Understanding the Trinity.

[tigger 2]

Exodus 3:14
And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”

Christ is also the same I AM that I AM.
Notice here with Judas and that rabble went to arrest HIM, what happened because He is God the SON.

....

The Gospel writers have clearly shown Jesus applying the term ego eimi to himself and meaning “I am the Christ.” Mark 13:6 shows Jesus saying, “I am he [literally just ego eimi alone, ‘I AM’]” - NEB. The parallel account at Luke 21:8 agrees. But the other parallel account by Matthew shows what Jesus actually meant by the “absolute” ego eimi in those parallel accounts of Mark and Luke: “I am the Messiah” - Matt. 24:5 - NEB.

Jesus saying ego eimi convinced some of the Jews that he was claiming to be the Messiah (so they attempted to stone him to death on the spot). Later, Jesus was taken before the high priest and all the chief priests and questioned by them (Matt. 26:59-66; Mk 14:53-64; Luke 22:66-71).

Now if Jesus had really previously claimed to be God by saying ego eimi (or if the Jews had even thought he might have been making such a claim by saying those words), what questions would they have asked him now that they had him up before the highest Jewish court? Would they have asked “Are you the Christ?”? (Remember the Christ was not believed by the Jews to actually be God himself. - NIVSB f.n. for Mark 14:61.) Wouldn’t they have concentrated on “Do you claim to be God?”?

But what did they actually ask Jesus at this most important Jewish trial where the Jews were actually seeking to find a reason, no matter how false, to kill him? Even though they searched for any and all accusers, even false accusers (Matt. 26 59-60), to give them a reason to kill Jesus, no one accused him of claiming to be God!

“Now the chief priests and the whole Council kept trying to obtain false testimony against Jesus in order that they might put him to death; .... And the high priest said to him, ‘I adjure you by the living God, that you tell us whether you are the Christ, the Son of God.’” - Matt. 26:59, 63, NASB.

C’mon, be honest now! Could any honest person reasonably conclude that Jesus had claimed to be God at John 8:58 and that the deciding question at the Jews’ trial of Jesus would then be “are you the Christ?”

There is absolutely no suggestion that the Jews thought Jesus was calling himself God here! They asked no questions concerning such a thing. This is absolutely impossible if there could have been even a possibility that ego eimi at John 8:58 could mean the speaker was claiming to be God! Remember, this high court was looking for any reason to have Jesus killed!

[Also examine John's own statement about Jesus: "30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples. 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God [not that he is God or equal to God] ...." John 20:30-31.]

But if his statement at John 8:58 could mean “I am the Christ,” what would these priests and chief priests have asked him? Just exactly what they did ask him: “Are you the Christ, the Son of God?”

Furthermore, notice the reaction when Jesus admitted to being the Messiah: Matt. 26:65 - 68!

 

[tigger 2]

In its commentary to Exodus 3:14, the JPS Tanakh, Jewish Study Bible, Oxford Edition states:

"God's proper name disclosed in the next verse is YHVH (spelled yod-heh-vav-heh. In Heb., in ancient times, the "vav" was pronounced "w"). But here God first tells Moses its meaning; ehyeh-asher-ehyeh, probably best translated as "I will be what I will be" meaning: "My nature will become evident from my actions."


Notice how ehyeh was translated at Ex. 3:14 in the following mostly trinitarian-translated Bibles: Moffatt’s translation - “I WILL BE”; Byington’s - “I WILL BE”; Rotherham’s - “I WILL BECOME”; Concordant Literal Version - “I-SHALL-COME-TO-BE”; Julia Smith’s - “I SHALL BE”; Leeser’s - “I WILL BE”; New World Translation - “I SHALL PROVE TO BE.”

In addition are the following alternate readings in footnotes: American Standard Version - “I WILL BE”; NIV Study Bible - “I WILL BE”; Revised Standard Version - “I WILL BE”; New Revised Standard Version - “I WILL BE”; New English Bible - “I WILL BE”; Revised English Bible - “I WILL BE”; Living Bible - “I WILL BE”; Good News Bible - “I WILL BE”; English Standard Version - "I WILL BE".

And even one of the earliest English translations renders it:

14 God saide vnto Moses: I wyl be what I wyll be. And he sayde: Thus shalt thou saye vnto ye children of Israel: I wyl be hath sent me vnto you. - Miles Coverdale Bible (1535).

