Says Kingdom Hall? You couldn't possibly know that! Did you ever knowingly disobey God? Do you sin? Of course you do! Does that mean you are doomed? Or are you better than Adam and Eve?
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The phrase 'Spiritually Dead' is not in the Bible. Where do you get this from?
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BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Yes a person can know that, kcnalp. You just refuse to listen to scriptures. You know there is no forgiveness for someone who knowingly and willingly sin. Adam and Eve did knowingly and willingly sin. Also we know that the scriptures show nowhere that Adam and Eve showed no repentance after they sin. You just don't see how truly awful of a sin Adam and Eve sinned against the True God. You obviously don't see what a genuine lack of love Adam and Eve had for the True God and his rulership. How they had a genuine lack of love for their future children.
You're going to Hell?
And so have you and me.
You know they didn't repent? You're not God Barney. Did Kingdom Hall tell you you're a god?
So you're perfect? You should know, self righteousness is a BIG sin!
From Wikipedia:
"The phrase spiritual death is not found in Protestant scriptures, and definitions of the concept thus vary among Protestant Christians."
Spiritual death in Christianity - Wikipedia
I hereby formally submit to the entire Human Race that there is no such thing as 'Spiritual Death'.
Furthermore, any teachings on said phrase should be regarded as Heresy and rejected.
You have just been put on notice.
Prove me wrong.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
I'd have to disagree. We are born with a spirit, soul and body, but our spirit is dead, meaning separated from God, disabled, a defect if you will. We have a spiritual compartment that is empty, then after receiving Christ, He washes our spirit, quickens it to life, lifts the veil so we can see and now the Holy Spirit takes up residence in our compartment which remains separate from our flesh. It is set apart, sanctified, purified and remains that way.
What you are saying is that we only have a spiritual compartment that God fills, and that we are in Christ.
>>>What exactly is in Christ then? >>>Our spirit.<<<
What is our spiritual state after conversion? Alive. What is it exactly. It is our purified self, everything good about us that moves on minus the bad.
Remember, "The word of God is sharper than a two-edged sword ... able to divide soul and spirit."
The soul and spirit are not the same but are highly integrated - only the Word can separate them. So if any of us died instantly, our spirit goes to be with the LORD and we are seen as pure, white as snow.
The Holy Spirit communes with our spirit. And gradually our spirit cooperates with the Holy Spirit, which in turn effectual enables the WORD to transform our soul (mind, will, emotions, personality, behavior). So we are not only changed instantly spiritually, but also gradually our flesh is transformed. But this lifelong process is never fully completed entirely, sin still dwells in our flesh; but we are no longer slaves to It, we keep it in check by mortifying our old selves.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
To Base12,
Please read above post #66.
I would also like to comment on the womb.
The womb is a safehouse, a wonderful place where God knits us together and performs his miraculous creation and development from sperm and egg to nine months later, a baby that has features from both parents, but made in the image of God. The growth process in no less than miraculous when you think of it. Cells divide, duplicate themselves, create new different cells, tissues, organs and systems all simultaneously, all following a design in the genetic code. The fetus is fed and nourished there.
Do these cells have little brains that decipher the code and proceed to build molecules made out of amino acids and proteins, with thousands of synchronized factories within each one all working together as if they were trained, educated, with knowledge far beyond any knowledge or ability that mankind has ever achieved? NO! GOD IS DOING IT.
So this whole idea of the wo.b being Hell is a dishonor to the Creator. The womb is His workshop if you will.
Please read above post #66.
I would also like to comment on the womb.
The womb is a safehouse, a wonderful place where God knits us together and performs his miraculous creation and development from sperm and egg to nine months later, a baby that has features from both parents, but made in the image of God. The growth process in no less than miraculous when you think of it. Cells divide, duplicate themselves, create new different cells, tissues, organs and systems all simultaneously, all following a design in the genetic code. The fetus is fed and nourished there.
Do these cells have little brains that decipher the code and proceed to build molecules made out of amino acids and proteins, with thousands of synchronized factories within each one all working together as if they were trained, educated, with knowledge far beyond any knowledge or ability that mankind has ever achieved? NO! GOD IS DOING IT.
So this whole idea of the wo.b being Hell is a dishonor to the Creator. The womb is His workshop if you will.
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I am still reading through the posts. Awesome stuff everyone, but please keep something in mind...
There are only so many Deaths to go around, and from what I can see, your maths are off a tad bit.
Here is a summary of your equations using Dr. Evil as an example:
Uh oh...
- Dr. Evil is 'Spiritually Dead' and will remain that way. That is Death #1.
- Dr. Evil dies from an Adrenochrome overdose. That is Death #2.
