Jews Are Just 1/3 of Israelites?

[Davy]

Yes, Biblically, and historically, the Jews make only about 1/3 of the total Israelites of the 'seed' of Jacob.

Those of Christ's Church are not supposed to exalt Jews over believers on Jesus Christ. According to Apostle Paul, Christ's Church is about BOTH Israelites and Gentiles that believe, together as ONE BODY.


From the Jewish historian Josephus (100 A.D.):

"When he had said this, he gave order that the rulers should measure the wall, and part the work of it among the people, according to their villages and cities; as every ones ability should require. And when he had added this promise, that he himself, with his servants, would assist them, he dissolved the assembly. So the Jews prepared for the work. That is the name they are called by from the day that they came up from Babylon; which is taken from the tribe of Judah,. which came first to these places, and thence both they and the countrey gained that appellation."


Per God Splitting Old Israel Into Two Separate Kingdoms:
Starting at 1 Kings 11 forward to 2 Kings 17 you will find this Bible history.


1. "kingdom of Judah" = only the tribes of Judah, and Benjamin at first, and eventually the tribe of Levi.

These made up the southern kingdom at Jerusalem-Judea in the south. That is only THREE TRIBES of Israelites of the 'seed' of Jacob. These began to call themselves 'JEWS', that name taken from the sole tribe of Judah, the tribe of which was born the house of David and ordained as kings by God's Hand. They were also called in God's Word, "house of Judah", or "Jerusalem", or just "Judah" after the split.


2. "kingdom of Israel" = the tribes of Ephraim, Manasseh, Dan, Asher, Naphtali, Zebulun, Gad, Simeon, Issachar, Reuben. Total of TEN TRIBES.

These 10 tribes of Israel were the majority of the seed of Israel from Jacob. These made up the northern "kingdom of Israel" after the split of 1 Kings 11 & 12. They dwelt in the northern part of the holy land. Before the split, Solomon had made Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim governor over the ten northern tribes. They had a falling out, so Jeroboam fled to Egypt. After Solomon's son was made king at Jerusalem, the ten northern tribes rebelled against the house of David, and parted connections with Judah and Jerusalem, which was by God's Hand. God then made Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim king over the ten northern tribes, and that northern kingdom became known as the "kingdom of Israel", or as just "Israel", or "Ephraim", or "Samaria" (its capital city), or even as "Joseph" (representing the Birthright having gone to Ephraim and Manasseh, the two sons of Joseph).

If you do not pay attention to those above labels that define the two separate kingdoms after the split of 1 Kings 11 & 12, then you will confuse... to whom God's later prophecies were given about and to.

You will instead wrongly... think all later Old Testament Bible prophecy is to JEWS only, when it is not. The whole Books of Ezekiel and Hosea are primarily to the ten tribes of the "house of Israel", even while they were still captive to Assyria and the lands of the Medes.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, Biblically, and historically, the Jews make only about 1/3 of the total Israelites of the 'seed' of Jacob.

You will instead wrongly... think all later Old Testament Bible prophecy is to JEWS only, when it is not.

Not sure what your point is. Most people, like me included, use the term "Jews" to refer to all the Hebrews, all of Jacob's seed.

See sense 2 compared to sense 3, that you seem to be using. From Merriam-Webster:

Jew​

noun​

ˈjü

1
: a person belonging to a continuation through descent or conversion of the ancient Jewish people

2
: one whose religion is Judaism

3
a
: a member of the tribe of Judah
b
: ISRAELITE

4
: a member of a nation existing in Palestine from the sixth century b.c. to the first century a.d.

 

[Keraz]

Most people, like me included, use the term "Jews" to refer to all the Hebrews, all of Jacob's seed.

To do that is error, as the bulk of the descendants of the ancient Israelite peoples remain in exile. We can know who they are, spread around the world, by their faith in Jesus, who successfully came to save them. Matthew 15:24
Proved by how the true people of God today, are from every tribe, race, nation and language. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Revelation 7:9

 

[Wrangler]

To do that is error

No. It is not error but a sense of the word, which the definition was provided.