Notice too what the Encyclopedia Britannica had to say on this subject:

“The writer of Exodus 3:14-15 ... explains it [the meaning of God’s name] by the phrase EHYEH asher EHYEH (Ex. iii., 14); this can be translated ‘I am that I am’ or more exactly ‘I am wont to be that which I am wont to be’ or ‘I will be that which I will be.’” - p. 995, 14th ed., v. 12.

And among the most important of the early translations of the Hebrew Bible are the Greek versions of the Jewish Aquila and Theodotion in the second century A.D. [100’s]

“The versions of Aquila and Theodotion have ehyeh asher ehyeh and the ehyeh of 3:14b rendered into Greek as ‘esomai hos esomai’ and ’esomai’ respectively, which in turn translate as ‘I will be who I will be’ and ‘I will be’.” - Exodus 3:14 in Early Jewish and Christian Translations | Exodus 3:14 (exodus-314.com)

A study of all the other uses of ehyeh in Moses' writings are translated "I will be."

Further examination cements the truth that “I Am” at John 8:58 (or anywhere else) has nothing to do with Exodus 3:14, and does not constitute a name for God.

 

[Wrangler]

Notice too what the Encyclopedia Britannica had to say on this subject:

“The writer of Exodus 3:14-15 ... explains it [the meaning of God’s name] by the phrase EHYEH asher EHYEH (Ex. iii., 14); this can be translated ‘I am that I am’ or more exactly ‘I am wont to be that which I am wont to be’ or ‘I will be that which I will be.’” - p. 995, 14th ed., v. 12.

I just read the NSRV Cultural Bible Article on this. It says many things included the expression means ‘one who causes others to come into being.’ In other words, the Creator.

Before giving his name, YHWH, he tells Moses what action he takes, what he does. Fascinating.

 

[Daniel Veler]

People who want to debate the trinity or in another name the Godhead. Have not fully understood the divine workings of the Father. If you come to understand how the trinity or better yet how the three dwell in us. Then you will understand how the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one. Christ never proclaimed himself as God but humbled himself under the authority of the Father. Christ said himself that the Father was in him and he was in the Father. He went on to tell us that he spoke only what the Father instructed him to say. We also know the Holy Spirit was in Christ. Therefore all three were present. The body of Christ, the Son which the Father and the Holly Spirt dwelled. Making them one.


No look at us in Christ. We receive the Holy Spirit within us. Christ said my Father and I will make our abode with you. Meaning they will be in the temple of our body. There fore we are one with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.


Now if you still don’t understand how the Three dwell in us! Then you’ll never understand how the Godhead are one.

 

[Scott Downey]

One supposed 'proof' JW's use against the Trinity is that Jesus Christ died, and they say, God can not die.
Well Christ took on flesh and blood body, like unto His brothers, Christ became like us. Otherwise He could not be our savior, one who can fully sympathize with our condition. An explanation of that is in Hebrews 2,

14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

 

[Pierac]

People who want to debate the trinity or in another name the Godhead. Have not fully understood the divine workings of the Father. If you come to understand how the trinity or better yet how the three dwell in us. Then you will understand how the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one. Christ never proclaimed himself as God but humbled himself under the authority of the Father. Christ said himself that the Father was in him and he was in the Father. He went on to tell us that he spoke only what the Father instructed him to say. We also know the Holy Spirit was in Christ. Therefore all three were present. The body of Christ, the Son which the Father and the Holly Spirt dwelled. Making them one.


No look at us in Christ. We receive the Holy Spirit within us. Christ said my Father and I will make our abode with you. Meaning they will be in the temple of our body. There fore we are one with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.


Now if you still don’t understand how the Three dwell in us! Then you’ll never understand how the Godhead are one.

Well spoken... of the traditions of men! Nothing you said can be found in scripture about the Godhead... but only what you hear from your pastor on Sunday morning!

Even Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to His followers that was given unto Him to complete his mission... does that now make them GOD too according to your post/view? That's where we get the term Baptized by the Holy Spirit.

John 20:21 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them,"Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."

