The TRUE Meaning Of The Little Horn Prophecy For the End
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Drafted up a day or so ago:
The fact that you don't know the whole story doesn't mean that anyone's changing theirs.
There's sound prophetic interpretation that explains papal Rome's dual rise and fall.
The elephant in the room, at this point, is your apparent effort to get us to ignore the fact that the clay in the ten toes of the "great image" is mixed with IRON (which would make it by its very nature different, in some way, than pagan Rome).
Ironic (no pun intended), considering the emphasis on affirming the necessity of Scripture interpreting itself, despite the fact that no less than 3 verses of Daniel 2 (41-43) are devoted to this insoluble mixture.
Is it just a coincidence that the second beast of Revelation 13 (verse 11) comes up out of the earth/CLAY? I think not. An extensive study of the original languages reveals otherwise.
The union of the first and second beasts of Revelation 13 matches perfectly with the 5th, divided-but-desperate-to-unite empire of Daniel 2. The 7 remaining kingdoms leftover from the little horn's uprooting will follow right along.
The ten toes of the feet (as well as the ten horns of Daniel 7) represent the divided nations that emerged from the pagan Roman empire that, try as they might (Remember Brexit?), are ordained by God to have no ultimate success in "cleaving one to another" (Daniel 2:43).
Rome persecuted Christians as a pagan empire in the early church era, then again as a church/state during the Middle Ages and will, again, do so a third time, at which, with 3 strikes on the board, will see them called "OUT."
We all have a lot to learn and unlearn, for "we have this treasure in earthen (clay) vessels" (2 Corinthians 4:7).
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The fact that you don't know the whole story doesn't mean that anyone's changing theirs.
There's sound prophetic interpretation that explains papal Rome's dual rise and fall.
The elephant in the room, at this point, is your apparent effort to get us to ignore the fact that the clay in the ten toes of the "great image" is mixed with IRON (which would make it by its very nature different, in some way, than pagan Rome).
Ironic (no pun intended), considering the emphasis on affirming the necessity of Scripture interpreting itself, despite the fact that no less than 3 verses of Daniel 2 (41-43) are devoted to this insoluble mixture.
Is it just a coincidence that the second beast of Revelation 13 (verse 11) comes up out of the earth/CLAY? I think not. An extensive study of the original languages reveals otherwise.
The union of the first and second beasts of Revelation 13 matches perfectly with the 5th, divided-but-desperate-to-unite empire of Daniel 2. The 7 remaining kingdoms leftover from the little horn's uprooting will follow right along.
The ten toes of the feet (as well as the ten horns of Daniel 7) represent the divided nations that emerged from the pagan Roman empire that, try as they might (Remember Brexit?), are ordained by God to have no ultimate success in "cleaving one to another" (Daniel 2:43).
Rome persecuted Christians as a pagan empire in the early church era, then again as a church/state during the Middle Ages and will, again, do so a third time, at which, with 3 strikes on the board, will see them called "OUT."
We all have a lot to learn and unlearn, for "we have this treasure in earthen (clay) vessels" (2 Corinthians 4:7).
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Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst (Hebrew chetsiy) of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV
OT:2677 chetsiy (khay-tsee'); from OT:2673; the half or middle:
KJV - half, middle, mid [-night], midst, part, two parts.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
You are still playing 'games' by refusing to recognize that Hebrew word for "midst" means 'half', and not some idea like 'within', like being in the midst of a group.
When you cut a slice of bread in half, you are cutting it in the MIDDLE.
So your sly attempt to try and change the language just ain't... gonna' work!
Davy, I can cut a slice of bread in half and not touch the crust on the slices of the bread slice.
I can cut a slice of bread in half by cutting across the slice of bread so that I cut the crust on the slice of bread on opposite sides of the slice of bread, but to say that i have cut the slice of bread in half is a figure of speech whereby eye it looks like I have cut the slice of bread in half but the reality is that the slice of bread looks like it has been cut in half but the reality is that I have approached the reality that the slice of bread looks fairly even on both sides of where I had cut the slice but without precision.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
And the dish ran away with the spoon...
To bad we're talking about linear time and not 3D bread. How can halfway through a week be anywhere but the 3½ day point?
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When a mother yells out to her children playing in the street, "Get out of the middle of the road" she is not referring to the mid-point in the road.
The text does not say mid point. And the week of Daniel 9:27 is 7 years long.
To bad we're talking about linear time and not 3D bread. How can halfway through a week be anywhere but the 3½ day point?
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To bad we're talking about linear time and not 3D bread. How can halfway through a week be anywhere but the 3½ day point?
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The figure of speak that the "middle of the week" is a precise idiom show the futility of this argument. All that is being stated is that sometime near the middle of the week, this will occur. When the middle of the week is, is irrelevant but what will happen is.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Well, then, I guess an ancient Hebrew wouldn't have used an expression with the word "chatsi/וַחֲצִ֨י" in the "middle" of it to call their child out of a busy road.
You're half-right, anyway. And I do mean "half."
Christ was baptized in the autumn of 27AD, crucified in the spring of '31, and Stephen was stoned in the autumn of '34, ending the "confirmation of the covenant with many" (Daniel 9:27).
