Understanding the Trinity.

[Scott Downey]

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,
19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,
"whom" means a person, in this case God the Holy Spirit.
So the Spirit raised up Christ, and then by that Holy Spirit, Christ went and preached to these spirits in prison, which would have been the dead in hell, such as during the time of Noah. To me that just also proves the 3 fold nature of the Godhood.

We have God the Father, God the Spirit, God the Son all 3 represented here in these 2 verses. It never means Christ raised as a spirit.

To be resurrected means there is a body, not just a spirit.

 

[tigger 2]

The idea there is Christ was raised by the spirit, not as a spirit.
God raised up Christ by His Spirit. There are some versions say in the spirit, by the spirit, but none say as a spirit.
Really the context is He whom Christ raised up. And Christ was raised by the Father.
1 Peter 3:18
NKJV
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,

That verse in many English versions
1 Peter 3:18 - Bible Gateway

Have you looked at the link you supplied? About half of the Bibles read like the NASB: "been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;"

 

[Scott Downey]

Jesus sat at the right hand of God-- Can you understand english? He did not sit at his own right hand. There is only one God and Jesus was sitting by the One God. If he were God they were already in subject to him, proving he is not God.

The 3 fold nature of God as distinct persons is just a given according to the scriptures, as Christ came in the form of God and it also says Christ was equal with God.
Isaiah 9:6 and Philippians 2 point this out very. very clearly, unmistakably so.

5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

 

[Curtis]

Jesus wasnt in his first body the first day they saw him, They did not recognize him. And being the son of God he can transform into any mortal he wants to. Flesh cannot walk through a locked door. Jesus did.

Because Jesus is God, that’s why He can walk through walls, heal the sick, raise the dead and walk on water.

FYI - Jesus’ rose in the same body, that was transformed into an immortal body, but still had the scars from the crucifixion in His hands, feet, and side - and Isaiah 52:14 says Jesus was beaten beyond recognition, so His face was disfigured then, too - and therefore He would look different after He rose.

That’s why Mary thought he was the gardener, until He spoke and she recognized His voice.

He had the same voice because it was the same body.

 

[Curtis]

Have you looked at the link you supplied? About half of the Bibles read like the NASB: "been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;"

Jesus rose in a body of flesh and bone, complete with scars in His hands, feet and side.

When He appeared to the disciples, they had the same error the watchtower has, and thought He was a ghost/spirit, but Jesus set them straight, by saying a spirit has no flesh and bones, as they could SEE HE HAD...

The watchtower ignores the words of Jesus that He rose bodily and NOT as. Ghost.

 

[Aunty Jane]

"MY GLORY I WILL NOT GIVE TO ANOTHER..." You missed the whole point of the argument.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. (John 17:5)

I think you missed the point......
John 17:5...how about some plain English instead of that dead language....?
5 and now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. (ESV)
Or
“and now, Father , glorify me at your side with the glory that I had with you before the world began.” (MOUNCE Interlinear)

Jesus was always “glorious” as all spirit beings are.......but none would ever match the glory of their Creator. You don’t seem to understand what “glory” means?

This is exactly my point (See emboldened text above).... Let us say that someone has a different eschatology than the Watchtower society teaches....they try to teach what they are seeing in the Word of God and they are labeled a troublemaker and silenced or even excommunicated.

Yes, just as they were unacceptable in the congregations in the first century. No one was at liberty to introduce their own ideas. It is one thing to hold a different view of something, but something else entirely to try to impose that view on others and thereby create divisions in the congregation. Why do you think Christendom is such a divided and disunited mess?

Jesus said that he would appoint a “faithful and wise slave” to “feed” his household their “food at the proper time”. Jesus told Peter to “feed my sheep” and to shepherd them, (John 21:15-17) so we know it wasn’t physical food that he spoke about, but spiritual nourishment and guidance. It was to come from one source and it was part of Jesus’ prophesy on the time of the end, when he would return to reward his slaves for a job well done......(Matthew 24:45)

What is Christendom “feeding” their flocks? There is no agreement and so many who are claiming to represent Christ whilst ignoring most of what he taught. They promote things that he never instructed his disciples to teach, most of which come from pagan sources.....the trinity, the cross as a religious symbol, immortality of the soul, hellfire, the celebrations of Christmas, Easter, infant baptism, etc....none of these are found in Christian scripture....they are spiritually “unclean” because of where they originated. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18) All can be traced back to ancient Babylon. Therefore “Babylon the great” includes those who teach these things. (Revelation 18:1-5)

For example, the 144,000 are said to be of the twelve tribes of Israel and virgin males. Is this an actual description or symbolic? Some say it is an actual description of the 144k others say it is symbolic of the church and the virginity is symbolic of their devotion to the church.... what have you. The watchtower has its own interpretation of this, and to question their interpretation os to be considered a "troublemaker".