Jesus never forgave sins before He was anointed with God's Spirit. And now the Apostles have the ability to forgive sins, once again only after Jesus gave/anointed them with the Holy Spirit that he was given. The Apostles are now Agents of Jesus the Christ just as Jesus is the agent of the one true God! Now they all "have authority on earth to forgive sins". How? Because as the Father has sent Me, I also send you

What your missing is both Jesus and the apostles were both given what they did not originally possess! Thus why Jesus has a GOD!

Joh 20:17 Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

John 8:40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

The apostles can now claim the same as Jesus in John 14:10 Why? Because just a few short chapters later in John 20:21... they now have the Spirit of the Father in them that doeth the works! The same Spirit that was given to Jesus... just before he could even perform a single
Miricale. That's why the Book of Mark starts at this point. Because Mark knew when it all began for Jesus... Mark knew when God came into Jesus... and it was at the start of his Gospel!

Paul

 

[Pierac]

@JohnPaul said: "he is not God himself but his Son"

He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. (Deuteronomy 32:4)

Spoken by Moses of Yahweh (Jehovah)

And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. (1 Corinthians 10:4)

Spoken of By Paul of that same Rock Moses was referring to....

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)

Jesus stating He is the Truth....

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. (John 16:13)

Has The Holy Spirit spoken to you the Truth of who Jesus is, and How Jesus is the Rock of our salvation....

O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation. (Psalm 95:1)

Again... Talking about what daddy told you in your Church... What do you know of Christ the “rock”

“Believers in the personal preexistence of Christ often appeal to the words of the apostle Paul in I Cor 10:4 where he says of the Israelites in the wilderness, that they all drank "the same spiritual drink for they drank of that spiritual rock that followed them; and that rock was Christ."

It is argued from this that Christ Himself personally accompanied the people of Israel as they journeyed through the wilderness to the promised land. The verse is often tied in with several Old Testament texts which describe Yahweh as a Rock (Deut 32:4; Ps 18:2,31). Since Yahweh is the rock, and Christ is also the rock who accompanied Israel, Christ must therefore be Yahweh, it is believed.

This interpretation, common though it is, suffers from a number of serious defects. The first of these concerns the meaning of the term "Christ". Too often we use it simply as a proper name for Jesus as if it were His surname. "Christos" is the Greek form of the Hebrew word "Messiah", meaning "the anointed one". It was a title given to the Kings of Israel. David was a "messiah" and was a type, or forerunner, of the one who would deliver the people of Israel and establish the Kingdom of God. the coming of the Messiah is a common theme of OT prophecy. He was to be the "seed of Abraham" Gen 3:15; Gal 3:8,16, "the seed of Judah" Gen49:10; I Chron. 5:2, and the "seed of David" II Sam &:12~14; Isa 11:1,10;Rom.1:3;II Tim2:8. "Seed" in all these scriptures means "descendant" This points to the fact that the Messiah was prophesied to arise from the human race.

Nothing in the OT suggests that the promised seed was already in existence in another form. For Paul to have taught that the Messiah was personally present with Israel would have been a staggering contradiction of the words of the prophets. The second major objection to this theory is the fact that God used angels to minister to Israel. The NT declares in three places that the law was given by angels, Acts7:38,53, Gal 3:9 & Heb2:2. In each of these passages the angelic giving of the Law forms an important part of the debate. Study each in its context with care and you will see that the common theme is the superiority of the Gospel to the Law. The Law was given only by angels but the Gospel was brought by the Son of God and is therefore vastly superior to it. Christ could not have had any part, therefore, either in giving the Law to Israel, or in ministering to the Israelites in the wilderness.

Since the Messiah could not have been present personally in the wilderness, Paul's statement must mean that the Rock represented or typified Christ in some way. It is not uncommon for Scripture to use the verb "to be" in a representational sense. Jesus said "I am the Door" Jn 10:7, "I am the true Vine" Jn 15:1. In the intuition of the Lord's supper he said that the bread "is my body" and the cup "is my blood" I Cor11:24,25, clearly meant that they symbolized his broken body and shed blood.

