1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured The Lord comes to reveal His Glory among His own

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by keras, Aug 17, 2017.

  1. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    2 Thessalonians 1:4-10 We hold you [Christians] up as a good example of steadfast faith, because you have kept faithful despite difficulties and troubles. This will show the justice of God's judgement, when you prove worthy to partake in the Kingdom, for which you are currently suffering.
    It is just that God should balance the account by sending affliction to those who afflict you and to give you relief when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire. Then, He will punish all those who refuse to acknowledge God or the Gospel of Jesus. They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction cut off from any hope of salvation, when on that great Day, He comes to reveal His glory among His own and to all believers. Therefore to you, since you believe the testimony of the Gospel.
    All born again Christians. This passage describes the Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath, a terrible fire judgement upon His enemies and how, at that time, He saves and delivers His people. He is not seen by all the world at this first event, only by believers in Him. Many other prophecies parallel this; Isaiah 10:17-22, Isaiah 29:19-21, Isaiah 30:26, Jeremiah 30:4-8, Ezekiel 34:12, Amos 9:8-12

    2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 Now, about the coming of our Lord, Jesus Christ, when He is to gather the elect to Himself, do not be alarmed by anyone who says He is here already. Let no one deceive you: that Day cannot come before the final rebellion against God, when wickedness will be revealed in human form, the man doomed to destruction. He is the adversary who aspires to be worshipped in God's place and he even enthrones himself in the temple, claiming to be God. Daniel 8:10
    Already the secret forces of wickedness are at work, but the restraining power of the Holy Spirit will ensure that he will be revealed only at the appointed time. Then, the Lord Jesus will destroy him by His Spirit and His radiant power.
    Now - that is: several years after the previous events of judgement and deliverance, Jesus will Return, in glory, visible to all. He destroys the armies attacking Jerusalem and chains up Satan, then commences His Millennial reign. Revelation 19:11-21, Revelation 20:1-6 At this time He gathers 'the elect' to Himself, Matthew 24:31, 1 Thess 4:15-17, they are the Gentiles who have kept pure and faithful to Him, during the Tribulation.

    2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 The coming of this wicked person is the work of Satan, it will be accompanied by all the powerful signs and miracles that falsehood can devise and every sort of evil that deceives those who do not open their minds to the truth. They are doomed to perish, because they refuse to listen to the Gospel of the truth, so God has put them under a compelling delusion; which makes them believe what is false. So all will be judged and condemned who have rejected the truth, but have made sinfulness their choice. Ref: REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.

    Here, in Paul's letter to the Thessalonians, he prophesies about two separate appearances of Jesus. First, His coming in 'blazing fire', when He will reveal Himself only to His righteous people. He destroys the nations and entities who 'conspire to attack Israel', in fulfilment of Psalm 83, Revelation 6:12-17 and many other prophecies. His righteous Christian people go to live in the holy Land. Then, at least 7 years after that devastating and shocking event, the Anti-Christ will come to power and 'enthrone himself in the Temple', this commences the Great Tribulation and 1260 days later, Jesus Returns to live once again on earth and reign as King over the world.
     
  2. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,315
    Likes Received:
    3,381
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    GINOLJC, what you have written parallel with Acts chapter 2 the coming or return of the Lord Jesus on Pentecost "IN SPIRIT".
    "He is not seen by all the world at this first event", scripture, John 14:16-18 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you". and Judas asked a VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION ABOUT THE WORLD NOT SEEING HIM. John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?". this is a very important question, the way our Lord manifest himself to believers is by way of the Spiritual gifts. scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". and that manifestation took place on Pentecost. as you said,
    and you quoted Isaiah 10:17 "And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day". scripture, Acts 2:1-4 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance". Hebrews 1:7 "And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire". Romans 15:16 "That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost".
    Conclusion to this is, when the Lord Jesus returned in Spirit on the day of Pentecost the world did not see him even as today, and now present because he dwells in us. this answers also your next quote below, his second coming which is two fold. first in Spirit on the day of Pentecost, second in bodily form which is yet to come, in this coming, EVERY EYE will see him.

    what you have presented is making me to take another look concering his seconding coming. I know it's two fold but what you have presented have filled in some of the gaps missing in his two fold return.

    as said, the Lord's return was in Spirit on the day of Pentecost, "NOT SEEN" by the world, and his second or next "appearance" which is scripture, Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation". and in that appearing "every eye" will see him.

    so thanks keras for the post, I have some studying to do now, again thanks.
     