We have identified the “slave” that Jesus appointed and we “feed” at his table, as Jesus instructed. There are only two tables at which people “feed” spiritually.....one is the table of Jehovah and the other is the table of demons.

1 Corinthians 10:20-21...
“No, I mean that what the pagans sacrifice is to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be partners with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot take part in the table of the Lord and the table of demons. Or are we trying to provoke the Lord to jealousy?” (NET)
We have the choice of who feeds us.....we are either “drawn” by God to feed at the right table, or we are not.

The 144,000 are contrasted with an unnumbered group in Revelation 7:4, 9-10, and Revelation 14:1-5 says that they are seen in heaven with the Lamb, they have been “bought from among mankind as firstfruits”. Their "virginity" has to be spiritual because some of the apostles were married.

The number would have to be literal or the contrast is pointless.
These have no gender because they become spirits to dwell in heaven. Gender is purely for reproduction. Jesus and his Father in heaven are not really “males”....but you knew that...right?

 

[Aunty Jane]

The true church is made up of many parts of the body not just one. The church is not all "hands", But feet and ears and eyes (See I Corinthians 12). There will be differences within the Body until the time the unity of the Spirit comes (Ephesians 4:11-16) and that Body is joined together as one. This is what I mean about denominationalism being a "good thing".

I was smiling at the word pictures of your description there....although the "body parts" are all useful, they still operate through one command center....they do not operate independently......imagine if they all operated on their own.....

The unity comes with Jehovah’s spirit.....it is a product of its operation and with Jesus directing all things in this time of the end, we expect a unified Christian body carrying out Christ’s teachings. When he gave his parting instructions to his disciples, recorded in Matthew 28:18-20,
He said....
“Then Jesus came up and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” (NET)

Those who have followed Jesus’ instructions will have the continued support of the Father, his Son and God’s spirit in fulfilling the “great commission” just as the recognition of these have supported their journey to baptism.....but Christendom’s churches have failed to do as they were instructed. When Jesus said that “...this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole inhabited earth as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come”, (Matthew 24:14 -NET) do you see what the commission was, and when it was to be carried out? Who is actively doing what Jesus commanded in “all the nations”?

We are facing “the end” right now and when Jesus returns as judge he will hold all to account for what they failed to do. (Ezekiel 3:17-19) His instruction was a command, not something we could shirk responsibility for because we didn’t want to do that. People’s lives are at stake and we owe them that warning....the end will come, but we have good news....”the end” doesn’t need to be the end of us.
This is what salvation means......saved from being destroyed with the wicked at Armageddon.

Yes there are many problems with denominationalism but this is how God designed his church.

Sorry but that is pure justification for Christendom’s divisions and disunity. God never “designed” anything that was disfunctional. Unity is the proof of God’s direction. No one would be ‘big noting’ themselves but faithfully and humbly carrying out Jesus’ instructions to the best of their ability.

Christendom’s members do not preach the Kingdom message because they have no idea what it is, or what it is going to do for mankind on this earth....they are so focused on going to heaven that they ignore the fact that this was never in God’s original purpose for the human race. This is not a training ground for heaven and never was.

He knew the nature of man and that the doctrines of men would lead to division, But he used this that in fellowship we would learn and know more of Christ, for we all Know in Part. This division was allowed for that we would learn to love one another with a brotherly Love.

I have yet to see it...where is this “love” y’all are supposed to have for one another? They bicker on here like enemies. Denying salvation to those who don’t believe what you believe, yet who said you are right and they are wrong? That is Jesus’ job.....he is the appointed judge of who gets salvation and who doesn’t....and for that I am extremely grateful.

I have faith in what Jesus said at John 6:44 and John 6:65.....
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him . . . .So Jesus added, “Because of this I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has allowed him to come.” (NET)
Our obligation is to present the truth, the rest is up to the receiver....and God.

It is God who determines those who are acceptable to him, and he therefore rejects those who fail to follow the instructions of his son. Will these know that God has rejected them? No....because they have believed a comfortable “delusion” and are happy to cling to it. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)

Those whom Jesus rejects at the judgment will be shocked at his words.....”I never knew you, get away from me you workers of lawlessness”.....(Matthew 7:21-23) Why do you think they are offering him excuses that he is dismissing out of hand?

