Understanding without revelation

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shilohsfoal

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Ezekiel 43:7 And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, [neither] they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.




Is it possible to understand when this takes place without revelation?
Is there anyone on this board beside myself who understand when it takes place with revelation?
 

shilohsfoal

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When do you "understand" this taking place?

Revelation tells us this shall take place after New Jerusalem has decended from heaven.





Revelation 21;1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. [sup]2 [/sup]Then I, John,[sup][a][/sup] saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. [sup]3 [/sup]And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.


Other things which Ezekiel wrote about are also revealed in revelation as well.


[sup]Ezekiel 47[/sup]The man brought me back to the entrance to the temple, and I saw water coming out from under the threshold of the temple toward the east (for the temple faced east). The water was coming down from under the south side of the temple, south of the altar. [sup]2[/sup] He then brought me out through the north gate and led me around the outside to the outer gate facing east, and the water was trickling from the south side.
[sup]3[/sup] As the man went eastward with a measuring line in his hand, he measured off a thousand cubits[sup][a][/sup] and then led me through water that was ankle-deep. [sup]4[/sup] He measured off another thousand cubits and led me through water that was knee-deep. He measured off another thousand and led me through water that was up to the waist. [sup]5[/sup] He measured off another thousand, but now it was a river that I could not cross, because the water had risen and was deep enough to swim in—a river that no one could cross. [sup]6[/sup] He asked me, “Son of man, do you see this?”
Then he led me back to the bank of the river. [sup]7[/sup] When I arrived there, I saw a great number of trees on each side of the river. [sup]8[/sup] He said to me, “This water flows toward the eastern region and goes down into the Arabah,[sup][b][/sup] where it enters the Dead Sea. When it empties into the sea, the salty water there becomes fresh. [sup]9[/sup] Swarms of living creatures will live wherever the river flows. There will be large numbers of fish, because this water flows there and makes the salt water fresh; so where the river flows everything will live. [sup]10[/sup] Fishermen will stand along the shore; from En Gedi to En Eglaim there will be places for spreading nets. The fish will be of many kinds—like the fish of the Mediterranean Sea. [sup]11[/sup] But the swamps and marshes will not become fresh; they will be left for salt. [sup]12[/sup] Fruit trees of all kinds will grow on both banks of the river. Their leaves will not wither, nor will their fruit fail. Every month they will bear fruit, because the water from the sanctuary flows to them. Their fruit will serve for food and their leaves for healing.”
The same river Ezekiel saw coming from the temple is the same river coming from the throne of God in revelation.
Revelation 22;1
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
 

veteran

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The manifesting of the 'new heavens and a new earth' timing is mixed within Millennial timing in the Rev.21-22 Scripture. But the Ezekiel 40-47 Scripture is more chronological about the Millennial timing and then the new heavens and a new earth timing. By the end of Ezekiel 48, the new heavens and a new earth have a definite hint with the new name of the holy city given (Yahaveh Shamah in the Hebrew - 'God is there').


This specifically is in align with events in Ezekiel 40 thru 47...

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
(KJV)

One should ask theirself, how can those wicked "without" (outside) the gates of the holy city still exist when "the tree of life" is manifested on earth? Ezek.47 specifically tells us that will manifest on earth in the holy lands of promise. As long as the wicked still exist, the "lake of fire" of Rev.20 has not come yet. Thus not all the Rev.21-22 events are chronological.
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, shilohsfoal.

Veteran is right, though. Compare the sizes of the cities, Yahuwh-shameh vs. Yerushalayim haChadashah:

Ezekiel 48:8-22
8 "Bordering the territory of Judah from east to west will be the portion you are to present as a special gift. It will be 25,000 cubits wide, and its length from east to west will equal one of the tribal portions; the sanctuary will be in the center of it.
9 "The special portion you are to offer to the Lord will be 25,000 cubits long and 10,000 cubits wide. 10 This will be the sacred portion for the priests. It will be 25,000 cubits long on the north side, 10,000 cubits wide on the west side, 10,000 cubits wide on the east side and 25,000 cubits long on the south side. In the center of it will be the sanctuary of the Lord. 11 This will be for the consecrated priests, the Zadokites, who were faithful in serving me and did not go astray as the Levites did when the Israelites went astray. 12 It will be a special gift to them from the sacred portion of the land, a most holy portion, bordering the territory of the Levites.
13 "Alongside the territory of the priests, the Levites will have an allotment 25,000 cubits long and 10,000 cubits wide. Its total length will be 25,000 cubits and its width 10,000 cubits. 14 They must not sell or exchange any of it. This is the best of the land and must not pass into other hands, because it is holy to the Lord.
15 "The remaining area, 5,000 cubits wide and 25,000 cubits long, will be for the common use of the city, for houses and for pastureland. The city will be in the center of it 16 and will have these measurements: the north side 4,500 cubits, the south side 4,500 cubits, the east side 4,500 cubits, and the west side 4,500 cubits. 17 The pastureland for the city will be 250 cubits on the north, 250 cubits on the south, 250 cubits on the east, and 250 cubits on the west. 18 What remains of the area, bordering on the sacred portion and running the length of it, will be 10,000 cubits on the east side and 10,000 cubits on the west side. Its produce will supply food for the workers of the city. 19 The workers from the city who farm it will come from all the tribes of Israel. 20 The entire portion will be a square, 25,000 cubits on each side. As a special gift you will set aside the sacred portion, along with the property of the city.
21 "What remains on both sides of the area formed by the sacred portion and the city property will belong to the prince. It will extend eastward from the 25,000 cubits of the sacred portion to the eastern border, and westward from the 25,000 cubits to the western border. Both these areas running the length of the tribal portions will belong to the prince, and the sacred portion with the temple sanctuary will be in the center of them. 22 So the property of the Levites and the property of the city will lie in the center of the area that belongs to the prince. The area belonging to the prince will lie between the border of Judah and the border of Benjamin.
NIV