  3. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    I realize that what I post about Christians going to live in the holy Land, is a new concept to most, however, the prophesies support it and the basic reason that this idea has not been considered has to be because God has not wanted it known.

    The Lords Day of Vengeance and The Great Day of the Sovereign Lord:
    2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 ... when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in blazing fire. Then he will mete out punishment to those who refuse to acknowledge God and who will not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, cut off from the presence of God. When, on that great Day He comes to reveal His glory amongst His own and His majesty to all believers.

    Do not confuse this passage with the Return of Jesus in His glory. He does NOT come in fire then, or punish all the ungodly. This time, at the Sixth Seal event, He reveals Himself only to those who believe in Him and keep His Laws. Isaiah 24:23, Zechariah 9:14-17

    1/ The Day of Vengeance and the wrath of God;

    Psalms 11:4-6 The Lord is in heaven,….. He will rain fiery coals onto the wicked….

    Isaiah 66:15-16 See, the Lord is coming in fire, His sword will test mankind.

    Micah 5:15 In anger and fury, I shall wreak vengeance on the nations who disobey Me.

    Habakkuk 3:12 Furiously; You trample down the nations.

    Malachi 4:1 The Day comes; burning like a furnace, evildoers will be as stubble.

    Hebrews 10:27...a terrifying judgement of fire that will consume God’s enemies.

    Isaiah 30:26 On the day that the Lord saves His people,[born again Christians] the sun will shine with seven times its usual strength..and the moon will be as bright as the sun.
    Revelation 14:17-20 ..the angel with authority over fire....the winepress of God’s wrath…

    So, we see that the first event is the Lord sending fire by the means of an earth directed explosion of the suns surface, literally causing all the graphic effects prophesied.


    2/ The Great Day of the Sovereign Lord; the Return of the Lord Jesus; Rev 16:14b

    Matthew 24:29-31 As soon as this time of distress has passed [the Tribulation] the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give light, the stars will fall and all the heavenly bodies will be shaken. Then ALL the peoples will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. With a trumpet blast He will send His angels to gather His chosen from the farthest corners of the world. These will be all the people who have kept faithful to the Lord during the Tribulation as all the Christians will be living in the Land soon after the Day of vengeance. Rev 12:6-17

    Revelation 19:11-21....Jesus Returns and the destroys Satan’s armies, by the Sword of His Word and Satan is bound until the end of the 1000 years. Zechariah 14:3-5

    There will be four judgement/punishments, the first to happen soon, the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, a worldwide judgement of fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis against the nations, that will particularly affect the Middle East. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Ezekiel 30:1-5 This will enable His people, every faithful Christian person, Jew or Gentile, to resettle the Land. Ezekiel 34:11-16
    Then, later comes the Gog/Magog attack and destruction. Ezekiel 38 & 39

    At the Return of Jesus, He destroys the armies of the Anti Christ. Revelation 19:17-21 Then, at the end of the Millennium, there is another attack by a huge army, then comes the Great White Throne judgement of all people alive and dead.

    Note: that in Rev 19:13 Jesus Returns in a garment dyed in blood. In Isaiah 63:3 He tramples the nations....and their blood spattered all his clothing. From this and the sequence in 2 Thessalonians, we can say that the Day of the Lord’s wrath- the Sixth Seal, Revelation 6:12-17 will be the next prophesied event of the end times.
     