Actually, no, I have attended a Jehovah's witness' church, read the watchtowers and spoken face to face with the elders in an interview format. They are very much like the Baptists in the church I grew up in, but something was missing. That something is the Love of God.

As someone who has been on both sides of this fence, I can tell you now, no church that I attended in my youth displayed anywhere near the love I have experienced among my global spiritual family. If Jehovah “draws” you, there is never confusion or doubt or ambiguity about what to believe. The truth is the truth......not someone’s version of it. It’s is held by all, who present themselves for baptism in full knowledge of it. They have studied God’s word and believe it with all their heart. A divided heart is easily corrupted.

We will all find out when that day comes, so we had better brush up on what Jesus commanded and “feed” at the table where his “slave” is serving spiritual nourishment. Finding the slave seems to be the hard part, but if you are “drawn” by God it becomes very easy. The truth is so crystal clear, you can’t understand why others are so blind.....but then there is a reason. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) God knows, and Jesus knows, who are sheep and who are goats....that is not our call.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You’re the one with a weak defense of JW error.

God dwells in glory that only God has, and says He won’t share that glory with another- if God’s glory was merely what all those in His creation has, it would be redundant to say He won’t give His glory to anyone else, because they already have it.

DUH!

Helloooo...no one said that. No one will attain to the glory of the Father.....he is the Creator of other glorious ones, but no one is his equal or ever will be......not even his firstborn son.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

You're looking at a fraction of the church if you are looking at the RCC. Read my comment above.... God knew men would cause divisions in the church, and he accounted for this when he designed the church, and used this as a means of teaching those who are his to mature and grow as they learned to love one another.

I can call a Calvinist a brother even though i am what one would call an Armenian, I can call a Wesleyan a Brother even though I am Baptist, I can call a charismatic a Brother even though I am a fundamentalist..... Some are still stuck in the denominational immaturity, and following the teachings of those men and doctrines they are following, I still love them even though I may disagree with them..... We all know in part and when maturity comes we begin to ask what truth does my brother have that I may learn more of the fulness of Christ. The truth, when we are mature enough to receive it, Unifies, not divides.

The Bible says God's Church is not divided, so the only logical conclusion to reach is that what you think is His Church is really just a collection of man-made churches that are all teaching doctrines that aren't supported by the Bible.

As it stands, trinitarians haven't even been able to agree with each other on how the trinity operates for centuries, even though they hilariously insist the doctrine is biblical. Is God really behind such confusion? The only answer any honest person can reach is an emphatic "no", because God is not the author of confusion. Satan however, is.

They affirmed the trinity in a council, they didn’t invent it, since it’s in scripture.

If it was really in the Bible, a council wouldn't have been needed to "affirm" it. Since when did anyone need a council to affirm basic truths that were clearly taught in the Bible? Did anyone need a council to affirm God as Creator of the universe, Jesus as the Lamb of God, and Satan as the adversary? No, because all of those things were clearly taught.

Those trinitarian councils were held for the same reason Catholics held other councils to "affirm" their heathen festivals as "Christian": they wanted to force their false doctrines into the Bible, no matter how much the Bible disagreed with or condemned them. That doesn't square with the Catholic or Protestant version of historical events, but that's the uncomfortable truth.

 

[Aunty Jane]

JW's don't believe God raised Christ from the dead, true that disqualifies them for salvation.
They also do not Believe Jesus Christ is LORD, also disqualifies them.

I just love it when people who are clueless, tell me what I do, and don't believe.....did you ever try asking a JW?

We do believe that God raised Jesus from the dead....we just don't believe that God raised himself from the dead.
We also don't believe that an Immortal God can die at the hands of mortal men.

We do believe that Jesus is "Lord"....."Lord" being a title of respect that is not exclusive to Jehovah. It is like calling someone “sir,” or “master”.
Abraham's wife Sarah called him "Lord" out of respect, not because she thought he was God. (1 Peter 3:6)

The Lord Jesus is therefore not the LORD Jehovah. The distinction is made even in Psalm 110:1-2 which in the Jewish Tanakh reads....."Yahweh said to my Lord...." English translations render that "The LORD said to my Lord"....how confusing as if the title "Lord" meant only God.

All the NT verses describing Christ as Lord acknowledge He is God the Son, they don't believe that. The believe Christ was a created person. They do not worship Christ.
This is not a concept being added to the scriptures.