- Dr. Evil gets thrown into the Lake of Fire. That is Death #3.
Revelation 21:8
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
There are only TWO deaths in Scripture. Where are you getting the third?
1st death is being spiritually separated from God due to sin.
Second death is separation from God for eternity after judgment.
That’s the only deaths that are counted in scripture, which explains why Jesus said:
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Christians will die physically, but notice Jesus ignores their physical death to come, and says believers will NEVER die.
That’s because our body isn’t US, it’s a very temporary home we dwell in, that we leave when it stops functioning.
The deaths that God counts is where WE, not our tent that we are in for a micro second of eternity, are affected.
The redeemed will never be separated from God, thus will never die.
Problem solved!
Shalom.
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Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Revelation 21:8
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
The second death spoken of here is the final judgment, when Hades ( all the unbeliever occupants who died the first death and have been awaiting their final judgment) which is to be thrown into the Lake of Fire and destroyed. This happens after the Millennial Kingdom.
Those who have been born again do not have to suffer this death, only non-believers. The Lake of Fire is more like an event when wall former things pass away - and are literally burned up. God creates a new heaven and new earth.
This coincides with the 2nd death:
2 Peter 3:10
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
The second death spoken of here is the final judgment, when Hades ( all the unbeliever occupants who died the first death and have been awaiting their final judgment) which is to be thrown into the Lake of Fire and destroyed. This happens after the Millennial Kingdom.
Those who have been born again do not have to suffer this death, only non-believers. The Lake of Fire is more like an event when wall former things pass away - and are literally burned up. God creates a new heaven and new earth.
This coincides with the 2nd death:
2 Peter 3:10
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well neither you nor I are God so we cannot know if God forgave them or not. I know god is very merciful as well as just and is very forgiving. Other than dying in unbelief, there is no sin too big that God cannot and will not forgive.
From Wikipedia:
"The phrase spiritual death is not found in Protestant scriptures, and definitions of the concept thus vary among Protestant Christians."
Spiritual death in Christianity - Wikipedia
I hereby formally submit to the entire Human Race that there is no such thing as 'Spiritual Death'.
Furthermore, any teachings on said phrase should be regarded as Heresy and rejected.
You have just been put on notice.
Prove me wrong.
Its apointed for all men to die once . Twice dead is dead never to rise to new born again spirit life.
One resurection two deaths. The death by disobeying the commandment or letter of the law and the second death the death of death itsself the letter of the law . Neitiher wil rise in the new order
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, is a unforgivable sin, the scriptures show that.Mt 12:31; Mr 3:28, 29; Lu 12:10
Also, Adam and Eve were not of sinful flesh when God created them, what I mean is Adam and Eve were without spot or blemish when they were created, until they sinned. So Adam and Eve couldn't say that there was some defect such as being of sinful flesh or sinful nature that caused him and his wife to sin. Adam and Eve were not created with sinful flesh that would influenced them to sin. We however are born in sin and because we're born in sin that is our nature we have a sinful nature or our flesh is sinful. When we know the truth then reject it as Judas Iscariot did, there is no forgiveness. Jesus himself called Judas the son of destruction. John 17:12 Regarding what Adam and Eve did when they sinned in the Garden of Eden, they showed no repentance and there is no evidence in the scriptures that they did show repentance. Genesis 3:15-19 Both Adam and Eve had no excuse for what they did they knew the truth but then they rejected it by betraying their creator and believing another way was better than Gods way.
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How long have you been judging others so harshly Barney?
Matthew 7:1-2 (NKJV)
1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
I'm not judging no one, just stating the truth about what I believe the scriptures are saying to us. If others don't want to believe that, that's their choice. I certainly don't agree with a lot things you say are scriptural.
Of course not Barney. Kingdom Hall won't let you. You certainly did do a LOT of judging of Adam and Eve without any proof whatsoever!
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
You keep talking about kingdom hall like you do because you don't like any person or religious organization exercising their right to disagree with you. When they do disagree you judge the person or the religious organization that disagrees with you. It's impossible for you to simply agree to disagree.
Where's your proof? Did Kingdom Hall teach you what happens to "all liars"?
Revelation 21:8 (NKJV)
8 All liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
More false accusations Barney? Kingdom Hall won't be able to help you on Judgment Day!
Revelation 21:8 (NKJV)
8 All liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
The Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was a national and not an individual sin. And it could only happen when Jesus walked on the earth. Judgment for that sin was the diaspora that began in 70 AD- 135 AD.
There is also no evidence that they did not repent afterwards.
God covered them with skins to hide their nakedness. And god continued to use them to build mankind. We cannot say if God forgave them or not! The Bible doesn't and for us to draw a declared concusion is hubris and haughtiness.
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