  4. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,315
    Likes Received:
    3,381
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    GINOLJC, I'm going to respond to your OP first. in conjunction with your two main scriptures, 2 Thessalonians 1:4-10 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 this is my response. take note, this is only an initial reply, for I'm still looking at, connecting more scripture. you gave a reference to 2 Thessalonians 1:4-10, in Isaiah, 10:16 "Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire. 17 And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day; 18 And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standardbearer fainteth. 19 And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them”. (his Holy One for a flame?). this got my attention, and my mind went straight to Acts chapter 2. Acts 2:1-4 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance". this term "cloven tongues" is a Flame, as stated in Isaiah 10:17 above. in reading Gill’s commentary: And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire,.... An emblem of the various tongues and languages, in which they were to preach the Gospel; these appearances were like flames of fire parted, and these parted flames looked like tongues; so, a flame of fire is with, the Jews called, לשון אש, "a tongue of fire", Isa 5:24, (this is exactly what the prophet Jeremiah said, 5:14 "Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them". hence the Apostle James compares a tongue to fire, Jas 3:6 this was the baptism with fire, John the Baptist speaks of.

    and this flame of fire of fire, THE HOLY GHOST came on Pentecost, who is the Lord Jesus, which is his first return in SPIRIT. which concurs with your second verse you gave, and it support the coming of the Holy Spirit. Isaiah 29:19 "The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel”. scripture, Romans 14:17 "For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost". also, this confirms that the LORD is the HOLY GHOST, who is the the Lord JESUS. read Isaiah 29:19 and Romans 14:17 again. now, Romans 15:13 "Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost".
    confirmation again. now, 1 Thessalonians 1:6 "And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost". confirmation again. it is very clear that our Joy is in the Holy Ghost. John 15:11 "These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full". John 17:12 & 13 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves". in this prayer, he's going to the Father in order to send the Holy Spirit. John 14:16-18 "And I will pray the Father, (he did pray, we just hear him in chapter 17) and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you". by coming to us his JOY remain with us.

    this this scripture was given. Isaiah 30:26 "Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound”. the Superiority of the gospel (sun) over the moon (the Law). scripture, Revelation 12:1 "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars". Israel was walking in DARKNESS and the Law was a dim light, Psalms 119:105 "NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path". but as the sun (gospel) shines brighter that the moon (Law), it replace the the Law, Isaiah 30:26 "Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold". and the Lord Jesus is the LIGHT.

    and the last part of your post, "Here, in Paul's letter to the Thessalonians, he prophesies about two separate appearances of Jesus. First, His coming in 'blazing fire', when He will reveal Himself only to His righteous people. He destroys the nations and entities who 'conspire to attack Israel', in fulfilment of Psalm 83.

    The fulfilment of Psalm 83, as I see it, is in the book of Acts, in the persecution of the church, God people, the remnant. to back this up see Revelation 12:12-17. and in your mention of Revelation 6:12-17 coinciding with many other prophecies. This is the attempt of the cutting off God’s people as Psalm 83:4 & 5 states. For the rider of this white horse is that confederacy to destroy or cut off God's People, as also stated in (Revelation 12). Isaiah 8:11 "For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying, 12 Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid 13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. 14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken”. Now to me this is exactly what the apostle Paul say he, (God), would do to them who will stumble and fall, a false gospel, scripture 2 Thessalonians 2:11 & 12 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness”. This rider, as well as the three other riders are the same four judgment God gave to Israel. In Ezekiel chapter 14 God give 4 judgments, which are both physical and Spiritual. which correspond to the HEALING you mention in scripture.
    1. the sword, the red rider of Revelation, the power to kill, by war. (spiritual wickedness in high places), Ephesians 6:12
    2. the famine, the black rider, the power to kill, by lack of nourishment, (the word of God). (MAN of SIN), 2 Thessalonians 2:3
    3. the noisome beast, the white rider, (a false Messiah). The power to kill by persuading. Matthew 24:5.
    4. the pestilence, the pale rider, sickness and disease, the power to kill by ignorance, refusal to call upon the name of the Lord to be healed. The sick soul, (by his strips we’re healed). 1 Peter 2:24. To understand this, see below.

    The healing of the Nations is Salvation. Jeremiah 3:22 "Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the LORD our God. 23 Truly in vain is salvation hoped for from the hills, and from the multitude of mountains: truly in the LORD our God is the salvation of Israel”. Hosea 6:1 "Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up".