"God the Son" is not a title found anywhere in the Bible.....please show me where I am wrong..."the Son of God" has a totally different meaning to that which Christendom wants to believe. So we believe Jesus...not the corrupt church that adopted that title for Jesus.
God has many "sons" of which Jesus is "firstborn". (Colossians 1:15)
We do not worship Jesus because our worship is only for his Father.....who is the one Jesus himself worshipped both in heaven and on earth.

When tempted by the devil, "Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘You are to worship the Lord your God and serve only him.’” (Luke 4:5-8) He was quoting Deuteronomy 10:20 where the tetragrammaton is found. So Jehovah alone is to be worshipped......Jesus is never once called "Jehovah". (Yahweh)

John 17:3...(NET)
"Now this is eternal life—that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you sent."
If Jesus identified his Father as "the only true God" without including himself, but then identified himself as the one Jehovah "sent", then that makes him a completely different entity to his God and Father....not to mention the fact that the holy spirit is missing altogether there...so where is the trinity?

Does one part of God worship his equal self?

The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me to lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside the still waters. He restores my soul; He leads me in the paths of righteousness For His name’s sake. ...

And that in the Jewish Tanakh reads.....
"The Lord [YAHWEH] is my shepherd; I shall not want. אמִזְמ֥וֹר לְדָוִ֑ד יְהֹוָ֥ה רֹ֜עִ֗י לֹ֣א אֶחְסָֽר:
2He causes me to lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside still waters. בבִּנְא֣וֹת דֶּ֖שֶׁא יַרְבִּיצֵ֑נִי עַל־מֵ֖י מְנֻח֣וֹת יְנַֽהֲלֵֽנִי:
3He restores my soul; He leads me in paths of righteousness for His name's sake. גנַפְשִׁ֥י יְשׁוֹבֵ֑ב יַנְחֵ֥נִי בְמַעְגְּלֵי־צֶ֜֗דֶק לְמַ֣עַן שְׁמֽוֹ:"

The "Lord" there is YAHWEH as you can see in the Hebrew text.
The Jews knew whose name was attached to them....and it wasn't Jesus. (2 Samuel 7:23; Psalm 106:7-8)

When Jesus prayed "Our Father who art in heaven hallowed by thy name"......whose name was he referring to?

 

[tigger 2]

Jehovah [YHWH] is the Father:

Isaiah 63:16. American Standard Version

16 For thou art our Father, though Abraham knoweth us not, and Israel doth not acknowledge us: thou, O Jehovah, art our Father; our Redeemer from everlasting is thy name.

Is. 64:8, ASV

8: But now, O Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Even many personal names of Israelites in the Bible actually said "Jehovah is the Father": "Abijah,' `Abiah,' `Joab,' etc. - but they never said anything remotely like `Jehovah is the Son' [or the Messiah, the Firstborn, etc.]!) - Deut. 32:6 ASV; Ps. 89:26, 27 (compare Heb. 1:5 and Ps. 2:7 ASV); Jer. 31:7, 9 ASV.

 

[Curtis]

The Bible says God's Church is not divided, so the only logical conclusion to reach is that what you think is His Church is really just a collection of man-made churches that are all teaching doctrines that aren't supported by the Bible.

As it stands, trinitarians haven't even been able to agree with each other on how the trinity operates for centuries, even though they hilariously insist the doctrine is biblical. Is God really behind such confusion? The only answer any honest person can reach is an emphatic "no", because God is not the author of confusion. Satan however, is.
If it was really in the Bible, a council wouldn't have been needed to "affirm" it. Since when did anyone need a council to affirm basic truths that were clearly taught in the Bible? Did anyone need a council to affirm God as Creator of the universe, Jesus as the Lamb of God, and Satan as the adversary? No, because all of those things were clearly taught.

Those trinitarian councils were held for the same reason Catholics held other councils to "affirm" their heathen festivals as "Christian": they wanted to force their false doctrines into the Bible, no matter how much the Bible disagreed with or condemned them. That doesn't square with the Catholic or Protestant version of historical events, but that's the uncomfortable truth.

You are biblically illiterate.

Some non Christian rabbis even agree the trinity is in the Hebrew Scriptures, and wrote about it in the Zohar.

The plurality of God is found in Genesis 1, where it says that in the beginning, ELOHIM created the heavens and the earth....

Elohim is not the singular name of God. It is the PLURAL name for God, translated literally as GODS.

And the plural name of God said, let US make man in OUR image.

So instead of the singular name of God saying let ME make man in MY image, the plural God said US and OUR.

