark 12:27; Mark 16:11; Luke 2:36; Luke 4:4; Luke 10:28; Luke 15:13; Luke 20:38; Luke 24:5; Luke 24:23; John 4:10; John 4:11; John 4:50; John 4:51; John 4:53; John 5:25; John 6:51; John 6:57; John 6:58; John 6:69; John 7:38; John 11:25; John 11:26; John 14:19; Acts 1:3; Acts 7:38; Acts 9:41; Acts 10:42; Acts 14:15; Acts 17:28; Acts 20:12; Acts 22:22; Acts 25:19; Acts 25:24; Acts 26:5; Acts 28:4; Romans 1:17; Romans 6:2; Romans 6:10; Romans 6:11; Romans 6:13; Romans 7:1; Romans 7:2; Romans 7:3; Romans 7:9; Romans 8:12; Romans 8:13; Romans 9:26; Romans 10:5; Romans 12:1; Romans 14:7; Romans 14:8; Romans 14:9; Romans 14:11; 1 Corinthians 7:39; 1 Corinthians 9:14; 1 Corinthians 15:45; 2 Corinthians 1:8; 2 Corinthians 3:3; 2 Corinthians 4:11; 2 Corinthians 5:15; 2 Corinthians 6:9; 2 Corinthians 6:16; 2 Corinthians 13:4; Galatians 2:14; Galatians 2:19; Galatians 2:20; Galatians 3:11; Galatians 3:12; Galatians 5:25; Philippians 1:21; Philippians 1:22; Colossians 2:20; Colossians 3:7; 1 Thessalonians 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 3:8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; 1 Thessalonians 5:10; 1 Timothy 3:15; 1 Timothy 4:10; 1 Timothy 5:6; 1 Timothy 6:17; 2 Timothy 3:12; 2 Timothy 4:1; Titus 2:12; Hebrews 2:15; Hebrews 3:12; Hebrews 4:12; Hebrews 7:8; Hebrews 7:25; Hebrews 9:14; Hebrews 9:17; Hebrews 10:20; Hebrews 10:31; Hebrews 10:38; Hebrews 12:9; Hebrews 12:22; James 4:15; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 Peter 1:23; 1 Peter 2:4; 1 Peter 2:5; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 Peter 4:5; 1 Peter 4:6; 1 John 4:9; Revelation 1:18; Revelation 2:8; Revelation 3:1; Revelation 4:9; Revelation 4:10; Revelation 5:14; Revelation 7:2; Revelation 7:17; Revelation 10:6; Revelation 13:14; Revelation 15:7; Revelation 16:3; Revelation 19:20 (cast alive into the lake of fire); Revelation 20:4. ||

That's how we're born when we come into the world: alive in our own human body, (because that's how Adam was created). And that's what Revelation 20:4 is referring to.

And Revelation 20:5-6 says that this is the first anastasis (resurrection). The Greek noun used in the New Testament for bodily resurrection from death is ho anástasis: ("The Resurrection"). Without fail, each and every time anástasis is used in the New Testament, it's referring to (the) bodily resurrection from the dead, which is an integral part of the gospel:-

|| Matthew 22:23, 28 & 30-31; Mark 12:18 & 23; Luke 2:34; Luke 14:14; Luke 20:27, 33, 35-36; John 5:29; John 11:24-25; Acts 1:22; Acts 2:31; Acts 4:2; Acts 4:33; Acts 17:18, 32; Acts 23:6, 8; Acts 24:15, 21; Acts 26:23; Romans 1:4; Romans 6:5; 1 Corinthians 15:12-13, 21, 42; Philippians 3:10; II Timothy 2:18; Hebrews 6:2; Hebrews 11:35; I Peter 1:3; I Peter 3:21; Revelation 20:5-6. ||

Not only so, but all of the following verses use one or more of the other three Greek words referring to the bodily resurrection, and all are speaking about the bodily resurrection from the dead:-

