The Pre-Trib Rapture

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,171
930
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
You promote "Soul Sleep" a teaching contrary to scripture

When a wicked unsaved person dies they are immediately in hell fire torment, just as the rich man and Lazarus explains, the righteous are with the Lord in comfort Abraham's bosom
Sheer fantasy! How can any human go to heaven or hell; before Judgment?

The Bible prophesies are plain; only after the Millennium, does God sit and Judge all mankind. Revelation 20:11-15
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,568
12,984
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Scripture says that when a person dies their soul goes back to God, who made it and because with God there is no time; then at the Great White Throne Judgement, after the Millennium, that soul; along with every soul that ever lived, is made conscious again at the time of Judgement. Revelation 20:12, There is no knowledge of any time passing between death and Judgement, just as Hebrews 9:27 says; It is the human lot to die once, then comes the Judgement.

3/ The dead know nothing until the Appointed time for the Great White Throne Judgement, when there will be new heavens and a new earth. Revelation 21:1-4



So your answer is;
Body’s die, go to the grave, know nothing.
AGREE, with a condition...Physical Bodily Death, the Body goes to the grave, Knows nothing.

* However I ALSO AGREE with Jesus.
Human men, can willingly choose to BE BODILY Crucified with Jesus’ Body.
~ The Body Spiritually Accounted freely Given unto Death, as an ACT, in support of a mans WORD of TESTIFYING of BELIEF, in the Lord God Almighty
~ The Mans WORD testimony, The Man GIVING his Body unto death...
IS Gods Satisfactory Requirement Fulfilled, FOR The Lord God Himself, to GIVE that man, Gods PROMISE of Salvation and Quickening THEN.
~ It’s called a mans Heartful True Word Confession.
~ It’s called a mans Act of a Living Sacrifice.
~ It’s called Gods requirement (word and body death) FOR Justification.
~ It’s called Gods ASSURANCE.

Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. <— >HOPE,
(continue learning, the caveat of IF, one endures, continues Believing to the day of his bodily death.)
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Not confusing. That ^ solely rests on a mans BELIEF...A man continuing ‘his” belief.

Not a newsflash; Men continuing in Belief, solely rests on a mans own power to be or not be persuaded by outside influences.

AND...

“Scripture says that when a person dies their soul goes back to God” ...

Incomplete Truth.
~ All living souls, depart out of all PHYSICALLY Dead bodies.
~ Departed Saved Living souls, go to “Paradise”.
~ Paradise is WHERE the “TREE OF LIFE” is Located.
~ The “TREE OF LIFE” sustains/keeps the Living Soul Alive “WITH” God.
~ The “TREE OF LIFE”...was first planted ON Earth, in the Garden of Eden, then was moved to IN the Earth/ Hell on a particular comforting SIDE of a great dividing Gulf IN Hell, then was moved TO HEAVEN, Shall AGAIN be moved to ON Earth, Continuing to maintain the Life of all Saved Souls, (after the Heavens, the Earth are Renewed and ALL without God Separated from ALL with God.)

* Living Men who have BY their True Heartful Confessed Word, and BY their Giving their Bodily Life unto Death Crucified with Jesus....
Have ALREADY (according TO GODS ORDER and WAY), secured assurance OF their Relationship WITH the Lord God FOREVER.
* The Security of THIS RELATIONSHIP, is EXPRESSLY MADE Accomplished BY Gods Works and KEPT Accomplished BY THE POWER OF GOD...not the man HOPING by his own power he can continue enduring in belief to the day he physically dies.


“after the Millennium, that soul; along with every soul that ever lived, is made conscious again”

No. Every Living soul departed out of physically dead bodies, from the beginning, to this day;
ARE STILL CONSCIOUS, whether they are SAVED and IN Paradise, with God or whether they are UNSAVED and IN the torments side of Hell, without God.