The plurality of God shows up in the first chapter of the first book of the Bible.

The above is just one fact of many that shows that anti trinitarians are unlearned in biblical truth.

 

[Curtis]

Helloooo...no one said that. No one will attain to the glory of the Father.....he is the Creator of other glorious ones, but no one is his equal or ever will be......not even his firstborn son.

Yet Jesus shared that Glory with the father from before the world existed - the glory He won’t share with another...

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Isaiah 48:11

(GNB) What I do is done for my own sake—I will not let my name be dishonored or let anyone else share the glory that should be mine and mine alone."

(NET) For my sake alone I will act, for how can I allow my name to be defiled? I will not share my glory with anyone else!

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus rose in a body of flesh and bone, complete with scars in His hands, feet and side.

If that was true, then please tell me why his disciples did not recognize him? He walked and talked with them but during the 40 days he remained on earth, but he did not stay with his apostles as he had done for three and a half years. It is said that he "appeared" to them....and on one occasion, when they recognized the way he broke the bread, he actually disappeared before their eyes. Then he reappeared out of nowhere.....You think a body of flesh can do that?

If he had those gruesome wounds, (he was tortured before his death, and pierced after it) don't you think they would have been mentioned all the times that he "appeared" to his apostles? Yet they were mentioned only twice, and only his hands and his side.

And why, when God had healed so many through the holy spirit imparted to Jesus at his baptism, did God not raise him with his own wounds healed? Is he to wear the marks of his execution forever? Do Jesus or his disciples have to be reminded of that terrible experience?

When He appeared to the disciples, they had the same error the watchtower has, and thought He was a ghost/spirit, but Jesus set them straight, by saying a spirit has no flesh and bones, as they could SEE HE HAD...

The watchtower ignores the words of Jesus that He rose bodily and NOT as. Ghost.

I think you are ignoring the apostle Peter who said that Jesus was "put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit". (1 Peter 3:18)
Jesus was raised as a spirit...he was a spirit before coming to this earth and he returned to heaven in the same form. How does he become part of God again in heaven if he has a different body?
Creatures of flesh cannot enter heaven or stand in the presence of God. Spirit beings can.

Do you understand that there is no such thing as a "ghost" in the Bible? (i.e. meaning the spirit of a dead person) The Jews had no belief in ghosts, but were forbidden communication with "spirits". To the Jews, "spirits" were not the spirits of dead people (because the dead were in fact dead...not conscious. Eccl 9:5, 10) but demonic spirits could impersonate the dead, perpetuating the first lie that satan told in the garden of Eden...."you surely will not die". The Canaanites were heavily into spiritistic practices.

Spirit mediums and fortune tellers and those who inquired of the dead, were banned in Israel. What they practiced was an "abomination" to their God. He warned them....
Deuteronomy 18:9-12...
“When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer 11 or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, 12 for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you." (ESV)

So to preserve his apostles and disciples from the sin of communicating with spirits, the risen Jesus "appeared" in materialized form, as angels had done in the past. Spirit beings apparently have that ability. (as some did in the days of Noah, who even produced children)

They can eat and drink and accept the hospitality offered to them, as the three who visited Abraham at Mamre demonstrated. (Genesis 18) One acted as God's spokesman (more than likely the pre-human Jesus) and the other two went on to rescue Lot and his family from Sodom. These angels were spirits but appeared in human form.
Gabriel too appeared to both Daniel and Mary in human form.
I think you are ignoring a lot of scripture....

 

[Curtis]

If that was true, then please tell me why his disciples did not recognize him? He walked and talked with them but during the 40 days he remained on earth, but he did not stay with his apostles as he had done for three and a half years. It is said that he "appeared" to them....and on one occasion, when they recognized the way he broke the bread, he actually disappeared before their eyes. Then he reappeared out of nowhere.....You think a body of flesh can do that?

God can do anything He wants. The risen Jesus took back the glory and power of God He set aside to leave the form of God be born in the form of a man, Philippians 2:6-7, He can walk through walls - and did.

Just as His resurrected body bore the scars from crucifixion, His face, which was badly marred by the beatings they gave him that day, Isaiah 52:14, was also changed.

Mary didn’t recognize Him until He spoke and she recognized His voice, because it was the same body with the same vocal chords.

He didn’t stay just with the apostles - he appeared to 500 believers, too, for those forty days, and since Hebrews states that Jesus went to heaven and entered the temple there, (that the earthly temple is a copy of), He probably spent a lot of time in heaven with Yahweh also during those 40 days.