Rev 21:15-21
15 The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls. 16 The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia in length, and as wide and high as it is long. 17 He measured its wall and it was 144 cubits thick, by man's measurement, which the angel was using. 18 The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. 19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth sardonyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass.
NIV


Now, a "cubit" is normally about 18 inches, but if it is a royal cubit as was used for the pyramids in Egypt, it would be between 21 and 22 inches. Thus, Yahuwh-shameh will be 4500 cubits x 18 in/cubit x 1 ft/12 in = 6750 ft or as long as 4500 cubits x 22 in/cubit x 1/ft/12 in = 8250 ft. Since a mile is 5280 feet, this distance would not even be 2 miles in length.
A "stadios" (plural "stadia"), coming from the Roman measurement of a "stadium," is at least 582 feet! Today, it is generally agreed that the "stadium" was probably similar to today's measurement of a furlong at 660 feet, based on Roman mile markers. At 12,000 furlongs (stadia) on a side, this means that each side of Yerushalayim haChadashah would be at least ...
12,000 stadia x 582 ft/stadios x 1 mi/5280 ft = 1322.727 miles long! And, it is probably more like 12,000 stadia x 660 ft/stadios x 1 mi/5280 ft = 1500 miles long!

They are NOT the same city. The temporary city, Yahuwh-shameh, is not much bigger than the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem and not as big as the modern, sprawled-out metropolis of Jerusalem. The permanent city, Yerushalayim haChadashah, is MUCH bigger - bigger than any city has EVER been! It will cover an arc of the New Earth's surface of 1500 mi/24902 mi x 360 degrees = 21.685 degrees! That means that the middle gate of one side of the city is not even in the same time zone as the middle gate of the other side of the city! (It stretches out even farther from corner to opposite corner. It also towers above the New Earth's surface just as high, 1500 miles! Mount Everest is less than 5.5 miles high at 29,028 feet!)

In my opinion, this fact alone should convince one that the Millennium is different than the eternal state, and that the Millennium - stretching out just a little longer than the lifespan of Adam (950 years) and Metushelach (Methusaleh, 962 years) - is merely the first stage of eternity, a time for correcting all of mankind's problems before eternity proper begins, a time for the judgments of the wise Yeshua` haMelekh (Jesus the King) to be given and enemies to be subdued, until finally the last enemy, death, is finally defeated.
 

veteran

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In my opinion, this fact alone should convince one that the Millennium is different than the eternal state, and that the Millennium - stretching out just a little longer than the lifespan of Adam (950 years) and Metushelach (Methusaleh, 962 years) - is merely the first stage of eternity, a time for correcting all of mankind's problems before eternity proper begins, a time for the judgments of the wise Yeshua` haMelekh (Jesus the King) to be given and enemies to be subdued, until finally the last enemy, death, is finally defeated.

My point exactly. Good post retroybyter.
 

jiggyfly

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I usually stay away from these topics because there is too much speculation and contention, but in this thread I see the use of sound logic and contextual scripture reference. This is a good thread and some great discussion. I have agree with Retroybyter and Veteran though.
 

shilohsfoal

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If it wasnt bad enough to believe God would dwell in a temple made with hands yall have to reject the temple Jesus built for him to dwell in.

Acts 7;48-49
Yet the most High dwells not in temples made with hands; as says the prophet,
Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will you build me? says the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

This is the temple of God.
Ephesians 2;
[sup]19 [/sup]Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [sup]20 [/sup]having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, [sup]21 [/sup]in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, [sup]22 [/sup]in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.


Acts 7;51

You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you do always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do you.
 

veteran

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If it wasnt bad enough to believe God would dwell in a temple made with hands yall have to reject the temple Jesus built for him to dwell in.

Acts 7;48-49
Yet the most High dwells not in temples made with hands; as says the prophet,
Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will you build me? says the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

This is the temple of God.
Ephesians 2;
[sup]19 [/sup]Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [sup]20 [/sup]having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, [sup]21 [/sup]in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, [sup]22 [/sup]in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.


Acts 7;51

You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you do always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do you.


None of those Scripture examples deny the coming of a literal Millennium temple for Christ's future thousand years reign with His elect.

Rev 7:13-17
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, "What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?"
14 And I said unto him, "Sir, thou knowest." And he said to me, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple: and He That sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb Which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."
(KJV)

Those events begin... with Christ's return and the manifesting of the temple written in Ezekiel 40-47.