    Now this you said, which I'm still looking at in correctness, “Then, at least 7 years after that devastating and shocking event, the Anti-Christ will come to power and 'enthrone himself in the Temple', this commences the Great Tribulation and 1260 days later, Jesus Returns to live once again on earth and reign as King over the world”.
    Reversing this, the 1260 day are the 42 months or the 3 ½ years of our Lord’s ministry, and yes indeed he did return again on Pentecost to reign as King over the world first in our hearts, by his Spirit which happen on Pentecost. and Yet to come in bodily form for all the world to see, and sit as King on David throne. now is that's in the Heart?, I'm not sure yet. for who rules or sits in the temple of god your BODY?.

    I hope this initial respond help in some way, or at least may enlighten in some area of question.
     
  5. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    30,829
    Likes Received:
    10,648
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
    zing
     
  6. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,315
    Likes Received:
    3,381
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    GINOLJC, I'm very aware of these "DAYS" of the Lord. but I'm mostly concern of the Isaiah 30:26 you posted. I'm aware of the "DAY" when the Lord put an end to sin. but the return in the "DAY" of the LORD'S Glory. in my Opinion looking at scripture, I see a two-fold return. first in Spirit, (as that flame of fire on Pentecost). and the fiery end when he returns in bodily form. I'm very aware of the quote you made,
    in reference to Rev 19:13 "his garment", God is a Spirit, and what he put on was flesh. that garment is his body, or vesture, or cloke in order to take vengeance on sin. Isaiah 59:16 & 17 "And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. 17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke". so his being dipped in blood, is his crucifixion, and our righteousness. Colossians 2:13 "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it".
    Hebrews 10:19 & 20 "Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh". now in that body, Glorified, he sends forth his Spirit in us, hence the GREATER WORK. scripture, John 14:12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father". why? John 14:13 "And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it". this is the glorification of God in his first return, in Spirit, the Holy Spirit, let's continue, verse 15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you". this is the glorification of God as you states in your post topic, "The Lord comes to reveal His Glory among His own". his glory in his own is in the "HOLY SPIRIT" in his first return, Spirit.
     
  7. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    So, basically, you two don't want anything dramatic to happen during your tenure on earth.
    You do realize that you have no say in the matter?
    Prophesies given about the first Advent of Jesus were literally fulfilled. Why should those about His Return and what leads up to that glorious event; not happen literally too?
    We have some very specific prophesies about the end times, telling of things that can be literally fulfilled. We know the God wiped out civilization in Noah's time and now the world is in a similar state. 2 Peter 3:1-7 warns us and clearly tells us what God will use this time.
     
  8. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,315
    Likes Received:
    3,381
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    1st, whatever happens in our lifetime, or not, dose not matter, for we don't have any control over his return at all. #2. I was only clarifying his two-fold return. don't get me wrong, I believe in his bodily return which is yet to happen. but I'm very sure of his first return as the Holy Spirit and the significant of that return. your post zero in on both returns, (for me), and that's where, and what I was trying to clarify. clearly Prophesies given about the first Advent of our Lord Jesus were literally fulfilled. but likewise also his second Advent in Spirit. and as said, sometime those Prophesies of the second two-fold return could be blurred or merged into his final Advent, (see rev 1:7), which sometimes causes problems, or a lack of understanding the scriptures properly. I believe we need to be clear on what scriptures Prophesies about each.
     
  9. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    I believe that Jesus came back as the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost. Acts 2:1-4 He is working on earth for the last [almost] 2000 years, just as He prophesied in Luke 13:32, also in Hosea 6:2.
    Jesus appeared to Paul on the Damascus road and has been revealed to many who have called to Him is their extreme distress. A lot of Muslims have been directly converted like this.
    But you seem to deny the over 100 Bible prophesies that vividly detail the terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath. An event that does not fit with the three prophesies of Jesus' Return: Zechariah 14:3-5, Matthew 24:30-31, Revelation 19:1-21.
    You cannot say prophesies like Amos 5:18-20, Zephaniah 1:14-18 and 2 Peter 3:1-10, +, relate to the glorious Return.
    The Lord is not seen on the Day of wrath; Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:11, Hab 3:4, and secular people will be able to say it was just a natural event and they will form a One World Govt to regain control and order, but we Christians will go to live in all of the holy Land. WE will fulfil God's desire to have a people there who will be His witnesses and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 49:8 Great will be the Day.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
  10. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    Over Jerusalem the Glory of the Lord will appear:
    Isaiah 60:1-7 Arise! Shine, Jerusalem, for your light has come – over you the glory of the Lord has dawned. Though darkness covers the earth, on you the Lord shines. Over you His glory will appear. Nations and kings will come to your light. Look – your sons and daughters are coming from afar, all assembling in the Land. You will rejoice at the sight. The wealth of nations will be yours. Droves of camels laden with treasure will come and flocks of sheep will cover the Land, acceptable offerings for My altar and to enhance the splendour of My Temple.