Yes.
For Judgement Day, Every Living soul, SHALL return to its own “dead” body.
Via the LIFE in the soul, Via the soul returning to it’s own body, the body (void of its own life/blood), shall Via the Living soul returning to the Body....SHALL Cause individuals Body’s to Rise standing.
~ Souls reentering Dead BODY’s...SHALL DO one of two things.

A Saved soul reentering their Dead Body, SHALL cause their BODY to be Raised Standing “Glorified”.
An UnSaved soul reentering their Dead Body, SHALL “NOT CAUSE” a change in their body. Their BODY SHALL be “raised standing” in its Same Corrupted state it was, WHEN it physically died.

The LIFE in ALL Living souls, IS Gods Breath.
The LIFE of ALL Living souls, IN ALL body’s (glorified or corrupt)
SHALL stand before the Judge, Testify Belief, Bow down In Worship, before the Judge.

Thereafter, JUDGEMENT.
Gods LIFE in a Saved soul, shall remain WITH a mans body raised in Glory.
Gods LIFE in an Unsaved soul...Gods LIFE shall return to God...the corrupt soul and corrupt body SHALL be destroyed, forgotten.

ALL shall stand in Judgement, no one has said otherwise.

Our disagreement is:
An individual mans election of Assurance (my view) or Hope.(your view)
Our disagreement is:
The Assured ARE Justified to NOT be Subject to Wrath or Gods Tribulation (my view) or Hope God protects a man THROUGH Gods Tribulation. (your view).
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,568
12,984
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Sheer fantasy! How can any human go to heaven or hell; before Judgment?

The Bible prophesies are plain; only after the Millennium, does God sit and Judge all mankind. Revelation 20:11-15

Humans, ARE the physical body’s of a man, it’s life is it’s BLOOD, It SHALL die.

Souls belong to God. A souls Life IS Gods Breath, it’s LIFE is not subject to DEATH!

Men are judged all day long. Do this, Do that, evidence is collected.
Do this, evidence is JUDGED to be entered in as GOOD.
Do that, evidence is JUDGED to be entered in as BAD.

If an individual comprehends the difference between GOOD and BAD...
AND comprehends their choices result in the Consequence for GOOD or BAD....
An individual SHOULD reasonably be able to deduce, WHAT evidence God is collecting, and WHAT evidence THE Judge, SHALL USE, to Judge pronounce a FINAL JUDGEMENT of that man....AND the Sentence, AKA, Consequence OF the Final Judgement for that man.

Body’s of men, souls having resided IN men, spirits of men...ARE subject to FINAL JUDGEMENT...

In the interim, as BODY’S physically DIE....rot in the grave, knowing nothing....
Departed living souls are escorted to God or sent away from God...
Departed quickened spirits are escorted to God or remain natural and die with the body, are buried, rot.

Your presumption that no judgement, no determination, no justification, no keeping, no separation occurs “UNTIL” judgement day...is not supported by Scripture.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,568
12,984
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Sheer fantasy! How can any human go to heaven or hell; before Judgment?

The Bible prophesies are plain; only after the Millennium, does God sit and Judge all mankind. Revelation 20:11-15

Humans don’t go to Hell.
A Human is the physical aspect of a man, His Body. His Life is BLOOD.
A Person is a physically ALIVE Body.
Dead body’s go to the grave.
Saved soul’s go to Heaven.
Unsaved soul’s go to Hell.

Ya think no “judgement or determination” is being made, WHERE a departed “soul” will go?

Body Dies....and “uh...angel’s shall escort their soul to heaven....or uh that soul shall be sent to hell”..... “oh, oh....can’t decide, can’t determine, can’t judge.....?”.... Ofcourse a determination and judgement is made.

JUDGEMENT DAY....is an appointed day for the WHOLE of a man, body, soul, spirit, TO hear the Judges pronouncement regarding the WHOLE of the man, body, soul, spirit....IN RIGHTEOUSNESS...and the “sentence”, ie Consequential EFFECTS for the whole of the man’s, body, soul, spirit...IN RIGHTEOUSNESS to be MANIFESTED.