This interpretation is strengthened by a close study of the whole passage from verse 1 to verse 11 of 1 Corinthians 10. Twice Paul states that the experiences of Israel were examples for us (vv.6,11). The Greek word used here actually means "types". The passing of the Israelites through the cloud and through the Red Sea was a type of Christian baptism. They were baptized "into Moses" (v. 2, NASB) as we are baptized "into Christ" (Rom. 6:3; 1 Cor. 12:13; Gal. 3:27). Verses 3 and 4 continue the typological parallel by referring to the incidents of the giving of the manna in Exodus 16, and the incidents at Rephidim and Kadesh when God miraculously supplied water out of a rock (Ex. 17:1-7; Num. 20: 1-13). The "spiritual" food mentioned in verse 3 is clearly the manna miraculously given daily to Israel over a period of 40 years. The giving of the manna is recorded in Exodus 16 and forms the background to John 6.

There are two incidents involving a rock recorded during the wilderness wanderings of the Israelites and it is important to notice the difference between them.

The first incident occurred just after the miraculous giving of the manna. Israel arrived at Rephidim (Ex. 17:1) and immediately began to complain about lack of water, whereupon God commanded Moses to strike the rock. Water gushed out and the people's thirst was satisfied. The striking of the rock typifies the fact that Christ our Rock was smitten for us. The miraculous giving of the water typifies the giving of the Holy Spirit, the water of Life (John 7:37-39).

The second incident occurred toward the end of the wandering in the wilderness. Again, Israel complained for lack of water and again God provided for their needs. This time, however, he clearly instructed Moses to speak to the rock, but in his anger Moses disobeyed and struck the rock twice (Num. 20: 1-12). In smiting the rock instead of speaking to it Moses was guilty of destroying the type. The rock in Exodus 17 typified Christ in the flesh, smitten to give to us the water of life while the rock in Numbers 20 typified Christ our High Priest, not to be smitten twice (cp. Heb. 6:6), but only to be spoken to supply the water of life. The first incident occurred at the beginning of the wanderings, the second at the end; both incidents thus form a parable of Christ's continuous presence with his people during their "wilderness wanderings." The two incidents we have looked at took place in entirely different locations and there is a different Hebrew word for "rock" used in each place. In Exodus 17 the word is tsur and in Numbers 20 it is sela. So what does Paul mean when he states that "they drank of that spiritual rock which followed them"?

Obviously, a literal rock did not accompany Israel through the wilderness and many feel that this is proof that Christ himself went with them. The answer is that Paul is using the language of Christian experience and reading it back into the Old Testament type. This is shown clearly by his reference to baptism in verses 1 and 2. The Israelites were not literally "baptized". In fact, we are told that the water did not come near them; they walked dryshod through the Red Sea. But their experience is a close enough parallel for Paul to say they were baptized "into Moses". Likewise the rock did not literally follow them. It was simply a type of Christ accompanying us through life.

Can't believe you posted this childish stuff!!! Really, Jesus/God was a Rock in the OT? So you go from a spiritual being (God) and creator of all... to becoming a part of His creation (Jesus)... but first Jesus was Rock before becoming a man?

I mean... you can't make this crap up... Yet you went there... LOL

Paul

 

[Daniel Veler]

Well spoken... of the traditions of men! Nothing you said can be found in scripture about the Godhead... but only what you hear from your pastor on Sunday morning!

Even Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to His followers that was given unto Him to complete his mission... does that now make them GOD too according to your post/view? That's where we get the term Baptized by the Holy Spirit.

John 20:21 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them,"Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."

Jesus never forgave sins before He was anointed with God's Spirit. And now the Apostles have the ability to forgive sins, once again only after Jesus gave/anointed them with the Holy Spirit that he was given. The Apostles are now Agents of Jesus the Christ just as Jesus is the agent of the one true God! Now they all "have authority on earth to forgive sins". How? Because as the Father has sent Me, I also send you

What your missing is both Jesus and the apostles were both given what they did not originally possess! Thus why Jesus has a GOD!

Joh 20:17 Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

John 8:40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

The apostles can now claim the same as Jesus in John 14:10 Why? Because just a few short chapters later in John 20:21... they now have the Spirit of the Father in them that doeth the works! The same Spirit that was given to Jesus... just before he could even perform a single
Miricale. That's why the Book of Mark starts at this point. Because Mark knew when it all began for Jesus... Mark knew when God came into Jesus... and it was at the start of his Gospel!

Paul

You have gag on two words but you ignored the truth of the content.

 

[Pierac]

You have gag on two words but you ignored the truth of the content.

