The problem with the thousand years?

[Truth7t7]

Your doctrine provides the kick off to Preterism

Your claim is in error, I'm (Futurist) in my eschatology that is (Ahmillennial)

Preterism is built around the Olivet discourse in Matthew 24, primarily the 3 items below

I'm (Futurist) and believe all 3 items below will be fulfilled in the "Future"

(Partial Preterist) believe one or two have been fulfilled

(Full Preterist) believe all three are fulfilled

1. Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD
2. Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation
3. Matthew 24:30 The Second Coming

 

[Truth7t7]

The reign of Christ is also known as the day of Christ. It has several different descriptions. Do you think Christ can only reign over man 0 days on earth and Satan can reign as the prince of this earth for millennium’s? Is that what you think of Christ?

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Truther]

We will disagree, 1,000 years isnt literal time on earth as you believe, it's doing nothing more than explaining that this represents the Lords eternal spiritual realm, where one day is a thousand years (No Earthly Time) the eternal spiritual

In other words, six times in a row, 1000 years specifically said, is not enough to convince you of 1000 years.

 

[Truther]

Your claim is in error, I'm (Futurist) in my eschatology that is (Ahmillennial)

Preterism is built around the Olivet discourse in Matthew 24, primarily the 3 items below

I'm (Futurist) and believe all 3 items below will be fulfilled in the "Future"

(Partial Preterist) believe one or two have been fulfilled

(Full Preterist) believe all three are fulfilled

1. Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD
2. Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation
3. Matthew 24:30 The Second Coming

Any futurist that claims to be a futurist that says that there is no future earthly kingdom for Jesus to reign on planet earth is a preterist in disguise.
They think written scripture means other than it is written.
We will call you a pre partial Preterist.

 

[Truther]

You still don’t get it, Peter said those days were there in Acts 2. He quoted the end. He said this is that which was spoke by Joel. What you are describing is the end of that era. Just like Peter was.

 

[Truth7t7]

Any futurist that claims to be a futurist that says that there is no future earthly kingdom for Jesus to reign on planet earth is a preterist in disguise.
They think written scripture means other than it is written.
We will call you a pre partial Preterist.

Jesus Christ Warned His Followers, Concerning Him Being On This Earth In A Millennium (Beware)

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Truth7t7]

You still don’t get it, Peter said those days were there in Acts 2. He quoted the end. He said this is that which was spoke by Joel. What you are describing is the end of that era. Just like Peter was.

Who are you talking to, the mind reader?

Proper etiquette is to give reference to a poster

 

[Truther]

Jesus Christ Warned His Followers, Concerning Him Being On This Earth In A Millennium (Beware)

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

This is regarding Jesus’ future reign as per the prophets and Rev 20....


6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Right, it is a future event reserved for the millennial generation.

 

[farouk]

1 Timothy 1:13,16 KJV
[13] Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. [16] Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

@Waiting on him How patient and longsuffering is our gracious God!

 

[Timtofly]

No only Jesus can do that that’s nice what I was saying there are many anointed ones.

See the two anointed ones below

Daniel 9:25-26
25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.

The anointed ruler comes at seven sevens and sixty two sevens so a total of sixty nine sevens.

The other anointed one is cut off at sixty two sevens a total of sixty two sevens.

If Jesus is the one anointed one here how can He die seven sevens before He comes?

It does not say after 62.

It says after the 62. The 62 are the last sets of 7's after the 7 sets at the beginning. The Messiah still comes after the full 69 sets. There is not a 49 year gap between 2 different Messiahs.

 

[Timtofly]

Historicism is the only hermeneutic that runs in harmony with prophecy. The only way the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation can be rightly understood. And when they are understood correctly, one realizes how very little time we have remaining to prepare ourselves for Christ's coming. Both preterism and futurism conveniently hides the Antichrist from history which gives me no confidence that the majority of God's church will be able to recognize Him when the final test comes.

Each human that ever lived has their own history to live out. There is not going to be this mystery AC prior to the Second Coming.

All history, only shows, how each generation faced trouble and some were conquerors. Others compromised with the enemy.

 

[Timtofly]

sure, not denying any of these ok, but i do suggest that there are other interpretations. For instance we are led to assume “future” for all of these, but there is no reason that they cannot be “now” either; the harvest is “now” right?

There is always a harvest. The harvest by the angels is the final harvest. No more after this harvest. The harvest after the final harvest only has people choosing between taking the mark, or chopping their head off. It is a self harvest of one's head. One does not keep enjoying this life after that point. At least not until a resurrection happens for them. No where does it say the angels have left before that point.

Since the angels have been doing the marking and harvesting, would that not mean, the angels are still here putting the mark on heads, or cutting heads off? Only God gives humans the right at this time to decide their eternal fate, in a life changing decision. Why would an angel not certify that decision, by either placing the mark, or removing one's head? Revelation 13 never states Satan chops off heads. The only power Satan has is to kill those who do not worship him. One could still be marked for rejecting God, and killed by Satan for rejecting to worship Satan. Many have been stubborn like that throughout history.

 

[Timtofly]

Please listen to what I say because I have stated it many times already an I think that I am bring misunderstood.

I totally agree with the verses above no question there but my point is that the mark must be what Jesus mentioned in the verses that you quoted as that is the only unforgivable sin. Its constant blasphemy of the Holy Spirit by constant rejection of the Holy Spirit and the ones with the mark do that as they must have a constant unrepentant devotion to the beast.

If its not that then John 3:16 can't stand if it is that then John 3:16 can stand.

Its not about if they repent or not its can they repent or not

John 3:16 can never fail. What is a fail if any human at any time rejects God's gift. Humans refusing Salvation does not negate John 3:16. The mark is just physical proof of this rejection.

At that point, if an angel carrying a tattoo gun or a sword, walks up to someone, the sword is the gift of God, in love, but the result is having one's head chopped off. There will be a resurrection, but that is still a decision of faith. Most making that decision will probably have never heard, nor read the part in Revelation about a resurrection.

 

[Timtofly]

Yeah, you’d think with all the pronouns given in that chapter even Ray Charles could see it ?

According to you, Ray Charles lived in the wrong generation.

 

[Timtofly]

Matthew 24:15 KJV
[15] When ye, Peter, James, John, Andrew. therefore shall see the abomination of desolation

They all certainly entered Paradise in their generation. Were they all even in the same location when they passed from death unto life?

 

[bbyrd009]

Since the angels have been doing the marking and harvesting, would that not mean, the angels are still here putting the mark on heads, or cutting heads off?

well, do you know anyone whose head has been cut off, lately? I suggest that that is an analogy, fwiw

Only God gives humans the right at this time to decide their eternal fate, in a life changing decision. Why would an angel not certify that decision, by either placing the mark, or removing one's head?

maybe bc you do not know what spirit you are of? But im pretty sure “eternal” doesnt mean what we are taught anyway

The only power Satan has is to kill those who do not worship him

are you sure about that? Never heard it before, where did you get that from?

 

[Timtofly]

Interesting thought, but, speaking of "unprovable", well, it's a very interesting thought!

Much love!

Are you saying that Jesus could not prove it was possible to leave reality and return? I doubt most really think much about what happens outside of a mile radius of their lives.

God declares there is no one besides Him. Probably many interpretations on that one phrase. Not necessarily that God is unique, but I have put together many models, and I was always on the outside of the model, and never inserted myself into the model. Creation did not exist, and GOD did. God also inserted Himself into creation. Some people confuse eternity and outside of creation as the same thing. Some equate heaven and Paradise as eternity. What do they mean when they say the NHNE is eternity? How can creation be the same place as "outside" of creation? Eternity is not a place nor location to "go to". Normally it means time that never ends. Outside of creation there is no time at all. Remember there is nothing beside God, not even time.

Heaven is still part of creation. I think people tend to make the spiritual a completely different creation at times.

 

[Timtofly]

Psalm 69:21-24 KJV
[21] They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink. [22] Let their table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap. [23] Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake. [24] Pour out thine indignation upon them, and let thy wrathful anger take hold of them.

Was that limited to David's generation?

 

[Timtofly]

The God that gives what you call free will, created the vessel that he already knows will be to honor and dishonor

Free Will is in your minute human perception, God is sovereign and knows the creation and outcome of the vessel

Will you be the vessel to question Gods sovereignty?

Will you also symbolize the clear words of God below?

Romans 9:20-21KJV
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

You are putting too much emphasis on the wrong point. You imply determinism hypocritically. Just spit it out, there is no free will if God already determined what a vessel is at conception. You do not accept free will, so stop pretending there is free will.

You are wrong in your determinism, even if you don't straight up say what you are implying.

 

[Timtofly]

The God that gives what you call free will, created the vessel that he already knows will be to honor and dishonor

Free Will is in your minute human perception, God is sovereign and knows the creation and outcome of the vessel

Will you be the vessel to question Gods sovereignty?

Will you also symbolize the clear words of God below?

Romans 9:20-21KJV
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Yes God has the right to force all to be one thing or the other. Paul is asking a question, not making a statement of fact. There is a difference. Some people are placed on earth for a certain purpose. They do not have a choice, unless they pass the opportunity on to another person. Many refuse to be whom God created them for. The few who choose God are found in Hebrews 11. Did God force them to have faith? Would that still be faith if God already determined they had no other choice?

Compare this:

"By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible."

To this:

"And Moses said unto the Lord, O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue. And the Lord said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the Lord? Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say. And he said, O my Lord, send, I pray thee, by the hand of him whom thou wilt send. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart. And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do. And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God."

Moses lost his free will ability when God chose Him. Moses lost God's will when he exercised his free will:

"Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink. And Moses took the rod from before the Lord, as he commanded him. And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock? And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also. And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them."

Moses disobeyed God, and exercised his free will at the wrong time. If Moses had never obeyed God at the burning bush, would God have found some one else?

Moses was an example of how obedience works. Faith is not obedience. Faith is not knowing the result of obedience. It is not something God forces on us. Moses is also an example that determinism does not exist. That Moses was even alive was the faith of his parents. That Moses did not finish his God ordained plan shows us God does not determine one's life the way that Paul asks his question. Can God determine all of life? The answer would be yes. That God does would nullify obedience and faith.