(Acts: 17:31)
 

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2020
8,444
584
113
Mount Morris
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Does no one recognize the contrast between Proverbs and Ecclesiastes?

Why do so many quote Ecclesiastes?

Proverbs is written from the wisdom of one submitting to the will of God.

Ecclesiastes is the ravings of a mad man after forsaking his God.
 

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,171
930
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Ya think no “judgement or determination” is being made, WHERE a departed “soul” will go?
We are told that the soul of a dead person goes back to God, who made it. Ecclesiastes 12:7

It is the false and impossible idea of going to live consciously in heaven immediately after death, before the Judgment; that I refute.
Or the even worse false idea of a 'rapture to heaven' of living people.
Get this: We are plainly told that we will be tested. Our faith must be strong enough to bear the hard times to come. Great will be the rewards for all who prove their faith and trust in the Lord.
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,849
3,271
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Sheer fantasy! How can any human go to heaven or hell; before Judgment?

The Bible prophesies are plain; only after the Millennium, does God sit and Judge all mankind. Revelation 20:11-15
It appears you deny the biblical doctrine of "Hell" and its torment upon the "Soul" at death

This doctrine and teaching in denial of "Hell" is found in the Jehovah's Witnesses and 7th Day Adventist, better known as "Soul Sleep"

The wicked "Soul" of the dead, enters "Hell" "Immediately" upon death, as scripture clearly teaches below

Hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire at the "Final Judgement" this is the second death

Revelation 20:14KJV
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Psalm 55:15KJV
15 Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them.

Luke 16:19-31KJV
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
 
Last edited:

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,849
3,271
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Saved soul’s go to Heaven.
Unsaved soul’s go to Hell.


Ya think no “judgement or determination” is being made, WHERE a departed “soul” will go?

Body Dies....and “uh...angel’s shall escort their soul to heaven....or uh that soul shall be sent to hell”..... “oh, oh....can’t decide, can’t determine, can’t judge.....?”.... Ofcourse a determination and judgement is made.

JUDGEMENT DAY....is an appointed day for the WHOLE of a man, body, soul, spirit, TO hear the Judges pronouncement regarding the WHOLE of the man, body, soul, spirit....IN RIGHTEOUSNESS...and the “sentence”, ie Consequential EFFECTS for the whole of the man’s, body, soul, spirit...IN RIGHTEOUSNESS to be MANIFESTED.

(Acts: 17:31)
Taken the righteous "Souls" go to a place defined by scripture as "Abraham's Bosom" a place in the presence of the Lord's comfort as seen in post #1687 above, yes the wicked "Soul" enters immediate torment in "Hell" as scripture clearly teaches
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,568
12,984
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We are told that the soul of a dead person goes back to God, who made it. Ecclesiastes 12:7

You don’t harmonize scripture. IF, Who, When, Why

It is the false and impossible idea of going to live consciously in heaven immediately after death, before the Judgment; that I refute.

Again, you do NT harmonize scripture.

Or the even worse false idea of a 'rapture to heaven' of living people.

Rapture is Christ’s Church being delivered to the Lord in the clouds for the Lord’s preparation to return to Earth with His saints to occupy His Kingdom.

Get this: We are plainly told that we will be tested.

Already been tested and passed and received my reward.

Our faith must be strong enough to bear the hard times to come.

True. Hard times From God is coming to Earth to quench all unrighteousness. Are you hoping your faith will be strong enough for you to become made righteous and lay down your life for the Lord?

Great will be the rewards for all who prove their faith and trust in the Lord.

True. I’ve already been approved by the Lord God.
Why haven’t you?
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,568
12,984
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Taken the righteous "Souls" go to a place defined by scripture as "Abraham's Bosom" a place in the presence of the Lord's comfort as seen in post #1687 above.