Ok... Let's look at the truth... Let's see what scriptures says... and what you want it to say...

Acts 2:22 – "Jesus the Nazorean was a MAN commended to you by God with mighty deeds, wonders, and signs, which God worked through him in your midst."

Now you tell me which part of this verse is hard to understand. What is Jesus according to Peter?

1. A Godman
2. A God
3. A man

If you chose answer 3, you are correct! If you chose any other answer, you need to read it again. Well, Peter probably meant something else. What? I don’t know. That must be the only verse in the New Testament that says that. Not quite.

Acts 10:40 – This MAN God raised on the third day."
It doesn’t get any simpler than this. There is no way to misunderstand this verse. Okay, let’s see if your catching on.

1. Who did God raise? That’s right, this MAN!
2. Who raised this MAN? Bingo, God!

Acts 17:31 – "God has overlooked the times of ignorance, but now He demands that all people everywhere repent because He has established a day on which He will judge the world with justice through a MAN He has appointed, and He has provided confirmation for all by raising him from the dead.

1. Whom Did God appoint? A MAN.
2. Who appointed this MAN? God.

Now you’re getting the hang of it.

1 Timothy 2:5 – "For there is one God and one mediator also between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus."

1. Who is the mediator? The MAN Christ Jesus.

2. Who is he the mediator between? God and men.

He is not the mediator between himself and men, but between God and men. You can see that Jesus is not considered in the term "God."

1 Corinthians 15: 21 –"For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man"

So wait, I think you have got it now. He is a MAN anointed by God. Yessirree Bob! Hallelujah! So that’s what Peter was saying in Acts.

Acts 10:38 – "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the holy Spirit and power.

1.Who did God anoint? Jesus.

2.Who anointed Jesus? God.

It’s easy once you get the hang of it. The problem with Trinitarians is that in order to substantiate the Trinity, they have to read a passage like this and then say that Jesus is God. You can read, can’t you? It doesn’t say that Jesus is God. But you have to stick to it or your whole doctrine is ruined. So basically they end up with the following interpretation of such a simple verse

"How God anointed God with God."

Is that what you get out of it? As Isaiah pointed out earlier, the Messiah is a man anointed by YHWH. He is supposed to be a prophet from among their own kinsmen. The following is a Messianic prophecy spoken by none other than Moses.

Deuteronomy 18:18 – "And the LORD (YHWH) said to me, I will raise up for you a prophet like you FROM AMONG YOUR OWN KINSMEN, and will put my words into his mouth; he shall tell them all that I command him."

Did the Apostles know that Jesus was a MAN from among their own kinsmen? Of course they did. They quoted this verse in reference to Jesus in Acts.

Acts 3:20-22 – "And that the Lord may grant you times of refreshment and send you the Messiah already appointed for you…For Moses said; A prophet like me will the Lord (YHWH), your God raise up for you FROM AMONG YOUR OWN KINSMEN."

Wow! They did know! Of course they knew. This is what the Old Testament predicted of the Christ. Let's now look at the famous suffering servant of Isaiah 53 states:

Isaiah 53:3 – "He was spurned and avoided by men, a MAN of suffering."

The Apostle Matthew quotes Isaiah 53 in Matthew 8:17. Peter quotes Isaiah 53 in 1 Peter 2:22-24. Isaiah 53 is quoted all over the place in the New Testament by all the Apostles. Of course they knew.

Now other things are starting to make sense. Trinitarians claim that since Jesus is fully God at all times, that he is omniscient. That’s a big word. It means all knowing. It means Jesus knows everything about everything. But that’s not what these simple verses say. Revelation’s opening verse states;

Rev. 1:1 – "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him."

1.Whom did God give a revelation to? Jesus.

2.Who gave Jesus a revelation? God.

3.Did Jesus know everything? Nope.

4.Does it make sense to you that God would have to give himself a revelation? Nope.

Mark 13:32 – "But of that hour, no one knows, neither the angels in heaven, NOR THE SON, but only the Father."

Do I need to say anything about the verse above? Does Jesus know the hour? Nope. Then he is not omniscient.

Only two more easy verses. This is Jesus himself speaking:

John 17:3 – "Now this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ."

1.Who does Jesus consider the first "you" to be? The ONLY true God.

2.Does Jesus think that he himself is that "you"? Not according to this verse.