 

[Wick Stick]

No. It is not error but a sense of the word, which provided.

Sure, you're using the common usage instead of the Biblical one.

As long as you're not talking about the Bible, that works. But it you take that definition and try to use it to understand the Bible, then you will misunderstand the Bible.

 

[Wrangler]

Sure, you're using the common usage instead of the Biblical one.

Right! People I talk to speak American. They don’t speak Biblical languages and neither do I.

You cannot impose a sense of a word on people who are using that word in another sense AND think you are communicating.

I asked what point is being made and no one has addressed the significance of the senses of the word?!

 

[Wick Stick]

I asked what point is being made and no one has addressed the significance of the senses of the word?!

Well, if you're reading through Isaiah or Ezekiel, there are prophecies about each one... and they aren't the same.

So then if you take the prophecies about "Israel" there, and try to apply them to the modern Jews, it doesn't work. They aren't the people the prophets were talking about.

 

[Wrangler]

Sure, you're using the common usage instead of the Biblical one.

As long as you're not talking about the Bible, that works. But it you take that definition and try to use it to understand the Bible, then you will misunderstand the Bible.

So you say but have not explained how so.

 

[Wick Stick]

So you say but have not explained how so.

Uh... yeah I did. Reply #7, directly above this one?

 

[Wrangler]

Uh... yeah I did. Reply #7, directly above this one?

Appeal to Circular Reasoning. All you are doing is repeating your claims. You claims are correct because you made those claims. No.

Well, if you're reading through Isaiah or Ezekiel, there are prophecies about each one... and they aren't the same.

How are they different?

So then if you take the prophecies about "Israel" there, and try to apply them to the modern Jews, it doesn't work.

Why doesnt it work?

They aren't the people the prophets were talking about.

How are they different from the peoplet the prophets were talking about?

 

[Wick Stick]

Appeal to Circular Reasoning. All you are doing is repeating your claims. You claims are correct because you made those claims. No.

Uh, no. You might want to look up circular reasoning.

How are they different?

Why doesnt it work?

How are they different from the people the prophets were talking about?

If only you'd read the book, you would know.

 

[Wrangler]

Uh, no. You might want to look up circular reasoning.

If only you'd read the book, you would know.

Yes. You cannot support your claims one little bit. A covert anti-Semite.

 

[Davy]

Right! People I talk to speak American. They don’t speak Biblical languages and neither do I.

You cannot impose a sense of a word on people who are using that word in another sense AND think you are communicating.

I asked what point is being made and no one has addressed the significance of the senses of the word?!

I like that, "speak American". Funny! I think that was in Brad Pitt's latest movie, Fury about WWII tankers.

It's not simply about languages. That's a far out excuse.

It's about Old Testament BIBLE HISTORY.

I quoted the Jewish historian Josephus about it, didn't you read it?

______________________________________________________________________
"When he had said this, he gave order that the rulers should measure the wall, and part the work of it among the people, according to their villages and cities; as every ones ability should require. And when he had added this promise, that he himself, with his servants, would assist them, he dissolved the assembly. So the Jews prepared for the work. That is the name they are called by from the day that they came up from Babylon; which is taken from the tribe of Judah,. which came first to these places, and thence both they and the countrey gained that appellation."
__________________________________________________________________________

Ezra 1 & 2 reveals just who all returned from the Babylon captivity. NONE of the ten northern tribes were mentioned, simply because none of the ten northern tribes went... captive to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar.

Thus the title of JEW in reality applied ONLY to those of the "house of Judah" that dwelt in the southern part of the holy land at Jerusalem-Judea.

The ten northern tribes that dwelt in the northern part of the holy land were completely removed by the kings of Assyria, per 2 Kings 17, in stages. They were REPLACED by the Samaritans, foreigners brought from Babylon. And the Jews wouldn't have anything to do with the Samaritans, because they knew the Samaritans were a pagan foreigner people. (See John 4).

Thus it is YOU that has failed to make a valid point on this matter.

 

[Wrangler]

It's not simply about languages. That's a far out excuse.