If he had those gruesome wounds, (he was tortured before his death, and pierced after it) don't you think they would have been mentioned all the times that he "appeared" to his apostles? Yet they were mentioned only twice, and only his hands and his side.

Why would they comment on them every time? There’s absolutely no reason to do that. You’re grasping at straws there.

I think you are ignoring the apostle Peter who said that Jesus was "put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit". (1 Peter 3:18)
Jesus was raised as a spirit...he was a spirit before coming to this earth and he returned to heaven in the same form. How does he become part of God again in heaven if he has a different body?
Creatures of flesh cannot enter heaven or stand in the presence of God. Spirit beings can.

Jesus sits at Yahweh's right hand - not in His lap. They’re both God but aren’t a three headed God as Watchtower so ignorantly say the trinity is. They are separate and co equal.

You can’t resurrect a spirit, because they can’t die. At death of the body the spirit leaves its home, and either goes to be with Jesus, 2 Corinthians 5, or to hell to await judgment.

He was made alive physically by the spirit. And BTW scripture says the Father raised Jesus, and says elsewhere that the Holy Spirit raised Jesus - and Jesus said before His crucifixion, that He would raise Himself. The trinity raised Jesus physically by the power of their Spirit.

And as I already said, scripture states that mortal flesh and BLOOD can’t enter heaven, however Jesus rose in an immortal flesh and BONE body - the same body only made immortal, which was s why He had the healed scars to show them to prove He was NOT a spirit.

 

[Aunty Jane]

@ Curtis.....you can believe whatever you wish.....one of us is grasping at straws and I don't think its me.....there is no trinity in the Bible.

If "the church" changed the very nature of God, and altered the relationship that Jesus has with his Father, then the majority who identify as Christians have been led to accept a blasphemous lie, planted by the devil to encourage people to break God's law. (Exodus 20:3; Matthew 7:21-23)

Can't say nobody told you....

 

[Cooper]

@ Curtis.....you can believe whatever you wish.....one of us is grasping at straws and I don't think its me.....there is no trinity in the Bible.

If "the church" changed the very nature of God, and altered the relationship that Jesus has with his Father, then the majority who identify as Christians have been led to accept a blasphemous lie, planted by the devil to encourage people to break God's law. (Exodus 20:3; Matthew 7:21-23)

Can't say nobody told you....

The Son is God on earth, God the Father is the Spirit, the Father is in Jesus, God the Holy Spirit is in heaven and on earth in Jesus. God is One. The synagogue of Satan composed of Satan's witnesses needs trampling under the feet of God and that will happen when Christ returns and casts Satan's minions into Hell.
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[Cooper]

Jehovah [YHWH] is the Father:

Isaiah 63:16. American Standard Version

16 For thou art our Father, though Abraham knoweth us not, and Israel doth not acknowledge us: thou, O Jehovah, art our Father; our Redeemer from everlasting is thy name.

Is. 64:8, ASV

8: But now, O Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Even many personal names of Israelites in the Bible actually said "Jehovah is the Father": "Abijah,' `Abiah,' `Joab,' etc. - but they never said anything remotely like `Jehovah is the Son' [or the Messiah, the Firstborn, etc.]!) - Deut. 32:6 ASV; Ps. 89:26, 27 (compare Heb. 1:5 and Ps. 2:7 ASV); Jer. 31:7, 9 ASV.

Jesus is the Potter, the Father.
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[Scott Downey]

1 Timothy 3, the mystery of the faith, and the mystery of God expressed by the Trinity, v16.

God the Father, God manifested in the flesh as the Son who was believed on in the world, God justified in the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, let God be true and everyman a liar.

Romans 3:4
Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: “That You may be justified in Your words, And may overcome when You are judged.”

1 Timothy 3
8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, 9 holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience.

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:

God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.

 

[David H.]

The Bible says God's Church is not divided, so the only logical conclusion to reach is that what you think is His Church is really just a collection of man-made churches that are all teaching doctrines that aren't supported by the Bible.

As it stands, trinitarians haven't even been able to agree with each other on how the trinity operates for centuries, even though they hilariously insist the doctrine is biblical. Is God really behind such confusion? The only answer any honest person can reach is an emphatic "no", because God is not the author of confusion. Satan however, is.

False, Satan Planted tares amongst the wheat, and God knew this would occur, and the reason for this is that those who were approved could may be made manifest among us. (1 Corinthians 11:19) The deity of Christ is a test of the Spirits by which determine who is of the Spirit of Truth andof the spirit of error.