3.Who sent Jesus? The only true God.

If Jesus did not consider himself to be God, why should we? Jesus always pointed us to the one who is greater than he, The God of Abraham. Here is probably the simplest verse in the whole Bible on this matter.

Mark 10:18 – "Jesus answered him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone."

If you have trouble with this one, I do not think there is much else I can say. Does this sound to you like Jesus believes himself to be God?

So... Did you pass the biblical test???
I think not!
Paul

 

[Daniel Veler]

Ok... Let's look at the truth... Let's see what scriptures says... and what you want it to say...

Acts 2:22 – "Jesus the Nazorean was a MAN commended to you by God with mighty deeds, wonders, and signs, which God worked through him in your midst."

Now you tell me which part of this verse is hard to understand. What is Jesus according to Peter?

1. A Godman
2. A God
3. A man

If you chose answer c, you are correct! If you chose any other answer, you need to read it again. Well, Peter probably meant something else. What? I don’t know. That must be the only verse in the New Testament that says that. Not quite.

Acts 10:40 – This MAN God raised on the third day."
It doesn’t get any simpler than this. There is no way to misunderstand this verse. Okay, let’s see if your catching on.

1. Who did God raise? That’s right, this MAN!
2. Who raised this MAN? Bingo, God!

Acts 17:31 – "God has overlooked the times of ignorance, but now He demands that all people everywhere repent because He has established a day on which He will judge the world with justice through a MAN He has appointed, and He has provided confirmation for all by raising him from the dead.

1. Whom Did God appoint? A MAN.
2. Who appointed this MAN? God.

Now you’re getting the hang of it.

1 Timothy 2:5 – "For there is one God and one mediator also between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus."

1. Who is the mediator? The MAN Christ Jesus.

2. Who is he the mediator between? God and men.

He is not the mediator between himself and men, but between God and men. You can see that Jesus is not considered in the term "God."

1 Corinthians 15: 21 –"For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man"

So wait, I think you have got it now. He is a MAN anointed by God. Yessirree Bob! Hallelujah! So that’s what Peter was saying in Acts.

Acts 10:38 – "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the holy Spirit and power.

1.Who did God anoint? Jesus.

2.Who anointed Jesus? God.

It’s easy once you get the hang of it. The problem with Trinitarians is that in order to substantiate the Trinity, they have to read a passage like this and then say that Jesus is God. You can read, can’t you? It doesn’t say that Jesus is God. But you have to stick to it or your whole doctrine is ruined. So basically they end up with the following interpretation of such a simple verse

"How God anointed God with God."

Is that what you get out of it? As Isaiah pointed out earlier, the Messiah is a man anointed by YHWH. He is supposed to be a prophet from among their own kinsmen. The following is a Messianic prophecy spoken by none other than Moses.

Deuteronomy 18:18 – "And the LORD (YHWH) said to me, I will raise up for you a prophet like you FROM AMONG YOUR OWN KINSMEN, and will put my words into his mouth; he shall tell them all that I command him."

Did the Apostles know that Jesus was a MAN from among their own kinsmen? Of course they did. They quoted this verse in reference to Jesus in Acts.

Acts 3:20-22 – "And that the Lord may grant you times of refreshment and send you the Messiah already appointed for you…For Moses said; A prophet like me will the Lord (YHWH), your God raise up for you FROM AMONG YOUR OWN KINSMEN."

Wow! They did know! Of course they knew. This is what the Old Testament predicted of the Christ. Let's now look at the famous suffering servant of Isaiah 53 states:

Isaiah 53:3 – "He was spurned and avoided by men, a MAN of suffering."

The Apostle Matthew quotes Isaiah 53 in Matthew 8:17. Peter quotes Isaiah 53 in 1 Peter 2:22-24. Isaiah 53 is quoted all over the place in the New Testament by all the Apostles. Of course they knew.

Now other things are starting to make sense. Trinitarians claim that since Jesus is fully God at all times, that he is omniscient. That’s a big word. It means all knowing. It means Jesus knows everything about everything. But that’s not what these simple verses say. Revelation’s opening verse states;

Rev. 1:1 – "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him."

1.Whom did God give a revelation to? Jesus.

2.Who gave Jesus a revelation? God.

3.Did Jesus know everything? Nope.