    Isaiah 60:8-11 Who are these that sail along like clouds? They are vessels assembling from the coasts and islands bringing your children from far away, their treasures with them, for the honour of the Holy One of Israel. In My wrath, I struck you down, now in My favour I show you pity. Foreigners and kings will work for you.

    Isaiah 60:12-18 For the nation that refuses to serve you will perish, there will be widespread devastation among such nations. The glory of Lebanon shall come to you, to adorn My holy sanctuary. All who reviled you shall pay you homage, calling Jerusalem “The City of the Lord”. I shall give My Land and people everlasting renown. You will receive the best gifts from kings and the nations. Then you will acknowledge that your Redeemer is the Mighty One of Israel. For copper you shall have gold, for iron, silver. You will live in peace and righteousness will rule over you. No more will havoc and ruin be within your borders. Your walls will be deliverance and your gates, praise.

    Isaiah 60:19-22 The sun and moon will no longer be your light, for the Lord will be your everlasting light. Your days of mourning will be ended. The Lords people, all of them righteous, will possess the Land forever. They are My own planting, the work of My hands for My adornment. The few will become a great nation.
    At the appointed time, I, the Lord, will bring this swiftly to pass.
    Ref. REB. Some verses abridged.

    This prophecy of Isaiah, speaks of the time, soon after the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, when every faithful Christian will gather into all of the holy Land. Isaiah 35:1-10

    darkness covers the earth’, It may be months before the smoke and ash from the ‘widespread devastation’ of the direct hit by a massive CME sunstrike clears. Zephaniah 2:4-5, Jeremiah 4:23-28, Joel 1:15-20

    The Lord’s people, all of them righteous, assembling from the coasts and islands’, Ezekiel 20:34. Every born again Christian, all who stood firm in their faith, Luke 21:34-36, will travel on every type of transport to the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Psalms 107

    ‘Over you, His Glory will appear’, His Glory, not his presence. ‘Then you will acknowledge your Redeemer’. The Return of Jesus to reign for the Millennium is to come later.

    The wealth of nations will be yours’, This was done before; at the first Exodus, the Israelites took treasure from the Egyptians. Exodus 11:2

    ‘The splendour of My Temple’, One of the first projects of the new inhabitants of Beulah, will be to build the third Temple. The temple mount will have been cleared and cleansed by the fires and earthquakes of this CME.

    Isaiah 60:19, refers to the time after the Millennium. Revelation 21:23-24
     
  11. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,315
    Likes Received:
    3,381
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    GINOLJC, second, thanks for the post. I'll answer it point by point.

    #1. I believe that Jesus came back as the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost. Acts 2:1-4 He is working on earth for the last [almost] 2000 years, just as He prophesied in Luke 13:32, also in Hosea 6:2.
    Good, we both agree on his return as the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, and yes, he have been working on the EARTH, in us, for a little over 2,000 years, or just a couple of days, (that’s in God time, see 2 Peter 3:8). So, the Lord have been gone, bodily, only for a couple of days….. (smile). may I add this O.T. prophesy also. Psalms 110:1-3 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. 3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth”. there is Good commentary reading (Gill’s) on verse 3 is worthy of your read. But the verse I’m also interested in, which zero in on your topic, is verse 1. The “LORD”, God without flesh and bone, a Spirit, see John 4:24a, said unto his diversified self in flesh and bone, the “Lord”, sit at my right hand, (right hand means POWER), until I make thine enemies thy footstool. So clearly, it’s the LORD, all caps, (the Spirit, title the Father), who is on EARTH making the (“Lord”, title the Son), same Spirit, diversified in flesh in HEAVEN, his enemies, his footstool here on earth. How clear can one be? Yes, it’s GOD almighty, the Holy Spirit, the “EVERLASTING FATHER”, see Isaiah 9:6. that Child that was born, that Son that was given making his enemies (unbelievers) his footstool. Wonderful. No math, no guns, or knives involved.