égersis; anístēmi; egeírō:

|| Matthew 9:25; Matthew 10:8; Matthew 11:5; Matthew 14:2; Matthew 17:9; Matthew 16:21; Matthew 17:23; Matthew 20:19; Matthew 26:32; Matthew 27:52-53 & 63-64; Matthew 28:6-7; Mark 6:14 & 16; Mark 12:26; Mark 14:28; Mark 16:6 & 14; Luke 7:14; Luke 7:22; Luke 8:54; Luke 9:7 & 22; Luke 14:13-14; Luke 20:37; Luke 24:6; Luke 24:34; John 2:19-21; John 5:21; John 5:28-29; John 6:39, 40 & 44; John 11:23-35; John 12:1, 9 & 17; John 21:14; Acts 1:22; Acts 2:24, 31-32; Acts 3:15 & 26; Acts 4:1-2, 10 & 33; Acts 5:30; Acts 10:40; Acts 13:30 & 33-37; Acts 17:18 & 31-32; Acts 23:6-8; Acts 24:15 & 21; Acts 26:8; Romans 1:4; Romans 4:23-25; Romans 6:4-5; Romans 6:9; Romans 7:4; Romans 8:11; Romans 8:34; Romans 10:9; 1 Corinthians 6:14; 1 Corinthians 15:4, 12-23, 35-36, 42-45, 50-57; 2 Corinthians 1:9; 2 Corinthians 4:14; 2 Corinthians 5:15; Galatians 1:1; Ephesians 1:20; Ephesians 2:5-6; Ephesians 5:14; Philippians 3:10-11; Colossians 2:12-13; Colossians 3:1 (Compare with Romans 6:5); 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16; 2 Timothy 2:8 & 18; Hebrews 6:1-2; Hebrews 11:35; 1 Peter 1:3-5; 1 Peter 1:21; 1 Peter 3:18 & 21; Revelation 20:5-6. ||

1 Corinthians 15:17-18 says, "And if Christ is not raised, your faith is foolish; you are yet in your sins. Then also those that fell asleep in Christ were lost."

Again, speaking of those who fell asleep in Christ, Paul continues, "If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruit of those who slept. For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive." (1 Corinthians 15:19-22).

Then he says, "But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming." (1 Corinthians 15:19-23).

So eternal life (in eternity) is inextricably linked to being alive forever in a body that does not die. The concept of resurrection from death is always associated with the body in the Bible - with the bodily resurrection. The Bible never equates being born (gennáō) of the Spirit with anástasis ("The Resurrection"), because in the Bible the resurrection is always referring to (the) bodily resurrection from death, without exception.

Jesus said to those who are still alive (zao) in their own human bodies,

"Yet a little while and the world does not see Me any more. But you see Me. Because I live, you shall live also.
At that day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you." (John 14:19-20).

"Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it remains in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me." (John 15:4).

Jesus alone is immortal (1 Timothy 6:16). Those who die / fall asleep in Christ are clothed with Christ's immortality, who alone is immortal (1 Timothy 6:16).

This is why Paul also taught, "(God) hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:6).

It's quite obvious though that until our own bodily resurrection, Christians cannot be found in heaven bodily (the way Jesus is, and the way possibly Enoch and Elijah are).

I suppose these human priests in heaven that Amils talk about, who have died in Christ and who now have no limbs, are going about shaking incense burners?

IMO Amillennialism rips everything the Lord and His apostles taught us out of context and ignores so many biblical facts. They have forgotten that God's purpose never changes and God created Adam with a body and a soul. Those who are born sons and daughters of Adam are born with a body and a soul. Adam lost the eternal life God had breathed into him when he became a living soul and as a result began to die physically also. The last Adam bore Adam's (our) sin and died, descended into hades and rose again, and He is the resurrection and the Life.

Mankind has only experienced one death and one resurrection from death, which as the Son of man, the second man and the last Adam, the Son of God brought to us and bought for us. The resurrection takes place in the One who is the resurrection and the life, i.e Jesus.

But Revelation talks about a second death, which no one has yet experienced, we have not yet even experienced the resurrection which Paul teaches will occur when Christ returns. New Jerusalem has come down to earth from God out of heaven and will come down to earth from God out of heaven. There is no separation between the spiritual and the creation in God's revealed purpose, revealed in the Bible. Adam was created with a body and a soul and the Spirit of God breathed eternal life into him. To separate the spiritual from the physical the way Amillennialism does is Dualism.

"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands.
And they lived [záō] and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection" [anástasis].

Amillennialism has those John mentioned above reigning with Christ a thousand years from the close of that same thousand years, after they had been beheaded by the beast.