4.Does it make sense to you that God would have to give himself a revelation? Nope.

Mark 13:32 – "But of that hour, no one knows, neither the angels in heaven, NOR THE SON, but only the Father."

Do I need to say anything about the verse above? Does Jesus know the hour? Nope. Then he is not omniscient.

Only two more easy verses. This is Jesus himself speaking:

John 17:3 – "Now this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ."

1.Who does Jesus consider the first "you" to be? The ONLY true God.

2.Does Jesus think that he himself is that "you"? Not according to this verse.

3.Who sent Jesus? The only true God.

If Jesus did not consider himself to be God, why should we? Jesus always pointed us to the one who is greater than he, The God of Abraham. Here is probably the simplest verse in the whole Bible on this matter.

Mark 10:18 – "Jesus answered him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone."

If you have trouble with this one, I do not think there is much else I can say. Does this sound to you like Jesus believes himself to be God?

So... Did you pass the biblical test???
I think not!
Paul

You have thrown out a lot of things here but you still haven’t understood.

 

[Pierac]

You have thrown out a lot of things here but you still haven’t understood.

I'm guessing you failed the biblical test in that post? Thus your complete silence on a single question, and my answers to those same questions! So easy to pop off opinions... Never having to use scripture, or study anything.... You get to just post your feelings.... It's Ok... others will read, and they will begin to see that which you do not! You think that post was only for you.... Silly child!

Paul

 

[Daniel Veler]

I'm guessing you failed the biblical test in that post? Thus your complete silence on a single question, and my answers to those same questions! So easy to pop off opinions... Never having to use scripture, or study anything.... You get to just post your feelings.... It's Ok... others will read, and they will begin to see that which you do not! You think that post was only for you.... Silly child!

Paul

Let’s let judgment be up to the Lord.

 

[Pierac]

Let’s let judgment be up to the Lord.

Lord or God Head???

 

[Keiw]

At least I have the knowledge for eternal life... Do you know the only true God who sent Jesus?

Joh 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You (God) have sent.

The God that Jesus heard from...?
John 8:40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.

Do you know the God of John 17:3 whom gave Jesus His Revelation? Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him

Do you believe Peter at Pentecost when he taught... Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

No!!! These truths are foreign to you... as you will not find them taught in your Church!

Jesus called the Father= one who sent him-THE ONLY TRUE GOD. Few will listen to Jesus.

 

[Jim B]

Jesus called the Father= one who sent him-THE ONLY TRUE GOD. Few will listen to Jesus.

Jeus said "The Father and I are one." John 10:30 If they won't listen to Jesus then they're not listening to God.

 

[Scott Downey]

Jeus said "The Father and I are one." John 10:30 If they won't listen to Jesus then they're not listening to God.

The context clearly shows Christ and the Father are one, even the Jews took up stones to kill Christ as they knew what He said made himself God.
Those who are opposed to Christ being God, might also want to kill Christ too, as they would agree with the Jews that it was a blasphemy.

Jesus clearly says those who do not believe what He says, are not of His sheep, meaning they are not going to be saved. They do not believe, Christ, who said He and God are ONE.

22 And it was the feast of the dedication at Jerusalem: 23 it was winter; and Jesus was walking in the temple in Solomon's porch.

24 The Jews therefore came round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou hold us in suspense? If thou art the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believe not: the works that I do in my Father's name, these bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.

29 My Father, who hath given [them] unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father's hand.

30 I and the Father are one.

31 The Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from the Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken), 36 say ye of him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am [the] Son of God?

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do them, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.

39 They sought again to take him: and he went forth out of their hand.

 

[Pierac]

Jeus said "The Father and I are one." John 10:30 If they won't listen to Jesus then they're not listening to God.

Grk "I and the Father." Your Bible has reversed the order to reflect an English style.

The questions is... One what?
"This is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent ... I (Jesus) have manifested thy name unto (the disciples) ... Holy Father, keep in thy name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one" (John 17:3,6,11).

 

[tigger 2]

Jeus said "The Father and I are one." John 10:30 If they won't listen to Jesus then they're not listening to God.

....................................
When Bible writers write that a number of persons are “one,” they consistently mean it in a figurative sense.