OK. We’re done. We’re not even speaking the same language. Even though some of the words are the same they have different meanings.

Make a blessed day!

 

[Davy]

OK. We’re done. We’re not even speaking the same language. Even though some of the words are the same they have different meanings.

Make a blessed day!

The language I am speaking is simply Bible Scripture and history.

So don't try to use the idea of speaking a different language as a cop-out for an excuse to not check out the Biblical Scriptures I post, along with Bible history.

 

[Davy]

Well, if you're reading through Isaiah or Ezekiel, there are prophecies about each one... and they aren't the same.

So then if you take the prophecies about "Israel" there, and try to apply them to the modern Jews, it doesn't work. They aren't the people the prophets were talking about.

That reply to @Wrangler brethren hits the nail square on the head.

Those of us Bible students that have actually read and studied... the Old Testament Books are familiar with Bible history, and those different names and titles for the two houses of the children of Israel written of in God's Word. And we can tell when other brethren have NOT... studied those parts of The Bible.

And for those who have not read those parts of The Bible, like 1 Kings 11 thru 2 King 17, stop trying to make up excuses for not having done so, because it makes you look even more Biblically illiterate. Get down to disciplined Bible study and read all your Bible, that's the only way you will know when someone is trying to 'snow' you on a Bible topic.

 

[Wrangler]

The language I am speaking is simply Bible Scripture and history.

So don't try to use the idea of speaking a different language as a cop-out for an excuse to not check out the Biblical Scriptures I post, along with Bible history.

No cop out. I reject out of hand your anti-semitic notions. Jews are the only group in the world that is BOTH a religious AND political order. For nefarious reasons, you are pretending like only one aspect, the non-political aspect does not apply in using language.

 

[Wick Stick]

That reply to @Wrangler brethren hits the nail square on the head.

Those of us Bible students that have actually read and studied... the Old Testament Books are familiar with Bible history, and those different names and titles for the two houses of the children of Israel written of in God's Word. And we can tell when other brethren have NOT... studied those parts of The Bible.

And for those who have not read those parts of The Bible, like 1 Kings 11 thru 2 King 17, stop trying to make up excuses for not having done so, because it makes you look even more Biblically illiterate. Get down to disciplined Bible study and read all your Bible, that's the only way you will know when someone is trying to 'snow' you on a Bible topic.

Yes, thank you, exactly.

I kind of tapped out of this thread after being called an anti-Semite. Like, I'm not technically Jewish (my mommy was German) but I did grow up in a mixed-Jewish household, I work in an office that is populated mostly by Jewish people, and most people who meet me assume that I am, because I look and sound the part. It's kind of gross to be accused of prejudice against what I think of as my own people.

But the Jews aren't the same people as the Old Testament House of Israel, and there's nothing anti-Semitic about pointing that out, particularly when people are confusing the two. They're the successors of the OT House of Judah. This seems like a no-brainer to me but apparently I'm wrong on that, because the majority of Christendom can't seem to tell the two apart.

If you read all this... thanks for indulging me for a small rant.

 

[Wrangler]

I kind of tapped out of this thread after being called an anti-Semite. Like, I'm not technically Jewish

You don't think Jews can be against Israel?

But the Jews aren't the same people as the Old Testament House of Israel

So what? In what way are they different?

 

[Wick Stick]

You don't think Jews can be against Israel?

That's about what I expected from you.

So what? In what way are they different?

They're descended from different tribes. Historically, the two groups had separate kings, separate governments. Their state-sponsored religions weren't the same.

But more importantly, God deals with them separately in the Old Testament. So if you take the prophecies about the one, and apply them to the other... it doesn't work.

I've been told so many times that Israel returned from captivity. Problem: Israel didn't go into captivity... that was Judah. Israel ceased to exist over a hundred years before Judah was carried away into captivity, when the Assyrians attacked and destroyed them, in fulfillment of prophecy.

Similarly, I've been told that God is going to gather the Jews from the 4 corners of the earth and return them to their homeland. Again, backwards... it's Israel that gets resurrected and gathered.

If you can't tell the two apart, then you aren't going to understand much of the Bible.