THAT place, “WAS” in Hell.
Hell had/has a descriptive Division. Comfort side, Torment side.
Necessary until the deliverer’s own soul WENT and was FIRST to BE delivered.
Jesus IS the deliverer.
His Body had to die,
His Soul had to depart His body.
His Soul had to go to the Comfort side of Hell (Paradise).
His Soul had to BE FIRST to leave, be Delivered unto Heaven.
(Col :17) He is FIRST/BEFORE all things.

Since Jesus’ Soul went to Heaven, thereafter, departed SAV-ED souls, also go to Heaven. Departed UN-sav-ED souls, continue to go Hells torment side.

Where the Tree of Life IS...IS called Paradise...IS being in the Presence of the Lord.
The Tree of Life...WAS in the Garden of Eden...WAS in the Comfort side of Hell....IS in Heaven....Shall Again be ON Earth.

Everything good, becomes corrupted. The Tree of Life, moves to avoid corruption.

~ The Tree of Life, IS offered, IS given to sustain mans spiritual life...
And fiercely protected by Gods Angels...that that “WAY” of Tree of Life can not be corrupted or destroyed by Evil...

Gen 3:
[24] So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

yes the wicked "Soul" enters immediate torment in "Hell" as scripture clearly teaches

Yes.
 

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,171
930
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Rapture is Christ’s Church being delivered to the Lord in the clouds for the Lord’s preparation to return to Earth with His saints to occupy His Kingdom.
What Paul prophesies in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is a transportation of those Christians who remain, thru the atmosphere, to where Jesus will be. Which is Jerusalem.
1/ Jesus has already departed from heaven.
2/ Those transported do not go to heaven.
3/ They are gathered by angels, as Matthew 24:31 tells us.
4/ They are not changed or 'glorified', they remain as mortal humans.
5/ They will be the co rulers and priests for King Jesus. Revelation 5:10, Isaiah 66:21

Speculations and additions to scripture are not advisable.
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,849
3,271
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What Paul prophesies in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is a transportation of those Christians who remain, thru the atmosphere, to where Jesus will be. Which is Jerusalem.
1/ Jesus has already departed from heaven.
2/ Those transported do not go to heaven.
3/ They are gathered by angels, as Matthew 24:31 tells us.
4/ They are not changed or 'glorified', they remain as mortal humans.
5/ They will be the co rulers and priests for King Jesus. Revelation 5:10, Isaiah 66:21

Speculations and additions to scripture are not advisable.
Your claim is fantasy land, a fabricated fairy tale of man, all believers being transported to Jerusalem, Star Trek, Beam me up Scotty time

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, the righteous will pass through the fire to the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spiritual Israelite

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,568
12,984
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What Paul prophesies in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is a transportation of those Christians who remain, thru the atmosphere, to where Jesus will be. Which is Jerusalem.
1/ Jesus has already departed from heaven.
2/ Those transported do not go to heaven.
3/ They are gathered by angels, as Matthew 24:31 tells us.
4/ They are not changed or 'glorified', they remain as mortal humans.
5/ They will be the co rulers and priests for King Jesus. Revelation 5:10, Isaiah 66:21

Speculations and additions to scripture are not advisable.

You are not the first to appoint yourself as a lone wolf Prophet and Messenger.

In the beginning God established Division(S);
Heaven AND Earth
Light AND Dark
With God AND Without God
His People AND Not His People.
Israel His People AND All others Not Israel, Not His People.

God sent His Word (Jesus) TO Israel, Gods People.
His Word (Jesus) Taught a few, in Judah, then to all of the Tribes.
His Word (Jesus) Preached and Caused Division Among Israel.
Division among Israel, WAS/IS;
...Israel With God, Primarily (Scattered Tribes).
...Israel, Primarily (Tribe of Judah) With God AND His Word (Jesus).
...Israel, Primarily (Scattered Tribes), then Judah, Rejecting the Word of God (Jesus).