    #2. Jesus appeared to Paul on the Damascus road and has been revealed to many who have called to Him is their extreme distress. A lot of Muslims have been directly converted like this. But you seem to deny the over 100 Bible prophesies that vividly detail the terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath. An event that does not fit with the three prophesies of Jesus' Return: Zechariah 14:3-5, Matthew 24:30-31, Revelation 19:1-21.
    Well I do agree with the prophesies that detail that “DAY” of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, but it might not be the only ones you have posted. As said before, there are O.T as well as N.T. prophesies that speak of his Pentecost return. Example, one you know very well, Joel 2:28 & 29 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit”. take note on this great and terrible “DAY” of the LORD. Joel 2:31 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come”. Now was this at the END? Listen, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you”. Now was vengeance taken before he “SAVE” us? See how one can take a “DAY” of the Lord out of context. We must apply the correct “DAY” of the Lord to the correct event.

    #3. You cannot say prophesies like Amos 5:18-20, Zephaniah 1:14-18 and 2 Peter 3:1-10, +, relate to the glorious Return.
    Did I say so? I suggest you read your commentaries on these O.T. verse. for 2 Peter 3:1-10 do not relate to them at all.

    #4. The Lord is not seen on the Day of wrath; Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:11, Hab 3:4, and secular people will be able to say it was just a natural event and they will form a One World Govt to regain control and order, but we Christians will go to live in all of the holy Land. WE will fulfil God's desire to have a people there who will be His witnesses and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 49:8 Great will be the Day.

    I hate to tell you this, but all those scriptures are speaking of God, the Lord Jesus, in flesh, in his TEMPLE, which is HOLY.
    #1. Psalms 11:4 "The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men”. His HOLY TEMPLE is his body.

    #2. Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me”.
    I AM HE?, listen, let’s see who said, “I AM HE”. John 8:28 "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things”. Did you see that in Isaiah 43:10, listen, “understand that I am he”, KNOW. Understand means “know”, now John 8:28 “then shall ye know that I am he”. The LORD is the Lord in flesh, his Holy Temple.

    #3. Isaiah 49:8 "Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages”.
    This is “SALVATION” a day of salvation, not wrath. how do we know this, listen, “Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee. Maybe you might need to get some different scripture. See the O.T. prophets preached about the coming SALVATION. The N.T. clearly state what happen if one doesn’t accept this salvation. Yes, they preached also of the final destruction, but the main message was repentance unto salvation. And that salvation message began to spread on the day of Pentecost to the world. Now that’s glorious.

    But don’t get me wrong, I understand the fate concerning those who do not accept this salvation, all the prophets are clear on this. Including 2 Peter 3:1-10. but I’m not going to argue about the wrath or destruction, (which we all know is coming), but having souls save is more glorious to me that one soul being destroyed in wrath.

    Be blessed.
     
  12. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    The Presence of the Lord
    In ancient times, when the Israelites first settled into the holy Land, the Lord promised to ‘dwell among them’.
    Exodus 29:45-46 I shall dwell in the midst of My people, I shall become their God and by My dwelling among them they will know that I am the Lord their God who brought them out of Egypt.
    This ‘dwelling’, was not as a visible entity but just His ‘Presence’, only seen by the people as a cloud or a pillar of fire that went before them during the Exodus and after the Temple was built, in the Holy of Holies as the Shekinah Glory. 1 Kings 8:10-11, 1 Corinthians 10:4

    Unfortunately those chosen people failed to keep their side of the Covenant and the Lord separated them into two Houses, 2 Kings 12:24. He sent the Assyrians to remove the Northern ten tribes of Israel, Isaiah 9:8. Their punishment was to be 390 years, Ezekiel 4:4. This was multiplied by seven, for their continued sins, Leviticus 26:18, giving a total decreed exile of 2730 years.
    Then 130 years after the Assyrian conquest, Babylon took away the House of Judah, Isaiah 3:8-9 and their punishment was to be 40 years, Ezekiel 4:6 but, multiplied by seven times seven, Leviticus 26:24-28, for a total decreed exile of 1960 years.