For example, Paul includes himself and Apollos in a “oneness”: “He that plants [Paul] and he that waters [Apollos] are one” - 1 Cor. 3:6, 8. Obviously Paul does not consider himself literally one person (or any other literal “one”) with other persons. However, he, as many other Bible writers do, considers himself as “one” with others in a figurative sense.

Yes, Bible writers consistently described groups of individuals as “one” figuratively in the sense of their being “united in will and purpose.” Here’s how one respected trinitarian reference book states it:

“‘One’ also expresses the unity between Christ and the Father (Jn 10:30), the union between believers and the Godhead, and the unity which exists among Christians (Jn 17:21; Gal. 3:28). ‘One’ further expresses singleness of purpose” - p. 844, New Bible Dictionary, (2nd ed.), 1982, Tyndale House Publ.

However, since we are concerned with a scripture written by John, we need to be assured that John (and even more specifically that Jesus as quoted by John) uses this figurative sense of “one” for groups of individuals.

Therefore, let’s examine John 17:22. “The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them; that they may be one, just as we are one.” - NASB. (Compare John 17:11. - A footnote for John 17:11 in the trinitarian The NIV Study Bible, Zondervan, 1985 says: “the unity is to be like that between the Father and the Son.”)

Not only is it obvious that these Christians are not equally Christ with Jesus, nor equally God with the Father, nor are they all one person, but that they are all figuratively united in “will” and “purpose” with God. That is, they agree with and carry out the Father's will.

Notice that Jesus clearly defines his being “one” with his Father as being in the very same sense that he wants certain Christians to be “one”: “just as we are one” (NASB). There can be no doubt, then, that John 10:30 does not mean Jesus and the Father are equally God, but that, just as certain Christians were “one” in will and purpose so “the Father and I are one [in will and purpose].”

 

[Jim B]

....................................
When Bible writers write that a number of persons are “one,” they consistently mean it in a figurative sense.

For example, Paul includes himself and Apollos in a “oneness”: “He that plants [Paul] and he that waters [Apollos] are one” - 1 Cor. 3:6, 8. Obviously Paul does not consider himself literally one person (or any other literal “one”) with other persons. However, he, as many other Bible writers do, considers himself as “one” with others in a figurative sense.

Yes, Bible writers consistently described groups of individuals as “one” figuratively in the sense of their being “united in will and purpose.” Here’s how one respected trinitarian reference book states it:

“‘One’ also expresses the unity between Christ and the Father (Jn 10:30), the union between believers and the Godhead, and the unity which exists among Christians (Jn 17:21; Gal. 3:28). ‘One’ further expresses singleness of purpose” - p. 844, New Bible Dictionary, (2nd ed.), 1982, Tyndale House Publ.

However, since we are concerned with a scripture written by John, we need to be assured that John (and even more specifically that Jesus as quoted by John) uses this figurative sense of “one” for groups of individuals.

Therefore, let’s examine John 17:22. “The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them; that they may be one, just as we are one.” - NASB. (Compare John 17:11. - A footnote for John 17:11 in the trinitarian The NIV Study Bible, Zondervan, 1985 says: “the unity is to be like that between the Father and the Son.”)

Not only is it obvious that these Christians are not equally Christ with Jesus, nor equally God with the Father, nor are they all one person, but that they are all figuratively united in “will” and “purpose” with God. That is, they agree with and carry out the Father's will.

Notice that Jesus clearly defines his being “one” with his Father as being in the very same sense that he wants certain Christians to be “one”: “just as we are one” (NASB). There can be no doubt, then, that John 10:30 does not mean Jesus and the Father are equally God, but that, just as certain Christians were “one” in will and purpose so “the Father and I are one [in will and purpose].”

"So you too consider yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus." Romans 6:11 In Christ Jesus!

"For the payoff of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23 In Christ Jesus!

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Romans 8:1 In Christ Jesus!

"But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is your life because of righteousness." Romans 8:10 In Christ Jesus!

"so we who are many are one body in Christ, and individually we are members who belong to one another." Romans 12:5 In Christ Jesus!

 

[Keiw]

Jeus said "The Father and I are one." John 10:30 If they won't listen to Jesus then they're not listening to God.

They are one in purpose, the living to do his Fatherswill-John 5:30. It also said the followers would be one with them. living to do Jesus Fatherswill-Matt 7:21
He also said-The Father is greater than i.