Jesus selected Saul/Paul, and Saul/Paul Agreed, to Preach the Word of God Among the Gentiles mingled with Israel.
...Gentiles broadly Accepting the Word of God (Jesus) and God.

To this day, 4,000 years later, plus 2,000 years later...
...Division among the People Continues.
...Israel (all scattered Tribes) broadly maintaining Belief IN God, Rejecting Jesus IS the Word of God.
...Gentiles (individually choosing) Belief IN God, Accepting Jesus IS the Word of God.

* DIVISION AMONG MEN CONTINUES;
~ Men; (Israel AND Gentile who reject God, reject the Word of God)
~ Israel WITH God...
~ Gentiles WITH God AND WITH the Word of God...
~ A FEW Gentiles WITH God AND WITHIN the Word of God...

Until you recognize the DIVISIONS continue...
And WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, HOW, WHY....the DIVIDED become SEPARATED....you will continue to inappropriately and falsely APPLY Scriptural Teaching to PEOPLE, the Scripture DOES NOT APPLY to.


Until you recognize God IS ANGRY, and WHY, and HOW God foretells His INTENT to Deal with His ANGER....you will continue to inappropriately and falsely preach what IS NOT Gods foretelling and intent.


Gods ANGER? Read it, Learn it....IT IS DIVISION.
DIVISION of WHAT? People
WHAT People? ALL People.
WHAT DIVISION?


PROTOCOL -
* HEAR -
(Rom 10:17...hear, receive Faith from God)
* FAITH a Gift from God for HEARING (Rom 10:17)
* FAITH without Works, Dead. (James 2:14-16)
* VERIFY what you HEAR. (1 Thes 5:21)
* WORKS is BELIEVING (John 6:29)
* BELIEVE what you HEARD and VERIFIED (John 6:29)
* REPENT for having HAD not believed. (1 John 1:9)
* SERVICE is CONFESS BELIEF, IN God & the one He Sent. (Rom 12:1)
* TRUST God IS Faithful (Prov 3:5)
* RECEIVE willingly Gods Baptism (Matt 20:23)
* HS BAPTIZED have PUT ON CHRIST (Gal 3:27)
* HS BAPTIZED NEW CREATURE (2 Cor 5:17)
* HS BAPTIZED DELIVERED (2 Cor 1:10)
* and
* HS BAPTIZED SHALL BE DELIVERED FROM WRATH TO COME

(2 Cor 1:10 ~ Rom 5:9-10 ~ Rom 8:1 )
* WRATH TO COME (1 Thes 1:9-10)
* HS BAPTIZED NOT APPOINTED TO WRATH (1 Thes 5:9)
* EXCLUSIVE NOT APPOINTED TO WRATH:
* A FEW WITH God AND WITHIN the Word of God...
* IF ^ THAT BE YOU...learn HOW you are ESCAPED from the Wrath to Come.
* IF ^ THAT NOT BE YOU...HOPE you become SAVED during the Wrath to Come.

Preaching the new creatures are subject to the Wrath to Come...
IS FALSE.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,501
21,648
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
A dragon being bound with a chain is clearly figurative language. But, it should be understood literally? Really? No. Satan, a spirit being, can't be literally bound with a chain. Think about this more carefully instead of making assumptions based on a carnal rather than spiritual perspective.
Carnal?

OK.

I think the meaning of the passage is is that Satan will be bound. Whether a stainless steel chain or an astral chain or "chains of God's commandment", he will be bound.

Some of us are saying that your understanding of what deceiving the nations means is flawed

Perhaps your concept of what "bound for 1000 years after Jesus returns" may be lacking?

Much love!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,501
21,648
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hebrews 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
Do you believe in the 1000 year kingdom? A literal 1000 years of Jesus ruling this earth from Jerusalem?

Much love!
 