    So as Paul said in 1 Corinthians 10:11, what happened before will happen again and Righteous Israelites, who includes all those who love the Lord and keep His commandments: Christians from every race, nation and language. Isaiah 56:1-8, Ephesians 2:1-22, Galatians 3:26-29, will soon gather and settle in all of the holy Land, Ezekiel 20:34-38, from the Nile to the Euphrates, thus fulfilling God’s promises to the Patriarchs. Psalms 105:7-11, Isaiah 26:1-2
    When they build the new Temple, the Ark of the Covenant will be recovered from its hiding place and the Shekinah glory will come back into the Holy of Holies so in the same manner as before, the Lord ‘will dwell among His people’. Ezekiel 43:4, Isaiah 12:6

    Israel’s new leaders, Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11, will see Him, Isaiah 24:23 and ‘His glory will be revealed to all believers’. 2 Thess. 1:10, Isaiah 60:1, Isaiah 30:20, Hebrews 8:11, Ezekiel 39:27-29They will exemplify His holiness for all to see’.

    When Jesus said: ‘I will be with you always, to the close of the age’, Matthew 28:20 He meant it spiritually and in the next age of the Millennium, He will once again be on earth physically.
    After the many more prophesied events that will take place until the end of this age, the Lord Jesus will Return for His Millennial reign.
    Blessed be He who comes in the Name of the Lord’, will be the shout of the Christian Israelites in Jerusalem, as all the world sees Jesus Return on the clouds.
     
  13. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,963
    Likes Received:
    3,271
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Do not be deceived...you had it correct at the beginning. “The kingdom of God does not come with observation;"

    And the second coming is not twice, but once to all: to the dead and to the living. Do not make the mistake of counting them separate as some do.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
  14. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    30,829
    Likes Received:
    10,648
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
     
  15. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    ScottA and bbyd009, you both need to study the scriptures more. Your quote about the Kingdom in Luke 17:20 is followed by Jesus saying He will come again, the next time like a lightning flash....and people will be taken and one left, then where the bodies are, the vultures will gather.
    Care to explain how that fits your idea of the Kingdom?
     
  16. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,963
    Likes Received:
    3,271
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    "The kingdom of God is within you" - He comes again "within", "in spirit", "not with observance.' By this, we have the testimony that "Christ has come in the flesh"...not that He becomes flesh again or that the flesh has been glorified - no, but that He has built His church not of flesh, nor of stone, but of "spiritual stones."

    The "vultures" are those who take up the wings of the flesh, who seek the flesh and its glory, and feed off it, rather than taking up the spirit.

    "Then the end [of the flesh, and of the old heaven and earth and Jerusalem] shall come."
     
  17. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    So what Jesus said is all spiritual?
    Sort of leaves us like dumb critters, waiting for judgement and clueless about what God actually does plan for His Creation.

    No, I don't buy it, we can know and be prepared for the unfolding of all the end times events. We should NOT be in the dark.
     
  18. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,315
    Likes Received:
    3,381
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    GINOLJC, first thanks for the response. second, I agree that the Kingdom came on Pentecost, the Holy Spirit, who is Christ. now the last part you stated that the second coming is only once. so, are you saying that Revelation 1:7 is already fulfilled?, "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen". I be looking for your answer.



    I clearly understand that the Lord Jesus have come in the flesh with blood. but do he not have flesh and bone NOW, but without blood. may I point you to the scripture for this, Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have". here the Lord Jesus declares that he is spirit, but a spirit with flesh and bone, and NO BLOOD. this is his resurrected body which he took back to heaven, (the spiritual realms) which he is to return in according to Revelation 1:7 above which i stated.
    so my question to you "do the Lord Jesus have a flesh and bone body without blood? yes or no.

    thanks in advance.
     
  19. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    30,829
    Likes Received:
    10,648
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
    we are already God's children, but He has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears.
     
  20. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    30,829
    Likes Received:
    10,648
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
    imo you out yourself here as a worrier about the world, and you cannot help but make pointless and incorrect divinations about the future with this pov. You don't think today has enough issues of its own, keras?
     
    Job likes this.
Loading...