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Unless it's not a "figure of speak" in the ancient Hebrewspeak.
And "somewhere near" isn't in the text.
You're eisegeting the daylights out of this, Jay.
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Jesus arrived in Jerusalem in John 12:12-15, hailed as the King of Israel messiah. 4 days later was crucified. 69th week over. 70th week still to go.
There is a 2000 year gap between the 69th week and the 70th week. The 70th week is the 7 years in Ezekiel 39:9-10.
Ezekiel 39 breakdown:
In Ezekiel 39, the destruction of Gog's army verses 1-6
In Ezekiel 39, then followed by 7 years verses 9-10 (the 70th week )
In Ezekiel 39, then the Armageddon event verses 17-20
In Ezekiel 39, then Jesus's return to this earth verses 21-29
____________________________________________________
The 70th week is still unfilled and within it will be the Daniel 8:11-14 time of the end vision about the little horn person
Follow through Daniel 9:21-24, about the vision. Daniel first encountered Gabriel in Daniel 8 regarding the 2300 day time of the end vision about the little horn person.
21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
The 2300 day time of the end vision about the little horn person of Daniel 8:11-14 will fit within the forth coming 70th week. Which the 70th week will be the 7 years in Ezekiel 39:9-10
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
The sacrifice and oblation ceases in the middle of the 70th week as the veil in the temple is torn in two.
Nice enough chart, though.
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But not like what the SDAs have done in their end time understandings.
Daniel in Daniel12:11 speaks of the second half of the Daniel 9:27 prophecy being 2,190 days long.
Daniel 12:11: - 11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.
And in Revelation 11:3 we are informed that the two witnesses will prophesies for 1,260 days: -
Revelation 11:3: - 3 And I will empower my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.
It is my view that the above two scripture passages are talking about the Daniel 9:27 one week of years.
Now if the two witnesses operate during the "first half" of the seven year period for 1,260 days and the beast and the Little Horn/False Prophet operated during the second half of the 70th week of years, as Daniel states in Daniel 12:11, for 1,290 days, then the division of the 70th week between the first half and the second half is not as precise as the Daniel 9:27 verse suggests.
The question of how critical this understanding of when the division between the first and second half of the 70th week of years is a mute point and the respective time spans are not as important as the events that take place.
The following article was taken from Understanding the 1,260-year Prophecy | Adventist World
The prophetic period of “times and times and the dividing of time” (Dan. 7:25, KJV), has been historically understood by Adventists as comprising a period of 1,260 years during the Middle Ages. Prior to the French Revolution, Christian thinkers gave a range of views about when the period started and ended. But with the rise of Napoleon, and the exile into captivity of the pope by French general Berthier, there was a rare moment of near prophetic unanimity among Protestant expositors, who declared that this period ended in A.D. 1798. It was a matter, then, of running the period backward to find the starting point, which would be A.D. 538.
After the shock and clarity of the events of the 1790s subsided, however, some scholars could not see a decisive event in A.D. 538 that matched the clarity of a pope being exiled and dying in jail. Some thought that the beginning was signalled by the third horn of Daniel 7 being uprooted, which was the defeat of the Ostrogoths by Justinian’s general Belisarius in 538.
The trouble was that the decisive “defeat” appeared a little anticlimactic, as it involved the breaking of the Ostrogoth siege of Rome by Belisarius. The event was just one stage in an ongoing conflict that continued for at least two decades. The Ostrogoths regained Rome in the 540s, and needed to be dislodged again. The Ostrogoths were not fully defeated until about A.D. 553. So what made the 538 battle so much more prophetically significant and decisive than similar victories in the 540s and the final battle in 553?
The lack of a clear answer has caused some expositors to argue that 538 has no inherent significance and was merely chosen because of its convenient relationship to the decisive ending in 1798. This has caused some scholars, including some Adventists, to move away from viewing the 1,260-year prophecy as having a literal, historical application, and as being more of a symbolic number. This approach has also gained ground in relation to some other prophetic time periods, such as those found in the fifth and sixth trumpets of Revelation.
In this article I maintain that rather than military events, we should consider the creation or dissolution of legal structures. This legal approach, I believe, provides a firmer basis for this, and perhaps other, prophetic time periods.
I initially tried this same approach to establishing a time line for the end Time events but abandon this exercise when I could not get it to fit the scriptures and the end of the seventh Age.
Too bad, you just cannot change the meaning of 'half' that Daniel 9:27 points to, boo hoo, cry harder.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
That is okay, it was what I expected when scripture is quoted that tells us that the Jewish Calander takes into account the solar variations in the prophecies given.
If you were riding in a Taxi, and sitting in the back with a girl on each side of you, would you not be sitting in the 'middle'?
Yeah, you would be.
And just how many girls would be on either side of you? One on each 'side'.
And thus the meaning of 'half', or middle', or midst, in the Daniel 9:27 verse, the "one week" period of 7 years meaning 1260 days on each 'side'... from the middle. And this is just common sense, so those like Doug trying to change its meaning is just silly deception.
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