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,171
930
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Your claim is fantasy land, a fabricated fairy tale of man, all believers being transported to Jerusalem, Star Trek, Beam me up Scotty time
You directly reject Matthew 24:31 I will send My angels to gather My people from every part of the earth.
To Jerusalem, where He will be. Zechariah 14:4

It is the false idea of a 'rapture to heaven', that is the fantasy.
Also your weird belief that Jesus destroys everything when He Returns.
Do you believe in the 1000 year kingdom? A literal 1000 years of Jesus ruling this earth from Jerusalem?
Anyone who doesn't believe the thousand year Millennium after Jesus Returns, is in denial and rejection of plainly stated scripture.
Revelation 20 states the thousand years six times, the false idea that it means something else, is a direct taking away from the Words of the Book of Revelation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks and Davy

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,705
2,521
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You are not the first to appoint yourself as a lone wolf Prophet and Messenger.
....

* WRATH TO COME (1 Thes 1:9-10)
* HS BAPTIZED NOT APPOINTED TO WRATH (1 Thes 5:9)

....
Preaching the new creatures are subject to the Wrath to Come...
IS FALSE.

Ha, ha, ha! So... funny!
Anyone who can READ the first part of Paul's 1 Thessalonians 5 Chapter well knows that the "day of the Lord" on the LAST DAY of this world is the time that Paul was talking about, and the WRATH to happen on that LAST DAY is GOD'S CUP OF WRATH UPON THE WICKED!

And Paul even gave a great hint to the WISE servants of Christ in that 1 Thessalonians 5 Chapter, when he said the "day of the Lord" will so come "as a thief in the night"! Why is that a greater hint of the timing?...

... Because Lord Jesus showed the day of His coming will be "AS A THIEF" (Revelation 16:15). Paul showed that Christ's servants instead will be watching so that that day won't overtake them as a thief. Jesus even revealed that in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13!

SO ANYONE LISTENING TO 'TAKEN' HERE IS HEADED FOR THE DITCH!
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
4,330
1,839
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In other words SI does not believe God can make something he calls a "chain" and have an angel bind satan with that "chain". Also take note that not one word is mentioned about being locked and sealed in a pit. Amillennialists only wants to talk about "binding" not the other things done to satan.
LOL. Of course I believe He COULD do that, but I recognize that it's talking about a dragon being chained up and that figuratively represents Satan's binding. You don't recognize that because your default is to assume any given verse within the highly symbolic book of Revelation is meant to be interpreted literally.
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
4,330
1,839
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You directly reject Matthew 24:31 I will send My angels to gather My people from every part of the earth.
To Jerusalem, where He will be. Zechariah 14:4

It is the false idea of a 'rapture to heaven', that is the fantasy.
Also your weird belief that Jesus destroys everything when He Returns.
He does not believe in a "rapture to heaven". You just make yourself look foolish when you falsely represent someone's view like this.

Anyone who doesn't believe the thousand year Millennium after Jesus Returns, is in denial and rejection of plainly stated scripture.
Revelation 20 states the thousand years six times, the false idea that it means something else, is a direct taking away from the Words of the Book of Revelation.
LOL. As if the number of times it's referenced determines if it's literal or not. The beast is referenced over 30 times in the book, so does that make it a literal beast? Your arguments are weak, at best.
 

Spiritual Israelite

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2022
4,330
1,839
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Carnal?

OK.

I think the meaning of the passage is is that Satan will be bound. Whether a stainless steel chain or an astral chain or "chains of God's commandment", he will be bound.
We all believe that Satan either has been or will be bound, but we obviously don't agree on what it means for him to be bound.

Perhaps your concept of what "bound for 1000 years after Jesus returns" may be lacking?
I'm not Premil, so I don't believe in that concept.

Do you believe in the 1000 year kingdom? A literal 1000 years of Jesus ruling this earth from Jerusalem?
No, I do not. I'm an amillennialist.
 
Last edited: