Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
The trinity is a very important topic because, if it is erroneous, then the consequences of accepting and promoting it will be dire. It is a clear breach of the First Commandment to put other "gods" in the Father's place. (Exodus 20:3) Christendom has put not one, but two more gods in the Father's place.Yes I understand, I see your point
Please bear will me
As regards 1 John 5:7-9...
“For there are three witness bearers: the spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
If we accept the witness of men, the witness of God is greater. Because this is the witness God gives, the witness that he has given about his Son.”
the three are, one the spirit of God as I understand, by water is Holy Spirit, and by blood, John the baptist confirmed Christ is Christ
Christ came by water and blood, this is manifest in the flesh
the three are confirmed, a man, John the baptist confirmed Christ
I can see that you are inserting ideas that are not really there....that is reading into scripture what Christ never taught. There is no scripture that directly says that Jesus is Almighty God and that he is part of a three in one "godhead". Not one.
John was the son of Salome and Zechariah who were relatives of Mary. That makes John a cousin of Jesus and most probably heard from his parents about the circumstances of the miraculous birth of both of them. He had grown up knowing that he had an important role to play in the Messiah's acceptance.John 1:6-13 (NKJV)There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.
He was not that Light but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
That was the true Light that gives light to every man coming into the world.
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God?
The world was made "through" him not by him. Colossians 1:15-17 makes that clear. Jesus is God's firstborn son, created before anything else. (Revelation 3:14) He was used by his Father to create all things, but he is never once said to be "the Creator."
This is called agency....through Jesus, as his representative, Jehovah acts and directs all things. There is only one God and like us, Jesus is God's "servant" (Acts 4:27).....not just any servant, but a trusted son, and "holy servant" who always did the will of his Father...never his own. (John 5:30)
Again you are assuming to interpret scripture in the way that supports the trinity.In Matthew 3:13-17 (NKJV)Then Jesus came from Galilee to John the baptist at the Jordan to be baptized by him.
And John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?"
But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he allowed Him.
When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
Three that bear witness
The water of Baptism is a symbolism...not of the holy spirit, but of Jesus' dying to his former course in life and beginning a new dedicated ministry and relationship with his God and Father.
Baptism is a symbolic death, burial and a resurrection.....Christ had no sins to repent of...that is why John was reluctant to baptize him. Unlike the Jews, baptism for Christians was not for repentance of sins, because it was Jesus' blood that cleansed them from sin. (1 John 1:7) Christian baptism was a dedicating of oneself to God to do his will first in life.....as Jesus said, only those "doing the will of the Father" will gain entry into the Kingdom of God. Those found not doing so would be rejected. (Matthew 7:21-23)
Ok....the KJV is a very poor translation I'm afraid....so biased towards the trinity it isn't funny.1 Tim 3:14-16 (KJV) These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit, seen of angels,
Preached unto the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up into glory.
This is how the NASB renders these verses....
"I am writing these things to you, hoping to come to you before long; 15 but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one should act in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth. 16 Beyond question, great is the mystery of godliness:
He who was revealed in the flesh,
Was vindicated in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Proclaimed among the nations,
Believed on in the world,
Taken up in glory."
It does not say in the original Greek that "God was manifest in the flesh"......
It says "he who was manifest in the flesh" which was Jesus Christ....not God.
I assure you that there is not a single scripture in the NT that directly states that Jesus is the same God as his Father....or even equal to him in any way. The holy spirit is never once called "God the Holy Spirit". These titles were made up to lead people astray from the truth.
If Jesus never taught about a triune god, then it cannot be true.
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